Traveler

When I was in the bishopric, we had 4 small children and the two older boys were difficult for my wife to handle by herself. I asked the bishop if I could have one of my boys sit with me on the stand. It worked and my boys were better behaved for it. As a side note – not so long ago, as a member of the Elder’s quorum presidency, I was left to preside without any other priesthood leadership – everybody else was out of town. As it turned out all the others on the stand were ladies. Both the talks, youth speaker, music conductor, organists and opening prayer. Those blessing the sacrament and the ward clerk sat at the far sides of the stans so they did not really count. I took the opportunity to comment that sitting on the stand in the midst of such spiritual ladies, that I felt like a lion in a den of Danials. The Traveler

Greetings @Jersey Boyand @zil2 I do not intend to hijack your discussion but rather perhaps join in a little. I think the concerns and thoughts about fair and just as expressed by @Jersey Boy are valid points. As I have contemplated myself what happens between birth and death, and I am convinced that this is not sufficient to determine anything related to justice, fairness nor agency. I have concluded that something must exist before birth as well as after death to mitigate justice, fairness and agency. We are told that we will maintain the same spirit (attitude?) after we die that we pursued in life. I am not sure I understand what that means – though I have some ideas. In essence we retain our identity of who we are. As to having faith in Jesus Christ as suggested by @zil2. I see such faith as entirely too ambiguous. How can we have the necessary faith in Christ if we have incorrect ideas of his nature and purpose (among other things)? I had several public debates with an individual (Chris Allen - ) on the subject, “Does G-d exist”. I conceded the debate when I was able to realize his concept, understanding and definition of G-d. I conceded because I did not believe that such a being existed or could possibly exist. Since he did not understand my concept of G-d – I could not see any reason to continue. In short I do not believe that having faith in the mis concepts of Jesus Christ is any more beneficial than not having faith at all – thus the reason for learning the truth of Christ in the spirit world so we can have valid faith in him and his atonement. Thus, it is my understanding that there is not a second chance as it is a valid and true chance. The Traveler

Thanks! We no longer cook a turkey per say but purchase what is called the Norbest turkey roll or roast. What is unique about a turkey roll is that there are no bones. It seems to cook better and maintain the moisture – making leftovers much better. We have also dropped the traditional potatoes for a mixed veggie plater – health reasons. I am grateful and thankful. What is interesting to me is that when I returned from the military and mission – to normal life, I had difficulty adjusting. A native American (mission companion and friend) suggested that I consider a spiritual quest and 40 day fast in the desert wilderness of southern Utah eating and drinking only what G-d and nature would provide. Having lived off the land for a few weeks I came across a little stream of pure sparkling water and a wild (open range chicken). I do not think I have ever been more grateful and thankful for a meal. After eating everything else and a few days later – I boiled down the bones until the were soft enough to eat – basically all that was left were feathers, beak and claws. Hopefully all on the forum had a Thanksgiving Day that they were thankful for. The Traveler

I really like your concept of faith. I will not pretend to understand faith anymore than anyone else, my life’s work was as an engineer and scientist and see much through that filter. I have some difficulty just decerning the difference between faith, belief and knowledge. During my lifetime I have seen the scientific understanding of things change greatly. I remember learning about neutrinos in my quantum physics courses in college. Back then no one seemed to understand or think that neutrinos had much to do with anything of consequence in the universe. Now, it is believed that neutrinos are the key component that drives everything that exists in the creation and forming of the universe as we currently think we know it. In religion we learn a little bit about the levels of glory within the kingdom of G-d and with that little understanding we may think we know, individual by individual who is worthy of what level of glory. I think what we start to do is compare ourselves to what we think we know of others. Generally, we are likely to think we will be in the highest Celestial glory. Then we compare ourselves to others or others to ourselves thinking we have a decent idea if they will make it or not. I believe it is not for us to decide what degree of glory anyone other than ourselves are achieving. Not those we think righteous as well as those we think wicked. The only person we really know that much about is ourselves. The real and only question for us to understand is if we are willing to exercise our faith to achieve Celestial Glory. President Nelsen has admonished us to “Think Celestial”. Jesus said as we think so are we and so shall we become. I am beginning to think that like neutrinos that are so unaffected by anything else and have such difficulty interacting with anything we may start out thinking we are worthless. But then, as we begin to understand where we came from and where we can go and what we can do – we can have faith in what we (and everyone else) can impact and become. The Traveler

