Traveler

Members
  • Posts

    15706
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    45

Everything posted by Traveler

  1. Our electrical process has many flaws. Of course, we need some limitations as to who can be on a ballot – but all such limitations, in a free society, are determined long before that designated date for individuals to apply. Once applications have been accepted under the law – I find removal from the ballot most troubling – especially if the process involves individual(s) that are politically opposed to the individual being removed. I believe that a great sign of a totalitarian regime is to remove the voice of opposition – especially at the ballot box. If there is only one choice on a ballot – there is no freedom of choice. Da! I am very concerned with the blatant openness of political corruption of both parties but especially the Democrats. I am so concerned that our election process has been so corrupted = that I believe we ought to have a forced re registration to vote – allowing only living citizens to register to cast ballots. I believe that this is such a problem that to register illegally or register someone illegally - attempting to cast an illegal vote should be punishable with permanent lifetime loss of voting privileges as well as running for any government office. A second offense punishable with life in prison. The Traveler
  2. In our modern society, the light of truth is perhaps the greatest act of offense towards certain individuals. Many are so offended by the light of truth that the only acceptable use of the words “Jesus Christ”m to them, is to utter a profanity. This is not new, in my lifetime – it was beem a very common occurrencem especially what I experienced while in the army. Sadly, this is not an uncommon behavior even among professed Christians – including LDS. It is possible that someone on the forum finds my just made statement in my post somewhat offensive. I thought to look up the word “offense”: 1. a breach of a law or rule; an illegal act. 2. annoyance or resentment brought about by a perceived insult to or disregard for oneself or one's standards or principles. In the Gospel of John there are a number of debates that take place between Jesus and various Jews (Scribes and Pharisees). Obviously because of these debates and other occurrences offence was taken because they eventually sought to have Jesus put to death. On a few occasions they were so upset in the moment that they attempted to kill him on the spot. One of the scriptural occasions parallels a doctrine somewhat unique to the LDS teachings. As I have had discourse with many non-LDS Christians this particular teaching is of greatest offense to them and a primary reason why we are not considered Christian to them. This is in John 10 beginning with verse 22: Some background. Some Jews come to Jesus near the temple and ask him to tell them plainly if he is the Christ (Messiah). Jesus responds with some amazing pure unmistakable logic which concludes with the very logical statement that he and His Father are one. The Jews are so offended that they take up stone against Jesus to kill him. Jesus responds immediately with the logic asking which of his works offended them. The Jews say it is not because of works but because he is a man claiming he can become or is a G-d. To be exact making the claim that he is “one” with the Father. Jesus clearly points out with unmistakable logic that the scriptures (written in Jewish law) clearly point out that “Ye are g-ds” (verse 34). They were so offended that they attempted to again “take” him – presumably to kill him. One last point – for me --- I do not believe anyone should be offended by things said but rather by things that are actually done. See first meaning of offense. We can learn a lot about someone when they are allowed to speak freely. Often when people, especially those driven primarily by emotion over logic speak freely they most accurately display their thinking process. This is perhaps one of the most important reason that we ought to champion “free speech”. So we can determine (judge if you must); if they lie to themselves such that there is conflict between what they say and what they do. On the internet we cannot know what, in reality, a person does – only what they say. I do not see much logic in being offended by what is said on the internet - especially what is said somewhat anonymously. The Traveler
  3. At first one may wonder why this deeply scientific discussion is taking place in the LDS Gospel Discussion part of the forum. I like the idea of tying religious and scientific principles together. We are living in an age where we are learning that what we thought we knew is more ambiguous than detailed – for both science and religion. Neutrinos are problematic both to Einstein physics and quantum physics. @NeuroTypical's link to neutrinos faster than light has a caveat in that the best way (only known way) to quantify the existent characteristics of neutrinos is in large bodies of isolated water (ice). And in water neutrinos travel faster than photons (light) despite the quantum fact that neutrinos must possess mass but in such small quantity that neutrino quantum mass is off the charts in trying to address the quantum mass of any other quantum particle with mass (including