Traveler

What concerns me comes from the darkness of Joseph Goebbels the evil father of mass indoctrination, propaganda and brain washing that said in essence – what ever the masses will tolerate they will eventually embrace. The Traveler

I am not sure, but I think that perhaps you missed my point. I am not so much concerned with players (though only one team can end their run for the championship with a win). My concern is the vicarious effect upon fans – most of which appears to me to be negative. Especially upon the youth whose brains have not fully developed executive functions capable of discerning what is reasonable verses unreasonable. It also seems to affect a growing number of adults that vicariously seem to insert their own self worth into something that does not deserve such an investment. I used to travel to away BYU games and enjoy talking to local fans. Often enjoying getting to know them while explaining why, they should not buy me (or most other BYU fans) a beer. There are certain fans that do not like any fans from any visiting team on their home turf. It is not just verbal slurs but from time to time even food and drinks tossed in spite. The all time worse such fans are Wyoming (though I have met many good-natured Wyoming fans at venues other than their home venues) and for the sake of peace on the forum – I will not mention the second worse fanbase or what they are capable of. As a side note I have attended events at Noter Dame and find those fans the best – even much better than BYU fans. As I was leaving, I was congratulated by Noter Dame fans that waited just thank me for coming and for my team’s win. If I was good at a sport – I would not want to waste my talents on trashy fans without class. I would want to represent respectful fans with class that could handle a hard fought close lost with dignity. The Traveler

Elder Boyd K Packer wanted to get out of competitive NCAA sports at all Church schools. He succeeded in instituting intramural sports as the focus at all church institutions except BYU Provo, Utah. The problem is seldom with the players and almost always with fans. The term fan is short for fanatic. As a youthful boy, I use to sneak into BYU games at the old stadium and field house. I still like rooting for my cougars where I attended college, but much has changed since my youth – most notably with the fans. In many ways I agree with Brother Packer. I like cheering but resent booing. I really do not like the atmosphere, especially at basketball games aimed at intimidating any players or referees. The atmosphere among the fans between BYU and the University of Utah is absolutely deplorable and frankly, is an embarrassment (or should be an embarrassment) to a Latter-day Saint that roots for either school. So much so that I do not think the two should play against each other - ever. There are fans on both sides that are reasonable but the idoits on both sides all too often ignite the worst in each other. Some disagree with the attitude that it is all part of the game – and that is at the core of the problem. I would like to also say something about refs. One of my best friends from my childhood dearly loved sports and became a professional ref for high schools and colleges. There is also a professional ref in my stake that used to be in my ward. I am convinced that anyone that complains about a call or a ref does not personally know a ref and definitely has ever walked in their shoes. Refs are a critical and integral part of decent sport and competition that usually make far fewer mistakes (including mistakes of judgments) than coaches and players but definitely fewer than fans. I saw the final play between BYU and Arizona. It looked like a good call for a hip check that changed the play on the ball. The same foul was called several times during the game on BYU mostly when BYU was playing offence setting screens. I admit that in this case I have a prejudice, and I have not talked to any of my ref friends. But I do trust the particular professional and agree with the Arizona coach that the particular ref is one of the best in the conference. I would add something I have learned from professional refs – seldom if ever do they favor a team or deliberately make calls for or against a team. But they will deliberately make calls for or against players – especially against players that are mouthy, disrespectful or are consistently pushing the limits, trying to get away with stuff. Can refs make a difference in a game? – Absolutely! And that is why we have them. Any player that does not understand that refs can and will make a difference – should not be playing the game, or at least they need to learn how to play the game with refs enforcing the rules of the game. After all – it is only a game. It is about sports and sportsmanship. Something that, at least to me, seems to be what Elder Packer was concerned about and something we all should consider carefully. I really do not like professional sports. I believe money corrupts sportsmanship – though it is not the only corruption of sportsmanship it is definitely a contributor. Something that concerns me greatly with the current trends in NCAA sports. The Traveler

