romans8

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Everything posted by romans8

  1. Maybe this helps to explain what I said. https://www.thechurchnews.com/1998/1/3/23251257/adam-and-eve-had-to-transgress-barrier-between-eden-mortality The first commandment given to Adam and Eve was, "Be fruitful and multiply." (Moses 2:28; Gen. 1:28; see also Abr. 4:28.) "When Adam and Eve received that commandment, they were in a transitional state, no longer in the spirit world but with physical bodies not yet subject to death and not yet capable of procreation," said Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Quorum of the Twelve at the October 1993 general conference."They could not fulfill the Father's first commandment without transgressing the barrier between the bliss of the Garden of Eden and the terrible trials and wonderful opportunities of mortal life. In simple terms, they could not obey the first commandment until they disobeyed the second commandment. Thus, in the Fall, Adam and Eve are said to have received great blessings from God.
  2. I have never received a blessing from God for disobeying Him. I am not sure if I understand the Eden epoch question but let me try to explain with an example. Suppose my mom told me not to touch the stove or I would get burned by the heat. I understood what a stove, heat, and the concept of being burned was. The devil came to me and said, "Touch the stove and you will not get burned, but you will be smart like your mom because she knows about heat". I listen to the devil, touch the stove, and scream. Fortunately it is only a first-degree burn. But wow, I really did get a little bit of knowledge about heat like my mom has. But did mom say, "Great, now I will bless you with giving you some ice-cream because you know what being burned feels like"? No.
  3. From what I have read in LDS literature, Adam and Eve had to first disobey God's commandment so that they could receive a blessing in order to obey his other commandment.
  4. The hardest for me is obedience vs sin. The easiest is hope vs despair.
  5. Found this: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/new-testament-student-manual/revelation/chapter-54-revelation-4-11?lang=eng Elder Bruce R. McConkie stated, “No doubt they will be members of the Council of the Twelve or the First Presidency of the Church” (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 3:509).
  6. Thanks. I found some other info at https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/gs/hell?lang=eng
  7. Based on what I have read on the church's website, damnation is defined as The state of being stopped in one’s progress and denied access to the presence of God and His glory. Damnation exists in varying degrees. All who do not obtain the fulness of celestial exaltation will to some degree be limited in their progress and privileges, and they will be damned to that extent. In short, eternal life (exaltation, eternal increase) is the opposite of damnation. Regarding hell, I see that it too is equated to damnation: Second, it is the permanent location of those who are not redeemed by the Atonement of Jesus Christ. In this sense, hell is permanent. It is for those who are found “filthy still” (D&C 88:35, 102). This is the place where Satan, his angels, and the sons of perdition—those who have denied the Son after the Father has revealed Him—will dwell eternally (D&C 76:43–46). The scriptures sometimes refer to hell as outer darkness. Hell, for the filthy, also includes those who are not the sons of perdition (1 Nephi 15:33-35). It is the location for those who did not choose eternal life (2 Nephi 2:28-30). And now, my sons, I would that ye should look to the great Mediator, and hearken unto his great commandments; and be faithful unto his words, and choose eternal life, according to the will of his Holy Spirit; And not choose eternal death, according to the will of the flesh and the evil which is therein, which giveth the spirit of the devil power to captivate, to bring you down to hell, that he may reign over you in his own kingdom. Can one escape hell? Based on which of two ways hell is described, I would say no (1 Nephi 15:33-35; 2 Nephi 9:25; Alma 34:32-35).
  8. Regarding the quote "Salvation does not come from believing we don't need to change. It comes from knowing that, through the Atonement of Christ, we CAN change. And by His grace, we WILL change" Makes sense.
  9. What city of Salem was taken up and when?
  10. Where will I go after I die? has a definition for the Telestial kingdom. Those who continue in their sins and do not repent will receive a place in the telestial kingdom. Were they saved even though they did not repent?
  11. I view being saved from our sin as synonymous with being saved in our sin (Romans 5:8-10).
  12. I came across a copy on Ebay and purchased it.
  13. In Alma 11:37 and Helaman 5:10–11, what is the difference between being saved "in" our sin versus being saved "from" our sin if a person repents while he exists in a sinful condition?
  14. That is not the impression I get when I read Exodus 34:1. The Lord said to Moses, “Cut for yourself two tablets of stone like the first, and I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke.
  15. I found this in the April 2014 General Conference “Today is April 6. We know by revelation that today is the actual and accurate date of the Savior’s birth.”
  16. Reading further shows a more detailed view of the method of evangelism and the extra role the pairs of two would undertake. And he said to them, “Whenever you enter a house, stay there until you depart from there. And if any place will not receive you and they will not listen to you, when you leave, shake off the dust that is on your feet as a testimony against them.” So they went out and proclaimed that people should repent. And they cast out many demons and anointed with oil many who were sick and healed them.
  17. When I combine both chapters 30 and 31, I see it as a restoration of the northern kingdom and the southern kingdom, where they are generally referred to as Ephraim and Judah. The particular blessing of the future reconciliation of Ephraim (as the northern kingdom) is talked about in verses 18-20.