electrons that are also very fast). Another problem with neutrinos is that there are 3 types of neutrinos or phases of neutrinos that are totally dependent on time. Meaning that a single neutrino cycles through the types over time that does not slow down (change) dependent on the speed of the neutrino which is at maximum or the speed of light. And yet neutrinos do not fit very nicely within special relativity in that a single neutrino can vary to carry little to enormous amounts of energy – something other quantum particles do not seem to what to try. This is odd because energy and matter are linked with the speed of light under special relativity? Some have suggested that neutrinos are a type of dark matter. The problem here is that dark matter does not have the characteristics of moving through the universe at the speed of light and the only time neutrinos are not in motion is when bonded (by the weak force) to atomic particles and then their effect in relationship to other fermion particles is negligible. A side note here – all other fermion particles gain their mass through interactions with the Higgs boson but not neutrinos? From our LDS religious side – Joseph Smith suggested that spirit is a type of refined matter. Though this may be useful information it is also immensely ambitious and difficult to quantify. On a number of occasions, I have attempted to describe some of my own theories to better link our understandings of our LDS religious revelations and what we think we understand through modern science. But this forum does not seem to have any interest (not intended to be critical – we all have our unique interests). However, I think that there are two concepts in science that are not very relevant and realistic to reality. The two concepts are infinite and zero. We use these terms in religion as well and I think such use in religion is as misguided (or more so) as they are in science. Thus, I believe that what we think we know in both science and religious is quite ambitious and we do not want to admit that we do not know what we do not understand. I will conclude my post now with the thoughts provided. The Traveler
  4. I had a problem finding a link that estimates 1 billion to one (nuetrinos to protons) however here is a link :https://www.newsweek.com/precise-neutrino-measurement-ever-brings-us-closer-understanding-universe-katrin-1679303 quote: "In fact, neutrinos are so light, virtually chargeless and so abundant that NASA estimates around 100 billion neutrinos pass every other square centimeter of our body every second, without our noticing them or their noticing our body." The Traveler
  5. Supernovas will not occur without neutrinos. Here are a couple of links for those interested to get started: https://phys.org/news/2021-07-supernova-explosions-sustained-neutrinos-neutron.html#:~:text=It's hard to conceive that,the heating provided by neutrinos. https://phys.org/news/2021-04-titanium-triggers-titanic-explosions.html Here is a fun question for the forum - For each neutron and proton in the universe -- how many neutrinos are there? Try guessing first and looking up the answer second. The Traveler
  6. As I am understanding the current proposed theory – posted above – neutrinos are required in order to have nuclear fusion. The reason that our current nuclear fusion bomb works is because it is set off by a nuclear fission reaction that releases the necessary neutrinos for a fusion reaction. The Traveler
  7. I was recently reading a white paper on neutrinos which are believed to be the most abundant particle in the universe with mass. James Webb telescope and super Kamiokande (large volume of water surrounded by phototubes detecting Cherenkov radiation). Without going into all the problems of neutrinos (a particle with mass traveling at the speed of light) – there are a lot of seemingly contradiction with neutrinos. Anyway, the theory is that not all heavy elements are forged in the heart of dying stars. Neutrinos are held in stars by weak interactions and gravity. According to the theory the heaviest element in an active star is iron. As a star collapses the outer rim plasma of the star is ejected in chaotic plumes which is followed by a gigantic burst release of high energy neutrinos. When a neutrino makes a direct hit on the nucleus of an atom a fusion reaction takes place that can then cause other reactions with near by atoms that will forge elements heaver than iron that are then pushed out into space. This high energy neutrino reaction is why some believe cold fusion is and impossible fantasy. Getting back to the theory that the heavy elements in the heart of the dying star remain with the collapsing star creating red dwarfs, pulsars, blackholes and other exotic stars (matter). The basic concept of your presentation remains intact – those heavy metals (gold etc.) in space are only created from dying stars (at least that is the only possibility science can currently conger). The Traveler
  8. I do not think that the things of G-d are blurry to those that are one with him. If I can ever get my act together I will let every know for sure. The Traveler
