Traveler

We really are not that different in our beliefs. The question is where does our will come from? We both believe that our will is not a product of G-d. I will put this another way. Our individual uniqueness is a product of something G-d did not create. The question is why? I believe that our uniqueness (will) as an individual has always existed and cannot be created. In short it was something that existed before G-d’s creation and defines us after. That G-d created something for that uniqueness to act upon and become a being in the image and likeness of G-d. Of course, there is a lot more to this than what we have discussed but for the core or our discussion this is important to understand before diving deeper. I see this statement as somewhat problematic. To explain, let’s be a little more dramatic. Instead of using the example of your money let us use someone else's life. This should make the point a little clearer. - - -> If you know your sister will kill someone and you do nothing to stop that murder – you are culpable. Under our law (that I believe on this point your culpability is just) you are an accessory to the crime. It is my belief that there is a divine solution to this – but to get there, I believe we have to understand justice and what it demands. Again thanks for allowing me to express my concerns and understanding. I can suggest that you copy the text uxing the + sign. Then you can make several blank lines in your post and put the material copied with the + anywhere you want. There may be other ways - I am not 100% sure of your question. The Traveler

I believe that Jesus Christ (Jehovah) was exalted in the pre-existence (first estate). Several reasons – here are a few: The name or title of Jehovah implies exaltation as does the title “The Son” as a reference to one of three exalted entities of the G-dhead. We are also given understanding that the creation was carried out by G-d which is spoken of by John as the “Word”. Nephi gives witness of the condescension of G-d to come and walk among men to suffer even unto death to redeem mankind. The Traveler

First off, I do appreciate your opinion and attempts to answer. I am having trouble with your logic. Police did not create anyone’s ability to drive or speed. Obviously, G-d created many creatures, and no other creatures are condemned or rewarded by G-d for their choices – good or bad. The only way I can conclude that G-d is not responsible is if there was something over which both he did not create and does not control. Some may argue that G-d could create something that he did not control so he is not really responsible. But there is another factor in that G-d knows exactly what his creations will do and what the result is so the argument that He has no control over the results mute. The reason that I have difficulty accepting the standard Traditional Christian doctrine of G-d and creation is that the logic of faith in something that is not responsible for what they alone do and think it just makes no sense. I do not like or adhere to the arguments of modern apologist that claim that they are only what G-d made them to be. The argument would be valid and G-d responsible, if creation was from nothing. On the other hand, if each individual’s uniqueness is something that G-d does not control nor create – then and only then is G-d not responsible. I would add something after re-reading your quoted statement above. You say G-d did not create free will that chooses poorly because that would be predestination. How then is it possible thatd anyone chooses poorly? Why are some able to choose better than others? What was created to cause a difference? and by who?

In essence you would be waving a magic wand if you believe that G-d created everything from nothing – including the free will of man to choose between good and evil, and then judges man for choosing poorly. The magic wand would be that G-d creates some with free will to chose better than others – and yet G-d is not in any way responsible for creating individuals with a free will that chooses poorly. Like the person that says that 12 + 13 = 20 because if 12 + 13 = 25 they are stuck with an answer that does not fit their narrative. The Traveler

I think it depends on how we define cheat. If we include what our prophets have said concerning pornography – men are much more likely to become involved in attempts to cheat on the law of chastity. I am inclined to believe that a great deal of the problems surfacing in our generation’s confusion of gender is strongly rooted in pornography and its rippling effect throughout society. I do not think that the prophesy in Isaiah has been fulfilled yet. Until it is fulfilled, speculations are unlikely to be sufficiently accurate. It is possible (see chapter 3) that the beginning of chapter 4 is speaking specifically of the daughters of Zion. If chapter 3 is relevant, then a goodly number of men (men of Zion?) will be killed in war time battles. What is currently going on in Israel may be critical to this discussion. The Traveler

I am of the opinion that few things of this life are as they appear. I had a younger brother that grew up mostly after I had left home (and moved far away from my family). I only knew him while he was a child. He died in an accident a few months after he returned home from his mission. His death was particularly hard on my parents. During my younger brother’s funeral, I had an experience that is somewhat difficult to explain. My brother came to me and communicated with me – it was a profound spiritual experience for me. I learned that our mortal existence has what I would best describe as presets. One of the major presets is the time of our death. On rare occasions there can be an extension or contraction concerning our time of death pending on circumstances. Many sorrowed for my brother thinking that his time on earth had been shortened. I learned that his time had been extended to serve a mission. I inquired why my brother came to me rather than my parents or other family members. I learned that the reason was because our parents and other family members were too stricken with grief and my brother could not connect with them. I was to let them know that my brother was blessed to fulfill a mission. Also, that he was about a good work and would not be denied any blessings and should not be mourned for dying young. It took several years for my parents to be comforted. Like the song “Come Come Ye Saints”, And if we die before our journey {seems} through – Happy Day, all is well. The Traveler