Season’s Greetings: I felt that there were a lot of comments that addressed trends or culture within various segments of the LDS community but were not accurately representative of covenants and covenantal worthiness. I thought that the concept of discipline ought to have been stressed -- that nothing of value is ever accomplished without some degree of discipline. I also felt that the LDS prime directive of “Agency” as being the primary litmus between good and evil (AKA Satan’s objection towards G-d) was not properly discussed when questions arose about the LDS notion of others not falling in line with LDS theology. The Traveler

Season’s Greetings and thanks for your input: A couple of points. I completely agree that both the major parties in the USA have connections to corrupt secret organizations (combinations). But concerning the direct backing of Hamas – I am not aware of a single Republican elected at the federal level that openly supports Hamas and calls Israel terrorists. If anyone can name such an elected official in the Republican party – I would be most interested. I would rase question about the Hamas - Iranian connection since Hamas is hard core Sunni. A fact I have not heard any conservatives in the media to make the connection or realize the ramifications. The Traveler

I will admit it was somewhat interesting to have a point of view from the generation of my grandkids. For example, they talked about the times in which we live. The LDS fellow seem to feel that things are not so urgent (to have a supply of food and be prepared in other ways). I have always had the opinion that the urgency of the last days (end of times) is built into the very name of the church. That the reason we send out missionaries is because this is the last days and the last chance – not necessarily for individuals (because of our work for the dead) but for the institutions, governments and principalities of the world. The purpose of the missionaries is to gather those that intend to be prepared by covenant to welcome Christ and the era of peace. The Traveler

What political party has factions that support the taking of Jews (especially targeting families – women, children and elderly) – not for any individual crime, that those taken specifically committed, other than being Jewish, gaslighting and blaming all Jews in general for the troubles and failures to accomplish totalitarian political objectives. Granted there are divisions within the democrat party that do not support the Palestinian raids initiating the current conflict – but there is a faction that does. For political purposes the rest of the party, in essence, allows things to happen that should not be occurring. As a side note (having been to Israel) – the Jews tolerate other variant points of view much more in Israel than do the Palestinians in Gaza. Generally political parties tend to object to variant points of view and blame a opposition political party especially with less power for problems they that are in power cannot solve – but it does appear to me the one party is better at attaching blame than accomplishing than the other - though not by much. The Traveler

I will be traveling to Australia next year but will not be visiting Alice Springs - maybe another time. It does look a little amateurish but fun. The family I grew up in has always been driven by at least some level of risk. I have a brother that has built a 3-man land yacht. Not so much for competition but for fun. Here in Utah, we have old lake beds (like the Bonneville Salt Flats) – not just little dry creaks. A couple of years ago they tumbled their yacht going about 80 mph. Generally, white water rafting is safter. I avoid the class 4 hydraulics rivers like the Colorado and Cataract Canyon (my rafts are smaller). Two of my brothers have equipment for the heave stuff. I run mostly class 3 hydraulics with more family (over 12) orientated intent. We have expedited with as many as 60 – 70. My kids run most of the show now. The Traveler

Who would have thought that a faction within the democrat’s party and without white supremacy would otherwise gleefully fly the banner, intent and purpose of the Nazis? The Traveler

