Misshalfway

Cherry.....a la mode! Altoids or tictacs?

Sometimes it is confusing and painful when these trials happen. But I am reminded thru your post that I think it is thru our trials that He reveals himself! There is something beautiful about that whole dynamic. Happy for you!!

In my last ward, I was talking to the RS pres. She shared with me that she didn't know a family in the ward that hadn't or wasn't dealing with really heavy burdens -- burdens of all kinds. I wonder sometimes if it isn't the weight of these burdens that gets us down and questioning. Satan is so good at dowsing our hope. I think there are dark days for some. Dark days of confusion and loneliness and perhaps even shame. No wonder your lesson focused on reaching out to help lift the hands who hang down. I get a little impatient with Saints that say we "should" hope, as if to say that someone who is struggling with hope at the moment is somehow flawed or sinful or less than. Such sanctimony isn't helpful to someone caught in the throws of trial. We are invited to help lift the hands that hand down, not judge them. I think the message should be one of invitation and perhaps thru kind and empathetic communication helping someone to remember or maybe even learn for the first time the true breadth of hope thru Christ.

I was thinking today about this thread and about some of the comments concerning Joseph and his imperfections. Yes, he was imperfect but the question here is about his worthiness. Would any of our current leaders be worthy if they had broken the law of chastity? Would they be blessed to continue on in their sacred capacity? Joseph was ushering in the last dispensation for heaven's sake! The core issue, I think, is not about polygamy at all. It is whether or not Joseph practiced it in righteousness and worthiness. I think this issue is huge. If he was unworthy, then it does discredit this entire work. Would you listen to Pres Hinkley if such activities were going on in his life??? Would God usher in the last dispensation with a servant he couldn't trust? I think the answer to that is absolutely not!! It is a black and white answer. Either Joseph was worthy or he wasn't. Period. Official Declaration 1 If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty.

To me there is a big difference between being social/having a social life and membership in a country club. I don't think there is anything wrong with having a social arm of church membership. Goodness! It was designed and still is designed to connect us. Satan, in his infinite abilities, isolates us. Maybe with sin or offense or not needing others, etc etc. I think the social effort of the church is absolutely a direct defense against such tactics. Social/country clubs on the other hand, are all about exclusion. There are more that aren't invited to the party than are. I think in the church, the lines get blurry depending on the attitudes of the members. Perhaps some of us have dealt with cliques in the church. Perhaps some wards are simply more inclusive than others. Each ward, I would guess, has their own unique challenges as we all fight the influence of Satan. I am reminded of the BofM. After hundreds of years of peace and righteousness, the people were described as the most happy. And then, what started to break it all up? Expensive apparel and the attitude that one is better than another. I really think that is the idea behind this thread. When we interact together, how inclusive are we? Or do we only interact with those who are like us or agree with us or make us feel better than the rest?

The big "D" and I don't mean Dallas!!! Welcome to the site. There is a seat at the table for everybody!!! LALALA.......hey! Who took mine?

I love the Sunday best idea too. Except I don't think my son's agree with me! :) Fitting them with ties and white shirts when they would rather wear a Scoobydoo shirt. It's all up hill. But I still love seeing them looking all shiney and spiffy! PS. Hope your H is doing well.

"Dash" ( kid from the Incredibles)

Wine glass! hahahhaha! Cheers! Taking pictures or having them taken of you?

Chewing gum. Baseball hat or Cowboy?

Hey Starberry! Welcome! Who amongst us doesn't need help now and again, eh? :) I will say that there are really knowledgeable people here with strong faith, even as they visit from other religious groups. And they are nice too. :) :) :) Hope you feel welcome here! MHW

Visa

Social life. Isn't that different than a social "club"?

I don't know if this helps, but David of the OT is a good example of what happens when prophets break the law of Chastity. In my mind, had Joseph made such mistakes, God would have removed him out of his place and put another prophet in his stead. The D&C makes it pretty clear to me that Joseph was .... how shall I say....monitored very closely!!!

magma

I think it means that everyone is welcome no matter where you are on the road to Christ. It isn't just for the rich or the perfect or the beautiful. It is for each and every child of father in heaven. We wear our Sunday best even if that means a clean t-shirt and jeans. Meeting in a new and fancy building isn't as important as the meeting itself and the ordinances of healing and renewal that take place there. It is a place where the poorest amongst us can lead and the least educated can make a difference. At least, that is the idea. We as humans and as mirrors of BofM stories don't always meet this vision.

I love listening to the Truman G Madsen stuff on the prophet. I was always touched that as he left home that day on horseback, he turned back 3-4 times to say one more goodbye to Emma.

I never knew that. Where did you learn this? But does this correspond to Christ's birth rather than death?

Don't you love it when the windows of heaven open???? You are truly an example of faith, Stampede. I felt the spirit when I read your post. Not because God blessed you, but because of the strength I felt coming from your obedience. Thank you for sharing this!!!

