Modes of Prayer

[Listener]

This thread is sponsored by a gentleman who passed a remark in church today.

He was sharing on prayer. He emphasized that prayer to God should be reverent. I'm OK with that so far.

The next comment was that all prayer should address God as Thee/Thou/Thine, as this is required for reverence.

Now to the question.

How many of you are "Thee-ers" and how many are "You-ers"...and does it really matter?

I'm still processing this, but here are some thoughts, for what they are worth. If we truly wish to pray as Jesus taught us, it should be in Aramaic. If one prefers King James English in prayer, then my historical understanding is that in old English, thee/thou were terms of familiarity rather than reverence. This would certainly fit with Jesus addressing God as "Abba".

So, as I address those I love as you/yours, and I would address those I respect as you/yours, my vote is with this side.

Any thoughts?

[skalenfehl]

Interestingly enough, we are encouraged to use thee and thou because it is considered respectful. Even more interesting is that thee and thou is the informal/familiar usage of the word you, if I remember my old English correctly. Go figure. In other languages the informal/familiar you is used. By the way, I always use thee and thou. Here's an interesting link:

Thee and Thou

Edited July 20, 2008 by skalenfehl

[pam]

I've always used thee and thou when praying and addressing my Heavenly Father.

[pam]

Let me add one thing. I think Heavenly Father would love to hear from us no matter whether we use thee or thou or you.

[breeb]

When I pray publicly I use thee and thou because it is concidered proper. It seems to me church, in a way, has its own language, and at church thee and thou is proper. I admit I am one of those that doesnt really use them properly and some times durring personal prayer I will stumble over them. I tend to stop and think about whether or not I used it correctly. Since my personal prayers are much more intimate and involved than my public prayers I can become distracted and lose the spirit. Therefore I have decided to be a you and your prayer person durring personal prayer, but continue to use thee and thine for my public prayers.

[InTheDoghouse]

Although I feel that personal prayer is just that, our leaders have encouraged us to use specific prayer language when we address the Lord. Here is another great article from the 1993 May edition of the Ensign By Elder Dallin H. Oaks that explains this very point beautifully.

The Language of Prayer

I too believe that the Lord would love to hear from us in any way we pray, but when possible we should try and practice proper prayer language which we have been taught, if for nothing else to show obedience. To quote Elder Oaks, "I am sure that our Heavenly Father, who loves all of his children, hears and answers all prayers, however phrased. If he is offended in connection with prayers, it is likely to be by their absence, not their phraseology."

The most recent instruction by our church leaders on this topic that I could find was in the New Era in 2006. However, they have loads of previous instruction and council that has not been updated with any different information, so I would assume that is still the position of the church.

[WANDERER]

I guess if you have to make a public prayer at any stage you can write it down and get a member to transcribe it into King James english for you...to avoid getting it wrong.

Almost everyone says the Lords Prayer in King James English...if that's any comfort.

I'd kind of find it cheesey to pray in private like that...sort of like being in an oatmeal commercial. But that's probably cultural conditioning.

Considering the Book of Mormon is written in KJV and the people of Joseph Smiths' time didn't speak in KJV I guess you would have to wonder why God would do that? Just as easy to use the english of the time. Therefore it might logically follow that it might be a required language for sacred texts...prayers, hyms.... I'm not sure...just thinking out loud...about why it might be as it is.

[Moksha]

I use modern English along with my own imperfect grammar. That affectation of Jacobean English seems too twilight-zonish to suit my personal needs. Sort of takes me out of the moment and places me back in the year 1610. However, I respect those oddbodkins who use anachronistic terms in their prayers, gadzooks! I actually think it would be fun if they were to slip into Chaucerian or even Old English prayer mode.

Of course, I say rain and snow instead of "moisture" as well.

[WANDERER]

It's an interesting topic...I'm now reading about the whole KJV movement to put the Bible into common (vulgar) language accessible to all...it was considered a very disrespectful thing to do at the time by some and they were persecuted for it. How bizarre and ironic that it has become the very thing they tried to change.

Um..some interesting discussions on the bloggernacle about this.

[Listener]

All of your comments have been helpful.

I confess that stubbornness may be a part of my problem. I never wear white shirts and ties...and I happily went out and bought some. I consumed tea and coffee...and I feel much better now that I have stopped. Even if the thou-thing is cultural, why on earth would I wish to offend someone over such a small thing. I am perfectly capable of adjusting my prayer language to suit the LDS practices, in order to not offend.

Lesson learned. I'll treat it as an adventure!

Edited July 21, 2008 by Listener
polish

[Misshalfway]

I think if I am praying in front of people or perhaps my family or at Thanksgiving dinner, I use the thee's and thou's. In my private, depths of my soul prayers, I may or may not use them. Perhaps it varies with my mood or my needs. So far, it appears God is going with my flow. :)

I do teach my kids about such practices, but I hope that I am also teaching them principles that go beyond the "going through the motions". And I suppose that God would appreciate any respect no matter what words are used....... considering the variety of cultures and modes of language thru-out this world.

[aranyborju]

"why on earth would I wish to offend someone over such a small thing. I am perfectly capable of adjusting my prayer language to suit the LDS practices, in order to not offend."