  9. This thread was started to prevent universal basic income. I included a YouTube video from Milton Friedman expressing a universal basic income he called negative income tax. I am not sure how much or what others think of such a concept – so I thought to point out a couple of other things in relation to negative income tax: I have posted before about the 1960 census that determined that we would eliminate poverty by transferring a percentage (2%) of our nation’s wealth (GDP) to help the poor. This has become the mantra of liberals and progressives. It is the framework of our social program needs. The percentage of 2% has constantly increased and today the percentage is very close to 30% of our GDP. This country need to know that by all the data in support of our social programs that currently we are wasting 94% of our spending on social services. This is how corrupt our social programs have become – and for the record I am not including any payoff of student loans. I also feel that we have gone too far to protect dependent children in the workplace. I would also suggest that with the negative income tax we could do away with minimum wage. If a wage was not worth it anyone could rely on their negative income tax while looking and learning new wage opportunities. We could also change our current social security to be exclusively retirement (removing job disabilities compensations). Of course, many poor would still have needs, but the remaining needs could be met by private – local charities (including state not federal). I also like the idea that everyone pays taxes – including the poor. Why give money to the poor and then make them pay taxes on that money? Because the poor would then have skin in the game of government and would vote to keep their money except for actual necessities provided by the government. In the almost 50 years since Friedman suggested his negative income tax – I have not seen or heard of anything better and lest wasteful. My suggestion is if anyone knows of something better for government helping the poor (program) please let me know. Otherwise, I suggest you learn more about Friedman’s negative income tax and inform your neighbor. The Traveler
  10. Thanks again. The links look promising. Having worked in the semiconductor industry on of the problems with innovations of high conductivity and low voltage has been shielding from various outside electromagnetic radiation. I have watched various developments of high conductivity over the years because the efficiency of electric motors is increased with better conductivity. A big problem is that electric motors heat up with time in use and load. There is a similar catch 22 with solar panels – because the sun is also a source of heat. It looks like it will still be a while before we see industrial level production but any steps would be a good thing. The Traveler
  11. As a young missionary I dealt with the reference in 3Nephi and wondered how it was possible that anything could not be expressed. For all my pursuit there was no reasonable answer. For me, there has always been a process as I explained previously. Answers come as impressions in thoughts that usually come as a process themselves. Sometimes the thought process is that I am not ready (worthy). Sometimes I understand things will not be made known until later – as thought there is a time and a season. Sometimes I understand in part with the impression that more will come over time. However, there was nothing concerning the 3Nephi conundrum. I eventually forgot about it and moved on to other things. Many years later I found myself overridden with life, work and callings. I was way in over my head attempting to stay above water with my young growing family, critical requirements in my work and challenges in my calling. Any one of the challenges would have been too much but with all that was going on – I was realizing that I was not contributing sufficiently anywhere. Circumstances were such that I had the privilege of being in the Celestial room of a temple for the dedication. As best as I can describe my experience – during the dedication it was as though the temple walls and celling became transparent. There is no possible way I could describe what I heard and saw and especially what I was able to perceive. The spirit reminded me of my searching years before, letting me understand that what I was experiencing was an answer to my questions concerning 3Nephi. I was also impressed that the reason for my experience was, in part, because of my willingness to remain loyal to my covenants. I am often reminded (though not always) of this experience when I visit the temples or hear (sing) certain hymns. The impression I have of Ezra’s Eagle is that I will be better prepared for things to come by paying greater attention to other things I have been given. The Traveler
