Is it too late?

[Liesl]

I've been married for 12yrs now. My husband and I have slowly drifted apart to the point where we live past each other. He has tons of interests and hobbies which have been and sometimes still is over passionate about.... For yrs I have begged and fought for time, help, recognision as more than the maid and for him just be apart of us. Over time I have slowly but surely given up fighting for it all including for us. I have become a 'married, single mom'.

Without getting into details, there are things that have happened that have cause major damage to us as husband and wife as well as on personal levels. Now after alot of heartache I almost walked out and seriously considered divorce, which scared him to the point of panick and major wake up to our situation. He is trying to make a change and I see it and recognise it. My problem is that, I'm so used to doing it all on my own that those changes make no difference to my feels anymore. Now, I don't want what I once fought for, almost like I've given up and just going through the motions.... I've been so numb for so long, I don't know how to feel again. We did separate for a couple of wks and coped better with him gone and less stressed. It seems like I've 'fallen out of love' with him, and I don't know if I can get those feelings back again, I don't know how and I'm not even sure if I want to anymore. What if these changes are too late? I know the saying that it's never too late, but something big has died inside. I don't know what to do anymore.

[StrawberryFields]

Could it be that you are just numb to those feelings. You might consider taking a little vacation with your hubby see if you can remember why you married him in the first place.

I think we sometimes just take each other for granted and the grass is not greener on the other side. Many people I have spoken to about their divorce have thought that they made a mistake a few years later.

Pray for the answers you need.

[ruthiechan]

Divorce is NOT easy. My husband and I were separated for two years. It sucked. You no longer have the financial backing of his job and you have to work your arse off and give your kids off to someone else while you work.

However, we did manage to get back together. So yes, there is hope. There is always hope.

I recommend prayer. That was the major thing that saved my marriage. I prayed every day, and constantly to know what to do for my family and whatever it was I did it. Do the same and I promise you will be answered.

While doing this also read the scriptures. Sometimes God will answer my prayers through scripture.

[MorningStar]

I like Strawberry's suggestion. I say give it more time and let him try to prove himself. :)

[hethathathears]

I would recommend going to a Family Life Marriage conference. They are offered all over the country at different times and cost about $300.00 dollars for 2 people with a money back guarantee. They are usually held in nice hotels or resorts that cost extra. There have been a lot of doomed marriages that have gone there and were revived through the experience. You are given work books and two sets of excellent motivational speakers that speak on a host of topics such as communication, forgiveness in marriage, and even romance. We also tend to bond with others couples through the experience. It starts on Friday night, all of Saturday, and then ends on Sunday. I think there is a web site with various testimonials.

I took my wife there about a year ago, not so much that our marriage was on the rocks, but because I truly love my wife after 23 years and have decided to keep her. No seriously, we went as a romantic experience and found that it strengthened our marriage. We met a lot of great people and look forward to going back again. A good marriage is worth fighting for.

Divorce is the easy way, however, it majorly effects the kids and in the end destroys lives.

Edited August 5, 2008 by hethathathears

[Palerider]

we just had some friends of ours get a divorce....they were married for 26yrs and they said they grew apart.....

[RainofGold]

My husband and I had similar problems. I wanted a divorce, he didn't. We found a wonderful lds marriage counselor that helped us both get back together. I can tell you that I was convinced that I had no more feelings for him and wanted out. Thinking that my life would be so much better and easier. I resented my husband for many things and couldn't bring myself to forgive him and love him like I used to.

He did promise to change just like your husband is telling you, and he did. He is not the same man that brought all those bad feelings and I'm glad I stayed. We have being married for 18 years now and couldn't be happier.

So don't give him a second chance because he probably doesn't deserved it. Give yourself another chance you have nothing to loose and a lot to gain.

Good Luck

[pam]

I've heard it said that couples who decide to stick it out tend to end up stronger than ever in a few years. This assumes of course that they are both willing to work at it through the tough times, and there isn't abuse involved.

Why did you get married to him?

That is the key. They BOTH have to want to work at it. Won't work any other way.

[Liesl]

Thank you for your encouraging words. I know divorce is'nt easy, that's why I've stayed when I had good reason to leave. We are going to councilling, in fact we've got an appointment this afternoon. I did decide to give this at least another 6 months to see if we can make this work. I'm supposed to tell him what it is I want from him and for the life of me I can't think of anything.... Like I said, what I once fought for I no longer want... I don't even want intimacy anymore, which is a BIG problem.

