romans8

Can someone clarify a few passags in this chapter. 1 Nephi 5:6 says they went to Jerusalem to obtain the record of the Jews. Verse 11 says the record of the Jews contained the five book of Moses. Verse 12 says the plates also contained a "record of the Jews from the beginning, even down to the commencement of the reign of Zedekiah, king of Judah". Do the peoples who make up the "Jews" and their record exclude all the other tribes outside of Benjamin and Judah? What is considered the "beginning of the record" of the Jews? Matteo

I do not think it will be a PR disaster. Even a church video shows Heavenly Father having children of different nationalities (like Africans and Hispanics in the pre-mortal life). https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/video/2010-11-01-introduction-our-heavenly-fathers-plan?lang=eng The Folk Prophet referred to D&C 132:63 in one of his replies. But when I look earlier, it mentions Heavenly Father glorified himself in the same way; with plural marriage (verse 31). Matteo

The church needs to omit those Introductory notes and change this teaching that I found online in one of its manuals. Lehi is clearly talking about why the lineage of his youngest son would not perish (verses 23-24).

I have a different interpretation so we can agree to disagree. Isaac was the child of promise and born the way God had planned. Ishmael was a child produced through Abraham's and Sarah's own attempt to enable God to do what he had said. That is what I mean by after the spirit vs after the flesh (which is not of God's design; even though he allowed it). I found a few links to explain the exegesis further. https://www.gotquestions.org/the-flesh.html https://www.emeryhorvath.com/are-you-after-the-flesh-or-following-the-spirit/ https://www.bibleref.com/Romans/8/Romans-8-5.html

I found this good article that has more explanation about it. https://enduringword.com/bible-commentary/genesis-20/

I would agree. That is why I do not accept the claim by the Roman Catholic Church that it is the only true church of Christ. These keys were given to all the disciples (see Matthew 18:1-2; 18). The apostle Paul and others would add "true doctrine" to sign of genuine Christianity. Matteo

I am not invalidating anything you say but I will add some comments. Jesus commissioned and gave authority to his church to preach the gospel and to make disciples. I do not rely on nor need the permission of any church leader to go to any country of my choosing to preach the gospel and baptize people. If it does not interfere with another biblically sound church in that area, I can even establish a home church (with or without the permission of the communist regime if I were to to go there). In my present circumstances, I am allowed to attend any church, even if it not in my geographical area. But some churches have registered members or elders and you must be approved for this. They do this to further protect the doctrinal integrity should apostasy try to drive the church in the wrong direction. But elders are allowed to be elders at other churches of their choosing too (if they are qualified). As for what @Traveler said. I do support formal theological seminary, but it may only be required if some institutions require some form of proven education. For example, a school in my country would not hire a teacher without the proper accreditation and/or experience. As for a church environment, you can easily tell the spiritual maturity of a person when they get up to the podium and begin to speak.

There are several instances with Abraham and his wife that come to mind. The first was when they went down to Egypt. A famine arose. Instead of staying in Canaan and relying on God to provide, Abraham and Sarah leave to go down to Egypt. Then Abraham, not trusting in God to protect his life, told Sarah to lie and say that she was his sister (Genesis 12:10-20). He was "tried" in his faith and he had failed. He was "chastened" in the act when he was told to leave their area (v.20). Abraham was chastised and tried when he attempted to hasten God's promises to him by listening to his wife Sarah to obtain a son through human effort. Family complications arose as a consequence (ex. hostility between Abraham/Sarah/Hagar and subsequently between Ishmael and Isaac). That is why scripture refers to Ishmael as being born of the flesh whereas Isaac was born after the spirit (Galatians 4:22-23,29).

According to what I have read so far, Lehi is of the tribe of Manasseh. 2 Nephi 3:12-15 (with the introduction notes) is used to claim Joseph Smith would come in the same lineage (loins) of Lehi's youngest son (also of Manasseh). Unless Smith's lineage is claimed from his mother if she was of Ephraim?

In reference to #1, what privilege of Ephraim as the new birthright holder had he over Manasseh? In reference to #2, what did the lineage of Ephraim contribute, as writings, to the Book of Mormon?

That makes sense. I also found this article on desiringgod 1. The sins of the fathers are punished in the children through becoming the sins of the children. I the Lord...visit the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.” (Exodus 20:5; cf. Numbers 14:18) The generations to come who experience the penalty of the fathers’ sins are those who hate God. We are not told how the fathers’ sins become the children’s sins. But what we are told is that when the father’s sins are visited on the children it is because the children are really sinful. That is the form in which the fathers’ sins are visited. Therefore, all judgment is really deserved by the person who is punished.

What do you mean by the Holy Ghost came after the Son?

I read those verses in Genesis 48 but it seems Manasseh kept the right of the firstborn (of Joseph) even though Ephraim was said to become greater than Manasseh. Regarding Jacob's other children, another son held the right of firstborn in that instance. As Israel subsequently multiplied into the hundreds of thousands, there were many sons with this right of firstborn. From what I gather from 2 Nephi 3, Lehi (of Manasseh) is speaking to his youngest son Joseph and he tells him that his seed would not be destroyed and from it would spring another Joseph (also from the seed of Manasseh) who would bring about the restoration (verses 3,23-24). The Introductory notes mention this as Joseph Smith.

How is a person obtaining a physical body better able to show or experience love than another person who only has a spiritual body? Or let me rephrase - did you love God more or less in your pre-mortal life than you do now in your physical body?

I am familiar with that part but not totally clear on it. What specific blessing (s) did Ephraim receive that Manasseh did not?

I found this on the church web site. President Joseph Fielding Smith emphatically stated: “The great majority of those who become members of the Church are literal descendants of Abraham through Ephraim, son of Joseph.” (Improvement Era, Oct. 1923, p. 1149.) Is a great majority 80% or more? If you and your wife are from Ephraim, how could your daughter be of Manasseh or Levi or some other tribe?

I had a question regarding 1 Nephi 5:10-19 As Lehi was growing up, did his lineage remain a mystery to him and he only discovered it with Laban's brass plates? Was a family's lineage only kept in one record in one place in all of Israel and this record was kept private to the citizens? Matteo

I would disagree. I would say that secular society views anyone with passionate faith (no matter what religion) as weird.

I think those who get very little benefit have some habitual or secret sin that they refuse to give up. I agree with what you said - they have to read it and live it.

So if I understand you correctly, those who do not enter the temple or enter in an unworthy manner are in the end condemned by the Lord.

This is a complicated balancing act. Tolerance portrays the concept of non-acceptance or viewing something as being wrong whereas inclusion could also give one the impression that their actions are okay from God's view.

When do the unworthy temple recommend holders (if that is possible) or those who do not have temple recommends hear Jesus tell them "I do not know you?" (Matthew 25:12). Matteo

I think there were several attempts to assassinate him but they failed. It would have been better had someone succeeded. Hitler's endgame was to exterminate various nations (Jews, Gypsies, etc). What nation (singular in this case) was preserved from perishing in unbelief by the killing of Laban?

How does 1 Nephi 4:13 apply to Laban? Matt

I have talked to Jehovah's Witnesses. They told me I worship a false Christ if I believe he is God.