pushka

I must apologise for not replying to the posts generated by my response regarding Baptism by Proxy earlier...I have had an extremely busy few days, and have only just caught up with this thread. Thank you everybody who has replied. John Doe, you gave an excellent response regarding missionaries teaching in the afterlife...and perhaps you and another poster (sorry if I can't recally all your names) explained about the endowments? (hope that's the correct term) that you give to the deceased on earth, that they can then use in the afterlife if they accept the Gospel taught to them at that time...that makes more sense about why the Baptisms are taking place, and that the deceased still has freedom of choice to accept the teaching/baptism on their behalf or to reject it afterwards. I've been very interested in the other responses about the differing views of Muslims, Jews and Christians regarding the theology behind God and Jesus Christ, and have to say that I appreciate the views of Thunderfire on this issue.

Lindy, Thank you for your kind comments regarding my posts...I love reading yours too! :)

Ok everybody, I know this sounds as far fetched as JS receiving the Gold Plates containing the BofM...but you believe that don't you? Anyway, whatever you feel about it, I recommend watching the film: Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark, in which all this is described much better than anything I can post on here... I do agree that plenty of people are going to exploit others' beliefs in this substance and it's uses and overcharge them for bottle containing it...and I do not endorse any of that... If scientists can utilise the substance for use in medical and space programmes, then why not?

John Doe, Proudduck and Amillia...yes I see your points regarding not caring about what another religion cares to do in your name after you have died, if it turns out that the church doing the deed is the 'one true one' then yes, I agree that they have done a great favour to mankind. Just one question though...sorry if it sounds silly...when we are dead, will there be LDS missionaries teaching us the Gospel according to the LDS church? for those who have not been baptised by proxy? If so, surely they could try to convert the deceased instead of us taking the time to do it on their behalf now?

here's a couple of links that might make my explanation clearer and more interesting: http://www.whitepowdergold.com/main.shtml http://graal.co.uk/whitepowdergold.html The second link is to the book by Laurence Gardner whose lecture I watched yesterday...

Well Tao...I understand your problem with the site...perhaps doing a Google search for Monatomic elements or something would give you some of the easier sites to read. I'm not too good at relating everything, but apparently if gold is broken down to its base elements...without the 'glue' that makes it metallic, it consists of a white powder; this white powder was produced in great quantity by the Egyptians and was stored in temples...apparently the word 'worship' was actually 'workship' in the beginning, and the Egyptian temples were not churches as we now make temples, but were 'factories' where this white powder was produced and stored...it is strange in that it is able, due to heating and cooling, to be as light as a feather or x amount of times heavier than it's original gold form...(sorry if my explanation isn't very clear)...the powder is supposed to affect your brain when ingested...studies have been carried out on humans and it was found that instead of the people using mainly their left brain, they began to use both sides of their brains equally, and there have been other claims that the powder can levitate and become invisible...some correlation has been made to Moses returning from Mount Sinai with the Ten Commandments, and upon seeing the Golden Calf being worshipped by his people, he somehow made them eat it...it has been suggested that he did this by making the gold into the white powder and feeding it to the people as 'bread'. This is all very vague, I know...there is lots more to explain, as in how the white powder can be used to cure cancer and other uses too, it's quite late here so I don't really have the time to explain it all...or remember it all to be honest...Please try looking up some more sites and learn all you can about this...it really is interesting...also...see Aerogel? Please let me know if you manage to find some easier sites regarding this substance...

Has anybody been following the recent research into Monatomic elements...the white powder from gold, which is all the rage in NASA these days? I watched a film from 2003 yesterday, Secrets of the Ark of the Covenant, and it was fascinating...gave explanations for Moses feeding his people the gold from the golden calfs, to the way in which the sandstone blocks that made the pyramids were moved...really good stuff...here's a link for anybody that's interested: http://www.crucible.org/monatomic_elements.htm

Yes I've noticed that Tao, which is why I've always respected Christ and his teachings, whether or not I can accept the rest of the Bible as being 'true'.