Why do you not have any doubt in your statement: "We all have doubts."? The Traveler

Do you believe G-d created everything from nothing and is responsible and accountable for all that he creates? (everything that exists?) The Traveler

The symbol is the dung beetle or scarab. Very important in Egypt The Traveler

I am studying the Book of Mormon based on a particular Egyptian concept. There is an Egyptian g-d called Khepri that is represented by a dung beetle. Generally, this is a representation of the rising or morning sun. Also, creation or the renewal of life (including resurrection). In the most general sense Kheper could stand for divinely inspired change or happening. Perhaps the most accurate translation into English would be, “And it came to pass”. As I map out all the phrases, “And it came to pass”, I am linking it to the change that occurred and the results or consequences. This gives significant insight to how G-d influences those that keep His commandments as well as those that spurn Him and His commandments. Perhaps this is just a little thing to consider but it brings a strong witness (evidence) of the divinity of the Book of Mormon to me – especially considering that none of this was known when Joseph Smith brought froth this much needed scripture for the latter-days. This offen bit of criticism of the Book of Mormon has, over time, become a strong witness (evidence) of its authenticity. The Traveler

My dear friend @prisonchaplain: When we begin a logic journey we begin with assumed assumptions. There is a problem with assuming ExNhilo creation as an initial condition. Other than that, your arguments about G-d foreknowledge and predestination would have some credit. But if there was nothing prior to creation (ex nhilo) then all that exists after creation is the result of G-d’s creation and therefore his responsibility. This of necessity, would also include whatever else happens because of what is done by any of his creations – for as long as such creations exist. For example, your statement, “He certainly did not predestine sin.” If there is a creation ex nhilo then the only possible reason that sin is possible is because G-d created both sin and all the possibilities of sin. Especially if he knew exactly and preciously what would happen because sin was created and made possible and yet he determined to create something that previously did not exist or have any possibility. If He did not pre-determine results from his ex nhilo creation – the only possible conclusion is that He really did not know what would be the results of his ex nhilo creation. If there is no predestination the only possible logical reason would have to be that something existed prior to the creation over which G-d had or has no control. For example – sin and human’s free will. If G-d has total and complete power over sin and humanities free will then whatever happens because of sin and humanities free will is His responsibility alone. I realize that many Traditional Christians want to wave a magic wand and say G-d can create whatever He wants and because he is G-d, He can blame whoever and or whatever He wants. But for me, such logic leaves me with no other option other than to proclaim that I do not believe in such a G-d – nor do I believe such to be intelligent or possible or for that manner reliable and worthy of faith. This all may sound harsh but for me – I believe in a G-d that sacrifices Himself to provide those that love him the power to overcome sin – which is something that otherwise will continue because it existed prior to creation had G-d offering is the only method to defeat sin. The Traveler

Greetings and welcome @Looking for help : I am a retired scientist and engineer from the field of industrial automation, robotics and artificial intelligence. I am dyslectic and have difficulty understanding anything to be real that is not logical and the result of logic. As a scientist, I do not find any logic to support believe in anything being random – only that random is an arrogant excuse for not understanding the cause – this includes quantum physics. Our universe is hostile to life as we know it here on earth and as, yet we have not found any possibility for intelligent life (as we know it) to exist anywhere else – let alone evolve. There is a second law of thermodynamics that asserts that complex orders – especially evolving from singularity is a scientific impossibility. I would submit that the only possibility to the simplistic uniform order of our complex universe is the result of intelligent cause. That the complexity of the simplistic order of our solar system resulting in life on earth is as much evidence of intelligence as finding a working clock in the middle of a barren desert. Even if we suppose that there is no G-d and that intelligent life is the evolutionary result of some random chance – science dictates two important principles. Anything that can or does happen can be engineered to happen. In other words, anything that can happen by some chance can be intelligently duplicated and caused to happen. The second principle is that if intelligent life can evolve – that intelligent life can evolve to eventually intelligently duplicate anything that has happened. This means that even if there is no G-d one must accept that if evolution is possible - it is inevitable that intelligence would evolve the capabilities of G-d. Thus, by the principle of Occam’s razor G-d must exist because science and evolution demands it as a possibility. As a covenant member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints – I have come to the conclusion (as an explanation of why) that only in the LDS teaching do we find sufficient explanation for why in life. That there was a pre-existence (first estate) where each individual human life on planet earth was planned and that there is an estate beyond death where all things are reconciled. Otherwise, there is no reason to believe in intelligence, justice, liberty or freedom unless there is a pre-existence and an existence after death. There is no reason to believe in any purpose, logic, science, coincidence, hope or reason for concern for global warming, politics, education, love or knowledge unliess intelligence is trancendent. There is no logic to birth as a beginning of intelligence or death as an end of intelligence. The Traveler

