Traveler

I do not follow your line of thinking. Could you please explain? In a manner that I could understand. Please do not mind if I have some questions regarding your logic to clarify what I am not getting. The Traveler

It seem rather obvious that neither Biden nor Harris were ever in charge of anything. Even in the 2020 presidential campaign there was no effort to allow the public access to serious opinions of the dual (if such existed). I do not believe Ezra’s Eagle properly symbolizes what is going on. Kind of like the ugly stepsister with a toe in the glass slipper that openly declares it is a perfect fit. As for Trump??? It seems to me that there is an element deeply entrenched in our government that resembles something similar to Kishkumen, Gadianton and their behind-the-scenes organization. I would suggest that the Book of Mormon (Helaman & 3Nephi) and the Holy Spirit are the best sources of things leading up to a coming of Christ – especially as thing apply to what is going on in our government. The Traveler

We need a wink wink emoji 😎 The Traveler

It never ceases to amaze me how much Republican overestimate themselves and underestimate the Democrats. Once again demonstrating that the more things change the more they will remain the same. The Traveler

The full title of the Gospel I referenced is "The Gospel of the Birth of Mary". The copy that I have in my library was taken (translated) from the private text in the library Jerome (consider a Father of the Church). In this case the church is the Catholic Church. As with many Biblical text there are other copies (some among the Gnostic texts) with significant differences. The Traveler

Other than Jesus, Mary is the primary character in the nativity epoch in scripture. But scripture provides very little about Mary. One of the oldest New Testament ancient texts is the Gospel (Good News) of Mary. For this season I will summarize things written anciently about Mary. Previous to Mary’s birth an angel appeared to Mary’s expectant mother to proclaim the birth of “a woman above all others”. The angel said that the baby should be named Mary. When Mary was born there were signs in the heavens (I am not sure what that means). Mary’s mother was so impressed with the sacredness of the child that while Mary was still and infant she was taken to the temple in Jerusalem and given to the high priest to be raised as a virgin. Some believe that a girl raised to serve G-d was properly called a virgin – a meaning somewhat different than what we understand in our modern era. The child was given to a childness couple to raise that the husband was a priest at the temple. The names of the couple were Zacharias and Elisabeth. I believe this would indicate that Mary (Jesus and John the Baptist) was not really related in ways normally thought. This is because Zacharias would have been a Levite and because he served in the temple – likely so was his wife. Jesus was of the house of David (through his mother). Another note here – The Dead Sea Scroll community (then known as Damascus) was a community of Priests that performed ordinances at the temple. I speculate (do not know) that it is possible Mary was actually raised in the wilderness community or with associations to it. As Mary grew, she became a rather stunningly beautiful girl – so much so that she became a problem. Zacharias also knew she was a sacred and divinely appointed child determined that she should marry but not just anybody – someone uniquely qualified. Zacharias knew of an older man who had older children but has lost his wife and decided that Joseph should marry Mary. When Joseph was approached, he refused because he was much older (likely 3 times Mary’s age) and to marry such a young girl would not be proper. Though reluctant, Joseph eventually agreed. Because Joseph was reluctant, I speculate this was the reason that he quickly wanted out of the marriage and needed an angel to convince him otherwise. Because Joseph was previously married the brothers of Jesus mentioned in scripture would have been older than him, no younger. Joseph was not well to do but he was not considered impoverished by the standards of the day. It is likely that less than 1% of the Jewish society was wealthy enough to offer the higher-grade sacrifices (not little birds). According to the Gospel of Mary she rode a donkey from Nazareth to Bethlehem. Also, according to the Gospel of Mary there was never a discussion with an Inn keeper over a room – that because there were so many in Bethlehem at the time – Joseph never even asked but went to a shelter for not so rich travelers. At the shelter animals were also housed but in separate places nearby where they could be carefully watched. But there was not a lot of furniture and people slept on the ground. After the birth of Jesus, we learn from the Gospel of Mary that Zacharias was murdered on the steps of the temple. I speculate that John the Baptiste was then taken by his mother into the wilderness to the community from which we get the Dead Sea Scrolls. I believe within myself that Mary was more important than many realize – both in regard to raising Jesus the Christ but also in spiritually establishing the early Apostolic Church. I also speculate that Mary did not taste death but was taken in the same manner as other we are told of. There are many great individuals throughout the history of mankind as well as the covenant society of G-d – I do not think any (Jesus Christ excepted) that played a greater role in the divine Plan of Salvation than Mary. The Traveler