I have thought to engage you post and certain thoughts. My intention is to be careful because there are some things that may appear that I disagree, but I am not sure that is the case. Hopefully, it is mostly a misunderstanding. My understanding of righteousness is someone that makes and keeps covenants with G-d. The opposite of righteousness is wickedness and thus is someone that either refuses to covenant with G-d or deliberately breaks their covenant with G-d. I believe that there is a third option – someone that does not know or understand G-d and his covenants. I am of the mind that the vast majority of us humans fall into this third option of someone, that to some degree or another, just does not understand that much about G-d or his covenants as we should. We tend to think only someone that is anti-Christ would crucify Him – and yet the last words of Christ during his mortal experience were, “Father forgive them for they know no what they do.” At another time and place Jesus forbid his disciples from judging others. Some scholars have interpreted that what Jesus said would be better translated as Jesus forbidding his disciples from condemning others. This introduces a bit of a conundrum. Would condemning someone as being anti-Christ be an actual act of an anti-Christ? Jesus said that to look upon another and lust after them, means that we have already committed adultery in our heart. If we are to only have those void of adultery to be our leaders – who has never committed adultery in their heart? And who is worthy to determine who has or has not repented? Be it 7 or 70 times 7 acts of repentance? I would personally be elated if an Apostle of Christ could be elected. Unfortunately, in our society to even write in an Apostle of Christ would be a wasted ballot. I would make one point for your consideration. In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints donated funds are considered sacred. The abuse and misuse of donated funds to the Church are considered sufficient for excommunication from the Church. It is an act that requires the First Presidency review for repentance and restoration of covenant blessings. During my entire lifetime (which is approaching 8 decades) there has never been a president of the United States of America that believes donated (taxed) funds are sacred and should not be wasted or abused than what appears to me to be the actions of President Trump. I do not personally know Trump. I have not liked him much as a person because I am not a fan of corporate billionaires. I am even less a fan of professional politicians. It has been more than 50 years that I have felt that I could campaign for anyone running for political office because of my personal prejudice of those willing to run for a national political office. Because of my personal covenants with G-d and especially the 12th Article of Faith I have personally bit my tongue about kings, presidents, rulers and magistrates. I hope for a time when Christ will reign. But until such a time, I will abide by the laws that are established – even while I visit such places as Russia or China or wherever. And yet for all my disappointments in political leaders I dare not judge or condemn any so as to present my witness that any are without any doubt in my mind to be anti-Christ. Though I believe many things of the world to be anti-Christ and should be called out and witnessed to be anti-Christ – I do not know enough about any individual to so label them. The Traveler

Who told you that? The human brain never stops thinking – even during the different cycles of sleep. It is just a specific part of the brain that produces adrenaline and kicks in a different kind of thinking. 🤪 The Traveler

Keep in mind that Mr. Collins was created completely from an Elizabethan female with what I consider a limited understanding of men. At least as limited of men as I am of females – especially Elizabethan females. The Traveler

The so-called Muppets are not a single franchise. It was split into two franchises. One stayed with Sesame Street, the other did movies and other pursuits. Each of the characters is also an individual that is licensed to that character to which no one else can replace or act. It is my understanding that individuals can sign contracts for their acting – even within a particular franchise (like Star Wars) but an individual can still seek work on their own. BYU and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is capable of creating their own licensed characters – like Studio C but they cannot control the actors themselves. BYU already has their hands full with rogue professors. With the very limited exposure I have personally had with actors and the movie enterprise in general – I am of the mind that BYU is better off letting the movie industry (as well as the entire spectrum of entertainment industry) to produce what they will and then pick and choose what they will for broadcasting – the Tabernacle Choir at Temple Squar as the singular exception. The Traveler

I wanted to post thanks to you and others like you for choosing the profession that you have. I do not believe that force is ever an option when they are angry with rage. I could not or should not do your job for a different reason. Force should be avoided at all costs if it feeds into an adrenaline rush. The Traveler

I find these videos both interesting and compelling. And yet at the same time, I believe we must be careful. I do not believe that Brother Bradley insights are coincidences but rather these things are rather threads in a tapestry of understanding and conviction to assist us to believe in and follow Christ. It is both confusing and sad to me that not one of the witnesses (including all the exceptional historical parallels to the ancient witnesses of Christ) of the Book of Mormon came west to what is now Utah with Brigham Young and the pioneering vanguard of Saints. Of course, we can argue that none of the witnesses ever wavered in their testimony of the Book of Mormon and that is another witness in and of itself. But never-the-less, the historical parallel is not quite the same. I do believe that Brother Bradley has exceptional spiritual gifts, and it would be well for us to incorporate his witness and testimony into our own tapestry of understanding of the marvelous works and wonders of the restoration. I also believe that every testimony and witness of Christ (including even those not of our faith) can be received and added to our personal tapestry that Jesus is the Christ, our L-rd, our redeemer and the author of our salvation. The Traveler