  12. You have touched on several problems with ancient text – especially scripture. It can be difficult for even two individuals well versed in their first language to be present and listen to a third person (also speaking in the same language) to have the same understanding to what was spoken. One of the most difficult problems with scriptural text is that few are expert enough to translate from the original text. Of those experts, there is often an agenda that is contrary to what is being written in the text. I have determined (also suggested in my patriarchal blessing) that the single best tool for understanding is the Gift of the Holy Ghost. The single worse tool for understanding is to have a preset (prejudice) conclusion that is intended to achieve. The Doctrine and Covenants outlines for us a very workable method that includes study – which includes the gathering of information, cataloging the information, meditating (thinking out logical possibilities), creating a consensus and then praying about the entire process and especially the consensus. I believe there is one more step that is not explicitly stated but implied – that is to listen for a response. For example, many got to the temple and pray for an answer. So busy are they praying that they never hear a response. I am of the mind that listening to the spirit is a discipline to be learned – not a difficult discipline for a small child is often more capable of listening discipline than adults. I believe there is a problem in that some would think all that is necessary is that we pray and ask; then whatever it is that we then believe is all that is necessary. Sometime my personal prayers have not been answered for several years – so long that I had forgotten my prayers and had to be reminded by the spirit. For me, most often, understanding does not come all at once. Usually, I have to engage and take baby steps of understanding through action and experience while remaining loyal to covenants. Often, greater dedications are needed towards covenants before things become clearer. Side note here – it amazes me that, for example, any effort to better keep the Sabbath Day holy is most met with ridicule is from those compartmented Saints that think no one should attempt a more holy Sabbath Day than them. There is one other critical element – it would seem that understanding is most often specific to myself and when I share it generally it is not well understood or accepted – yet there are a few (some family and some very close friends) that are trustworthy to share. Sometimes on rare occasions this forum. Then to my surprise my new found understandings are old things they have known for a long time – and so they welcome me to my new understandings. The Traveler
  13. My friend Hugh Nibley once said that “Facts are truths altered by opinion.” A few years ago, my wife and I visited Israel and chose as our guide the LDS Rona tours. There are many reasons for our choices. The most important being that the Rona’s (Father/son) are the only LDS guides in Israel with Israeli citizenship and fully licensed Israeli guides – that includes a master’s degree in local history. One of our points of interest and visit was Nazareth. I mentioned to our guide (Steven) that I was surprised to note that there are no trees in the area. Our guide pointed out that Nazareth is not only not close to any trees, but the terrane is difficult (extremally rocky and not conducive to agriculture). The history of Nazareth is tightly coupled with a rock quarry and other mining – in fact the city was founded to work the adjacent quarry that had been in operation for over 4,000 years (still operating) and there is no indication throughout its history, of an economy in Nazareth associated with wood. Today the city’s economy relies on tourism (Christian pilgrimages) and the quarry and other mining. Nazareth is not a source of wood production. What current tourists wood products sold there comes from raw sources elsewhere and fabricated in other places. On another note – the ancient texts discovered near the Dead Sea (Dead Sea Scrolls) has had a significant impact on our understanding of ancient texts associated with both the Old and New Testament Biblical texts. Not just on what particular ancient texts are accurate but which family of texts are the most accurate. The textual criticism associated with the DSS has significantly altered our understanding of ancient scriptural text. Some of the texts I find most interesting are the Isaiah scroll, the Son of G-d scroll, the coper Temple Scroll, the Damascus Scroll or Rules of the Community and the assortment of scrolls concerning the Messiah. In an effort to diminish the importance of this find there has been a profound effort to associate the scrolls with the ancient Essenes. The one point that proves otherwise is that through graphology it has been proven that several of the scribes that were living at the Dead Sea Scrolls settlement when it was destroy by the Romans were also at present at the siege of Masada. No scholar pretends that Masada was in any way associated with the Essenes. A study of the Dead Sea Scrolls will convince any honest historian that the text settled on as Biblical canon through human ecumenical counsels is both insufficient and overly dogmatic. Thus, the need for a restoration to include modern scripture such as the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Perl of Great Price. What I find personally interesting that in a Christmas message from the Pope of Rome as well as the Cardinal (arch bishop of New York) referenced more apocryphal than canon scripture. The Traveler
