Traveler
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Posts posted by Traveler
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15 hours ago, laronius said:
16 And Ammon said that a seer is a revelator and a prophet also; and a gift which is greater can no man have, except he should possess the power of God, which no man can; yet a man may have great power given him from God.
Any thoughts on this verse? ......
I am unable to address with any experience or knowledge concerning a seer and revelator beyond the rare experience of conversing with one. They are very guarded of the gift and will not speak to the gift directly – at least to me. Even when speaking of a subject they will not necessarily distinguish the line between what they have been commanded to reveal as a seer from what their personal opinion. I am of the opinion that it is up to the listener to understand through whatever the spirit can get through to them.
Both the Doctrine and Convenance and the Book of Mormon speak to the purpose of spiritual gifts. Other than the Apostles, I do not know of anyone that is given the gift of a seer and revelator, but all of humanity is given the gift to believe on their words – but not all will exercise their spiritual gifts.
The Traveler
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1 hour ago, Vort said:
FTR, I have nothing against beards, and I wouldn't mind a bit seeing BYU remove beard restrictions. Assuming the guys who wore beards actually took care of them and didn't look, well, um, like i would have looked if I had tried growing a beard in my early 20s.
I do not have much of an issue with anything except for the reason to do it in the first place. Nothing worthwhile can be accomplished without discipline. Jesus called his followers disciples. The word disciple has the same root meaning as discipline.
I think Sampson was the last one that grew hair as a discipline to please and covenant with G-d. Even then it became his downfall.
The Traveler
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3 hours ago, LDSGator said:
He’ll find a new position very quickly and this will not affect his life in the way you think it will.
The problem is that Jake was very familiar with the BYU play book and the weapons he had around him through his teammates with whom he had built a trusted and productive relationship. Even if Jake was to stay at BYU that trust would be affected. Now he must rebuild anew with a trust issue hanging over him and within a system with which he is not familiar.
This goes back to my white-water rafting experiences. Whatever has happened, the most important thing is to prepare for what is coming next. Regardless, failure with what just happened is often more of a challenge than the river. Causing whatever is next to become more daunting than it ought without repentance.
My personal experience is that repentance is much more of a hassle than whatever could possibly have come from whatever moment of indiscretion seemed worth it at the time. I will admit that often I have turned from something that I would have otherwise done – for no other reason than not wanting to go through the hassle of having to repent of it.
The Traveler
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The latest is that all the charges against Retzlaff have been dropped. However, there is still an honor code violation. Retzlaff has entered the transfer portal rather than be suspended for like half his senior season. I have several devout Jewish friends and know a few converts that previously were Jewish. Pre-marital sex is not a Jewish construct or value to be treated lightly. But like so many things in life – the consequence of a moment of indiscretion seems extremely harsh considering the life shattering effects this will have on the QB. But then there are some things that just seem trivial in the moment for so many that end up altering the trajectory of themselves and others – especially when repentance was not a consideration until the damage was out of hand.
The Traveler
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Thought I would add a few thoughts. I do love most of the old hymns. I feel bad that some time ago the hymn “Up Awake Ye Defenders of Zion” was dropped from the hymns and is no longer sung. I found the hymn on the internet, but the words have been slightly changed from the original. For example – I recall the words, “Rember the wrongs of Missouri; Forget not the fate of Nauvoo. When the G-d hating foe is before you,”. Perhaps the original words are too offensive now days.
My current ward has a struggling choir. We have some fantastic talent in the ward, but the ward is getting old and none of us (especially me) have the range we once had. The current choir director loves to perform these crazy difficult and technical numbers that takes us months to learn. I suggested that we sing the new hymns so that whenever the congregation sings them – someone in the congregation knows them and we have some semblance of parts and harmony. I do not think our choir directors likes them much either.
The Traveler
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6 hours ago, mirkwood said:
I don't think lone wolf attacks are related directly to the activities of secret combinations.