The conflict of war and violence is an impossible labyrinth to navigate and not become spiritually wounded – let alone physically affected. The worst part of being involved in such things is dealing with the problems conflict imposes on individuals affected. The worst of these problems come from how we support those on the front lines of the conflict. This applies not just to war but also to those that protect us as what we refer to as our first responders. Perhaps one of the worst problems is not trusting those we send to or expect to defend the “front lines”. If we make what is often called a red line (especially a red line that is known to our enemies) we will lose the battles being fought at the front lines. If it was me – I would like to have the virtue of Candace, but I also realize that in Vietnam (while I was in the military) some of our soldiers were killed by children as young as 5 and women carrying babies. I believe it inevitable in war or dealing with drug cartels and human traffickers (or any unscrupulous criminals) that any publicly known red line will result in the sacrifice of our best, most honorable and most obedient front-line defenders eventually leaving us to defend ourselves against those with no red line. We know how things ended in the Book of Mormon. Our defense is our faith in G-d but if we are losing – what does that mean about our faith? If we are divided and our faith in G-d cannot unite us - we have already lost. The one thing that will most likely divide anyone – is to not understand or believe the tactics of our enemy. Those unwilling to engage the enemy and stop them have already lost. The Traveler

Greetings @Backroads : I hate windows and Microsoft – that said there are ways to fix your problem, but it will require someone that has access to your computer and operating system’s back door. Some companies have knowledgeable IT specialists that can operate within the scope of company hardware and operating systems license. If you are not one of these companies, you are at the mercy of a 3rd party vendor. Make sure they are legit – and get verification of who receives your computer. Make sure your company authorizes your sending a computer to whoever. In the future – I suggest you keep a copy of your usernames and passwords. I keep them on my phone in a coded format that I know (so does my wife). I realize that there is a prophesy in the Book of Mormon about society becoming so corrupt that personal things cannot be protected – the wording is that they become slippery and are taken. If you are attached to things associated with your computer – realize that they are at risk. I wish you well and hope your problems will not expand. The Traveler

Welcome to the forum - I hope to hear more form you: Since you have posted, I hope you did so expecting to engage in meaningful discussions. I am of the mind that according to the principles of agency and free will; making judgements is a critical skill required of all those that covenant with G-d. However, I see two very important parts of making righteous judgements that the saints of G-d need to be aware. The first is that when we employ judgements concerning others that we employ love and compassion and avoid condemning them (in essence not believing that they can or will repent). The second element of judgements are that concerning spiritual and gospel judgements we are to use such understanding for ourselves to self-evaluate our spiritual progress during our mortal probation. For example – we have the commandment (associated with our Sabbath covenant) to Keep the Sabbath Day Holy. Part of my personal covenant is to attend Sunday worship services under the direction of the Melchizedek priesthood. There can be exceptions – for example, if one is visiting Israel the LDS Sabbath worship services are held on Saturday. I also realize that my covenants do not apply to others and that I should not expect them to. I believe the reason we are told of qualification to obtain the various glories withing the Kingdom of G-d when we are resurrected – is so we can know what we ought to do (ourselves) to qualify our thoughts and action within the circumstances and challenges we face. Since we do not know what other intend to obtain by their agency – it is not our right to impose our agency upon others. It is the imposition of one's agency upon others that caused Lucifer to sin and become Satan the father of lies. Not for us to condemn him but rather that we can apply such knowledge to exercise our agency for what we will become. The Traveler

It has long been a principle of the Church that the home is the center of educating children. That other resources can be utilized at the discretion of the parents. From “The Family Proclamation”: The Traveler