  14. This is also used to determine the first day in the ancient Hebrew calendar as well as Passover. Many believe this was the method of establishing the first day of the year in many ancient calendars. For some examples: the Enoch calendar used in the Book of Enoch, the most accepted calendar of Stonehenge and the Mayan calendar. One of the problems with such methods has to do with spring storms, especially those with heavy clouds lasting for weeks obstructing sun rises (and sets) and phases of the moon. The ancient saying among the Hebrews when there were heavy clouds obstructing the views of heavenly signs, was that “No man knows the day, not even the angles of heaven”. Though the saying was intended to make a point there were “experts” (similar to @Vort)that carefully and explicitly followed the signs in the heavens and knew when the day (Easter) would be, much in advance – even without the code indicated by @zil2. On another note – the code to calculate Easter is significantly simpler than code to predetermine how to have a rocket that will place a satellite in geocentric orbit or sending a rocket to the moon or mars or especially the rather unique orbit of the James Webb Telescope. The Traveler
  15. I think that within the religious community that it is not uncommon for someone to be somewhat confused with believing, hoping, exercising faith and having knowledge. So here is a thread to explorer what we think concerning these terms. I think that these terms are most often confused, especially with youth while expressing their testimony during Fast and Testimony meeting that is part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I do not intend to criticize anyone – but rather express my personal inability to understand certain expressions. Though all the terms are related I will attempt to express what each means to me: Belief: Sometimes I believe what a person expresses concerning their religious belief and what they really think and do is not consistent. But the reality is that what we believe is what we do. There is a saying – “What you do thunders so loudly in my ears that I can hear a word you say expressing what you believe.” If a person is honest (especially to themselves) I am of the notion that when expressing their testimony – what they believe is the most powerful expression and the most profound connection to G-d. Our belief is developed throughout our entire experiences and is more of what we are than we tend to realize. I think that expressing one’s belief is good to do – even to write down our belief is important to clarify, especially to ourselves, what exactly it is that we believe. You cannot believe in paying a full tithing unless you pay a full tithing. You cannot believe in mercy unless you are merciful. You cannot believe in truth and tell little white lies. Hope: I think that hope is often confused with faith. I think the reason for this is because (I think) hope is the first step of faith. When we utter a first prayer – I believe it is because he have hope that our prayer will be heard. Some think that such a step is a “leap of faith”. I do not like that term, “Leap of faith”. I think it would be better expressed as a “Leap of hope”. For me hope is a desire or intent to discover what is or what we think possible. Having hope and a good think and a powerful tool that can get us to do things we would not otherwise. I do not think we should ever be ashamed of hoping for good things. Faith: Perhaps I have a different idea about faith. I do not think there is much of a difference between faith and knowledge. Because the line is so fine, I think many confuse themselves thinking their faith is knowledge and that what they think is knowledge is in reality faith. I will use an example and use as a symbol of faith with a reference to electrons (electricity). Some study electrons and think they know what an electron is – but in truth no one has ever seen an electron. But we have all had lots of experiences with something that we all call electrons (electricity). Our faith is so strong in electrons that we never doubt that electrons exist and work. If we hit a switch to a light and the light does not come on – no one ever thinks, “Oh no electrons (electricity) no longer works”. Rather we think the light bulb has burned out. If we replace the light bult and the light still does not come on – we think the switch has quite working, or a breaker and shut off the electricity – or after we have checked everything in our home then we think the power is off. No one ever loses faith in electricity. We continue to “hope” we will find out why the light does not come on. But our faith in electrons persists. But note that in order to have faith – some knowledge, hope and belief is required. Knowledge: I am expressing my understanding. Knowledge as I understand is the divine revelation that that what we experience is true. The problem with knowledge is that it is fleeting and can be lost and become a uncertain memory. I do not believe someone can know a thing unless it is true, and G-d has made that truth known by the power of the Holy Ghost. This means that the only way a person can know or have knowledge is to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (by covenant) and then to be loyal to that covenant. As soon as one disconnects from their covenant, doubt will muddle their thinking and their knowledge of the truth will be become uncertain. This is why it is impossible to know truth without a witness of Christ in that truth. It is why all truth gives witness of Christ. The caveat to this is that for whatever principle of truth someone discovers – they discover something of Christ. But if they have not herd the truth of Christ they may not realize that they are learning of Christ. Thus, someone can know a truth and deny that they know anything concerning Christ. Because they do not understand that they only deny their false understanding of Christ. The Traveler
