Court of Love Lawyer?

[Aphrodite]

I have always heard them called church courts, or the awful 'court of love'. Court of 'love' my foot. Yeah, we love you, but you don't conform so get out. Nice.

[Elphaba]

I do believe anyone going into a disciplinary court is allowed- encouraged, even- to bring another person to testify in their defense.

So people can choose whom they want to testify in the person's name?

Elphaba

[MorningStar]

I have always heard them called church courts, or the awful 'court of love'. Court of 'love' my foot. Yeah, we love you, but you don't conform so get out. Nice.

That's not what it's about at all.

[Canuck Mormon]

I have always heard them called church courts, or the awful 'court of love'. Court of 'love' my foot. Yeah, we love you, but you don't conform so get out. Nice.

Have you been to one? Not everyone is kicked out. Not even some of the ones that should be.

[Hemidakota]

I have always heard them called church courts, or the awful 'court of love'. Court of 'love' my foot. Yeah, we love you, but you don't conform so get out. Nice.

That is not correct....

However, the term was changed in 1989 from court to read council.

"General Handbook of Instructions," page 10-11, published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, March 1989:

"The purposes of Church discipline are to (1) save the souls of transgressors; (2) protect the innocent; and (3) safeguard the purity, integrity, and good name of the Church. Church discipline includes giving cautions in private interviews, imposing restrictions in probations, and withdrawing fellowship or membership." Informal discipline is administered by a bishop or stake president without participation of counselors or a disciplinary council. Formal discipline is administered in a disciplinary council, formerly called a church "court". [Emphasis and bold added for clarification to reflect the current change in nomenclature.]

[MorningStar]

Yeah, look how many times Ed Decker made his way back in. He came to our stake meeting we had where we invited the community and he said he had been baptized 3 times once he got the microphone.

[Hemidakota]

Hmmm.....not good.

[MorningStar]

That was just to illustrate that excommunication doesn't mean "Go away and never come back". I don't believe he'll be back again though.

[Aphrodite]

safeguard the purity, integrity, and good name of the Church

Riiiiiiight. Thats what it all boils down to.

[MorningStar]

Riiiiiiight. Thats what it all boils down to.

My friend's dad was excommunicated for sexually abusing his daughter for years. I think it was a good thing for his family and shows how seriously the church takes matters like that.

[RachelleDrew]

You can have a person represent you not as a lawyer, but as someone to speak on your behalf.

If he's fighting accusations that are untrue, then I would certainly ask for someone to speak for me. If I agreed that the charges against my character were correct, I would simply approach it with a humble spirit and ask for forgiveness and take whatever discipline they gave me.

As for the voting thing, it would be very stupid of the church to support a candidate officially. I believe they can lose their tax exempt status over that, can't they?

Besides, the church isn't going to kick you out for voting differently than others in the congregation. So separation of church and state wouldn't matter really in that case.

[Moksha]

I do believe that is correct. Or "Disciplinary Council". Who came up with the word "court" for this anyway? No wonder this thread has evolved this way.

Court of Love sounds so 1984. Like the "Ministry of Peace" for the War Department or "Wal-Mart" instead of Made in China Store.

[skalenfehl]

Court of Love sounds so 1984. Like... "Wal-Mart" instead of Made in China Store.

[Elphaba]

Yeah, look how many times Ed Decker made his way back in. He came to our stake meeting we had where we invited the community and he said he had been baptized 3 times once he got the microphone.

Seriously? I had no idea he did that.

As an ex-Mormon, plus a lover of Church history, I really, strongly, and, hmmmm, adamantly dislike him.

Elphaba

[MorningStar]

Seriously? I had no idea he did that.

As an ex-Mormon, plus a lover of Church history, I really, strongly, and, hmmmm, adamantly dislike him.

Elphaba

I had always heard he had been exed multiple times, but I wasn't sure until I heard it from his own mouth. He lives in my area, so there are Ed Decker stories galore. My husband served in his ward and a lot of those people had things to say about him. He was really kind to the missionaries, but it seemed it was his goal to keep them distracted instead of teaching people and a lot of the elders got a kick out of having their picture taken with him. After a while, they were told not to go to his house anymore.

This friend of mine is married to a Catholic and when some negative things were written about our church in a local paper, he got upset and it was actually his idea to have an "Are Mormons Christian" forum. We had no idea what to expect. There was a little presentation and then a mic passed around for people to ask questions. Turned out Ed Decker and his Saints Alive followers took up at least half of the front rows and some of them even came from out of state. We had the usual, "Do Mormons believe Jesus and Satan are brothers?" and other regular questions and then this older man got the mic and said, "Hi, my name is Ed Decker ....." My jaw dropped. I turned to the people around me asking, "Did he say Ed Decker? ED DECKER???!!!" I thought my ears were deceiving me, then he started talking about his 3 baptisms and he was acting like he was there to help bring everyone to an understanding, like he was a really good guy. I can't remember half of what he said because I was so shocked to see him there, but I guess I shouldn't have been surprised. This other guy was wearing a T-shirt advertising their site and he turned around and started to address everyone instead of asking a question, then the bishop moderating the discussion directed him politely to ask a question or sit down. It was an interesting night to say the least. I was torn between throwing my hymn book at Ed Decker's head and eating popcorn. The funny thing was, the stake presidency up front answering questions looked really amused by the whole thing. At first I wondered if someone would escort him out of there.

