WillowTheWhisp

Where do you get such teaching from CedarCityCougar? I know of no Christian denomination which teaches that.

I absolutely love that. We used to sing it in the school choir.

Give each other the freedom to date others whilst the other is on their mission, then when you meet gain when she comes back off her mission, which will be after yours see how you feel about each other then. My daughter's boyfriend has just gone on his mission and before he left they both decided that she should be free to date whilst he is away and then see how they feel about each other when he comes back. They will keep in touch whilst he is away.

It may encourage people to look at the church and see if it is a true representation.

Thank you all very much for your personal opinions which I appreciate, but what I was actually asking was if anyone cantell me if the Church has an official policy regarding sleepovers. Has the Church in fact banned them worldwide? I can't help thinking about EFY and such like and the fact that children sleep away from home for several nights on thos occasions, usually with adult in charge who the parents have never seen n their lives before. I do find it incredibly sad that every man is a child molesting suspect these days and daren't even speak to a child in the street for fear of being classed as a paedophile. Although it has been said that 80% of cases of child molesting have been by men it must therefore follow that 20% of cases have been women and yet people seem to have no fear of leaving their child with a women. There is still a 1 in 400 chance she could be a danger to the child if there is a 1 in 100 chance that a man could be. I remember a time when if a child fell off a bike you could pick them up and check if they we OK, bathe a grazed knee, give them a glass of lemonade. Now you daren't even look at a child falling off a bike in case you get arrested for molesting them. Human kindness has been legislated out of our lives.

Eternal marriage would seem rather strange if the partners were no longer attracted to each other wouldn't it?

Not sure where I should ask this. I couldn't find a section for Young Women questions. Can someone tell me what is the church stance on sleepovers now? In the past the Young Women have had sleepovers at the homes of leaders but has this been banned now?

That is the distinction for me. I can accept, but it will always be with great sorrow. I could no more condone my daughter sharing her bedroom with her girlfriend than I could condone my other daughter sharing her bedroom with her boyfriend. It may be acceptable elsewhere in the world and to most of their non-LDS friends but it is not acceptable in this house for anyone who is not married to sleep together. I cannot and will not compromise my standards on that. I believe I would be under condemnation by Heavenly Father for condoning sin if I did so. I still cannot understand how someone can be LDS and live in a homosexual relationship. Surely the church teaches that that is not acceptable. I'm really puzzled by this. I know we have had missionaries teaching people who have problems living gospel standards and until they do they cannot be baptised. Heavenly Father does not make compromises. There are too many other things to think about here at the moment and I'm beginning to feel that some people are asking me to water down the Gospel or to adjust and tweak things to encompass something which the Scriptures and Church leaders have said is not acceptable. Surely I would be letting both of my daughters down if I did not maintain my own standards? If my daughter ultimately chooses to walk away from possible eternal Celestial glory and exhaltation in favour of some alternative earthy pleasure here and now then that will be her choice but I can never pretend to be happy about that. If I accept it I will always grieve for her and what she has chosen to throw away.

