NeuroTypical

Oh, you can't be so sure. Pretty much every single fundamentalist evangelical out there has encountered critical information about Mormons, but that doesn't mean they all hate us, or even care. Here's my experience: We homeschool our kids. We've been involved in two different christian-based homeschool co-ops - one run by the Nazarenes, one run by my local Mega Church with ties to Focus on the Family. Both had similar policies and mission statements - basically, "We believe what we believe, and we're going to teach it to your kids, and if you're going to be part of the leadership/teaching, you need to believe it too." Honestly, after reading their statements of beliefs, a Mormon finds himself in agreement with just about everything there, except two biggies - the trinity, and biblical infallibility/sola scriptura. So our kids take classes like math and music and reading and English composition and sports and robotics and Colorado History, and they also learn what a bunch of evangelicals believe about God and why it's different than what we believe. We're upfront with being LDS (they also make sure and ask all new families up front). So we won't be teaching there any time soon. The org gets to draw the line at how involved mormons can be. The megachurch org says I can be a hall monitor, but not a food services assistant, or anything else. *shrug* So that's the policy side of things. The other side of things is people-based. Some people are just leery of mormons. But in our experience, most of them just have this half-remembered notion that there's something wrong with us, but they don't remember what it's supposed to be, or why they should care. Most of them. The quality of our experience is determined by the few who have a firm opinion one way or the other. At the megachurch, we've basically been viciously attacked by one person in leadership, and love-bombed by the rest of them, who did everything they could to apologize for that one lady's behavior. The attack was not pleasant. My wife called me in tears. But the love bombing seems totally genuine, and there's a heck of a lot more of it. They all seem to have become comfortable with the "mormons in their midst", and we've gone out of our way to be harmless and friendly, so it works. Anyway, if any mormon is interested in this Trail Life USA deal, you can expect similar types of experiences.

Hbdty!

Well, that's the thing, Martain, I've encountered such folks on a handful of occasions. They've taken me up on my offer. I managed to dream that night of showing up at the reflecting pool. They came back the next day reporting they had done the same. Nobody yet has been able to accurately describe my shirt. Satan had a prime example to work one of his false miracles, but didn't.I'm thinking that's becase the whole thing is a bunch of superstitious nonsense, overreacting to our own emotions and wierd dreams. The impact of vivid emotions isn't what I doubt. The relevance of such things, is. (One clarification - it isn't the shirt I'm wearing, it's the shirt I'm 'astrally-projecting' myself in.)

I've got experience getting our kids involved with differently-christianed organizations. The two things to keep in mind, are the policies/rules/statements of faith, and the people involved. Briefly: * If policies allow LDS, but other members hate mormons, your experience will not be good. * If policies don't allow LDS, it doesn't matter if the members like or hate mormons, you can't join. * If policies allow LDS, and the membership is friendly or neutral, then you can have a quite positive experience, as long as you never, ever, ever forget that you're guests there, and if you do anything close to proselytizing, you'll probably no longer be welcome there.

Sounds like Mormons won't be in leadership, but I don't see why LDS folks couldn't be a part of everything else.

Hi Maureen, just wondering - did you read my post above? It addresses your point quite clearly and directly (I thought)... We don't have to opine about possible answers here - it's in section 199 of the D&C. It's summarized in the Gospel Principles manual like this: You ask why mormons stick with the "old" covenant. I point out where the Lord gave specific instructions to Joseph, a handful of decades ago. That's not ignoring New Testament newness in favor of old Old Testament oldness. That's obeying what the Lord just finished telling you. Could you respond here?

Actually, yes indeed, I once did have a very real, incredibly disturbing dream where I was doing wrong things, and lucifer appeared. The more I continued doing these things, the more present, the more real, the more "there" he became. His presence was initially known by just a dark feeling, but eventually he was fully visible. It was horrifying. I woke up drenched in sweat, my wife told me I had been struggling and screaming in my sleep. I was nervous and on edge for days. My most vivid and overpowering emotional experiences have been through dreams. And I've had other dreams just as vivid and real. I once dreamt that Jupiter left it's orbit and Earth crashed into it. At the end, gravity on earth suddenly changed, and I heard a sound that can only be described as "Every tire on every car in the world suddenly popping and the air escaping, only to be dragged to the ground by it's own weight". I've dreamt about sinking in the titanic, and nuclear war, and what it feels like to be a dying puppy. I've dreamt an entire rich lifetime of an alien who decided to walk among us humans and experience what we experience. I've dreamt that Hawkeye from MASH was shooting rockets at me with his hands. I've known the depths of terror, love, lust, joy, humor, sin, death, and life in dreams. For whatever reason, my dreams are just sometimes accompanied by incredibly overpoweringly vivid emotions. But that's all they are - dreams. They don't control or define me - they only have the power I give them. They don't let in bad demons, only I can do that. You don't need lucid dreaming to let satan in to your life. Phooey.I remain skeptical of the whole thing. And, unlike most other people with strong opinions one way or the other on the issue, I have a clear open invitation to anyone who wishes to change my mind. Name the date, and I'll be there. Come back and tell me about my shirt. If you can accurately tell me what I was wearing, my opinion will spin on a dime.