Unfortunately I live in a country that does'nt run marriage courses so that is'nt an option, and I've had alot of ppl tell me I need to get out. I've never been a quitter, but this time I've hit rock bottom.

As for why I married him... I knew it was the right choice, he was totally different... we worked in the temple tog and the gosple and I mattered to him. That's what I cling to, but reality is that it's not anymore.

[WANDERER]

My married friends tell me the grass is always greener...they don't get it. From there it looks green. The grass isn't even green...there is NO grass. Very Seinfield of me to say so...but it is like it is. It's okay...but it's not the same thing... living alone and all that. Singledom doesn't change the problems in life and make them any more solveable, they don't get less complex...same problems but not much hope of any more than one person dealing with them.

Sorry, that is a dating reality for most. Not everyone...but a lot. Put kids into the equation and things get even more complex.

My friends tell me they would like to have personal time...to pursue their dreams...like sure...Mr Amazing or even Mr Anyone is a part of every single girl's life...and not having to deal with shared choices is not the freedom one thinks it is...and if you're not pursuing that dream now to any small extent how likely is it that you'll invest in it in the future..and so on. Okay, no arguments. Yes, I understand the heartbreak of infidelity and abuse and whatever that leads people to walk away from marriages...and the deadening of the heart....but I won't tell you that it's rosey on the other side of things...any more than it's rosey working out a marriage.

I'm amused by the idea that it's that much easier to cook or wash dishes for one......what I mean to say...is that feeling like you're going through the motions is not unique to coupledom. That being said...no one should ever tolerate abuse...so that will have to get better. Don't jeopardise your safety, whatever you do.

I'd say if there is a chance..go for it. It's a risk...but what in life is not...either you both can or you can't...the can't is not that desirable. Yes, it's very peaceful. But a decade or two or three or four...roll on....is not for the faint hearted. Some do better at it than others.

If you are asking, perhaps there is more room for another chance?

And..any chance at all...is not quite nothing. From the other side of the fence, that's my perspective on things. It's a limited view...I'm not going through what you're going through....and you are the only person who knows this answer.

Edited August 5, 2008 by WANDERER

[deydream]

Anyone can grow apart from their spouse, and feel emptiness inside. They can also rebuild and remember the love they had before. My one suggestion is to read the book the Five Love Languages. It did amazing things for my marriage, when my husband said he didn't love me anymore. That was over 7 years ago. Eventhough we have our problems, we still love each other, and can now express it easier to each other.

[ruthiechan]

Thank you for your encouraging words. I know divorce is'nt easy, that's why I've stayed when I had good reason to leave. We are going to councilling, in fact we've got an appointment this afternoon. I did decide to give this at least another 6 months to see if we can make this work. I'm supposed to tell him what it is I want from him and for the life of me I can't think of anything.... Like I said, what I once fought for I no longer want... I don't even want intimacy anymore, which is a BIG problem.

Unfortunately I live in a country that does'nt run marriage courses so that is'nt an option, and I've had alot of ppl tell me I need to get out. I've never been a quitter, but this time I've hit rock bottom.

As for why I married him... I knew it was the right choice, he was totally different... we worked in the temple tog and the gosple and I mattered to him. That's what I cling to, but reality is that it's not anymore.

What do you expect will happen in six months? That's a relatively short amount of time, so expect some change yes, but it will be in the little things. I feel that putting a timer on this is unfair and gives you unrealistic expectations.

April 19th, 2005, my husband told me he wanted a divorce.

December 16th, 2005, we separated.

February 1st, 2008, we moved back in together.

That was tough, but it was worth it. Fent has the right of it. Our marriage IS stronger than it ever was before because of this. It was a trial of our faith.

CONSTANT OPEN HONEST COMMUNICATION is absolutely vital. If you have a hard time discussing things face to face write to each other instead. My husband and I used instanting messaging (AIM) to talk and that did wonders to help us be more honest. Of course this still means to be considerate of the other person's feelings and think about the manner in which you approach things.

SERVE one another. Do things for each other. BUT, service starts with you. It seems however that your husband has taken the initiative on this one. That's a step in the right direction!