A lot of math scholars will joke about the difference between mathematical theorist and mathematical application. The jokes usually go around the theoretical mathematicians being sorely disappointed whenever some low-level mathematician (engineer) finds an application (or a new application) for their pure unadulterated theory. Personally, I have always been an advocate of the “Keep it simple – stupid” or KISS theory of approach to anything. Parentheses are an integral part of mathematical theory (across all variations of mathematical theory). I believe children ought to be taught to properly avoid ambiguity and always use parenthesis to properly express mathematical thinking and process. I believe the proper use of mathematics will always produce a singularity of answer and that this proper use best defines true science (such as the various engineering disciplines) – unlike the pseudo sciences that produce a variety of answers to please the various students (such as psychology and various therapies). Clear thinkers produce clear thinking and results and leave uncertainty to those that love uncertainty and uncertain results. The Traveler

Preparing for what is coming next! The Traveler

Not just members. When the Saints were forced from the United States into the western wilderness territories not one of the witnesses to the Book of Mormon went with them. A few had died but the vast majority of the witnesses fell away -- Including the counselors of the first presidency and half of the quorum of the 12. We often wonder why people fall away from the counsel of prophets. It seems as though all the prophets have delt with criticism and apostasy. In the councils of heaven even G-d the Father and Christ were criticized, and many fell away – including the one known as the Bearer of Light. I have my own opinion about why – and it has nothing to do with the Church (Kingdom of G-d) or the Citizens (Member and Saints). It is about Agency, personal desires and unwillingness to sacrifice. The Traveler

I have gone through phases in my life. I played guitar with a group in college. I still play some to relax but as I have gotten older my hands do not work our as well as they use to. On occasions I will still play for my wife. I have always enjoyed the outdoors. When I was younger, I enjoyed hunting. I used to do all season survival camping but my wife and kids do not like me taking off alone into the wilderness for a few weeks. I used to scuba but now I only snorkel – my wife does not like swimming in the ocean, so I snorkel alone, but my wife does not like me out of her sight from the beach. I used to be involved in fencing but lost the desire for contact sports. I ski and road cycle. I used to compete as an amateur but 2 years ago I had a serious accident cycling and my wife insists that I quit competitions. Mountain biking has gotten too technical so I only road bike. I used to white water raft – I believe it is the best activity for families. I like hiking but have developed a fear of heights, so I am not so involved in the more difficult hikes. My wife loves traveling so I go with her, but I do not care to ever see another castle, palace, mansion or cathedral. I enjoy ruins, scenic views and nature. I prefer to not be in cities unfortunately my wife loves visiting cities. I do love attending church, talking to Latter-day Saints and missionaries when traveling. The Traveler

Laws are only as effective as the people that enforce them. I think the great mistake we make in the United States is the belief that our Constitution will protect us and our freedom. I am more of the mind that our laws (including our Constitution) are teaching and training martials. Sadly, or unfortunately, it is the intelligence and morals of those we elect and give power to enforce the law that determine our freedoms and liberty according to their interpretations of the law. The Traveler

If you think this is funny – very often the things I see and hear are so hilarious I cannot contain myself and yet it is next to impossible to explain it to others. This is also the reason that I am unable to connect to anything (believe) unless I can comprehend the logic of it. The Traveler