We don't have to opine about possible answers here - it's in section 199 of the D&C. It's summarized in the Gospel Principles manual like this: Your question is basically "What if God did it differently - do you think things would be different?" I've never seen the relevance of such questions. If God had given no commandments, do you think folks would approach discipleship differently? I don't see the relevance. I bet a lot of poor widows across the millenia have encountered struggles and guilt at reading this section in the Bible. If the goal is to keep struggles and guilt feelings far away from us, one would think Christ would have had other things to say. I've never seen the point of asking such questions, but here goes: Maureen, if this scene had never happened or appeared in our Bible, do you think Christians would approach "tithing" or "giving" differently?

"Controlled gambling". Let's think about that for a minute. Some folks drain savings, lose homes, lose college funds, lose the food money on gambling. We'd say that's "uncontrolled gambling", right? So why do people do such things? Nobody sets out to become an "uncontrolled gambler", do they? Every moderately serious gambler I've ever known has some sort of plan or system somewhere in the back of their minds. And most gamblers I know, have not kept to their plan at least once. Why? They get suckered, become addicted, fall for the false allure that they can hit it big if they just play a little more, 'invest' just a bit more than originally planned. Gambling holds dangers similar to doing drugs. It's an addictive process, set into play by people who wish to make money off your weakness and addiction. No, of course you won't be one of the unlucky people who lose your shirt, then control over your life (unless you're one of the few unlucky ones). I used to gamble, and never lost my shirt. But the temptation was often there.

This isn't about religion, this is about how we handle disagreements and personalities with family. And that's about you. If he's made his position clear, then doesn't seem like there's any more reason to bring it up or even respond to it when he does. Just live your life and love your brother.

Let me be very clear here Bini. Because I was a goofy kid with glasses, I was thrown up against a locker, a knife was held to my throat, and I was told they would cut me unless I carried out the demeaning and embarassing orders they gave me.Are you honestly saying that if those things had happened to me because I was gay or mormon, the act of violence should be addressed and handled differently?

Yes, there are laws on the books. But this thread is about hate crime legislation - the extra layer of laws that make crimes against certain groups more serious than the exact same crime against a non-protected group.

I have two thoughts. 1. Everyone is on a journey. Let God guide yours. 2. TL;DR. But if I guess right, my first thought fits, right?

Here Mirk, I fixed that image for you.

So again, let me ask Quin now, how come "goofy looking kids with glasses who look like they won't fight back" aren't protected? I was a member of that group. - There are millions of us. - My mom was worried sick. - There were toadies at school who were nice enough by themselves, but easily pulled into a group of people who would do horrible things. - Copycats sprang up. - I considered and almost attempted suicide in my teen years because of this. - My report cards were full of comments like "[LM] is such a bright boy, but he won't apply himself/is so often not here" - etc. So again I ask everyone - how come beatin' up the goofy kid with glasses involves only one lesser wrong, whereas beatin' up the gay or Mormon kid is a greater wrong deserving of special treatment under the law? And again, the only answer that makes sense to me, is "Because hate crime legilsation is only a tool of social engineering used by people in power to forward their cultural agenda."

*sigh* So, nobody took me up on my offer? I'm worried that if I post a pic of my shirt, someone will show up and say "Sorry I'm late - that was the exact shirt I saw you wearing! Hooray - astral projection works!" Such things have happened before.

This line of thinking is increbibly tenacious. Folks of this mindset, upon getting the information they desire, invariably discover all sorts of expenditures with which they strongly and vocally disagree. I remember after Mother Theresea died - I didn't know much about her, so I was researching. I looked up criticisms levelled against her, and found many akin to gem's. They were ticked off at how she used her sway with world leaders, griping about how she should have done more in this area, or not focused on that area so much. The dear lady left behind worldly posessions of a bucket, a pair of glasses, a pair of shoes, and two simple coverings - but people were still accusing her of being a sellout, a dupe, a willing conspirator to the evils of the world. Hey Gem - some of our tithing went to refurbish a few chairs at some temple. The total bill was in the thousands of dollars. Do you wish to opine about the expenditure?

Yep. Our utility company also has a thing available that turns off a water heater from 2am to 5am.

Someone on a different board was having a big huge (and totally understandable from my pov) problem with some upgraded 'features' of her ward building. There were many "LEV only" parking spaces, outnumbering the handicapped spaces, and taking up all the prime spots. I remember her comment: "The next person that calls me to borrow my pickup truck for a move, is going to get an earful. Good luck cramming that couch in your Prius."

I'm hopeful for plug in cars, because if they do it right, we can time when the electricity is pulled out of the plug into the battery. America's power grid powers up and down several times a day to fuel our habits. There are times when there's surplus capacity but nobody to use it. So, if plug in cars become widely used, they can draw from the coal power plants during off-peak times. So maybe not necessarily the big hike in electricity that some forecast. How realistic my hope is, depends on who you ask. I don't know myself. But like MoE, I'm in favor of continuing to research and invent and solve problems.

Every year I break out this email and read it. My boss forwarded it to me. His brother worked in the WTC, although was not there on that day. One of his co-workers was, and this is his account:

I have a track record of buying the cheapest, most fuel-efficient cars available. When you drive 70+ miles a day, it's important. Wake me when it's $20k new. Actually, wake me a few years after that, so I can buy one for $9k used.

The running joke is that we're building the Ft. Collins temple to join with the Denver temple to strengthen the encirclement of Boulder. Yes, it really is that bad. You should see our state politics.

Hi and welcome sword!

Ok, so did anyone make it to the meetup last night? Quin's suggestions are good for my next experiement, but none of them correctly describe what I was wearing last night. I figure I was there somewhere between midnight and 5:30 AM, MST. Anyone?