I remember you when you first came to these boards (or at least the first time I saw you here)...you seem like a whole new person...much more positive, talkative. I think you told me back then that you were afraid to post messages because of self-esteem issues (was that you?). Now I see you posting very interesting things all the time. By the way, I am also dependent on medication to get me throught the day. I hope to go off of them in the near future, but I'm not ashamed of it. I think of my emotional problems (OCD especially) as a diabetes-like illness that needs to be medicated every day. It helps me make the distinction between the "real me" and the "disease". Tao...yes that was me...under confident and all the rest...I'm slowly getting there, although I still wonder sometimes, when I'm posting on here, that I may be offending the LDS people, and be viewed as an 'anti' instead of as somebody who has been through the 'system' and has just formed their own ideas about what to believe and take from it as good, and what to ignore, without wishing to offend anybody who has chosen to accept the Church totally... My friends, who work with me in the Community Groups to which I belong, have really helped me to believe in myself, and to explore my creativity...I now work on newsletters, posters and leaflets for at least 3 groups, and attend many meetings a month plus work shops for media skills and 'governance'...and this keeps me from being completely isolated as I was in the last few years...and makes me feel useful. I hope that I can keep on 'keeping on' and remain as happy as I feel at this moment.

Tao...I gotta admit, I've drunk a full bottle of red wine this evening, so my mind is a little addled...I mentioned on another thread that I read some Jack Kerouac stuff in the 80's and perhaps needed to read it again to understand it better...can you tell me...is it just the excess of wine in my brain that is preventing me from fully understanding the passage that you have quoted? or do I need some sort of interpreter to understand the way in which Jack Kerouac presents his ideas? I feel so uneducated!!! LOL

I think that would be a wonderful thing to do Tao...thank you for offering!

Tao, I recently attended a self help group for people suffering from mental health problems, and one of the things that was recommended for recovery was meditation as per Buddhism...I haven't quite got there yet, but from what I have read I feel that it would be very beneficial to me... Some people...ie. my ex-husband! LOL...just call me a hippy because I truly believe that you can create a more peaceful atmosphere around you by being peaceful yourself...refusing to get angered unless something really atrocious happens, being reasonable about events that occur and trying to reconcile them peaceably...it must be very difficult to argue with a person who refuses to argue back!! LOL... I'm by no means perfect, in fact I hide myself away from the world a lot when things become too much, I still rely on anti depressants and sleeping tablets to get me through the week...however, I feel tons better since becoming involved with voluntary Community work recently...still working from home (I'm slightly agrophobic), but doing things that benefit others and myself...I don't feel as if I need any particular church to attend in order to feel that I am doing right...I try to be good to others, put their feelings on a par with my own, so that I try not to be selfish, and to treat others as I would expect to be treated...what more can I do?

I've probably repeated this story in numerous threads already, but here it is again for those who haven't heard it already: When I was 13 and 'In love with Donny Osmond!' I was regularly subscribing to the Osmond family magazine, Osmond's World, in which they talked not only about their life 'on the road' but also their Spiritual beliefs and whatnot. They were Mormons, and the Burnley Mormon church was only a 10 minute walk from my home. At the time that I read about them more, and saw an episode of Whicker's World on British TV where they were interviewed about their religious beliefs, amongst other things, I was going to parties and drinking quite heavily...I was shy though, and used to cry at the end of the evening because I didn't fit in with the other people in spite of trying to drink to relax. The stuff I read about the Mormon church and the WoW in particular sounded good to me...healthy, also my mum and dad were always arguing and my dad used to hit my mum a lot, so as I started to investigate the Church I found it a good escape from my home life...I had a group of friends, my own age, who didn't care about drinking and sex, but just hung out for a good time and had good ideals. I stayed with this until I was 18...I found a boyfriend out of the church when I was 16, and this compromised my standards, so eventually I had to leave the church...or become a hypocrite... I have to say that, although I do not find the story of Joseph Smith and the BofM, BofA and others believable anymore, I did find the Church useful at a time when I was struggling to make friends outside of school and to look after myself physically...I can never thank the Church enough for helping me through those years. I was married for 11 years to the 'man' I met when I was 17, we dated for 6 years before marrying...I should have known better than to marry him after all that time, however, now we are divorced and I am raising my 2 children alone, we have been divorced 6 years, and my children are now 12 and 16, and we are happy. I am glad to have put my marriage behind me. I spent 20 years or so wondering about returning to the Church, however I did do lots of research online and decided that to return would not be the correct thing for me...I appreciate the good things taught within the WofW and I appreciate the importance of families within the LDS church...but, unfortunately, I cannot return to believing that which I believed at 14. I have suffered from severe depression, attempted suicide, and am now re discovering myself and my abilities through voluntary work for community groups and self help groups for people suffering from mental health problems.

