pushka

I'm sorry to hear that you were not greeted at your new ward...I can't really offer any concrete advice, however I do hope to hear that the situation has improved for you soon!

You know, it always staggers me that people actually decided to start building towns and cities in these highly dangerous areas...(not only in the USA but in the areas struck by other disasters, Indonesia, Italy etc.)...I mean, the stupidity of building along the Californian Fault Line, and building Pompeii at the foot of a volcano!!! I know it's too late now to turn back the clock, but surely the people who inhabited those places and started all the building were aware that there had been natural disasters there for centuries? Or am I assuming they were more educated than they really were...? Just my personal gripe at town planners/builders. I have a programme that I use to look at satellite images of the world, some images in the USA are fantastic...for instance prior to Katrina I was able to take screenshots of the Superdome and the highways with cars on them, and other streets and buildings there...with the help of add-ons to this programme, I believe you can now see images of the same places following this disaster...there is another part of the programme, Rapid Fire Modis, where you can highlight areas which have been affected by fires, floods, storms and other disasters...I noticed that many of these areas were the areas which, until the likes of Columbus discovered them, would probably have had little population, and so less loss of life when these disasters occurred...If only we humans had just left these islands/continents alone and not interfered... The programme I'm referring to is World Wind 1.3 and is available as a free download from the Nasa website...you might have to search a little to obtain it now, as I got it a few months ago.

ApostleKnight, thanks for reprinting those pieces...I read quite a bit of what you printed during my own Google search last night...so I feel a little more knowledgeable about the subject matter overall. I noticed, during my readings, that it was mentioned that Moses had used the same information, regarding signs, tokens, etc. as Pagans had, and that Christians and later Masons, followed by the LDS church had also used these same sources...but had altered them according to their own beliefs, eg: The Early Christians and the LDS church have stated that these originated from Jesus, and so on... My question, therefore, is how can Christianity justify using Pagan symbols etc. and then alter them according to their own beliefs when the origins of the symbols is so obviously Pagan, Occultist even? Wouldn't that be akin to me making up my own story of a Jesus type figure, and doing just the same? How could I expect anyone to believe that it was for real?

You all know my stance on God, Religions and Prayer...but that doesn't stop me from hoping that you all manage to survive this latest storm, and thank you for being so well prepared and for offering help to your neighbours who are less prepared. I wish you well...I have been very upset at the news reports of the recent storms.

ApostleKnight...Thanks for your reply to my enquiry...I have just spent the last couple of hours reading various websites about the early christian rites/rituals...their origin, believed to have been from Jesus, and their use by the Gnostics after an apostate revealed them to that group. It has been very interesting reading, my eyes are very sore now! lol...however I have saved a few other sites which I will explore too, as it really is a fascinating subject. Thanks for acknowledging that I did not mean your church any harm in my enquiries! :)

So does the LDS church really believe that in order to 'walk back into the presence of the Father'...as well as leading a righteous life, believing in him, worshipping him, not questioning his motives, although possibly not belonging to the LDS church, you ALSO have to 'give them the key words, the signs and the tokens pertaining to the holy Priesthood'? Sorry, but it sounds awful strange to me... I know Please said that, because I'm not LDS, I wouldn't understand about the signs, tokens and key words, and how they have been interpreted in the way the LDS use them by Joseph Smith, but surely there must be some more concrete evidence to prove that all this is necessary to gain entry into the Celestial Kingdom! Haven't most Christians believed that the Freemasons were involved with the occult, which is something the bible says you must not be involved with, for years...and wasn't Joseph Smith's father something to do with the Freemasons? Please can somebody enlighten me a little on this, without 'giving the game away'...I still feel it's strange that there must be secrets in the church... Sorry if this post doesn't make much sense, it's difficult for me to put my question into words... I just want to add a link to a website which tries to explain the links between Joseph Smith, the LDS church and not only Freemasonry but the Occult...I apologise if any of it's content is considered 'off-limits', I hope that I do not get banned for including it in this open forum...for the sake of balance, I have also included the LDS response to these claims..which I will read in full, and comment upon at a later date if I feel it necessary. http://www.irr.org/mit/masonry.html http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/respons...ple_masonry.htm

Heather, I think the Open Forum is the best and most logical approach to this problem. I do question lots of LDS beliefs, and do wish to find out more about them, and find factual evidence to support them if possible, it does not mean that I do not respect the LDS church or its members. I agree with the sentiments of others in this thread, that debate is essential to any website, whether it is between believing members or visitors that are curious or do not believe at all. Nobody who's faith is strong should be afraid of open debate.

I can't really comment on this, as i'm not well informed on USA politics, or this man's involvement with the LDS church...however from reading the first link provided, it appears that Reid is putting aside his personal beliefs as he is supporting the Civil Rights Movement for which the Democratic Party, of which he is a member, stands for...that is the way politicians in the UK work sometimes on certain issues...afterall, even politicians in the same party cannot always agree on every issue their party is concerned with...they just have to agree upon the major ones that affect the country.

Paul...I'm just wondering/curious to know if you believe in the BofA? do you believe in what it contains as being an inspired work, given to JS from God, even tho you do not believe that he correctly translated it from the papyri that is now available to scrutiny?