[Jenamarie]

Um. I'm almost embarassed to ask this, but... who's Ed Decker??

[Elphaba]

Does anyone know if the Church is restricted, by the federal government, to not publicly support political candidates? Does it have a tax status that warrants this? I really don't know. Anyone?

Elphaba

(If someone has already answered this, my apologies.)

[Palerider]

I remember back a few years ago when I was a member, there was talk of putting a gambling casino around the area I live in. The bishop read a letter from the President of the church and Stake President urging people to vote no on the ballot to veteo the casino that was coming into the area because gambling is wrong and destroys families. Now to me, that is getting involved in politics.

here is the difference...and its huge....the Church does not endorse political candidates....they do and will speak out on "moral" issues....big difference...

[Palerider]

Does anyone know if the Church is restricted, by the federal government, to not publicly support political candidates? Does it have a tax status that warrants this? I really don't know. Anyone?

Elphaba

(If someone has already answered this, my apologies.)

no....they don't tell you who to vote for in regards to candidates....only on issues they consider to be of a moral value....

[Palerider]

If you want to know how a Stake ran Church Court is held go an dread from the D and C section 102.

[Elphaba]

Um. I'm almost embarassed to ask this, but... who's Ed Decker??

He is an anti-Mormon, here in Utah who gained fame for his "The Godmakers," a book full of hogwash that takes Church doctrines and twists them into half truths (9/10s truths?)

He has also since made videos about the Church, based on his books, and also called "The Godmakers."

The worst thing, in my opinion, is that those Churches that are virulently anti-Mormon, particularly the Baptists and Evangelicals, use this nonsense to teach their members about Mormonism. I've been on a number of their websites, and have argued with them, insisting they do not portray the truths about the Church. But I've never swayed anyone.

I know not many members agree with me, but one of the problems is the movie portrays some doctrine fairly accurately, which makes it easier for anti-Mormons to use against the Church. I'd have to look at the video again, but I have no sound, so I can't give concrete examples right now.

For me, personally, I've had one family member tell me I needed to stop reading Ed Decker, because I had just left the Church. This was the first time I'd ever heard of him.

Unfortunately, his material is so effectively connected to "anti-Mormonism," there are members who believe people who have left the Church must be anti-Mormon as well. They put two and two together and come up with nothing but the assumption that Decker's hogwash brought us out of the Church.

I have no doubt he has been successful in doing so; however, I believe they were probably on their way out anyway.

By the way, I do not call anyone an anti-Mormon lightly. I believe the term is excessively overused; however, Decker tops the list. I hate when someone assumes I must be a follower of his.

Ick.

Elphaba

[Palerider]

He is an anti-Mormon, here in Utah who gained fame for his "The Godmakers," a book full of hogwash that takes Church doctrines and twists them into half truths (9/10s truths?)

He has also since made videos about the Church, based on his books, and also called "The Godmakers."

The worst thing, in my opinion, is that those Churches that are virulently anti-Mormon, particularly the Baptists and Evangelicals, use this nonsense to teach their members about Mormonism. I've been on a number of their websites, and have argued with them, insisting they do not portray the truths about the Church. But I've never swayed anyone.

I know not many members agree with me, but one of the problems is the movie portrays some doctrine fairly accurately, which makes it easier for anti-Mormons to use against the Church. I'd have to look at the video again, but I have no sound, so I can't give concrete examples right now.

For me, personally, I've had one family member tell me I needed to stop reading Ed Decker, because I had just left the Church. This was the first time I'd ever heard of him.

Unfortunately, his material is so effectively connected to "anti-Mormonism," there are members who believe people who have left the Church must be anti-Mormon as well. They put two and two together and come up with nothing but the assumption that Decker's hogwash brought us out of the Church.

I have no doubt he has been successful in doing so; however, I believe they were probably on their way out anyway.

By the way, I do not call anyone an anti-Mormon lightly. I believe the term is excessively overused; however, Decker tops the list. I hate when someone assumes I must be a follower of his.

Ick.

Elphaba

well Emma.....oh I better not.....LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[utcowboy]

I know not many members agree with me, but one of the problems is the movie portrays some doctrine fairly accurately, which makes it easier for anti-Mormons to use against the Church.

Elp,

Aren't we told that the Devil will use 9/10Th's of the truth to help pull us away from the absolute truth that is Christs? Decker is doing just that, yes his films hold partial truths, and we as saints (Yes you too :) ) need to examine all that we are told by all. whether they are Prophets, Bishops, or whatever. The Lord will revile his truth to those who really want to know and live by his commandments.

[Elphaba]

The Lord will revile his truth to those who really want to know and live by his commandments.

:D:D

Okay, who does He revile, and who does He reveal?

(I'm sorry. I just had to do that!)

Elphaba

[Moksha]

Does anyone know if the Church is restricted, by the federal government, to not publicly support political candidates? Does it have a tax status that warrants this? I really don't know. Anyone?

Elphaba

(If someone has already answered this, my apologies.)

Not engaging in partisan politics is one of the requirements to keep a charitable and religious organization tax exemption status.