It is my wish that we learn to listen to each other. I started this thread because I do not think it is possible to have a conversation with many good people that think Trump is the Anti-Christ. The fellow I referenced in my initial post is a friend, an ultra-conservative, stanch republican and a stalwart temple LDS. What I do not understand is why this otherwise good person cannot have respectable dialog about Trump with anyone that supports anything Trump is doing. I will use this friend as an example. He was not just angry; he could not even express himself without a high level of contention. His contention was not just in his tone of voice but also in accusation. His accusations were along the lines of Hitler and the Nazi following (I have studied Joseph Goebbels and the Nazi movement). I do not think Trump fits that category. I do believe that Trump is a narcissist. With perhaps very rare exception – I think every career politician (and the vast majority of bureaucrats) are narcissists just to be able to survive the current climate of our government. Back to the FBI agents involved in the January 6 incident at our capital. It is my understanding that they were working undercover. They were not wearing garb with FBI written on them. I do not think the FBI followed protocol concerning the pipe bomb. I also do not believe they were following protocols to encourage taking down barriers and entering our congressional building. I also do not believe that anything Trump said was even as near as bad as what several of our elected officials are saying on intercom speakers at rallies (in DC) in opposition to DOGE. I do not understand the logic of such seemingly double standard. I will admit that I do not know sufficient information to be sure of anything beyond my own suspicion – that I do not trust enough to accuse anyone of criminal behavior – let alone what I understand of the Anti-Christ. What concerns me is that though I would love to sit down and have a completely open discussion with the likes of someone like @JohnsonJones – I am not sure it is possible to discuss details and question logic without generating contention with someone that I do not wish at all to offend. I would only like to discover what I seem to have missed. I am not interested in name calling or labels. I do not believe talking about Trump as a convicted felon is any more sufficient than accusing Jesus because he also was a convicted felon. I am interested not so much in any opinion as I am in the why of specific opinions – and if such why’s are distributed amicably without bias. Why do I currently support Trump? Because of DOGE. I believe (and with what I consider good logic and reason) that 90% of our federal social programs are wasted on corruption and inefficiency. In all my life I have not encountered any other politician willing to take on the corruption (both political and personal pushback) and waist in our government. I question why our elected officials (especially federal) seem to leave office with vast amounts of wealth beyond their pay grade. With the exception of Trump that has lost wealth. Not that I believe in Trump more than those called on our Church – just that I believe wealth and especially the desire to keep wealth is so often an indication of corruption. Many of our founding fathers accumulated a lot of wealth that was lost in their pursuits of freedom and liberties. The Traveler

I have come to believe that it is a very natural man reaction to get upset and even angry when falsely accused or deliberately triggered, but anger seldom (if ever) helps the situation. It can be beneficial to express disappointment (as Jesus often did even among his Apostles) but Jesus also warned not to get angry with others. When among the Nephites, Jesus forbid them from becoming contentious. I believe it was Benjamin Franklin that said something along the following, “Only a fool will be offended by someone that did not mean to offend. But it takes a bigger fool to be offended by someone that meant the offence.” The Traveler

I saw a clip on Fox news that is a preview of a Trump and Musk interview. Musk is talking about a good friend (but no longer a friend) of his that started to talk about Trump, and it was like he was shot with a dart of methine laced with rabies. Musk said that his friend suddenly turned. Musk then holds his hands up like claws. This was quite a surprise to me and at the same time I realized that I have observed this same behavior myself – both with family members and friends. Some are not democrats but republican supporters of Romney. In all cases the conversations were not expressly about Trump. For example, about a year ago I asked a family member if they had determined who they were going to vote for. They never answered the question but instead when into a very angry rant about Trump and why Trump could not ever be president again. In a more recent case, someone mentioned how they could not believe all the corruption and graft was being discovered by DOGE. And then a friend suddenly went into a most angry tangent rant about Trump targeting FBI agents to lose their jobs that opposed him on Jan 6th. Musk said that it is impossible to have any reasonable discussion with such angry individuals. I do not know if anyone has noticed this Trump derangement syndrome. I am of the belief that contention is of the devel. I have no desire what-so-ever to have any kind of a discussion with someone that is hot angry – even if I agree with what they are saying. In fact, if someone is angry in discussing a subject, I am of the notion that I need to rethink my stand if I agree with them. There are several conservative commentators that I just do not listen to because their composure is somewhat over the top with anger. One last side note. A long time ago in a galaxy far far away I competed in debate in high school. I learned that if I could make my opponent angry I would always win the debate – a tactic my debate partner was expert at and won us a state championship. This is also a lesion I have determined is necessary for communicating on the internet. If something makes me angry, it is only because Satan has found a way into my heart. The Traveler