Hiya Please...I'm sorry if my 'tit for tat' comment seemed out of order...I just meant that we seemed to be contradicting each other, that's all, rather than debating an issue..you know, like: yes he does, no he doesn't, yes he does! LOL. Anyway, I agree with you that life isn't black and white and that yes, the decisions we make do affect many other people, often. That isn't to say that we must make ourselves unhappy by trying to be totally unselfish and follow what everybody else requires of us. Sometimes people have to be selfish, for instance when somebody is taking them for granted, obviously this is not the case in this instance. I don't feel that the husband is being selfish in his decision to leave the church, it is obviously a decision he has made after studying the issue and thinking a great deal about it...I can't imagine anybody easily deciding to leave the church. I feel certain that he will have spent many hours, days even, thinking over his decision and how it will affect his life and his family's life too...however, it is ultimately his choice to make, and he will have to live with the consequences of it. If his marriage is strong enough, and his wife's faith strong enough, then they will get through this, and I still feel that they will decide between them the correct time to make the announcement to friends and family members.

Hey! Thanks for including me in your list of favourite posters Please! :)

This is getting a little 'tit for tat' but I think that they will not hold back the information in the long run...they will decide between them when is the right time to involve anybody else.

Thanks Please..

Please, I'm sorry that this has been your experience regarding these situations however I don't think Owsar should give up hope at this time. I'm also not so sure if he IS hiding it...his wife states that SHE doesn't want to share the news with her family and friends, we don't know just how far down the road to breaking from the church her husband really is...he should be allowed to decide when it's time for it to become public knowledge, after consulting with his wife and her being given the opportunity to air her views about informing people too.

Owsar, before telling anybody else about this situation I think you should ask your husband whether he wants his feelings known yet. Please don't be too disheartened by what Please said about him casually throwing it all away and the possibility of him doing the same to you and your children...Please, I think you might have been better leaving that side of the debate for now...this lady needs reassurance that all may not be lost, not more worry! I am not a member of the LDS church, I attended for 5 years and then gave it up as I felt I was being hypocritical by attending and yet not following all of the 'rules'. I was torn at the time, because my boyfriend, later my husband, had made it clear to me that any children we might have would not be allowed to go to that church...I was not strong enough to stand up for my rights at that time. I hope that you can talk things over with your husband, and find that he will not be too objectional to your taking your children to the church...however, you must allow your children to decide for themselves whether or not it is the church for them, it is possible that they will reason out for themselves that it is not...that has nothing to do with 'poison spreading'. I wish you well and lots of good luck.

Wow! interesting but ominous report Fiannan...

Please, I'm sorry I made such a sweeping remark about the ease of learning French, I was mistaken obviously, it is an individual matter of course! As for having to learn the languages of the other countries, and being paid for doing so, this also happens in the UK, we learn Urdu and it opens us up to more employment opportunities and so better wages I suppose...I don't think it's the ability to learn the language in particular that makes the job pay better, I think it's that the job would be paid at that rate anyway, but is more accessible to more people if they happen to be able to speak that language. Why do you presume that most are illegal immigrants? have you any real statistics to back that up? Yes, I understand about immigrancy rules and regulations being stricter in some countries more than others...personally I feel it's about time we ALL learned that this world exists for everybody, not just for those countries that have enough wealth to control it, and own it's oil supplies and whatnot, and that we should all learn to understand each other and live together peacefully...I know also that there are faults on both sides as far as this is concerned, the extreme Islamic states as well as everybody else.

I'm glad to hear that in Belgium and France you made the effort to learn their languages...French is often taught at schools over here, so that wouldn't be such a big deal...I just wonder about some of the other countries..the Muslim countries for instance, as they are the ones that the writer appears to be addressing... Shanstress I'm pleased to hear that you would too. Btw, I'm not particularly trying to wind you two up, or appear aggressive in my questioning, I'm really referring to the type of people who write those kinds of articles, and make such sweeping judgements on foreigners...

You may agree with this, but do WE make the effort to learn their languages if we live in their countries I wonder?

Wow! That's great news Please!!! :)

You're all in my thoughts Please...good luck.

Please, I'm very sorry to hear of the 2 incidents above, and hope that you will all be able to support each other at this terrible time.

'No one from a terrorist nation will be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.' 'No foreign "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers.' 'If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere." They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need.' 'The Language we speak is ENGLISH...learn it...or LEAVE...Now, isn't that a winner of a plan?' "The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying ' Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses.' She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, ' you want a piece of me?' " The sweeping generalisations of the first 2 of the statements above, which appear to be saying that ALL people from those nations in which terrorists live are terrorists, as the nation is no longer a nation...it's a Terrorist Nation...I think those countries might say the same about the Good 'Ole US of A! The assumption that all the older people from those countries are BOMBERS! The flippancy and aggressiveness of the other quotes above...and the callous attitude towards famine, although I will agree that there are problems getting the supplies to the people who really need them, and that this ought to be addressed. It isn't the fault of the people suffering that they don't get these supplies however, it is the fault of their governments, and this should be addressed by some sort of other body...the UN perhaps?

That behaviour they display is terrible and mean, I agree with your 'good riddance' sentiment!

Thanks for explaining that Soulsearcher, I was a little confused too... It's so sad to hear that your family reacted as it did towards your Catholic baptism/upbringing, and I hope that they have changed their stance towards you as they have matured?