We have a very small ward with only a few Young Women and she does have one particular friend but a few weeks ago she was the only one who didn't know that YW wasn't on one week as they had all gone to a school concert. She was very upset to be the ony one not told. I made a post on here about it at the time. She has not been back to church since then. We don't have a YW leader as such. We've been set up as a basic unit now with the RS Presidency also being responsible for YW and Primary. Gwen, thank you for sharing about your brother and your sister. You spoke mostly about how your brother responds and it seems that he is actually very supportive of your beliefs and full of regrets about his own choices. I could feel positive about someone like that because it seems he regrets his tattoos by covering them up and telling your kids not to do the same, and regrets being addicted to tobacco and tells your kids not to get hooked. In other words he isn't asking you to approve of his lifestyle and he is showing them that he doesn't really approve of it either. That is very different to a scenario where he could be asking you to approve of his tattoos and smoking and be offering cigarettes to your kids and offering to take them down to the tattoo parlour for their birthday present. Can you see how I could accept the former but be appalled by the latter? As far as your (and your childrems) relationship with your sister I'm not sure how I would feel if it were my sister rather than my daughter as I am an only child myself. All I know is how much I love my daughter and do not want to be separated from her in eternity. I don't want her to miss out on what she could have in the eternal worlds by making wrong choices here and now. It's because I love her so much that the thought of losing her breaks my heart. I don't want to lose her which is why the choice she has made upsets me so much because it means that I have to be separated from her because she can never be sealed to us for eternity. I cannot condone the relationship because it is what will keep us apart. Yes it is possible to love someone without approving of their action and lifestyle. I love my daughter to bits. If I did not love her I would not care who she chooses to spend her time with. I don't know if this makes me a hypocrite in your eyes. We are all children of God but it is he who has said that only those who keep his commandments can enter into his kingdom. How can it be hypocritical of me to believe that? Wouldn't it be wrong of me to pretend that my daughter and her girlfriend will be welcome in the Celestial Kingdom when the scriptures tell me they will not? Are you saying that if I cannot see why my daughter loves another girl then I am not seeing that girl as a child of God? I could see why she could be good friends with this girl and I would be happy for them to be friends, but not to be lovers. How do you reconcile being LDS with having a gay relationship? That is something I cannot understand. But in my daughter's case this is a choice because she says she is bi-sexual so she could choose to ignore her feelings for girls and just accept her feelings for boys but she has chosen not to do that despite knowing that it means walking away from the church and all she has been brought up with.

Gwen, I cannot be a hypocrite which I would have to be to welcome my daughter's lesbian girl friend into our home as she would not be here just as a platonic friend. In my own heart I cannot feel happy or comfortable about the relationship. To me it is just wrong. It is contrary to what my daughter has been brought up to know as true. I can happily welcome a gay friend into our home, to church even to our wedding but that was not someone in a homosexual relationship with any member of my family. He has chosen to be celibate. I'm also not sure about this 'unconditional love' stuff. I keep hearing that Heavenly Father loves us unconditionally but I don't understand that. It is my understanding that he loves us so much that he doesn't want us to do wrong but is prepared to forgive us when we repent, not accept us in our sins. That seems to me to be conditional upon our repentance, something my daughter is not prepared to do. I really don't understand why you say this is not the Bishop' stewardship. It has always been my understanding that the Bishop is the father of the ward and as such we go to him for help, counsel and advice. I know he was guided by the spirit to phone me the day my daughter was in hospital having her wound stitched. I wasn't able to talk to him right then, being in the emergency room, but knowing how much he cared I felt able to phone him later that evening and cry for help. I know he has only ever acted under the guidance of the Holy Ghost and not from personal opinion. He has been a great help spiritually and emotionally. If I were to condone this relationship of my daughter then I would be commiting a sin myself by doing so. The scriptures make that perfectly clear. I really cannot understand what you are trying to say here. I cannot tell her that things important to her are important to me when this relationship is the most important thing to her and simply cannot be imporant to me. I wish the girl did not exist and that my daughter had never met her. FunkyTown, my daughter is in the last year of High School and will be starting college next year. I hope that you are right and that she will grow out of this and want to change. It saddens me that schools seem to push "gay rights" and promote equality for people of all persuasion, even making it seem more attractive to be gay than straight. She is supposed to be being referred to a counsellor by the hospital in connection with the self harming. She said that part of the reason is the pressure from school to acheive high exam result (she is really very clever) and part of it is that she is a disappointment to me because she is bi-sexual. I told her the exam results don't matter to me, that's not the end of the world as she has a college place ready and waiting based on what she has already done but I cannot pretend that about her choice of a gay relationship. I told her it isn't just me who is upset by it, but her late father who would be looking forward to being re-united with her one day, and Heavenly Father who wants her to return to live as his daughter in the Celestial Kingdom. None of that seems to matter to her though.