I have checked out the civil war between Shapiro and Owens. Both arguments are sound. There are at least two problems with war. The first is the willingness to do whatever is necessary to win the war and the second is living with ourselves after we have done it. We call it collateral damage. It is the excuse for doing something horrible in order to hopefully avoid something worse. Today we know that dropping the A-bomb on Japan was not actually necessary. Japan was willing to surrender but there was a misconception in what unconditional surrender meant. One of the problems is doing what you think is necessary in war and discovering after the fact that it was not. The other problem is that it is worse to lose a conflict when it could have been won but you were not willing to do what was necessary. Owens is arguing New Testament arguments and Shapiro is arguing Old Testament arguments. I believe I could argue either and win in the arena of US politics. But I believe if one is a disciple of Christ – I am more with Owens. But the argument is not what you or I ought to do. It is about Israel. I believe that they have the right to defend themselves because Hamas stepped over the line between good and evil and now what to do to make peace the best human way possible. I am sorry for Israel because I believe that all the hostages will be lost regardless of what Israel does - the reason they were taken. The table was set that to deal with Hamas, Israel would, of necessity, lose the moral high ground, considering the loss of collateral damage. But that is exactly the expectation of Hamas. The question now is, in the eyes of the world – who is most responsible for the escalation of collateral damage. I have wondered how it could possibly come to pass that, according to prophesy, the world would turn against Israel. I believe the more important question is – how quickly can things progress? And how will those that seek peace will avoid getting caught up with the world and what is happening because of the evil in it. For LDS we can look to our prophets. According to our covenants - it is like the snake image on the pole of Moses. If we look we will be okay - those that do not have such faith will be infected by the poison of the vipers. The Traveler

About 45 years ago I became involved in whitewater rafting. The reason is that I believed it to be the best family activity that I had ever encounter. I believed that there are many lessons learned on the river that have lifelong applications. One such application is learning how to read a river. It is not the surface that needs to be read but what is somewhat hidden deep below the surface. Part of this understanding has to do with how much water if flowing – the amount of water moving can be peaceful when the river is wide but the personality of the river changes drastically when the river channel narrows or during spring runoff. This is a sizing problem – what seems harmless and peaceful for a few or low water flow changes when flow is up ticked; the river many can be treacherous, especially when deep down things are somewhat “broken” up. I do not believe that the current river of life is being read very well – especially by those in the political and media (both informative and entertainment) arena. Religious prophesy (both ancient in many religions and modern or LDS prophesy) supports strongly what is currently being labeled as family values and connections to healthy living. I believe that deep down and hidden in society things are somewhat broken up and channels for flow are narrowing. Allow me two social issues that are broken. 1 debt – especially compound interest debt. In Islam compound interest debt is the first sign of the great Satan. It is the excuse of Islamic terrorism (including Bin Laden and his letter to America) and the spark in the tinder of the current war in Israel. The sins of wealth flow in most all religions. Jesus taught about the corruption of wealth acquired from what anciently was known as or called “filthy lucre. Compound banking (I and Hugh Nibley) believe to be one source of filthy lucre. 2 Another source of filthy lucre is human trafficking that includes slavery and addictions (including LGBTQ+). Sadly, it would seem that religious terrorists ignore this element and deep-down things that are broken up. Of cource we can easly included things like rape and violence and pleasure addictions (both sexual, physical and even what I would call spiritual addictions). I should not have to explain the evil involved in human trafficking and addictions but many think that some moderation is okay. Things like caffeine drinks, sugar, overeating and unhealthy sedate lifestyles (laziness or slothfulness – that many confuse thinking they are being relaxed or patient). Granted such minor addictions are not as corrupt as others – but like a river the things we ignore, do not notice, or things for which we do not prepare are our greatest threats. I have highlighted these two. If anyone wants to discuss these or others in greater detail – I would be interested in the application of ideas to these last days and the division between Zion and Babylon. It is my believe that the righteous (those that make and keep covenants with G-d) have no reason to fear. I believe that a great reason to fear is for those that believe in G-d but make some excuse for not being loyal to G-d’s covenants and wisdom. Side note - I do not believe one can connect to G-d's wisdom with out covenants nor do I believe that one is loyal to G-d's covenants has any problem with (including the understanding of) G-d's wisdom. The Traveler