Obviously, you are the most experienced on this forum. What do you find is the most common denominator that tips the scales to turn someone homicidal?
The Traveler
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We seem to have ever increased crimes of violence by what is being labeled a lone wolf. I have pondered how this is possible, especially when there seems to be a great deal of connecting similarity running across these acts. It has become also apparent to me that the acts of violence in the Book of Mormon by various members of Secret Combinations seeking greater power for themselves (some failing and some succeeding) appear as lone wolf incidents. So I wonder, are these acts an indication of increasing influence of secret combinations in our society?
The Traveler
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16 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:
Gotta take issue with that. I mean yes, our central focus must be on the Gospel of Christ. That comes with loving our neighbor and a focus on missionary work. So we owe it to our neighbors to do good missionary work.
My favorite quote on the relevance of apologetics: "Though argument does not create conviction, the lack of it destroys belief. What seems to be proved may not be embraced; but what no one shows the ability to defend is quickly abandoned. Rational argument does not create belief, but it maintains a climate in which belief may flourish."
The least impressive, least impactful people on my spiritual journey have been the ones who stick their fingers in their ears and refuse to interact with criticisms of my faith. Most of the most impactful ones have boldly interacted with the criticism, restating it in the best most powerful way possible, and then refuting it with truth and reason.
I'm still a fan of 1 Peter 3:15: But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear
There are an awful lot of people asking me my reasons for the hope that is in me, even though [polygamy/archaeology/dna/kirtland banking/etc ad nauseum].
So if it's ok with y'all, I'll both hold to the Gospel of Christ, AND engage in apologetics on occasion.
Let’s reference scripture to see how Jesus avoided apologetics and at the same time used logic and reason to give witness to the Gospel of Christ. This method of dealing with criticism seems to me to a major factor in the Gospel of John. Take a look at John 10 starting with verse 22.
A little side note here. In the King James version, there is a ¶ symbol at the beginning of verse 22. This is to designate a literary structure within the chapter that then extends to the end of that chapter.
Verses 32 and 33 show the stark difference in how Jesus logically defends himself and how his “enemies” accuse him. One being Jesus’s reference to his obedience to the law (works) and the Jews accusation of false or blasphemous doctrine. Explicit to this accusation is a doctrine of a man becoming a G-d. One reason I use this scripture reference is because this is perhaps one of the main doctrines that accusers argue against the theology of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Note that Jesus did not convert his distractors but that he used that moment to draw others listening to his teachings. I believe it was the reason that John was inspired to include this event the way he did in scripture. And yet in 2,000 years the argument from distractors have not changed. Let us live according to our laws, ordinances and covenants and let that witness be the prime answer to our critics.
The Traveler
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There are some obvious things missing in the translation. The term Christ is from the Greek. The Hebrew term translated into English is Messiah. Both are in reference to “the anointed one”. There is still some confusion that has arisen from the Dead Sea Scriptures that there may be more than one “the anointed one”.
There are so many ways that the ancient scripture text cause confusion, but one thing we can understand through the restoration (especially temple revelation) is that all of G-d’s covenant saints are anointed. The ordinance of anointing is a precursor on the covenant path to a “oneness” with the Christ – who is also one with the Father, thus resulting in the Saints becoming one with G-d. Of course, the traditional and creedal Christians are lost in a labyrinth of teachings that amount to the philosophies of men mingled with scripture.
The Biblical Book of Isaiah speaks clearly to the concept of apostasy and restoration. The history of apostasy and restoration from Jesus to today clearly follows the type and shadow of Isaiah but is lost to most modern Christians. Why? Because as the apostasy took place, the Christians of the apostasy forgot Isaiah and thought that apostasy was a heresy or a change of doctrine. Isaiah clearly taught that man becomes separated from G-d through transgression of the law, changing the ordinances and breaking the everlasting covenant.
If one uses the internet to investigate why LDS are excluded from those “Traditional” and “Creedal” Christians, you will find that it is always because of a doctrine that they claim is heresy. And because of what they claim is heresy, the claim is, that LDS worship a “different” Jesus.