Not at BYU - all kinds of players will, on occiasian, pass the ball. The Traveler

I thought to add some other things few know about plural marriage. After the birth of Issac, Abraham took a concubine (Keturah) in marriage and had more sons. Anciently the difference between a wife and a concubine was that a wife came to the marriage with a dowery that belonged to her and if there was any kind of separation the dowery had to be returned to her and her children. It was common for a dowery to come with land and servants – and even treaties with families that could include armies and other assets. Upon the death of Abraham, Issac inherited the birthright but Abraham other sons inherited land and wealth that became the rise of other nations known in the Bible records. A descendant of Abraham through Keturah established the Midianite kingdom. When Moses fled from Egypt he came into contact with Midian priest, Reuel, a Midianite that ordained Moses to the priesthood and prepared him to deliver Israel. Moses also married his daughter Zipporah (Exodus 2). In Jacob chapter 2 (Book of Mormon) G-d points out that the Nephites (by commandment) were to only have one wife and no concubines. But it is pointed out that it is possible for G-d to command otherwise to “raise up seed unto him” (verse 30). I understand that this means one only takes additional wives (or concubines) as commanded by G-d (as was Abraham). Taking additional wives without commandment will bring a curse upon the land (verse 29). As we read in the Book of Mormon we learn that even the wickedness of a few can bring difficulty upon many (the reason for so many wars). I believe there is a connection to social violence and “whoredoms” in a society. The Traveler

I have a few ancestors that were part of the Church’s polygamy society. One particular ancestor was quite worried about the practice of polygamy within the Church. His claim was that many that practiced polygamy were guilty of gross sin and that their wickedness would bring about great condemnations of the Church. I am inclined to believe that polygamy as instructed by divine commandment is not understood. A story from my ancestorial history. My great grandfather was commanded to take on an additional wife. My great grandfather turned down the “recommendation” in somewhat the same manner that many members often do not accept callings they do not wish to fulfill. He was recommended again and again. Eventually his wife, that was aware of the recommendations, became quite angry. According to family records, early one morning, she left on foot – some 50 or so miles to Salt Lake City to express her opinions on the matter. As she walked, she was offered several rides – which she refused. She arrived in Salt Lake City and went immediately to the Temple Square Office Building and the office of Brigham Young. She walked past everyone that attempted to stop her and confronted Brigham in his office. It was said that her voice could be heard everywhere in the office building. Brigham quietly closed the office door and within a few moments my great grandmother settled down. About 20 minutes later she left the office in a very pleasant manner and within a week my great grandmother had convinced her husband and picked the second wife for my great grandfather. When she was asked what Brigham said to her, she refused to reply except to say that she had never understood the importance of plural marriage. She never spoke of what was revealed to her. I am inclined to echo somewhat the impressions of my great grandfather. That polygamy as most (nearly everybody?) realize and think of polygamy – as they would think of instituting it themselves – is wrong and likely unacceptable to G-d. Being somewhat ignorant myself – I have determined attempting to even discuss this topic (especially to those more ignorant than myself) is an exercise in futility. The Traveler

The detailed contour information gathered is of paramount importance in deploying various weapon systems. My point is that if the drones are of Chinees manufacture – regardless of who is flying them close to sensitive geographic places – we are putting ourselves at risk allowing it. The Traveler

You do realize that even as late as the 19th century that on the frontiers of the USA horses were rare enough that it was a capitol crime to steal someone’s horse? Also, the US army during this time was paying premium prices for all the horses they could get. In my youth I knew a number of horse breeders. The numbers you put up for breeding are quite unrealistic. I currently believe without DNA testing this question will remain more of a mystery than a resolved understanding. The Traveler

If you are not talking about ship’s manifests – What accounting are you talking about? How else could horses be brought to the Americas? The Traveler