Welcome to the forum Michael. I am interested in your post and would like to engage in conversation. As I have considered things, it seems that there is much to take into account. I am somewhat of the opinion that there are several events, processes or scriptural ear marks. Often these things are spoken of as though they are expressions of a single event (very possible in my mind). Or they could also be separate events – though related – maybe even years, decades or more apart. I will make a list of what I believe these events are: One: The 7th Seal Two: The Last Days Three: The Gathering of Israel Four: The Restoration of all things Five: The Destruction of the Wicked Six: The Divine protection of the Righteous (pillar of fire by night and smoke by day – being caught up) Seven: Time of Turbulence. Eight: Ringing in of the Millennium Nine: Coming of Christ to reign as king Ten: Establishment of Zion (Jackson County Missouri) Eleven: The Rise of the Anti-Christ. Twelve: The battle or war of Armageddon. Thirteen: Two Witnesses protecting Jerusalem – killed and lying in the streets of Jerusalem – then being raised up I have been of the mind that the opening of the 7 seal and the ushering in of the Millennium are the same thing. Could you elaborate more detail concerning your opinion of this matter. I am open to discussion with you are anyone else that would like to join in on the discussion. The Traveler

Today (Wednesday Feb 12) there was a news release showing Musk (and his mini me) in the Oval Office with President Trump – Trump wanted Musk to talk about misused funds, but Musk has something else to announce (not sure anyone even realized). Musk is more concerned with procedure than waist – pointing out many checks being sent out without any designation for applicable authorization for why the funds were being spent. I have a brother that was a corporate manager that was involved in corporate audits and another brother that spent two missions as an auditor for the Church in Eastern Europe. Brother 1 involved in corporate audits said that writing checks without a purchase order or project number for even 20 dollars could get someone fired. Brother 2 (that did audits for the Church) told me that writing church welfare or other church distribution checks, especially to individuals, without designation for purpose would likely end a church leader’s membership. Something for my good friend @JohnsonJones . It is my understanding that congress does have the power to allocate funds but that the expenditure of funds is over seen by the president AND HIS STAFF. As I understand, congress can allocate funds, say for foreign aid specific to a country and for a projece and that the executive branch can freeze or withhold those funds at their discretion. What is not allowed is for the executive branch to spend allocated funds for specific projects to other projects favored by the executive branch but not allowed by congress. Remember when Biden bragged about withholding funds for Ukraine to stop an interior audit for a company that his son was working for? Not a single Democrat complained about that, nor did any Democrat complain that it created a constitutional crisis. ???? It may seem strange, but the executive branch of government does have executive powers. I would say something about the weaponization of the judicial branch of our government. I did not know that the judicial branch (judges) can make any ruling without any reference to the applicable law for the judgement. I did not know that a judge could say that a president can or cannot do a certain action without a reference to a specific law. Ture that in such cases the improper ruling can be overturned by a higher court. But it seems to me that with a ruling being so overturned that, especially in political cases where a judge has judicial bias and should have recused themselves should be removed in the future from any political cases. I understand that to remove a federal judge requires a 2\3 majority of the Senate. In a politically divided country where party is favored over the rule of law and the liberty of it citizens, such will never happen. The Traveler