I will offer some opinion but with the caveat that I do not have sufficient understanding (revelation?) to have come to any valid conclusion – rather more of a leaning towards ideas. It is my understanding that all matter (perhaps even energy?) exists with a spirit. I am led by scripture to believe that the earth has a spirit. The question that is still unanswered for me is if the earth has a spirit, does each grain of sand on earth have a spirit separate from the world spirit? I have also listened to and participated in a discussion about the physical matter that comprises our body. Does my physical body actually belong to me. Part of the problem is that there are living organisms that share a symbiotic relationship with the living cells that are comprised of my DNA. When I get a hair cut or clip my fingernails there are cells that have my DNA that I do not have residing connected to. If I lose a finger or an arm, am I no longer myself? Is part of me missing? I get the impression that in the resurrection nothing that is me will be lost. There is a saying that you are what you eat. If I die at sea and I am eaten by a shark and later that shark is eaten by some fisherman’s family – who gets to keep the physical matter, me or someone else. What am I? Many, especially traditional Christians believe that there was a beginning as a liter translation of the beginning phrases of Genesis. But there is an alternate reading among experts in the Hebrew language that a alternate translation of the beginning of Genesis is more accurate. In essence that alternate reading is: “When G-d first established his covenant with man.” The purpose of such a covenant would be directly related to the salvation of man. This idea makes sense to me. As to the discussion of man (humans) verses animals and all other forms of life. I believe that mankind is a very different living being different from all other forms of life – yet we have fundamental and basic similarities. I am of the mind that human spirit is different from other spirit in that we have a spirit capable of divine intelligence and thus creation (mainly the bringing to life and joining that which is spirit with that which is physical.) It is my thinking that this is what is being communicated in the creation epoch presented in scripture and the temple. I believe that we are co-eternal with G-d and because we possess the ability to join spirit with physical that in the pre-existent scripture references, we are called g-ds. I speculate that as part of our training we participated in the creation of this earth and solar system under the supervision of a being we recognize as The Son who was from the beginning (as referenced above) chosen, ordained and anointed to be the G-d of our salvation. As the G-d of our salvation and according to the hierarchy of the priesthood Christ supervises and assigns us in the same manner we are called and ordained in this mortal life. Are the things I have presented worthy of discussion or does anyone have sufficient revelation to better instruct my understanding? The Traveler

It is what you get when you cross dyslexia with spell checker. If you are shocked by this, it is of your own doing. 😬 The Traveler

I would respond to senior officials with the democrats understanding Biden and his cabinet. It amazes we how forgetful American voters are. Senior officials in the democratic party when Hillery was Secretary of State and provided intel for international decisions (remember Libya and Benghazi?) were promoted to senior staff positions in Biden’s cabinet and advises him on Iran (can be influenced and controlled diplomatically and with sanctions), Ukraine (would not last more than 48 hours if Russia invaded, Afghanistan withdrawal (Taliban could not take control for months or even years after the US withdrawal – also I doubt 10% of Americans recall the Trump administration requirements of the Taliban for a US withdrawal). I cannot think of a single international crisis that has occurred in over a decade that Blinken has judged correctly. Since the establishment of the Great Society under President Johnston the Democrats promised to end poverty and protect the environment. These two areas have received the most increases in federal funding. More than any other sector of government spending over the last 50+ years and yet – by the current admissions of all the Democrats running for office – the problems of poverty and environmental issues are worse and in greater need today (our greatest threat to our country and world) of increased funding than ever before. If we go off of what the Democrats said was necessary in relation to the GDP when all this was initiated – we are currently wasting 94% of our spending on those programs and yet it is still necessary to increase spending. Sadly – regardless of what republicans promise in their campaigning – government wasteful spending has continued to increase. The Traveler

Greetings @keeperofthegate . Our Father in Heaven had (and still has) a similar problem with one of his oldest sons. This older son was very successful in convincing a large contingency of the most intelligent beings in the most advanced civilization of our universe. It is rare and illogical to think we mortals could be more effective in our rolls as parents. We learn from our Father that the prime directive of Celestial beings is the principle of agency. Regardless of how much we love and direct our children the greatest overriding principle is their agency to determine for themselves what they will be. Our challenge is to love them for who they are and what they become. For me, understanding such love in a most difficult process but as I work on it – my adult children have come to know I love them though I cannot agree with them. The Traveler

Certain versions of the Bible will indicate in italics the English words that are somewhat in question for translation. In the phrase “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you.” The word “knew” is in italics – and alternate interpretation would be: “And then will I profess unto them, I never authorized you.” This alternating reading make much more sense to me – If Christ does not “know” certain individuals – he is not qualified to judge them. Is baptism necessary? Obviously, it is not for someone intent on not following Christ. But to claim to follow Christ – it is an obvious necessity because Christ was baptized and in scripture Christ tells us why. It is also interesting that Jesus was not baptized by the traditional authority that performed the ordinances necessary for the Jews at the temple (where ordinances necessary for Jesus, as a Jew, was performed shortly following his birth). The obvious logic is that John was authorized to baptize Christ. Unfortunately, the scriptures are not sufficient nor complete concerning the authorization of John. The Traveler

Republicans are not so bright. Trump may be the darling of most stanch republicans, but he is not attractive to the general populace of America. It is obviously true that the democrats have and continue to screw up everything they touch prompting republicans to think they have (according to stacked pooling) an easy ride to success. Then on election day they get blown away at the ballot box. I believe that the bumpy ride of the electoral process is nothing compared to what will come after the election. It appears to me that political types are more worried with what happened in the last or some previous election than what is coming next (both foreign and domestic). I learned from white water rafting that there is no reason to think about anything that has happened on the river – regardless of whatever tole was taken to get through any previous hydrologic. The only thing that matters or is important is to face down the river and prepare for what is coming next. The Traveler