  16. I had the responsibility of delivering our second to the youngest – at the hospital because the doctor did not make it in time (some story). I doubt that anyone would remain in the same place (spot) very long where the delivery took place. Also, this delivery was not so much of a feather in my cap as an incredible accomplishment and achievement for my wife. I have often wondered what help Joseph had – I doubt he was on his own. I believe it possible that angles were assisting. And yet the greatest sacrifice went to Mary to deliver the Christ. Sometimes I think the contributions of women are not as appreciated as they should be. Especially in the current gender climate. It is doubtful the Mary was anxious to travel much over the 41 days. The Traveler
  17. In 1960 the most intensive government census in history was conducted in the USA. As a result, a political movement was created with two major objectives (among others). End poverty and the destruction of our environment caused from human pollution. This was initiated by the Democrats under President Johnson in May of 1964. This initiative has now become the greatest tax and expenses on Americans. I would point out that with all the government involvement and research that the results are that poverty today is worse than in 1964 (more Americans per capita) living below the poverty level and that even by all the government standards and documentation of our environmental issues since 1964 – we are in greater danger of destroying our environment today than back in 1964. Concerning global warming – it is interesting to note that all the planets and also our sun of our solar system are all experiencing global warming climate change. It is also interesting to note that the areas of our earth that are experiencing the greatest percent in global warming climate change – it has been discovered that the cause is geological and not atmospheric. It is also important to note that in general there has been a global climate warming change since the decline of the last major ice age caused by geological changes. The second largest super volcano in the world is sitting under almost 3 miles of ice at the south pole in antarctica. There is warming and expansion within that volcano’s caldera indicating a possible eminent eruption. If and when a major eruption occurs it will cause the melting of enough ice to raise the oceans from 20 to 60 feet. If such an eruption was rapid, over 80% of the world’s human population would have to migrate within 48 hours. Also such an eruption would emit more green house gases within a few hours than humans would in decades. Why are environmentalists (and politicians) not worried about geological effects on climate? The Traveler
  18. I remember back in the olden days when we had to get up and walk across the room to change the channels on the TV. No wonder generations are gaining weight. Getting back to @zil2 ‘s op. I was taught by my parents that achievement in any pursuit is learning to love doing all the things needed for success. For example, I was taught that earning wealth was not just doing hard things that others were not doing – I was taught that it was necessary to learn to love doing hard things not just doing hard things. I believe that eventually we will stop doing things we do not love doing – regardless of whatever other rewards we think we are getting. If we do not love walking the path to the destination it will eventually not matter (not be worth it). There is nothing more miserable than doing things you do not love doing thinking you will be rewarded for it. The Traveler
  19. Thanks Your pickup concerning sphere is absolute genus. The more I consider this notion the more impressed I am. A sphere adds to the dimension concept over that of a platform. This bring me back to revelations given by Joseph that was so far a head of its time. Even theories coming forward because of the James Webb telescope are trying to solve creation of the universe through thinking beyond the normal dimensions. Your post has me going back through scripture and various quantum theories and rethinking a great deal --- Thanks. Concerning the 41 days in Jerusalem there are a number of elements in history that play into this story. You may want to do some research into a possible historical character known as Prester John. If you can get Islamic references from the time of Salah Al Din. Also, there is an interesting document kept by what is called the Nestorian Christians. I surmise that Prester John was more a title than a name of an individual. The document I mention is a letter claimed to be written by the hand of Jesus. Short part of a long story – the letter is carbon dated to the time of Jesus and the parchment is from the area of Israel. The back story is that a ruler priest in Persia was converted that Jesus was the Mesiah and sent an envoy to draw his picture and get Jesus to leave Jerusalem (Israel) and come live under his protection. The picture