As long as you have a testimony that all that matters........... Hm. Having a testimony IS the thing that matters! I am not sure the person who said this really understands the concept of a testimony. This makes it sound like having a testimony is just walking around with a blindfold on and smiling obliviously saying, "no no no! Don't tell me the real truth. I am too busy feeling warm and fuzzy." :::shaking head::: This isn't even remotely what a testimony is or was or ever will be. A testimony is pure, absolute, sure knowledge given from God Himself! It incorporates logic, and reason, and feeling and emotion. It can be given thru dreams or voice or impression or thought. There is no research or earthly opinion of evidence that can trump revelation. To say that one cannot pray is a denial of the power of the very creator of you and I. And to suggest that someone shouldn't pray is ignorance to the possibilities of conversing with deity. Not one person on this thread has ever suggested that this question is not valid and that it should be ignored! Let me make myself very clear on that. We all have questions. We wouldn't be human or children of God if we didn't!! Asking questions is what opens the door to answers! We encourage it! This very church started by the simpleness of one question! Who wouldn't question Joseph Smith? His story seems fantastic and very well could be false! It is absolutely essential to any testimony for the question to be asked!!! The problem is not inside the question. The problem is when we as humans think we know the answers OR that we can obtain a better answer than from God. When someone suggests that Joseph or any other leader is sinful or devious or lying or evil. They very well could be right, just as easily as they could be wrong. You could slander me in the very same way. Take anyones weaknesses and history and start spinning and it wouldn't take you long to discredit all of us!!! But who is right and who is wrong? We are finite beings. We can only know so much about any subject by ourselves. Moses learned that man was nothing. Something he had not supposed. Perhaps a reminder of such a lesson could apply here. God is the only one who can give the satisfactory answer. Having said that.....ONE of God's prereq's for giving such spiritual answers is study. He expects us to do our homework. But.....He doesn't just leave us there wallowing in the confusion of incomplete documentation and controversial opinion and spinning. He breaks all the ties. He brings the light! The truth on any matter, and can lay any question to rest! So, OP, ask away! Study. Look at the documentation of Joseph's life. How many wives did he really have? What was the nature of those relationships and the premise with which they entered into such unions? And then take the matter and any heart felt confusion to God.

Well, having a job with benefits is certainly better than not having one! Especially after you have been looking for a time. And I am happy that you feel that sense of relief as you move forward. I hope this isn't where you land though. I hope it is only a stepping stone that will lead you to desire something better. From the little that you have posted, I feel sincere righteous desire in you. Working at this place will not be good for you in the long run. If you were one of my close relatives or friends, I would invite you to move to a better place where some measure of the Spirit could be felt. I would tell you that you are better than that and deserve better than that too. That you don't need to be taste testing alcohol to make a secure living. And that God can bring you to something better IF you place yourself in the ways of obedience. Just my two cents...... Congrats on the job. But don't stay there. God can do better for you. He can do stuff like moving mountains and parting seas. Finding a job for you? Cake walk! Much love.

I think it is a challenge of the emotional flesh to not be reactive. It is something that I feel like everybody deals with. Just go to girls camp and you will know~! Hahahahah! Learning how to become sensitive to others and then learning not to be offended by things that people say is perhaps a life long battle for us humans. I have allowed myself to become offended before. Sometimes I perhaps had grounds to be. Other times I just over-reacted because I didn't have patience to see beyond my first impressions of a comment. Either way, it seems to take a lot of energy to become and especially to stay offended. I have also been on the other side of an offense where perhaps I said something unfeeling or inconsiderate to an individual or maybe didn't mean anything hurtful by it, but because another was too easily offended, suffering occurred on both sides. There is something to be said for waiting until we react......or more correctly waiting before we act until we have more of the facts. And even then holding judgement in tow. Learning about a person, and allowing them to be who and what they are at that moment in time, and then learning to be sensitive to that person is something I am definitely aspiring to. But unfortunately there are just somedays when someone insists on being offended. What can a person do? I especially hate it when that person is me!! :) I suppose acquiring this sort of wisdom is what this thread is all about. What is that saying? Walk three miles in your enemies shoes, and perhaps you won't be enemies anymore.

Gandolf the Grey

Ocean, Just wondering.... Do you have the same concerns about Brigham Young? Considering his polygamous relationships are very well known. And just one thought about the issue of defending..... Defending in some cases means proving. Proving leads to arguing. Arguing leads to contention. And contention doesn't get anybody anywhere! I think the best way to defend is to have a solid testimony. Then we can answer questions and discuss our beliefs with others thru invitation and testimony. People can take it or leave it. The Spirit is what proves, convinces, lays down doubts, and calms fears. A person with less technical knowledge of the church and its detailed history can bear just as an effective testimony as a BYU/FARMS professional. On my mission, I talked to a new convert. She spoke of the two Elders who taught her. One knew all the right answers....could discourse intellectually for hours very convincingly. But it was the quieter one from whom she felt the Spirit of God. His simple testimony made all the difference in the development of her testimony. The real answer you need won't come from more historical documentation or more intelligent conversation from us. God knew and knows the heart of Joseph Smith. He knows precisely what happened back then in the quietness of every moment of Joseph's life. Take your question to Him. He will tell you the truth of Joseph's character.

penny pincher