As LDS we ought to be careful and mindful not to fall into the trap of apologetics of doctrine and instead hold to the Gospel of Christ. Which is to love one another, have faith in Jesus Christ (which is the foundation of the law), be baptized by one authorized by Christ (which prevents changing the ordinances) and keeping the everlasting covenant (which is solemnized in the temple of G-d).
The Traveler
- HaggisShuu, zil2, laronius and 2 others
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There is some feelings of relief that the wars of Islamic societies against Israel (Jews) is over or coming to an end. I am impressed that this is not the case at all. That there is, somewhat in secret and in public, a growing aggression of war against Israel. That we are seeing prophesy coming to pass. I am concerned about the acquisition of one or more nuclear devices by Iran.
There is more than one way this could occur. The first is that Iran finds a way to renew their internal efforts to enrich uranium. Another is that sufficient plutonium isotope 238 was secured prior to the destruction of Iran’s nuclear facilities. Another possibility is that nuclear nations sympathetic to Iran provide them with the necessary additions of the plutonium isotope 238. Both Russia and Pakistan have shown interest in providing Iran with what is needed to complete their desire for nuclear capability. There is also the possibility of North Korea and China being involved in the mix.
Iran has their network of proxies to assist in deliverance of a nuclear device – some secret sleeper cells may be already in the USA preparing for such. Iran is close enough to Israel that there could be several possibilities to deliver a nuclear device in Israel. In essence, it is possible that there is a multi teared levels of proxies and a willing to use such a terror network to deliver a nuclear device to Israel or the USA by a large variety of possibilities.
We are specifically warned in our revelations of restoration (D&C) that the greatest threat to the USA will not be foreign but will be within the boundaries of the USA and in the hearts of individuals that seek to destroy liberty and freedom. The alarm is not so much to fear our enemies as it is to have faith in Christ to preserve his Saints that stand together to uphold their covenants and laws as instructed in our temples (stand in holy places).
The Traveler
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For some reason I was pondering this notion of dusting one’s shoes as a witness. Actually, I was pondering the law of witnesses – specifically as it relates to family and the commandment that a husband and wife become one.
While pondering I was given the strong impression that missionaries are sent in tandem that there will be two witnesses unite as one to the testimonies that they bear. Likewise, if their testimonies are rejected such that there is an effort to harm the witnesses or pronounce witness against those that witness the truthfulness of the Gospel of Christ – then as a witness of such things before G-d the missionaries can provide a final witness against the offenders.
The purpose of this is an act of love that no more light of Christ shine to bring condemnation upon the offenders. However, we need recognize that without the light of Christ defending them against the adversary they are open to the buffetings of Satan.
The Traveler
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Some points to my friends @NeuroTypical , @Phoenix_person, @LDSGator and others. There are two primary necessities missing from our government to realistically qualify as a democratic republic. First is a clear understanding of the agendas of individuals running for elected office. AND second is a reliable method of securing and counting legal ballets.
I left the republican party because of these two factors that the republican party was deliberately throttling both of the two principles of a democratic republic mentioned above. I worked desperately to become a democrat only to discover that the democratic party leaders (especially at the federal level) were exponentially worse.
The Traveler
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4 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:
The problem in the United States is not so much Capitalism, but Corporatism and Monopolism rather than Capitalism. Unfortunately, in many instances, Capitalism evolves into Corporatism and Monopolism as the "Survival of the Fittest" edges away the smaller companies, companies merge and giant corporations that have far more power than any other business emerge.
When we have companies that engulf such a large amount of sales such as Amazon and Walmart in comparison to other companies, such as Mom and Pop shops, the ability those corporations have to affect government and the economy far outscales anything that normal Capitalism can compete with.
In order to have a real capitalistic society, social controls over how large corporations, companies, and co-ops can get must be written and legally enforced.