I have great admiration for those who struggle with same sex attraction but choose to follow Gopel teachings and endure to the end. I have a teenage daughter who has made the opposite choice. She says that she is bi-sexual but has chosen a lesbian relationship over her membership in the church and this breaks my heart. I want to be sealed to her as well as her late father and her sister for all eternity. Without her our family is incomplete. My other daughter aspires to being married in the Temple. Her sister will not be able to attend. I have tried to explain to her that she can choose to dismiss her feelings for other girls and just go with her feeling for boys in much the same way as her heterosexual sister would dismiss any attraction she may feel towards a married man and just go with her attraction to the single guys, but she doesn't want to hear that. She knows that what she is doing is wrong in the Church's eyes so now she has chosen not to come to church with us. I am finding this very hard to cope with. Bishop says I should not condone the relationship and I have said the girl in question is no longer welcome to sleep over but all this has led to my daughter self harming and ending up in hospital and I just feel like crying all the time.

Don't let anyone make you feel guilty about not attending church because you are ill. This will only make you worse. I know some well-meaning people simply cannot understand an illness they cannot see and don't understand why you can't just "pull yourself together" and get on with it. I have asked such people would they expect someone with a broken leg to even attempt to run a marathon. Of course the answer is no, the idea would be preposterous. It is equally preposterous to expect someone who is mentally suffering to be able to function the same way as someone who isn't. If you cannot even cope with being in such situations as a church environment then to have a responsibility like nursery is completely out of the question. It's good that you have counselling. I hope you can get your health insurance and medication sorted out. I have to take medication for the rest of my life, without it I would go blind, yet no-one condemn me for having this disability. Neither should they criticise you if you need permanent medication for any reason.

Thank you all for your various comments. It's all irrelevant now though unfortunately.

But I did try to discuss it with the Bishop without even being able to get that far as I was initially just trying to find out what was happening last night and where my daughter should go but was reprimanded by the Bishop for doing just that and then reprimanded by my RS President for even contacting the Bishop. As this family isn't just 'a few members of the ward' but the majority of the ward it does make attending church there an ordeal for us rather than a spiritual lift. I need to spend some time somewhere, at least for a little while, where I am not being constantly drained. There is a song by Sally deFord called "Fill The Well Within" where it says "I cannot give with empty hands nor love with barren heart." - I can relate to it because I just feel like my well has been drained completely dry.

My mother was 42 when she had me and had a normal birth. I think I'm normal. I don't think they went in for C section way back then. I was 39 when my oldest daughter was born and 42 when my youngest was. Although I was told about possible risks of Downs syndrome I chose not to have the amnio because the gynaecologist said it could be a risk and as I was not entertaining the possibility of abortion he did not recommend it. My first daughter was born normally and is a perfectly happy healthy well adjusted 18 year old now. Her sister was born by C-section but not because I was an older mother, because I needed an op due to a tumour which needed to be removed and she was in the way. She is now a high acheiving 15 year old who has already passed school exams normally taken a year later.