During my travels I try to pick up enough of the native language to get by. While working in Japan I expressed to my translator my difficulty with that language (European languages are not so difficult – with the exception of Greek which has inspired the phrase – “It is all Greek to me”). My translator responded with, “It is not at all difficult, even the little children here speak the language without difficulty. When I was working in Tiawan, I was only given and translator at work. I was determined to attend Church and fasted and prayed for the spirit and divine assistance for my church experience. I found the church services very familiar with the exception of the songs. Chinese uses different tones to change the meaning of word – which makes singing standard Hymns rather strange. Since I know the sacrament prayers by heart, I thought I could pick up something from that. I could not understand a single word. I attended Sunday school. Though the teachers held up familiar pictures, I could not grasp any thought. After Sunday school the teacher approached me (obviously I was a visitor) and attempted to speak to me about the lesson. I pleaded if he could speak any English – lucky he could and with an obvious accent he asked if I enjoyed the lesson. I carefully responded that I did not understand anything, even a single word. I asked what the lesson was about. He responded that it was about “The Gift of Tongues.” The entire ward suddenly came to my aid and surrounded me with their friendship and love. The story of my lack of tongues became a rather humorous story. My time there was incredible despite the language barrier. I was even invited to speak and a missionary (son of a famous LDS celebrity) translated for me. I returned just over a year to help with some work and was remembered and welcomed back to the ward. I think that the Chinese are the kindest people on the planet. The other lesson for me is that G-d is very capable of accomplishing his will despite our expectations. The Traveler

My concern is somewhat different and has it roots in the Book of Mormon. Any concessions one makes or any dependency one has in order to sustain (especially financially sustain) in their society upon sinful practices – regardless of how unintrusive it may seem to appear – I believe creates an open door that Gadianton robbers can (and will) exploit for their benefit. There could be some possible exceptions, like treatments and recoveries of those with addiction or those harmed – but I am skeptical. I would rather fund such things with charitable donations. One thing we learn from additional taxes is that we create black market opportunities (which does play into Gadianton’s). A black-market possibility will exist not just because of financial conditions but I believe, even more for activities that are intended to be maintained “private” or as scriptures would insinuate, in the dark and hidden places. The Traveler

On the surface a sin tax may seem like a good idea, but I have come to think otherwise. Spiritually there is a reference to ill gotten gains and filthy lucre. I do not believe that a covenant disciple of Christ ought to in any way rely on sin and think there is somehow a possible benefit. The church will not knowingly accept tithing or donations from funds ill obtained – including from gambling and lotteries. In the Book of Mormon, we are told of wealth (gold, silver and other things) that was so corrupted by evil that G-d caused such to be lost in the earth to never be recovered. I have strongly considered that taxes (and military obligation) ought to be voluntary and the means to become a full citizen with voting rights and holding legal positions within the government. The Traveler

Thank you @zil2 : In another thread I presented the scripture notion of line upon line upon and precept upon precept upon precept. Initially we read this in Isaiah. Some think that there are other ways to “translate” this, but we are given the same translation in the Book of Mormon and through several prophets and apostles in conference talks. Abraham chapter 3 is given in ancient Egyptian "scientific" understanding. We have a parallel to this in D&C86 that is given in Newtonian level of scientific understanding. Through the restoration we are given multiple witnesses – not just in scripture but in law, ordinance and covenants (mostly in the temple). The ancient understanding of someone that sought the law, ordinance and covenants of G-d (temple worship) were described as the “Righteous”. Thos that transgressed the law, changed the ordinances and broke the covenants were called the “Wicked”. The term “stiff nick” in the Book of Mormon is a direct reference to accepting covenants in the temple. I believe that the Book of Mormon is the great key to understanding. In 3Nephi Jesus tells us that he, the Christ “suffered” from the beginning. I am not sure we interpret the “suffering of Christ” correctly. I think that from the very “beginning” Jesus “atoned” or "suffered" for our fall and our sins. Even before the fall and our commission of sins. All of which enabled the “Plan of Salvation” in order for us to partake of G-d’s mercy to the fulfilling of justice. That without Christ there is neither mercy nor divine justice. There is one final element to the law, ordinance and covenant that completes the mercy and justice of G-d. That final element is our investment, which is called repentance. Part of our repentance is to see things in a new “light” such that we abhor sin "darkness" and desire to be one with G-d (and his Son Jesus Christ). The Traveler

I believe all citizens should be taxed on their economic increase – similar to a tithing tax for the citizens of the Kingdom of Heaven. The Traveler