The problem we have had is that these laws have been slowly eroded over the past half century, where as at the same time a great reluctance to enforce anti-monopoly laws have crippled our government in regards to stopping such corporatism from taking place.
Part of this is that we see benefits of having large companies control large swathes of our economy in relation to others (an China took note and has attempted a very similar thing, which we can see it's impact on us today).
An example...
Microsoft, though we took a soft punch at it over two decades ago, never really got broken as a Monopoly. As a result, though other systems are utlized, on the desktop environment, over 75% of the computers worldwide (this does not include phones or tablets, just the desktop and PC environments which we use in such places as schools, offices, etc) still dominate the OS. Thus, ideas such as forced updates, forced creation of accounts, and other things just to unlock our computers to use for the first time are the norm, because all those things are on Windows. Linux, Unix, and other OS's, despite having better ways to do things in these areas are largely not utilized due to Windows dominance. In essence, the competition is not ideal. There is no real capitalism in this environment.
Some would say it is a good thing, as we have more universal usage and commonality. It has allowed the United States to control the computer environment (and now along with Apple, even greater control with the phones and tablets) of the world. However, in regards to capitalism, Capitalism is dead in this arena, and has been for decades. If it were alive and well, the US may not have the control it does over these environments throughout the world.
If we want Capitalism, than we have to enable capitalism to exist, rather than allowing companies to have basic monopolies in certain areas. Many do not see the advantages of it in relation to where we stand today in regards to the Corporatism that has engulfed this nation.
Much of the problems people try to point out regarding Capitalism in the United States is not so much a result of Capitalism itself, but Corporatism and Monopolism in regards to their impact on our Government and Economy.
One of the problems we have with our fallen mortality state is that nothing is exempt from corruption. There are advantages to corporations, even large corporations. I used to work in the corporate environment. Because of their vast resources that were made available to me I was able to develop new technologies for patents. Because of the sophistication of the technologies, there was no way possible I could have done it on my own with my own resources.
In my mind this is a most important reason that the USA has been at the forefront of technological development. But there are unfortunate and unforeseen problems, especially in the effort to globalize manufacturing and economic development. I will give a theoretical example. To be more competitive a corporation decides to move manufacturing overseas to cut labor costs. In the short run this works great but there are two levels of engineering that begin to suffer. First is manufacturing engineering to improve the process which must include the supply chain and distribution with the manufacturing. The second is the R&D to improve and redesign the products. Many corporate heads confuse the first engineering process as a management function – in reality it is both. Regardless, the management begins to realize that engineering needs to be local to manufacturing. Eventually, it is learned that management needs local involvement as well.
All this is just a small part of what is affected. There is aftermarket maintenance for products. If the market is outside of the manufacturing landscape, then there are technical problems with maintenance. And education of the next generation has an impact. There is no reason to educate for jobs that are diminishing or gone. As much as I hate to admit it – it sure appears to me that Trump is one of the few politicians in many decades that seems to have a clue what is going on with education, engineering, manufacturing, management and markets.
I finished my professional career as a consultant as an expert in industrial automation, robotics and artificial intelligence. I can say with some authority and experience that the biggest problem in the corporate environment is the elite educated management that is primarily driven by short-term, bottom-line capitol gains.
I will not comment on Microsoft because I believe that Mr. Gates belongs in prison.
The Traveler
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19 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:
I hear you loud and clear. Most of us on the left are very clear on the fact that capitalism cannot be abolished except through tyranny, and 99% of us aren't willing to cross that line. We also believe that there are aspects of socialism that are fully compatible with a core capitalist system. As I said, many of our capitalist allies are far more socialist than we are. People like me are just trying to reform the system we have, not build a new one from scratch. We reject the notion that we "have to" do xyz because it's always been so. The "least bad" option still has room to improve without disrupting its fundamental infrastructure.
What many do not understand is how authoritarian systems breed corruption. True capitalism requires competition, but corruption always bleeds off the top of the economic resources destroying competitiveness.