I do not know what or who is controlling the drones talked about in the news. All I can do is speculate. Having worked for the Defense Department on classified projects, I do have some reason for my speculations. I am aware that the government does not like to talk about classified projects. I am also aware that the government will start and assist with pointless speculations. I personally doubt that the drones are controlled by government sources. At least the vast majority. Some may be government drones tracking the other primary drones. But I doubt that the government drones are flying with lights. It is my speculation that if the governments was testing drones, they would quit flying them before prying eyes. If the drones are foreign my guess is that they are Chinese. When I was visiting China (this fall) they made a point of making sure I toured their drone facility. Their drones were impressive. One particular drone impressed me (Yes I did see and touch the drone). It was listed as a crop spraying drone. It was very large – the size of an RV and could fly for several hours on a preprogrammed course. They claimed it was much cheaper than a crop plane and more efficient. It could also spray pesticides and was capable of sensing concentration of pests and spray only needed places (in other words is was capable of some AI). I like to ask questions and asked if that particular drone could be configured with LiDAR and infrared sensors. Already has been done was the reply. I was also told that the Chinese drones were the most advanced in the world. I cannot validate their claim. If these drones are equipped with lidar and infrared sensors and if they are Chinese drones – I do not care who if flying them – we are already as a strategic intelligence disadvantage. I would say that the disadvantage is similar to when elements in Zarahemla were plotting to overthrow the Nephite civilization with communications with the Lamanites in the days of Moroni as talked about in the Book of Alma of the Book of Mormon. The Traveler

The ship’s manifests were very accurate. Even the slave ships listed every slave – including births (or deaths) during the trip. Considering the value of horses and the expense of transporting and caring for them for months – I find it extremely hard to believe that any were not accounted for. The Traveler

I agree with @Carborendum that historical records concerning horses in the Americas is somewhat questionable. I read of research (sorry I do not have references available) that horses brought to the Americas prior to the 16th century were mares. This is because mares are more docile than stallions and better suited for long ocean voyages. Also, when breeding horses were brought it was difficult to keep them alive without a great deal of care. The bottom line is that by the 16th century there were more horses in the Americas than can be accounted for if the only source was shipping from Europe. I have not seen any DNA testing of current and past horses. I do not think we can dismiss horses as proof Joseph Smith made up horses in the Book of Mormon. In addition we know from archaeological evidence that there was a lot of violent activities going on in the America’s during the pre-Columbian era – especially in the fortifications of Maya, Inca, Aztec and Olmec civilizations throughout the Americas. In what is now the USA, we have the Hopewell peoples (that many think are the Nephite and Lamanite peoples) that had fortifications matching much of what is provided in the Book of Mormon. Bottom line – regardless of how it was done – there was a great deal of conflict in the Americas long before Columbus. As a side note – the last Indian war in the USA was fought in Utah near Blanding about 1923. A Indian chief called Posey – originally called Sagwageri – held off the entire US army with about 20 braves what is called the Posey war. Posey was able to outmaneuver the US cavalry in terrain difficult for horses. The Book of Mormon talks about wilderness areas that likely did not have roads which would make the use of horses difficult. The Traveler

I have pondered the difference between forgiveness and remission of sins. I think the difference is similar to the difference between justice and mercy. I believe that G-d (including the Son of G-d – Jesus the Christ) forgive every sin committed by every being – including even the sins of Lucifer (Satan). I believe that sins are forgiven through acts of mercy. But sins are only remitted or redeemed through justice and fulfilling justice. Justice demands that only those complicit can be punished or suffer for sin. It is not justice for someone that is innocent to suffer because of the sins of others. Justice demands that such is not possible. The great question that we must ask ourselves is why or how could Christ suffer because the atonement for our sins? In part this is related to why Jesus is the only one that could justly suffer or take upon him our sins. Now things are going to get a bit dicey in order to understand the atonement and the redemption of our sins during our fallen state. In our LDS scriptures of the restoration we understand that without law there cannot be sin because a sin is a transgression of the law. In our fallen state we do not have knowledge of good and evil, but we must live by faith. We do not have knowledge of the eternal consequences of sin. We cannot imagine the death we suffer in eternity for even the tiniest most inconsequential sin. Yet justice demands that those complicit suffer the full extent of the law. I believe and have logically concluded that the reason Jesus the Christ is able to suffer and atone for our sins is because he is complicit. He is complicit because he is the proctor of our agency. He is also the means by which we become mortal and allowed to sin with elements of ignorance. Because Jesus is Jehovah, he is the G-d of the fallen and the one that allows Satan to tempt us. Because of his role he has a level of complicity though he, himself, is without sin. Therefore, he can suffer and redeem our sins. Never-the-less we are warned that sin can still have hold on us despite that Christ has redeemed us from our sins. Sin will still have power over us if we do not repent. Why? Because that spirit that has power over us will remain with us in eternity. We must turn from our sins and sin no more because if we continue to look upon sin with even the thoughts of our lusts we are guilty and under the power of sin. That sin will have power over us so that because of our agency in desiring sin, the redemption of the atonement no longer has power to free us from sin in the eternities and it is like no redemption was made (as explained in the Book of Mormon). The Traveler