Perhaps it is possible that Klaw is yeowling about things of little or no spiritual significance – beyond the consideration that all things should be loved and appreciated in their proper order. First to love G-d, second to love your human neighbors (hard for me to love humans that I do not like very much), and then once you have accomplished such, that we love all good things that G-d has created. 😁 The Traveler

I am not sure about such reports of upsetting our allies. I am hearing reports that the entire world is has hope for changes. Especially in that USAID if funding. I am hearing that very few like the intrusive manner USAID is spent contrary to county’s culture and traditions. I also have insights inside of Mexico. That our border needs to be fixed but there is more than just what is flowing into the USA – many in Mexico are concerned with how the cartels are financed and armed. They claim that the US government and media focuses on just one side of the border problem. That they suffer for more than us because of our border policies. This make me wonder if the cartels have as much influence in USA politics and procedures as they do in Mexico. What concerns me more than anything is that the Democrats in the USA are so united and fixed on stopping the opening up of transparency in all our governments and NGO processes. @JohnsonJones – I would be specifically interested in what governments are upset with Trump’s initiatives. And is such governments are deeply imbedded in LGBTQ+ and against traditional families. The Traveler

Some thoughts: I was taking a religion class at BYU in my previous life. The professor made an interesting statement (obviously tongue-in-cheek), that if he caught anyone praying during the exam, he would confiscate their exam, and they would fail the class. He said that we were to rely on our own work and preparation for the exam. Another thought: Scripture tells us that we learn line upon line upon line and precept upon precept upon precept. We are also encouraged to gather together often. I think one reason to gather is to share our spiritual precepts. The problem is that so many seem to think of scripture as a singularity. That each verse has one and only one intended meaning. I am of the mind that there is much more to D&C 8:2-3 than the idea that revelation (including the spirit of revelation) is the essence of information and understanding. For example, I have the impression that there is power and intelligence within the spirit of revelation. The reason I use the terms power and intelligence is because the power to do things, like crossing the Red Sea on dry ground, has elements of both power and intelligence. The same holds true of the creation and even other things that are given by revelation (translating scripture – understanding scripture in general.) I do not believe that a scripture is understood by the spirit of revelation unless someone is motivated to repent and change. One definition of repentance is to “see” things in a new light or perspective in such a manner that we are changed – not just in our thinking. The Traveler

It looks like there is a deal with Mexico to gain better control of our border with them. I am especially excited to hear that the USA is going to end illegal military grade arms flowing into Mexico. Without drugs and human trafficking (modern terms for slavery) the cartels will be at risk for survival. One other hole in this border with Mexico is stolen black market petroleum coming to the USA to petroleum companies through black market deals controlled by the cartels. I believe there is a possibility that Mexico will benefit more from Trump’s deals than the USA. I also think that there is something rotten in the DC swamp protecting the cartel control of our southern border. I doubt this will all go silently into the night. I wonder if the politicians that support the cartel are being uncovered. Canada, on the other hand, does not seem to understand what is going on nor what is actually at stake. As of now, it would seem that the Canadians are hating Trump but as things move forward – there may be big changes coming to Canada. China is an enigma to me. I am guessing that China will pull back and sit this one out – waiting for a political change in the USA. But if Trump’s AI push happens – China will lose the AI initiative. I believe the big question will come down to who want on board the Trump train verses those intent on stopping it. To what extent will opposition to the Trump train go to stop it (both at home and abroad)? The Traveler

I agree with your post. I would add that I see no benefit in drawing any conclusion. @prisonchaplain, whom I respect greatly quoted from scripture. However, from what I know about ancient Biblical textual criticism – I would consider that Biblical scripture in our modern version as not reliable enough. I would rather think in terms of realizing that there is possibly more to this drama. But I must also admit that this is a topic for which I have little interest. Thanks for your post – I hope to hear more from you. The Traveler

I read your question some time ago and did not think I had anything to answer – leaving this to others thinking perhaps to learn. However, I was reading in the Book of Mormon. In particular in Helaman chapter 10 starting with verse 7 and giving explanation in the following verses 8 and 9. More is explained in this chapter that gives indication for what purpose this power is given. If I understand it correctly – it is a power reserved for prophets and is somewhat specific for preparing for the coming of the L-rd. Thank you for asking the question. The Traveler