While serving a mission it was my intent to work with bishops and stake presidents in my area. I learned a great deal from them. On one occasion I was talking with a stake president about miracles and how great miracles are linked to the priesthood. The spirit was strong, and the stake president decided to share with me an experience he had when he was somewhat inactive (an experience he had only shared once before). He was in the company of an average person that was not known for great spiritual things. In a moment lives were placed in great danger – the person he was with was the only priesthood holder there. This person rose to his feet and by the power of the priesthood commanded a mountain to move. In an instant and without a sound the mountain moved, and several lives were saved – including that of the stake president speaking to me. I have left out much of what was told me because of the sacredness of it. Because of the miracle this stake president repented and became active – not wavering since. He told me that the fellow in his company was as astonished as was he and likewise repented and became more stalwart. That his actions in the moment were not his own. The spirit bore witness to me that indeed a mountain was moved – that some that witnessed the event had no idea what happened. We do live in a time of miracles – and perhaps one reason that we do not hear more is because, as Isaiah said to King Ahaz, (in essence) “You do not see and cannot believe because you are not loyal to your covenants with G-d). Perhaps more now than in the days of Isaiah are our covenants more challenged. The Traveler

I thought to add some thoughts. Because of COVID many wards throughout the church started streaming Sunday services on Zoom. During COVID I taught the 12-14 year old youth Sunday School Class on Zoom. My personal assessment was that this Zoom effort was a dismal failure for the youth. Those that I know that dealt with youth via Zoom agreed. Now that the worst of COVID has passed many wards still broadcast just the adult Sunday services – or at least that is what my current ward does. The most sacred part of our worship services (the sacrament covenant) is not streamed. To have this most sacred of our covenant worship in our home requires special permission through the keys of the priesthood. Without the sacrament covenant there is little of spiritual value to the streaming. For fun, I watched the Sunday service. For those that are not LDS (we have some that post on this forum) – this peek into LDS Sabbath culture is nothing short of amazing. I thought it most interesting that the topic was tithes and offerings. There was some reference on this forum about mega churches and there emphasis on offering that make the ministers exceptionally wealthy. I thought the video was most interesting because of the discussions on this forum. Not one person in the video would be recipient of any tithes or offerings from that Sabbath worship. The talks were amazing – yet none would receive any monetary reward because of their talk. Our current Prophet leader of our church is Pres. Nelsen. His profession was cardiac surgeon – he was exceptional in his craft and was recognized worldwide for his contributions to cardiac surgery. Successful cardiac surgeons make a much above average income. As head of a multibillion-dollar organization – his current is basically intended to cover incurred expenses. Likely his home is above average or upper middle class. When President Monson was the head of the same multibillion-dollar organization his home was lower middle class. Both had paid off their home before being called to full time church leadership positions. Their net worth was not increased because of their church calling. The concept of wealth, surplus and offerings from the “Law of Consecration” are in stark contrast to what I have seen in other church and especially governments and government public relief programs. The concept of consecration is a means of making money (as well as goods and services) sacred and holy – which is the ancient meaning of making or offering sacrifice. Not the giving up of something but rather making such sacred. In other words, only by sacrifice by the giver are offerings made sacred rather than by the offering or the making of the offering (a point made by the final speaker in the video). Thaks for the video @askandanswer The Traveler

Only mankind are in need of covenant (solemnized in morality) for their eternal salvation. The Traveler