Ours, like most others round here is a small ward. There is one family which seems to be most of the ward one way or another. She had 5 children and a step-daughter from a previous marriage before they married and he had 2 children. Since they married they now have another 2. Her mother and stepfather are members as is her first mother-in-law (who she is on good terms with) and her daughter, son-in-law and their children. The husband's father is also a member so all in all they do seem to be a large part of the ward. I have 2 daughters, one very active and one reluctant to be there, and a non-member husband and that's it for our family. One of the daughters of the large family is the YSA rep for the Ward. The Sunday before last the Primary leader (we don't have a Primary Presidency as such) had asked her to get the YSA to do sharing time for the following Sunday. She didn't pass anything on to the rest of the YSA about this, didn't even tell them, and then on Sunday simply told my happily active daughter to do the sharing time, at a moment's notice. My daughter was a bit stunned but got on with it. However, she was angry not to have been given any advance notice about it but our Bishop told her not to get mad at the YSA rep and not to upset her.The primary leader was also angry with the YSA rep but said nothing. Now skip forward to last night which was our Youth night and my daughter who reluctantly attends on Sundays actually enjoys the youth nights. It's the only church thing she actually wants to be involved in. She came home fromschool, got showered and changed and ready to go. My husband was ready to take her to the chapel which is several miles away in another town. They were just about to leave when overhearing my older daughter on the phone I called them back. She'd had a message from one of the older girls in this big family to say that she didn't think anyone else would be at Youth because their family was all at a pop concert at their school. They have 3 daughters in Young Women and also take a friend. I couldn't get in touch with a youth leader so I sent a message to Bishop asking if Youth was cancelled to save my daughter a wasted journey. He said the Young Men were at the Stake Centre but the Young Women were at the chapel. But by then my older daughter had been informed that all of the young women, leaders included were at the school pop concert which had started an hour earlier! So I sent another message to the Bishop to tell him that, and that no-one had told my daughter, who was rather upset at being left out. He then phoned me and said I should not be upset at no-one telling my daughter. I said I wasn't just upset at that but also that a youth night could be cancelled at the drop of a hat in favour of a school pop concert and that everything seemed to revolve around this one family. He then became angry with me and said I had no right to acuse him of favouring one family. I said I hadn't actually accused him of anything. But perhaps it was a guilty conscience on his part because several months ago in the chapel he bore his testimony of this family and said what a wonderful family they were and how he loves them all. My RS Presidency member responsible for Relief Society says I should not have even contacted the Bishp about it as Young Women is nothing to do with him. I had mistakenly thought all of the youth was the Bishop's responsibility. She is now angry with me for upsetting the Bishop. My younger daughter managed to contact one of the Youth Leaders as they left the pop concert. She did not know that my daughter hadn't been told about it. She thought the family who had changed everyone's plans had told my daughter too. They were going to go to McDonalds after the concert so she came and pickedmy daughter up and took her to that. The crazy thing here is that the family who changed Youth Night to School Concert Night didn't even go to McDonalds afterwards. They just went home. That was at 7:30. Youth normally starts at 7:30. There were 6 other Young Women apart from the 3 in this family and their friend (10 in all) so I don't understand why the other 6 and 2 leaders couldn't jsut have had the planned youth activity at the chapel (which my daughter had been involved in planning) and the 4 who chose to go to the school concert could have gone along later and just missed about 20 minutes or so in the time it would have taken them to get there from the school. Yet my daughter, the one who was left not knowing the plans had been changed, and my husband who would have taken her on a wasted journey, but for me overhearing a chance conversation between my older daughter and an older daughter of this family, are not supposed to feel let down/hurt/ignored/unwanted or annoyed with anyone over this. In fact we are in the wrong for being upset over it. Apart fromanything else I didn't think plans were supposed to be changed like that without Bishopric approval. Everything does seem to revolve around this one family, probably because they make up the bulk of the ward and it seems the 3 of us don't really matter because there's only 3 of us. My husband doesn't count because he isn't a member and doesn't want to be. A few months ago the mother of the family had a verbal go at me and because I was upset by that and told her so her husband and then her mother decided to confront me at Church for upsetting their family! Her sister (not a member) even accosted me in the middle of town accusing me of 'badmouthing' her sister and neice when I was actually talking to another friend about my own daughter!" It just feels like whatever they do to us they must be allowed to do and we must never allow ourselves to be hurt or upset by it and just let them do what they like. I just feel like I need a break from this place because I am being suffocated by bending over backwards all the time to appease this one family and so in spite of the fact that I'd agreed to teach a Primary class on Sunday and my older daughter was supposed to be teaching Relief Society we have all decided to go to another Ward at least for one week. My older daughter has been asking for a few weeks now if we can go somewhere else and this is just the end in a long line of things that makes her not want to be in our Ward. Am I wrong to be feeling this way? Are we wrongto want to be somewhere else? Was I wrong to contact the Bishop on the subject? I just thought as Bishop he would know what was going on when we didn't.

Hello, welcome and thanks for letting us know you like us.