As odd as it may seem, capitalism, though seemingly less efficient, always produces competition which makes everything in an economy incentivized. Without incentive nothing will happen. The only reason water flows downhill is because it is incentivized to do so by gravity.
The problem with capitalism is the unfit to contribute to the economic benefits in society. This is the only argument of all other economic systems over capitalism. What is left out and forgotten is the religious notion of charity and compassion. Forced charity and compassion is not charity nor compassion and is driven more by elitism than any actual caring. The hard-core reality is what the Book of Mormon always teaches – nothing prospers without the notion of a charitable G-d that rewards in eternity those that lovingly care for the indigent that cannot care for themselves.
The Traveler
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1 hour ago, Phoenix_person said:
So your argument against an entire (and predominantly peaceful) religion is that the Ottoman Empire was pro-slavery in *checks notes* 1788? I wonder who else was pro-slavery back then....
The fact that our slaves were African tribesman instead of white westerners doesn't make our position any more morally right than the Ottomans. Try again.
This is not exactly and entirely true. I am very white (blond and blue eyed) mostly from Scandinavia. I am descended from a white slave in the Americas named George Darling. It is true that the vast majority of slaves were black from Africa, but it is not true that they were the only slaves being traded in the slave markets. The other critical bit of historical information is that there were no white slavers in Africa.
The history of slavery is that various cultures made slaves of the other cultures they conquered. Strange as it may seem, the first cultures taken into slavery were the closest cultures to the most powerful waring cultures. Historically these were the most genetically and otherwise similar cultures. The history of slavery was never really about racism, as it was about class warfare.
It should also be noted that western civilization was the first to politically abolish slavery. Well, sort of the first, if you exclude the progressive political support for human trafficking (though such support is mostly indirect) – that I believe is the modern version of slavery. Who else will supply the labor for our agriculture, hospitality, restaurant and recreational industries (do the work we sophisticated upper class are above doing). The mentality of bigotry seldom changes.
Even the native populations, long before Europeans even discovered the Americas engaged in slavery as a standard practice. The concepts of slavery seem to resurface in the strangest of ways. For example, there are efforts from blacks to enslave everybody else in America in a modest element of slavery called reparations.
It is my theory that the worse kind of bigotry is about being oppressive in the now – using history as the excuse. In LDS theology oppressions is always evil and is made a greater evil with the excuse of revenge.
The Traveler
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9 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:
Ok. So they think we're satan because of compound interest.
Other things to understand about them:
- In a world where you only need 20% enriched uranium to run a nuclear energy industry, they have stockpiles of 60% enriched uranium.
- Enriching to 20% is relatively easy, enriching to 60% is relatively hard, and then getting from 60 to 90 is pretty quick and easy. 90% is weapons grade.
- Iran has a space program full of dual-use technology easily used for ICBMs.
- The govt of Iran has overflowed with rhetoric for a long time about destroying Israel and the US with nuclear fire.
- The govt of Iran has a long history of killing Americans and Israelis. And supporting terrorist proxies that try to kill Americans and Israelis.Anything else we need to understand about the danger from our understood enemy that we're understanding?
I'm reminded of the parts of the Book of Mormon that had the good guy Nephites use spycraft and deception in order to destroy their enemy in combat. I mean, I yearn for the day when Christ will return and become the government, and we won't have to worry about neighbors that want to kill all of us and are actively engaging in doing so, as well as building better ways to do so. But until then, I gotta live in the world I live in.
Not every Muslem hates us. Not everybody in Iran is following the hard lines of Ayatollah. Having spent time with those of Islamic belief, I realize that, especially we LDS, have much in which we can find common ground, but we need to know how to address it. The Book of Mormon encourages us that teaching the principles of the gospel are more powerful than the sword. I submit that seeking for worldly wealth is counter to the gospel of Christ.