Greetings @prisonchaplain: In response to your questions about the Jews and the 144,000 I have sought how to answer. I will begin with providing you a link to the journal of the LDS apostle and prophet, Elder Orson Hyde who was commanded by G-d to travel to the Holy Land and dedicate that land for the gathering of the Jews in the Last-days. His record is dated Nov 22, 1841. His journal entry gives some indication of the troubles in the area. His dedicatory prayer is prophetic and most has obviously been fulfilled as a testament to its truthfulness and that these are the last-days. The Link: http://www.vibrationdata.com/Orson_Hyde.htm#:~:text=%22Do%20Thou%20arise%20in%20the,clothe%20her%20Priests%20with%20salvation. I believe that this dedication is prophetic scripture but currently is not included in our standard works – perhaps at a later time. It is my understanding that during this time of the last-days that the world (including the Jews) will experience troubles as prophesied concerning the last-days. However, the Jews and the covenant Saints are under blessing afforded for the last-days – but this does not mean they will not experience hardships or threats (like unto Daniel and his brethren) just that they will be comforted by the spirit. As things progress – it is my understanding that a coalition of evil will be established among the nations to destroy Israel (the Jews in Jerusalem) that have gathered as a nation according to the prophesy of Orson Hyde. This coalition will be centered in the ancient kingdom of Gog and Magog which I believe to be either between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea or close by. I cannot say I know but it appears that the “Axis of Evil” currently of Iran, Russia and China that initially was focused on Ukraine could be the beginning of such a coalition. This coalition will bring violence throughout the world – I believe we are currently seeing a beginning of this. An army will invade Israel. I speculate that nuclear weapons will be involved, so that land will burn for 7 years. A final battle will commence upon the Jews gathered in Jerusalem. Two prophet witnesses (which is our LDS definition of apostle) will protect the Jews with divine power until they (the two witnesses) are killed in the streets of Jerusalem. This event I believe will be celebrated worldwide. As the army enters Jerusalem to destroy the Jews an earthquake will take place stopping the army and the mount of olives will split open. The Jews will seek refuge there and Jesus will appear unto them and show his wounds in his hands, feet and side – this will mark the prophesy of the Jews converting unto Jesus as the Christ. Following this Jesus will come and appear to the world in power and glory and ending all governments of men. Concerning the 144,000. I understand that this is a prophesy concerning a solemn assembly that will be held at Adam-ondi-Ahman. We (LDS) believe this is the place where Adam and Eve, after being removed from the Garden of Eden, built an alter unto G-d and offered sacrifices. After many days an angel of G-d appeared to Adam and Eve and asked why they offered sacrifices. Adam responded that he did not know why only that G-d commanded him. He was then told that such sacrifices were symbolic of the sacrifice that Jesus the Christ would make to atone for the fall of man and all the sins of the world. Adam-ondi-Ahman is believed to be a sacred place like unto the place where Moses encountered the burning bush. The 144,000 will be high priest of the order of Melchizedek. There will be 12,000 high priest that have been given “Keys” to the priesthood of each of the houses (tribes) of Israel. I believe your idea that some will be of ancient time is quite possible. In addition to these high priests there will also be Moses, Noah, Melchizedek, Enoch, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Adam (and others that preceded the house of Israel). All the keys of all dispensations will be gathered by Adam that will present these keys to Jesus Christ in preparation of his coming and reign on earth. How much this solemn assembly will be known unto the world – I cannot say. Even though I am a high priest of the order of Melchizedek – I cannot say with assuredly that I will even know when this solemn assembly takes place. The Traveler

Correction the 12 among the Nephites were called 12 diciples and were not (according to my understanding) a quorum of 12 apostles but 12 diciples. The Traveler