That is such a good attitude. I wish that I was that mature.

[HoosierGuy]

I gave the opening prayer a few weeks ago for the first time. I searched the net on how to use Thee and Thou. I've been trying to use those words in my personal prayers but I have to admit, trying to use them kind of throws my mind off the actual prayer. I would rather not use those words but if Father wants me to and it’s the correct way, then I will use those words. I guess I'm still getting use to it.

Does lds.org have a guide to using those words correctly?

[Listener]

I'm not certain about LDS sites, but Skalenfahl's post has a site which is really helpful.

[bytor2112]

I guess if I speak Chinese my thee's and thou's might sound a bit differently. I say thee and thou, but I mostly believe it is to remind people to be respectful and reverent.

[Hemidakota]

Language of Prayer by Elder Dallin H. Oaks

Church Publications (HTML)

[Hemidakota]

How many us do what Elder Carlos E. Asay once stated on his summary how to pray?

Here is a summary of standards for prayer. These guidelines provide the basic do's and don'ts relating to the approved form and accepted language of prayer:

1. Salutations. Prayers are addressed to "Our Father which art in heaven." As we pray to our Father in heaven, we should avoid using the term "Lord." We should also avoid the unnecessary repetition of the name of Deity.

2. Expressions of thanks. Prayers may appropriately contain expressions of praise and thanksgiving, such as, "I thank thee that . . ." and "I thank thee for. . . ." In public prayer, we speak for the entire group and use the pronouns we and ours, never I or my.

3. Petitions. Prayers may appropriately include requests or petitions for

divine assistance, forgiveness of sin, inspiration, etc., such as "I pray thee that thou wilt . . . . " We must be willing to subject our petitions to the will of our Father in heaven ("Not my will, but thine, be done"). We should live righteously so we will know what is right and expedient for us, and so we will not ask for that which is contrary to God's will.

4. "In my name." Prayers are made or done in the name of Jesus Christ, for he has instructed, "Ye must always pray unto the Father in my name." We should not close by saying, "In thy name."

5. Amen. Prayers are concluded with the word Amen, which expresses acceptance or approval. We should say "Amen" aloud when we are in a group and someone prays in behalf of that group.

6. Hallowed language. Prayers are spoken in the sacred language of prayer (that of the King James Version of the Bible). We should use the reverent words thy, thine, thee, and thou in addressing Deity. We should not resort to the popular language of the day and use the common pronouns you, your, and yours.

7. Vain repetitions. Prayers should be meaningful and pertinent. We do not use vain repetitions, such as the repeated use of the name of Deity. We also avoid the use of idle, meaningless, threadbare terms and expressions.

8. Length of prayers. Prayers should be suited to the occasion and offered in a concise, honest manner. We should not "for a pretence make long prayers" or become involved in wordy or ear-tickling exercises of worship. Invocations are normally longer and fuller in expression. In such prayers we invoke the Spirit of the Lord (not a portion of it) to be with us. Dismissal prayers are normally short and to the point.

9. More than mere words. Prayers are the "heart throbs and the righteous yearnings of the soul." We should seek eloquence and excellence of language in our communion with God. However, we should understand that true eloquence in prayer is found in the feeling that accompanies the words.

Remember, "Prayers . . . are expected to conform to a prescribed standard of divine excellence; they should fit into the approved pattern of proper prayer." (Elder Bruce R. McConkie, op. cit.) ". . . we ought not to make too much of form. The Lord rules against long and hypocritical prayers." (President Spencer W. Kimball, op. cit., pp. 201-2.) We should also avoid set or memorized prayers, except in the case of prescribed baptismal and sacramental prayers that have fixed meaning.

A few years ago, while serving as a mission president, I determined that I would begin a series of interviews with the missionaries by asking, "When did you have your last spiritual experience?" The replies were varied and revealing. Some confessed that they had not experienced anything special. Others said that it had been some time since they had felt a closeness to the Spirit. Still others told me of marvelous experiences that had occurred the day or days previous to the interview. One missionary's answer, however, was unique. His response was, "This morning." "This morning?" I repeated. "What happened this morning?" Slowly, yet confidently, he replied, "I prayed." I was thrilled by the missionary's response. I did not doubt his word, for I knew of his commitment, his spiritual nature, and his ability to pray.

Many times since this experience I have pondered the matter of prayer and spiritual experiences. I've concluded only that which is obvious—our dialogue with Deity can and ought to be very special and very uplifting. And it can be if we seek God humbly and sincerely. We must approach him with childlike faith and we must pray in a Christlike way.

I pray that we will follow the true pattern of prayer and employ the reverent and sacred language of prayer. Would that it could be said of our prayers as it was said of the Savior's: "The eye hath never seen, neither hath the ear heard, before, so great and marvelous things as we saw and heard Jesus speak unto the Father;

"And no tongue can speak, neither can there be written by any man, neither can the hearts of men conceive so great and marvelous things as we both saw and heard Jesus speak; and no one can conceive of the joy which filled our souls at the time we heard him pray for us unto the Father." (3 Nephi 17:16-17.)