I agree with Maureen and Ex Mormon Jason... How would the LDS people like it if another religion came along and baptised their dead relatives...or themselves...into their religion by proxy because the religion believed it was the 'one true' church of Christ? Presumably when these Jewish, or non-jewish people died they had not accepted the LDS religion, therefore they had no desire to be baptised into it? If you feel that the Jewish people think there must be 'something to' this baptism by proxy by objecting to it, how would you feel if the tables were turned and you were being baptised by proxy into another religion after your death?

I wonder why you think that when he explicity stated the contrary. He, falsely, claimed that the WoW has been debunked in most regards. In fact, it has not. The observable fact of the matter is that Utah is the or amoung the leading states in most every single measure of health. And, mostly where they are not, the likely culprit is lack of WoW observance. Sorry Snow...you're right on the ball there...once again I'm putting words/ideas into other people's mouths/heads, by forgetting the first part of their thread and concentrating on the latter bits!! Anybody got a stone I can crawl under????

Thanks Tao...you might have inspired me to go and search for that book...I need some interesting stuff to read, too many text books sitting around me at the moment, for my liking!

Yes I just noticed... Btw...I read one or two Jack Kerouac books back in the 80's, must admit that I couldn't quote from any now...but I might get round to re-reading them one day...I just wondered what the link was between your story and his Dharma Bum book? I can't recall reading that one.

Taoist Saint, thanks for the link to your story...it's very interesting.

I think that JRodan brought up the plain fact that, in his opinion, the Word of Wisdom, although a good 'doctrine' to teach, was possibly not a revelation but was 'lifted' from other sources. He also pointed out many other 19th century medical discoveries which the LDS prophets were denied revelation about, and perhaps wondered why this would be the case, that God would choose to reveal to them the nature of tea, coffee, cocoa, soup? etc. and advise against partaking of them, and yet stop short of making revelations about Penicillin, and other important medical breakthroughs. Amillia, you have faith that you have received proof that the WoW was a revelation received by the prophet...that is fine for your beliefs, others are more sceptical where proof is existant that these 'revelations' had already been preached about - in a non religious way, perhaps, by others before your LDS prophet received his revelation.

Here's a link to my web forum on which we had a short debate about vegan diets...if I find any more references on the forum which are applicable I will post those too: http://oogleboogle.proboards23.com/index.c...&num=1102188578 http://oogleboogle.proboards23.com/index.c...&num=1092914919

Just read a little of the last few posts regarding the atonement, and the beliefs of Amillia... Curvy, Cal and Shanstress 70 I agree with you entirely.

The promise is what good it is. There is a future even in Heaven. You know that an eternity is only 5 billion years or so, right? Well, there are keys given in the temple which give the power to move from one kingdom to the next as you progress ~ because there is progression even after this life, for everyone. The punishment for those who don't do what they should according to the knowledge given them is: They will be lagging a bit behind ~ and just as your married children aren't under your roof here, (hopefully) they won't be there either ~ if you are in a higher kingdom you will be able to visit them as often as you like ~ They just won't be able to pop in on you ~ :) Amillia, With all due repect, this is all speculation, even in the Mormon church. There is no church doctrine as to what exactly goes on in the hereafter with regard to each of these kingdoms. You hear so much contradictory stuff, even from GA's that there is no way to nail it down in terms of actual doctrine, so it is important, especially when talking to non-mormons to preface such remarks with "Now this is just my opinion, and not church doctrine". I'm not really reading all of the posts in this thread anymore, however I am pleased that Cal has finally put my mind at rest regarding 'the hereafter', that it is not Church Doctrine, but speculation...I have been asking for 'proof' of the Mormon view of the hereafter for a while now, and have not received any...Thank you Cal.

Ts and UsNational...I agree entirely with both your posts.

I have been interested in Judaism and the jewish way of life ever since studying the childhood life of Jesus in Scripture study at school...we had to learn about the culture into which he was born and everything. It was fascinating. I've been to a local Jewish Museum (Manchester, UK) and looked at documents there...bought a couple of little booklets about various aspects of jewish life/religion...as I was leaving a woman asked me if I had managed to trace any of my ancestors there!!

http://www.trashfiction.co.uk/mckinney.html Just a quick link to the case of one Joyce McKinney, who, in the late 70's, became famous for raping a Mormon Missionary...must admit I didn't know she had an accomplice to help her.