Greetings @JohnsonJones: I have come to many of your same conclusions through different processes of thinking. I will not pretend that I am more right but here are some of my thoughts. All life as we know it – including both the plant and animal kingdoms operate upon the same principles of DNA and replicate themselves in the same manner beginning at the cellar level. I have apotheosized the possibility that in the creation of life, G-d used his own DNA and genetically engineered all living things. I am not going into much detail but by genetically engineering various life forms from a common type, it would seem that evolution of life to be quite feasible. Scripture tells us that Adam was the first man. We see this as a singular possible interpretation. However, anciently the first or first born did not mean the oldest but rather the best or most noble. This can correlate with two concepts. The first is in line with your hypothesis that modern man could have been created through a process of genetically engineering and evolution and once a species in the image and likeness of G-d had been established a spirit that was a spirit son or daughter of G-d would be given to an existing species. This would also fulfill the definition that Adam being the first man was indeed the first or most noble modern man to obtain the spirit offspring of G-d. This would also explain how modern man today has the genetic links (DNA) of previous species. The term “Sons of G-d” designates a specific covenant with G-d – we see this in D&C 84 in the explanation of the priesthood covenant. The term “daughters of men” likewise could designate a covenant made of a more worldly type. So, the scripture reference could designate a wavering of covenant or as you have suggested – a mingling with another species of humans or mingling with less devoted. Your concepts concerning the Nephites – I believe has application. However, I speculate that the intermingling with others may have occurred before the Lehites arrived in the Americas. Anciently the Arabians were seaworthy and capable of ship building. The legend of Sinbad does have application. A study of ancient Aribia correlates with Nephi building a ship in the land of Bountiful where there was fruit and wild honey harvested. Locals could have been utilized and brought along as servants. We know that Lehi was wealthy so it is quite likely that they were use to servants. Also such servants were not considered important enough (among the Egyptians) to make note of them in official records. Also note that Jacob was quite upset with concubines. Anciently a concubine was a wife (including plural wives) that did not come into marriage with a dowery. As a side not here – I do not recommend that this information be given to one’s spouse with the question of – if they are your wife or concubine. There is a lot of fuss that the Lamanites (native Americans as identified by Joseph Smith or other native Americans) do not have Jewish DNA markers. But the primary markers used are mitochondria which follows the female line. The Traveler

Greetings @CommanderSouth: I would present something quite different in the discussion of freewill or determinism. Before I get into the rudiments of thought I would present my background. I am a retired scientist and engineer that worked in the field of industrial automation, robotics and artificial intelligence. Prior to retirement I worked as a consultant. When a complex automated system is to be put into place there are several stages in the process. We begin with a requirement phase, followed by a design phase, then a development phase, then a testing phase and finely the implementation phase. There are also two things to keep in mind. First: that each phase has several sub level phases and second that there is not a fine line between phases but rather a gradual shift. It is not unlikely that newly discovered requirements, of necessity, are added after the initial requirement phase – sometimes additional requirements are added during the implementation phase. Most likely the entire process will be repeated, and versions of development be added (released) over time. In short, seldom is there a definite beginning or end. I have often wondered about freewill verses determinism. I have concluded that in order for freewill to exist there must be more than just a choice. For example, a blind choice of what is behind doors A, B and C – is not, in my opinion, an exercise in freewill (or Agency). There must be knowledge – not just a knowledge of choice (or choices) but a knowledge of outcome of choice. Otherwise, the choice is blind and in essence an ignorant choice of what is behind a door. I have also concluded that if we are to look at any subset of development – what is taking place will not appear to be freewill but rather an acting out of determination. At this point I would present the concept that we are complex beings in a process of becoming a completed divinely intelligent being. That the initial course of the process began in a pre-existence. That our mortal experience is just a phase of our becoming and that there will be another phase after we die. If one only measures what occurs between birth and death – the only ration conclusion is that freewill and agency does not exist and that our individual fate is well determined. If there is to be any possibility of freewill (agency) then there must, of necessity, be something of significance before birth as well as after death. We are told in scripture that our mortal probation is in essence a testing phase. In my work, testing was not intended to pass or fail – determine heaven or hell. But rather an experiment under extreme conditions to determine capabilities and also to determine what changes are needed to be made to meet the requirements. I want to stress the idea that testing is not to determine failure but rather what improvements are needed or required. I would submit that our mortal life is specifically designed to test our individual capabilities, especially under certain extreme circumstances. I would also submit that the extent of our testing was well thought out and designed to our particular freewill and agency in cooperation between ourselves and our Father in Heaven. Thus comparing ourselves to others in this life is a fruitless exercise. Our purpose is to complete our testing scripts – not anyone else’s. In so doing we fulfill our freewill and agency – even though in this life only, it all looks like determinism. According to the Gospel of Christ, our only concern is to get through our testing phase loving G-d and our fellow men. That is all that we need to achieve during this life in order to be ready for our next phase of development. The Traveler

Most likely, until now, she was thinking that she was G-d. The Traveler

I thought this would already be posted but sinse it is not - just letting the forum know. I am sadden. The Traveler