Greetings Brother Jones: I like reading your posts. Mostly because your views are different than my own – but not that different. I wanted to follow on to this particular post. Not because I disagree. But rather to provide some things from my own opinion. I personally like to discuss things with people that are well versed in their own opinions. The problem with opinions is that sources are difficult to define and identify. In such discussions, I find it more important to understand their logic along lines of why and how they came to their conclusions. Anyone can quote scripture. In fact, quoting scripture is a ploy often used by Satan. Seldom have I experienced scripture altering opinions especially when I have attempted to convince someone that is somewhat rebellious. There is a saying that to convince someone against their will are of the same opinion still. There are many views of my own that have been radically changed. In all cases it has come from a discovery of my own flaws in logic – often with the help of someone that previously walked through the same logical conundrums. In religion we talk about Hell as a place or status of being damned. In essence, living under binding laws that set limits and bind us – often forcing us into a service of others. Jesus said that the greatest in heaven were those servicing others. The reason (logic) for me making this reference is because it seems quite logical that many will consider living Celestial as a living hell for them. As I have attempted to understand the logic of what is possible in eternity – I do not think what we do not enjoy here in mortality will suddenly become enjoyable in eternity. My great-grandfather was the executive secretary of a United Order. Many think the United Order was a socialistic order. I have come to think it was exactly the opposite. It was about teaching individual service and responsibility and avoiding individual reliance on the work and service of others. The essence of a willingness to give more than one receives. I am convinced that this concept of giving more than one receives is only possible in Celestial orders of individuals. All other social orders must live (exist) by the laws of lessor orders somewhat akin to socialism, capitalism and others we may encounter in mortality. If you would like some references other than my opinion, I would suggest the following reads – not necessarily in the order given: The Law – by Frederic Bastiat Anything by Milton Friedman - - Capitalism and Freedom, There’s No Such Thing as a Free Lunch, Free to Choose. 12 Rules for Life and Beyond Order – by Jordan Peterson. How to Win Friends and Influence People – by Dale Carnegie Standard Works of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Jesus the Christ – by James Talmage The Peacegiver – by James L. Ferrell The Traveler

The basic concept of right verses left is about government control. The far right would be anarchy and everyone for themselves. The far left is the opposite – total government control and dominance. I consider myself a libertarian which is a limited government with powers to enforce laws enacted by the majority of the citizens - which is under civilian oversight. In the USA we have two parties that are vying for power so they can enact laws that gives them control over that part of society that does not agree with them. I personally consider both democrats and republicans as extreme leftists. I consider libertarians, like myself, as true centrists. I believe that our founding fathers were best defined as libertarians. More control to government is left leaning – less control is right leaning. Bigger government is left leaning – less government is right leaning. Defining or recognizing racial differences (racism) is left leaning – racial blindness is right leaning. Equal opportunity is right leaning – equity of outcome is left leaning. Entitlements are left leaning – individual charity is right leaning. Privilege is left leaning – responsibility is right leaning. I could go on but to me what encourages and allows individual contribution and responsibility is right wing leaning. What forces individual contribution through government powers of enforcement of laws is left wing leaning. I realize that there is a proclivity to muddle terms to hide and confuse. I believe definitions should be simple and easy to apply. When definitions become contradictory and confusing it is a mistake driven by an intent to beguile and mislead. The Traveler

Just to clarify – Nazis are socialists and therefore are not extremists of the right but of the left and those that tout socialism. The Traveler

It is my opinion that the real problem and threat in our society is that we do not know what to do with the mentally ill that are a danger to themselves and others. I sometimes (this as an example) think that we are unwilling to even attempt to deal with the mentally ill that are a danger to themselves and others. This unwillingness is demonstrated with the HIPAA laws and the obvious link between mental illness and self-medicating on top of both prescribed and unprescribed psychotropic drugs. And who knows what else is contributing to our youth (under age 25 that are still developing executive brain functions) turning into homicidal maniacs. In one day, our news sources are overwhelmed when we capture one and finally acquit someone that put himself at risk to stop one. And I wonder if some of our elected officials are among the self-medicating. The Traveler