was lost in time, but the letter (according to claim) was preserved. The Nestorian Christians supposably knew about the star from ancient text that were destroyed with a library about the same time as the library of Alexendria. I first learned about the Nestorian Christians when some fled Iran when the Shaw of Iran fell, and the current regime took over. Having met an individual (Nestorian Christian) that had fled Iran and learned their version of Christianity (especially the G-dhead) caused a paradigm shift in my thinking. I speculate that the Kings bringing gifts had connections to the Melchizedek (priestly king), had connections to revelations not in our Bible and knew the importance of the Messiah as a member of the G-dhead separate from the Father and Holy Spirit. And – they could have made the journey within the 41 days. On another note – I have speculated that the Star that appeared was a supernova about 600 light years away – that energy radiation from the supernova would have caused the ozone to turn fluorescent resulting in a night of light without shadows in the Americas. The Traveler
  20. I thought to post in this thread concerning what many think are inconsistencies, contradictions or rejections of one idea in order to consider the possibilities of another. I will admit that this is a prejudice of mine towards many that argue religious notions --- that there often seems to be to be an attitude among those arguing religious point that to disagree (or I would say to offer other views) creates inconsistencies and contradictions that are tantamount to the rejections of the notions that they hold from their religious foundation. I would compare Einstein and his explanations in science to the explanations of prophets in religion. I realize that in so saying many would think that I hold science (empirical evidence) above religion (that which is spiritual). That would be a misunderstanding of my point of view. Einstein suggested a solution to empirical inconsistencies and contradictions. He called his suggestion a reference frame. That all truths are better understood by understanding the reference frame from which evidence is obtained. I would suggest that Moroni chapter 10 of the Book of Mormon testifies of this from a spiritual frame of reference. Moroni calls these spiritual frames of reference spiritual gifts. Moroni goes on to suggest that all individuals that exist in mortality are given unique spiritual gifts and that this is for the purpose that one spiritual gift (reference frame) not be excluded for another but that such are given so all may be uplifted – that those seeking divine light will find divine light in ever individual. I will now turn to what @Carborendum calls canonical scripture to demonstrate how one spiritual reference frame can seem contradictory or inconsistent to the other when in reality truth can be spiritually obtained from both. Lets begin with Matthew chapter 2 verses 13 and 14: Now let us consider the spiritual reference frame of Luke chapter 2. In this reference frame there is a lot concerning Jewish traditions including circumcising and making offerings in the temple of Jerusalem. Luke also make reference to individuals at the temple that received revelations concerning the baby Jesus. Let us now look at verses 38 and 39: When they left did they go to Egypt or to Nazareth? Is believing one rejecting the other? In the Book of Mormon there is a reference to a portion of the religious community that will refuse to even consider anything concerning the Book of Mormon – 2Nephi 20:3: Perhaps we can substitute for Bible the reference of canonical scripture. The concept of scripture canon is a pagan notion. Latter-day revelation has given us what we call standard works but with the caveat expressed in the 9th Article of Faith: I do not intend to give anyone the idea that I know any more than anyone else concerning Christmas and the birth of Christ. I do intend to offer as many points of reference as possible and allow those reading to decipher for themselves. I would suggest that those interested read the ancient accounts for themselves. I would suggest that it is good to be informed concerning the counsels of men that determined our scripture canon. The reference of Mary’s birth and her connection to Elizabeth and to Joseph and the siblings of Jesus I offer as a spiritual reference frame for each individual to decide for themselves. Those of ancient time that had such record text in their libraries (prior to the selections of canon) believed such texts to have originated with Saint Matthew – the same that wrote the Gospel of Mathew. Were they correct in their belief? Were those that created the canon scripture correct to leave this text out? I believe the attitude of the Pharisees concerning scripture mislead many concerning Christ. I have found understanding of the Christ by searching all that profess the Christ. True there are elements of which I am skeptical. But I have learned that it is best to listen to things from the ancient past that for whatever reason have been preserved and made known today. The Traveler
