LDSGator

and you can legit sing, so you have the talent. You’ve also tried to “make it.” @Ironhold and @LDSGator need to stay in our lanes. The only comparison I have (and it’s a lousy comparison) is my martial arts “career”. Which bombed when I realized in two seconds that my best jump turning 45 kicks did nothing against my opponent. Even more sad was this was a B tournament. We’re not talking Olympics here.

Yeah, it’s gross to think of, that’s for sure.

I know this sounds gross, but everyone has to remember that I didn’t grow up LDS, or in 70’s. Up until I joined the church, I thought Donny and Marie were husband and wife, and even then I didn’t think about them much

And again, you proved my point. Their record sales were awful so they had to create something else. And oh yeah, these guys created “Gabba Gabba”

That’ll make them some money, but even with all that they are still the extremely rare exception. Also, everything I said about their band is still true. If it was so easy, guys with talent like @The Folk Prophet would have figured out the formula twenty years ago.

@Ironhold, you just proved my point. In 16 years these guys have about 270,000 album sales. In sixteen years. You might like them, but that’s peanuts.

Sure, you can name one band that a few people know about it. The Aquabats are not a household name, either. What you aren’t naming are the thousands of comic writers, authors and bands who have tried and failed.

I fall squarely in this category. I’ve been kicking around our conversation a bit as well. I feel sorry for LDS artists of all types. Even in Utah, I’m not sure there are enough LDS who are willing to pay money for your comic book, music, or movie. Are there some? Absolutely, but in order to make a living off it you have to appeal to a mass audience.

Some humor.

In fact, more I think about it you could argue many crimes done in negligence aren’t based in “hate”. They should still be crimes of course. “Hate” is a strong word. I’ve seen guys push each other around (assault) then five minutes later act like nothing happened.

Speeding is a crime as well, and could be purposeful. It’s illegal and should be but not done in hate.

We agree fully here my friend.

I think one of the fundamental problems with liberalism is that it doesn’t understand that you can’t just throw money at a problem and make it go away. Give money to a drug addict and she’ll spend it on heroin. Give a house to an untreated mentally ill person and he’ll burn it down because the voices in his head tell him to. It’s not funny, it’s sad.

It’s just an opinion of course but I didn’t get the delusion, I just felt dirty. Like I want to make sure I still have my wallet and then go take a bath. I had those about my martial arts career then I participated in a bigger tournament and got promptly shown where my talents would lead me. Once you step into a bigger pond you learn quickly that your delusions are just that.

Oh okay. The best debates I’ve ever had are with a guy I’ve known for 20+ years. He was a hardcore socialist, but I’ve moderated him down to “just left wing” now. We joke that in a few years he’ll be a Trump supporter. 😉

That’s always bothered me as well. It doesn’t just seem like theft, it’s a kick to the stomach AND stealing your money .

Wow, we agree on something artistically! It came across as very fake to me, like he was telling me about a used car I should buy.

If you’ve never read Free to Choose I highly recommend it. Life changing book. Also, I have to add F.A Hayek’s Road to Serfdom.

@Grunt

I love this thread so far. I’ve had hundreds of debates with my friends about tax policy. We’re real fun at parties. 😎

I totally agree with you. That, but Henry George wrote excellent pieces on how a land tax is the most moral form of taxation. https://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2006/0306gluckman.html This link is just an introductory article.

What separates from me from “pure libertarianism” is that I think we need some form of taxation. I swing between a sales tax and a land tax. I find a straight income tax to be horrific. Even in the “best” cases taxation is a necessary evil.

Fair enough. I also think the military is necessary.

I’m not a military guy. What I know about the military could fit into a thimble. In fact, you had to explain to me the difference between “Officer” and “Enlisted”. Again, I also agree with you fully on taxation being theft and that our military is used incorrectly. How do you justify your beliefs while being a part of it? It’s a fair question.

I feel the same way about the military industrial complex, but I don’t get pay my salary with tax dollars!