BYU has a longer richer history of basketball. But we need to remember that during most of BYU’s history the Church membership was less than 2 million. Not until recently, beginning with Lavel Edwards (my lifetime), did BYU even have two consecutive winning seasons in football. The Traveler

The reality is that something apocalyptic did happened. The only unfiltered excerpts of ancient “Biblical” scripture that has reached our modern times are bits and pieces of Isaiah that is quoted in the Book of Mormon. It is no wonder that some of histories most horrific pages are annotated by Traditional Christians arguing with one another. Or that modern Christians cannot seem to agree on anything or even clearly separate good from evil. Isaiah prophesied that man separates themselves from G-d – not through doctrine – but by transgressing the law, changing the ordinances and breaking the covenants. Without the reformation followed by the restoration – Christianity was lost; because of transgressions of the law, changing of sacred ordinances and breaking the everlasting covenant – just as Isaiah prophesied. The Traveler

Sorry dear friend but I must take umbrage with this concept. Rather I would suggest that our fallen state in our mortal experience is perfectly designed to produce the perfect result for our individualized agency in order that we achieve for eternity the perfect fit for us. Contrary to what seems – I am of the mind that nothing will happen that is not intended to happen. All we need to understand (have faith in Christ) is that all things will turn out perfectly for our benefit. Which is, I think, the intent of your post. The Traveler

In a jungle when the apex predator is taken out – the predator that took him out will be worse. But that is not quite what happened. I believe the big winner is Turkey. The big losers are Russia and Iran. In the Islamic world this means that the Sunni are the happiest. But there are competing Sunni fractions. This could be good for the USA, Israel and the Middle East in genera. Hopefully Biden will not have enough time to screw this up. I believe that the most beneficial course of action will be within the framework of the Abraham Accords. What I think we should watch closely: First – Will there be free elections in Syria Second – What happens to the US backed Kurds in Eastern Syria? Third – What happens to the US imbedded troops currently with the Kurds. Fourth – What direction do civilians go – Do they continue to leave or do some return home? Fifth – What happens to Islamic terror organizations in Africa? Sixth – What does the Squad in the US do? Also, what happens to the antisemitism types at US universities? Seventh – What does the UN do? It seems to me that just about everything the USA touches in the Middle East ends in things getting worse. I think I will wait 6 months before I celebrate anything. The Traveler

Many think of the order of G-d as being binary. This is because the scriptures divide mankind into the righteous (those justified by covenant) and the wicked (those not justified through covenant). In reality the divine order is trinary. In the pre-existence heaven was divided into three parts. In scripture we are told that a third part of heaven followed Lucifer. This is thought to mean that 1/3 of heaven followed Lucifer. That is not true. The mathematics of the Hebrews and Greeks through which we are provided much of ancient scripture – only integer numbers were understood and used. Fractions were not defined. The only possible meaning from that time period was that heaven was divided into 3 parts, one of which followed Lucifer. There is no logic to assume that the 3 parts were numbered the same or even close to the same. In reality, in terms of modern mathematics the comparative number that followed Lucifer could have been only 10% or less. The important thing to remember is that heaven was divided into 3 parts or divisions. We see this trinary division again following the flood through the three sons of Noah. The three parts became known as the covenant, the gentiles and the infidels. In the final judgement, mankind will be divided into three glories. The telestial, terrestrial, and celestial. We are told in scripture that these glories are governed by laws, ordinances and covenants and that the glory is according to the laws, ordinances and covenants that are kept. In the Book of Mormon (Alma) we learn that initially we were all the same and had the same opportunity but that some would exercise more faith and that only those that exercise greater faith will receive the priesthood. This would imply that following the final judgement only those of celestial glory will receive the priesthood by ordinance. According to prophesy we live in a time when all males (male by genetics) can be ordained to hold the priesthood. This has not always been the case. For example, in the time of Abraham we learn from scripture that only Abraham’s seed would hold the priesthood. During the early times of the restoration – those of African decent were commanded to be held from the priesthood until events from our current generation. I have always assumed and believed that the priesthood would become standard only as a necessary preparation for the coming Messiah. It is speculation on my part that the time will come when the priesthood (priesthood powers) will not be maintained by any single individual but only through those entering into the divine law, ordinance and covenant of marriage. At which time men and women will be equal partners under the order of the priesthood. Whatever authority anything is accomplished in eternity will be channeled and directed through Celestial Kings and Queens (priest and priestesses) that control the keys of the priesthood. The Traveler