The Traveler
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4 hours ago, mirkwood said:
- Iran is the biggest State supporter of terrorism
- Iran is theologically opposed to the existence of Israel (the Little Satan)
- Iran views the USA as the Great Satan
- The religious leaders of Iran will never not be at war with the two Satans
I am of the opinion that we ought to understand all we can about those that see us as their enemy. There are strong elements of both literal and symbolic representations of Satan in Islam that relate to finances. According to Islam the #1 sign of Satanic control is finances (banking) with compound interest. The USA is considered the “biggest” force in the world behind banking and finances based in compound interest. Israel (Jews) are considered to be greatly involved in global banking.
I do agree with Islam that compound interest is the greatest force of greed in modern societies. What I do not agree with in the efforts of the leader of Iran is their efforts and focus on citizens of society that are not wealthy because of compound interest but rather are somewhat in financial bondage (for example mortgages) because of compound interest. We should oppose those whose politics and whose life’s work is based in greed and not, in any way, take out our frustrations towards greed on those caught in the oppression of compound interest.
Without this understanding – I do not believe we will make any progress in settling the problems of the Middle East. But then, I do not believe things will get better as a trend until Christ comes in power and glory. The best we can do is seek to build Zion. But being a “Zionists” makes you a target – not just in the Middle East but by those of Babylon throughout the world. I would suggest anyone involved with Zion, do so fully without any reservations.
The Traveler
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1 hour ago, mikbone said:
Maybe Trump should send some bombers to Russia too?
Spread some world peace while we are at it.
Unfortunately, Russia has nukes – lots and lots of them. Enough that it does not really matter if they never even hit any intended targets.
The Traveler
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There are several ways to collapse a power grid. I do not want to say too much to give any shady elements ideas. But there are certain critical elements of our power grid that are difficult to replace because we no longer make such things here in the USA. If someone knew what they were doing, they could take down large sectors of our grid that would take years to replace and get back up.
There are other soft targets in our utilities such as water, sewer, natural gas, public transportation in densely populated areas and things like fire protection and health services to name some of many possibilities. We have seen in Hawaii and California how fire mitigation can be overrun. I think we have been blessed that such minds had relied mostly on turning demonstrations into riots, break-ins and property destruction. Such things can be turned into civil war and regime collapse (local, state or federal).
Currently drugs and human trafficking (an alternate term for slavery) are mostly underground and still considered unlawful but somewhat ignored in highly progressive cities and states. I am under the impression that such activities are mostly supported or allowed for profit, but all such vices can be utilized by foreign interest to create havoc with our freedoms and liberties.
@zil2 is right to realize the problems emphasized in the Book of Mormon with the failing societies of the Nephites and Jaredites. The failure to be moral and law abiding is never a good idea. To quote Alma with a twist of my own, “Wickedness never was happiness – but it was sure fun while it lasted.”
The Traveler
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1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:
Golden Dome is all about that particular threat.
I'm a little worried about an EMP attack, but I'm more worried about shipping containers of drones heading to random cities and popping off all at once.
A number of years ago I met with FBI agents about a scheme that could be carried out by a sleeper cell of no more than 5 individuals with access to minimal critical resources that could carry out a clandestine operation that could kill as many as 20 million unsuspected civilian men women and children. We are a very vulnerable society because of our liberties and access to vast resources. There are estimated 2 million got-a-ways just from the Biden administration alone. Every effort by the Trump administration to mitigate “peaceful” but unvetted immigrants is being throated by every means possible by the majority of democrats in the house, Senate and left leaning judges.
Our little planet also resides in the vicinity of a sun that quite regularly experiences both super massive solar flairs and super massive coronial ejections – either of which if ever pointed directly at earth would globally wipe out all electrical components – including power lines and household wiring. We know that such events have happened to earth in the not to distant past but because our dependence on electricity is less than 150 years ago – beyond which there was no noticeable impact. A super massive coronial ejection will also carry with it other problems beyond electricial.