  21. I was preparing a response for the thread “Christmas” that very much parallels what is happening in this thread. The prophet Amos make a statement about the spiritual symmetry of divine prophesy and the fulfillment of divine prophesy. I believe that this spiritual symmetry demands the role of living prophets (both ancient and current). That the utterance and actions of the ancients if fulfilled by the utterances and actions of the current. I believe that Jesus utilized this symmetry as the prime witness that he was the chosen Messiah. I believe this is also testified as a witness in Alma chapter 13 of the Book of Mormon. However, it would seem that Alma connects this prophetic symmetry with our first estate or the pre-existence. I interpret Ecclesiastes 1:9 that all things of this mortal existence was planed in our first estate as prophesy and is fulfilled by what is done in our mortality. That our G-d not only knows all such things but makes them manifest and known to those that believe in Him. The Traveler
  22. The greatest sign to all the world that these are the last days took place nearly 200 years ago (April 6, 1830) when the kingdom of G-d was restored to the earth in its infancy. I personally believe the next greatest sign to the world was in 1978 when all males of every nation, kindred, tongue and people were cleared by divine decree to receive the priesthood of G-d and participate in all the ordinances and covenants of G-d in order to prepare all peoples throughout the world that will so covenant, to receive the Christ that will rule earth in peace for 1,000 years. There has never been a time on earth when the Gospel of Christ and the laws, ordinances and covenants of the Kingdom of G-d have been more available to all of mankind than at this very moment today. It is my perceptions that for 2,000 years the wheat and tares have been growing together and that recently there has begun a great shuffling taking place to separate the wheat from not just the tares but the chaff as well. I do not know that much concerning society prior to the flood of Noah and the final advent of Enoch but I cannot imagine that the separations and divisions between the saints of G-d and the perversions of man were any more distinct that what is currently taking place. I would also point out that there is not a nation that currently will not allow those intent on destroying Israel to openly declare their intent throughout all nations, unincumbered without actual recourse. Those that are familiar with the geography and history of Israel know that Armageddon is not a place of war or any battle but rather a symbol or place that Israel gathered and prepared for war. Symbolically the leader Gog and the place of Magog are currently at war and in league with those nations intent on destroying Israel. This is not a time of preparations for war but a time of war in Israel. I am under the impression that this is not a time of peace in the world (despite the Christmas season) but rather a time of increasing tensions, violence and great economic uncertainty. Some speak in terms of the coming election as a deliverance or time of easing. Personally, I doubt that the hope of such things will sustain even till the casting of ballots for that election. Those insisting on procrastinating their final preparations and thinking there is plenty of time remaining to enjoy the exploits of the world – follow a path I do not recommend. The Traveler
  23. I am not so sure about “Ezra’s Eagle”. My main concern is that none of our sustained “prophets” teach these things. As far as given and especially modern revelation concerning the end of times – I am on the notion that nothing is more relevant than the Book of Mormon. My personal most concerning notion is the intrusion of a secret combination, as spoken of in the BofM, into the highest offices of our government – especially those elected and those appointed as judges. I am also concerned about our lawyers and those that work in our legal system. Not all, because I have faith in some I know – like @Just_A_Guy on our forum. But in general, I believe the Book of Mormon to be prophetic and that as the last-days progress we will see in our government how those supporting the satanic secret combinations protect each other and create legal ways to destroy their opposition. The Traveler
  24. I believe you are mostly correct for a Terrestrial or secular society. I am also a proponent of such. However, for a Celestial or Zion society or even a class III on the Kardashev scale – I am of the opinion that there is greater wealth that is achieved when the motivation is beyond self-interest. I think that self-interest cannot drive any society above what I believe is a Terrestrial order – which in historical or worldly sense of things is quite amazing. The Traveler
  25. I thought I would take a shot at my idea of where wealth comes from. I am going to suggest that wealth comes from the populace working in concert doing what is impossible for any individual. I would also suggest that the more the populace works in concert the greater will be the wealth. I will also suggest that the convers is also true the more there is descent or unwillingness to work not just in concert but unwilling to work at all – not only will there be less wealth but if such remains, wealth will be destroyed or fall into ruin. I believe the great question of any economy is how to motivate work – especially to motivate work in concert throughout society. The Traveler