Personally I think it matters more to marry someone with the same spiritual aims, goals and desires. I have been married twice. My first husband was a church member and we were sealed in the temple.I think I took it far too much for granted what a great blessing it was to have a priesthood holder in the home and we were both able to help and encourage each other spiritually. When he died I knew it was not the end because we were sealed and our children born in the covenant. When I remarried I didn't consider what a 'cultural difference' it would be marrying a non-member who doesn't have an important place for the church in his life. He attends sacrament meeting to 'support the family' and thinks that's all there needs to be. He really does not understand how big a part in our lives the church is. I thought this would work out OK with him not wanting to be sealed for eternity and me still having my first marriage for eternity but there is so much missing in the here and now. So many times I would have loved to have been able to ask for a priesthood blessing. There are people from very different backgrounds and countries in our Ward but the most important thing in life we have in common and that is our acceptance of the Gospel.

I know people who would even consider the second one to be immodest! My 18 year old would wear something under that dress. Swimming is not the same as going out for the evening.

Well if we can use the Illustrated Scripture Readers in the lessons then line drawings must be OK. Something must have been said to the Primary Leader at some time for her to have got this idea though. I must try to find out where it has come from. I'm beginning to feel OK about using the manual though because it's on the official website and I can't find anything on there about not using the illustrations even though it is an old manual which has been used for several years. It has the same content.

It's a year or two since I was in Primary but I have been asked to teach a CTR class next week as the regular teacher is on holiday. I was given the manual yesterday but discovered several pages throughout the book had been torn out and we couldn't find another one. I said no worries as I would get the lesson off the internet. It's about Baptism. The sister who had asked me to teach the lesson showed me some sharing time books on the subject in the cupboard but said I couldn't use them because they had cartoon drawings of the Saviour in them and hadn't been approved by the First Presidency. We are no longer allowed to use drawings of the Saviour in our lessons she said. I hadn't heard that. Back when I was in Primary we often had drawings of the Saviour and Heavenly Father in our lessons (things like the First Vision or Sermon on the Mount or Jesus in a fishing boat - all line drawings). Anyway I came home and found the lesson on the church website and the manual there with all the relevant pages, including a set of little drawings which it says to make a copy of to give to each child at the end of the lesson. The first of the drawings is of the Saviour! Now surely if the church had decreed we were no longer allowed to use drawings of the Saviour in our lessons it would not be publishing one on the official church website? There's even a button to click to get a larger image for printing off. I can't get in touch with the sister before next Sunday and I really don't know what to do now. Should I follow the manual or try to do the lesson without using the pictures? I don't want to be doing something which is disapproved of and yet I can't see how it can be wrong if it's in the current manual on the official website. Does anyone else here teach CTRs and what have you done when it comes to pictures of the Saviour in the manuals?

I want to brush up on my French becaue my OH wants to move there in 5 or 6 years. I also want to improve my German because my daughter's boyfreind is going to Germany on his mission soon.

That's easy enough for someone who can get to a temple where it is being shown.Our missionaries have seen it alittle while ago and said how wonderful it is but it is not being shown for ordinary members. I think the missioanries were even able to purchase a copy because they encouraged us to do so and were surprised to find that we were not able to.

I suppose I see it differently because here in England we do have some legislation against smoking in enclosed public places and I am glad that we do because it benefits the many non-smokers who no longer have to suffer from passive smoking and the stink which lingers in clothes and hair. I can now enjoy going out for an evening and/or for a meal without having to endure other people smoking. The ban also covers people in their own cars if those cars are used to tranport other people. It also covers some private rented homes if other people such as council employees need to enter them on business.

So it's a long-term health risk but it is still a health risk. Some people will tell you that their great uncle Henry smoked like a trooper and lived to be 93 but that doesn't alter the fact that smoking kills people. If someone smokes on a regular daily basis with their kids in the car isn't that repeated long term eposure? Or are we just dismissing this thread because of who it was started by? Maybe I'm biased because I have seen the positive effects such legislation has had in the UK.