I am of the mind that we are literally held by G-d in the palm of his hand. I believe that having faith in Jesus Christ is critical for all things to turn for our good. However, I still remain more concerned with the hearts and minds of individuals in our own country – especially of our elected and appointed officials as well as critical bureaucrats in our great nation. I am particularly concerned with the resistance of transparent audits of funds spent and actions being taken. For those interested – here is a link to H.R.1 – One Big Beautiful Bill Act https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/1/text
Good luck figuring it all out if you can spare the time to read all of it. At least it is available.
The Traveler
- zil2 and NeuroTypical
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Not so long ago Iran and Iraq were at war. Iraq was much better armed and prepared and decimated Iran, but Iran refused to surrender. Iran is roughly 3 times the land mass size and had more resources and population. Attrition began to wear on Iraq, and they began to withdraw leaving behind vast areas filled with land mines. Iran had children run through the mine fields promising the children and their families places in heaven for their sacrifices. This conflict never ended but came to kind of a draw. There were claims that Iraq used weapons of mass destruction as part of the justification of “Desert Storm”.
I have no idea how this current conflict in Iran will end, but I think there is a lot more going on than meets the eye. Especially our wester eye and its western view. I agree with @JohnsonJones that we had no choice.
Beyond all this there is something that concerns me more. As I am reading along with this year’s study of the Doctrine and Covenants – I read how there will be wars in many far away countries. However, I think that what comes next in the D&C is more of a concern. We are told that we “know not the hearts of many in our own country.” I think this is the most important part of the prophetic warning.
Currently the hearts and minds of our country are critically divided. There is nothing our leaders (republican or democrat) seam to be about without the other lashing out against with great anger and disgust. Our politicians have become the targets of assassins, and yet the hateful rhetoric continues, each blaming the other. The obvious weakness and greatest vulnerability of the USA is our mistrust and hatred of each other – especially against whoever is in power.
So great is the hatred that many, otherwise calm, cannot contain their anger and mistrust of the other. Though the secret combinations ignited the great war that destroyed the Nephites it was, in the end, the anger, lust for blood and the unceasing desire for revenge that destroyed the Nephites – as well as the Jaredites. I have two, beloved to me, brothers that the very mention of “Trump” sends them into fits of rage.
The one thing I learned while in the army during the Vietnam conflict is that regardless of how stupid, foolish or sick and wrong the orders were or seemed to be – not acting together as a united unit was the quickest route to failure and the best way to lose a battle.
The Traveler
- NeuroTypical, zil2, mirkwood and 1 other
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Just my opinion. Nothing is clear that comes from G-d, with the exception of the righteous (in other words – those that seek and keep G-d’s covenants. And even then, I believe the only reason things become clear is because of the gift and covenant of the Holy Ghost. But we are not done yet, the clearness seems to me to come step by step by step, line upon line upon line and precept upon precept upon precept.
I cannot say that what is going on the Armageddon. But here is a thought. I have visited Israel. One of the places that I went was to the valley of Armageddon (also known as Megiddo and the Jezreel Valley). My guide, an LDS Israeli citizen informed me that there has never in the history of Israel (both ancient and modern) has a battle been fought in the valley of Armageddon (Megiddo). The significance of Armageddon (Megiddo) is that this is where Israel would gather all the warriors from all the tribes to prepare for war and to begin their campaign to meet their enemies.
Here is a map:
The Traveler
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On 6/19/2025 at 1:15 PM, Carborendum said:
I wonder if we're looking too much at a microscopic level. As Americans, we're used to wars starting suddenly and then ending in a few years.
- Shot heard 'round the world
- Chesapeake and Delaware
- Ft Sumter
- The Lusitania
- Pearl Harbor
- 38th Parallel
- Gulf of Tonkin
- 9-11
What if it is all just one very long war? What if the battlefield of societies and planets is bigger than the few plots of land and a few politicians that we tend to think about?
What if all the end times prophecies are ...being... fulfilled. But the complete fulfillment of the prophecy is to come to fruition over the course of centuries? Maybe we still have another century or two before Christ comes again.