  18. What priesthood do you believe 1 Peter 2:5,9 is a reference to and are women included or excluded from it?
  19. From what I searched for and found below, let me know of my bullet points sound right. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bd/firstborn?lang=eng The faithful saints were made members of the Church of the Firstborn in eternity, since they receive through Jesus Christ the inheritance of the firstborn (D&C 93:21–22). Joseph, though not the firstborn of Jacob, received the inheritance as though he were the firstborn (1 Chr. 5:1–2), as also did Ephraim (Gen. 48; Jer. 31:9). https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bd/birthright?lang=eng Under the patriarchal order, the right or inheritance of the firstborn is known as birthright. - All worthy male Latter-day Saints, regardless of tribal lineage, inherit the birthright (or right of the firstborn) enabling them to be Melchizedek Priesthood holders. The order of birth (whether first, second, or third) is irrelevant. - All worthy male Latter-day Saints, regardless of tribal lineage, have the patriarchal order. Numbers 26:35 lists 3 sons of Ephraim; Shuthelah, Becher, and Tahan. Which of them inherited the right of the firstborn? What priesthood did each have? Do you believe Jeremiah chapter 31 and the verses I quoted before in Hosea (4:17; 5:3-4; 6:10; 7:1-16; 8:11-13, 9:3, 9:11-17, 10:6, 12:1-2,14, 13:1-3,12-15, 14:8) is about the single tribe of Ephraim or the ten northern tribes as a whole? From my reading of Doctrine and Covenants 68 and 107, it seems the Aaronic priesthood is more firmly dependent on being a literal lineal descendant whereas the Melchizedek priesthood is not tied to any specific tribal lineage. Is that a fair statement?
  20. A church manual says "It is essential in this dispensation that Ephraim stand in his place at the head, exercising the birthright in Israel which was given to him by direct revelation. Therefore, Ephraim must be gathered first to prepare the way, through the gospel and the priesthood, for the rest of the tribes of Israel when the time comes for them to be gathered to Zion. The great majority of those who have come into the Church are Ephraimites. It is the exception to find one of any other tribe, unless it is of Manasseh". It is Ephraim, today, who holds the priesthood. It is with Ephraim that the Lord has made covenant and has revealed the fulness of the everlasting gospel. It is Ephraim who is building temples and performing the ordinances in them for both the living and for the dead". I assume this is a quote from the early 1830s. With the small exception of those from Manasseh, when did members of the other tribes get the privilege to be regarded as coming into the church, building temples, and performing ordinances? Did all of Ephraim's descendants throughout history (whether they are first born or not) hold the birthright?
  21. Since Lehi was from Manasseh, I would assume all the authors were Manassehites. I understand what you said before about Ephraim inheriting the right of the firstborn in a symbolic way for all of Israel. After Ephraim, I see that the nation of Israel is later called the firstborn of God (Exodus 4:22 - "And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn"). I assume this means initially the literal descendants of Israel and later (maybe?) the "spiritual Israel" (made up of Christians post resurrection). After Ephraim and the nation of Israel are referred to as the firstborn, the label falls on David. Speaking of him (verses 20), Psalm 89:27 says, "Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth." Unless Jesus is the focus here. I found a reference in the January 1991 Ensign magazine which said the following: "Although President Young identified Joseph Smith as a “pure Ephraimite” in the above quotation, so far as the Prophet’s family or blood lines were concerned, Brigham Young and others have recognized that (1) Joseph Smith was from a Gentile nation and (2) some of Joseph Smith’s progenitors may have come from bloodlines other than that of Ephraim. (See Journal of Discourses, 2:268.) Based on what 2 Nephi 3:23-34 says, I interpret that as saying a Joseph (assumed to be Joseph Smith) would come from the lineage of Lehi's youngest son Joseph. The blessing was that the seed of Lehi's youngest son would not be destroyed. It was hard to see how he could be "pure Ephraimite" when he had "Manasseh" in the blood line. You said "In theory, Jacob's/Israel's benediction to Joseph at Genesis 49:22-26 is considered the basis for the Josephite/Ephraimite birthright". I agree with that "in theory" part. Even though Jacob gave a blessing to Ephraim above Manasseh, I do not see anything about the right of the first born being transferred to Ephraim. Regarding the birthright, I believe that the right of the first born fell on every first born male or female to a father and it had no connection with the priesthood. Even though God's covenant was with Isaac, the birthright (or right of the first born) still belonged to Ishmael (Deuteronomy 21:15-17). The Levites were later chosen instead of the firstborn and given the priesthood. I do not see any association with a male or female being the first born (having the birthright) to holding the priesthood in a family (at the expense of brothers and sisters born to their parents afterwards). The birthright, the right of the first born of a father, does not pass onto all lineal descendants, only to the first. In turn, each of the first born of his lineal descendants passes this birthright to their respective first born.
  22. Do you have a reference(s) to what Book of Mormon characters held the Melchizedek Priesthood as taught by some LDS authorities?
  23. I take the later position; as Ezekiel identifies the two sticks as two nations. What was Ephraim's work in the Book of Mormon, Old Testament, and New Testament in regards to the priesthood? Christ came from a tribe of which nothing was said of the priesthood (Hebrews 7:14). Personally, I do not believe any specific tribe had any special role in the New Testament; whereas the tribe of Levi was the designated one in the Old Testament to serve the nation in a spiritual role. I think the LDS church cannot validate Ishmael's lineage from those missing 116 pages. Speculation on any part of that manuscript begets even more speculation. I do not find any role of Ephraim in the Book of Mormon and the Old and New Testaments for preaching and writing. Regarding Joseph Smith, how do you believe he inherited the birthright?
  24. When I read those scriptures I quoted earlier, I don't see a reference to only one individual.