1. The Jews have gathered in the land of Israel. It happened before I was born. But it did not happen for over 1500 years.
2. I believe that the lowered fertility rates we've seen in recent decades is very much a part of the "death" (death, disease, famine, and war).
- Sterilizing children and adults.
- Abortion
- Birth control pills and abortion pills are now being suspected of contaminating the water supply in developed nations, to the point that we have more miscarriages and infertility.
3. From Ezekiel:
- Iran is literally Persia.
- Gog and Magog seem like Lebanon and Hezbollah.
- Gomer and Togarmah are modern Anatolia & Turkey.
- Sheba, and Dedan fit well with Lybia and Ethiopia (which are also mentioned elsewhere).
- Meshech and Tubal are also a part of modern Turkey.
4. The Constitution shall hang by a thread.
Does anyone really believe we have another century as the nation we've grown up in? I'd like to think we do. But probabilities??? We'll see.
Is it strange that while we focus on the Jews returning to their homeland, that we didn't notice how many Muslims were chased out of the boundaries of the Ottoman Empire since Columbus. The first sign of decline for the Ottomans was that Spain chased out the Ottomans in the same year that Columbus set sail. Does that sound coincidental to anyone else?
The thing is that it has been going on for quite some time, right under our noses. The Lord's timetable is much longer than ours. We expect it to happen all in a few years like so many wars we've known.
What if the fulfillment of end times prophecies has already begun centuries ago, and we still have a couple centuries for it to complete? Sounds like a burning to me.
A couple of notes from my personal impressions:
1. Seldom are prophetic signs given that are recognized by anyone until the event occurs or after the event.
2. Many scholars identify the region of Magog near the Black Sea, somewhere associated with Northeaster Türkiye, Azerbaijan, Georgia and the southernmost reaches of Russia. This is also close to where some Islamic scholars predict the califate will arise that with start the end of times Jihad against the infidels and enemies of Islam. I was concerned that the political ties with Russia and Iran could be a beginning of the Biblical (and Muslims) Gog and Magog.
3. I believe that the LDS general authorities recognize the restoration as the most pronounced prophetic sign of the end of times (why the church is specifically designated with the title "Latter-day Saints". Also, since the Book of Revelation speaks of 7 seals – I doubt that there much left of the prophetic pre-millennial signs. It may be possible that there is less that 2 years left. I am waiting to see what happens over the next 3 months. Especially concerning Israel and what is now going on in Iran and then what happens with Russia – Ukraine conflict (especially the most disputed areas in eastern Ukraine.
The Traveler
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So, my question for @Carborendum and @LDSGator– is anything currently going on a fulfillment of end of times prophesy? Any more than at any other time?
I would submit that the gathering of Jews in Israel (Zionism) and the opposition to that gathering is a prime and significant fulfillment of a great many prophecies concerning the end of times.
Here is a thought concerning the last conflict (Armageddon). It has to do with a burning that would go on for a number of years. I had speculated that such a burning was an indication of nuclear armaments being utilized in battle – is it possible this is incorrect - rather that the burning is the result of nuclear facilities being blown up and/or destroyed?
The Traveler
Christology in the Book of Mormon
in LDS Gospel Discussion
Posted
I think to address your thought. I will reference Abraham 3 and Doctrine and Convenance 88. The reason I use the references of Abraham 3 and Doctrine and Convenance is because the thoughts are in essence the same revelation. One given to Abraham (in his day and time) and his ancient understanding of the universe – the other is given through Joseph Smith (in his day and time of Newtonian physics) and his understanding of the universe.
Isaiah speaks of line upon line upon line and precept upon precept upon precept. We all understand through the spirit that which we are able to understand.
The Book of Momon is written for our time to prepare from the coming of the Messiah. But it was written by prophets of a different language, culture and society. I would like to think I have it all together but as the revelations and prophecies take place, I am somewhat dumfounded with what I thought I knew from how things actually turn out. I end up going back to the Book of Mormon amazed to discover what I missed.
The Traveler