Ignore what other people say. The do not have the whole story, only snippets. You said he received a wake up call, that means you are important to him and he wants to do what it takes to keep you. He simply got distracted by all the shiny things in the world. I can relate to that. If it was right to marry him back in your youth then it's right to save your marriage. It seems you both want that, but it takes time. Be patient with yourself and with him. These things occur slowly and can not be forced into a set block of time.

An oaktree does not become a strong oak in a short amount of time. It needs sunlight and nourishment and the gift of time. If you cut it down because it's not growing fast enough you'll never see the tree.

[Guest bren1975]

Get the book, "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands" by Laura Schlesinger. It's powerful.

Please know that divorce is devastating to children. Some never get over it. Most marriages can heal through forgiveness and repentance. Christ's atonement can heal anything.

[Guest HEthePrimate]

Hi Liesl,

It always makes me so sad when I hear of someone getting divorced, or on the brink of divorce. As you said, it's like something died, something that was beautiful, and intimate, loving, and warm. Clearly two people who got married had something special, at least for a while, and seeing that fade away is truly a tragedy.

I hate giving advice because I'm afraid it'll be the wrong advice. Nevertheless, I would suggest giving it more time. It may seem hopeless now, but is there any need to rush into a divorce? There's a chance things will get better, especially if you both work on it, and you may later be glad you did not get divorced.

I don't know, perhaps a short time apart might help? Sometimes if you're right there in the situation it's sometimes harder to think clearly. Maybe if you're apart for a little while, you won't have to constantly worry about doing the "right thing" by virtue of the fact that he's not there with you, and you can relax, take care of yourself, and think.

Every couple, as far as I've been able to tell, goes through tough times. Sometimes they even think they don't love each other any more, but I believe the love can often be rebuilt. It may not look exactly the same as before, but like rebuilding a house, maybe change can be good--expand the garage, or rearrange the bathroom!

(((care)))

HE, the P

[Liesl]

I know the 6 months thing seems short and normally I would agree. But we have been in such a bad way it was about as much as I could handle for now. I also need to make the right decision soon.... because of the children. They have been affected by it all, though we do not argue in front of them, in fact we don't argue much at all... my children have been suffering at school, their marks have gone down and I can see it in the way they carry themselves. I was even called into the school because of concern for my daughter. That's why something needs to happen soon. I also realise that divorce damages children, but at the same time so does a dysfunctional home. I remember wishing my parents got divorced, I hated the atmosphere, the anger and the cold silence. I don't want my kids feeling the same. When I decided on 6 months, I was ready to walk away then. But am giving it time to make sure we do all we can. My bishop has even said we need to decide soon because of our kids... but it's a tough decision to make.

[Calypso]

Liesl, it seems as if you are a good caring woman and loved child of Heavenly Father.

It is a terrible, painful heartbreaking time to be in when one realises and acknowledges one's marriage is in trouble and has been for many years, despite all your efforts in saving it. A Marriage is entered with two people, and as such such both need to add equal effort to make it work.

I couldn't help but notice after seeing your prior posts in the forum "A no sex affair" and "Dealing with infidelity" that you have been through a trying, hurtful ,traumatic and what must be degrading time, I'm sure.

Your husband's intellectualisation/justification of having to flirt with the girls after his giggs(that in front of you, a degrading act towards you) and then doing various things with a groupy to keep business going... now that's the worst excuse I've ever heard to justify infidelity or an affair! Indications are that he will never admit that it is wrong either, considering he is according to you still endulging in pornography. When one is able to say that a weakness is stronger than another person, the word addiction comes to mind. An addiction is an illness, and unless he acknowledges it and does something pro-active about that , it will never change. Having your 5 year old son exposed to that was a criminal act! I wouldn't expose my 3 children to a man that allowed that to happen! Depending which country one lives in, children can be removed from their homes for that alone!

I also sensed that he has neglected you and your children by what you have written. It seems his "hobby's" and interests at home take presidence over his family's needs. That in itself is a sin. The mere fact that you wrote "a single married mom" speaks volumes.

The picture that is painted here is that you have been trying all the right steps,being patient and very forgiving, but after 12 years of his "infidelity" and trying from your side most of the time to save the marriage with very little effort from his side, I can understand that one reaches a stage of "enough" and numbness and that love dies.

You did mention that you noticed him trying to change things... are these long lasting self-denying, self-sacrificing efforts a deep true changing such as seeking help for his addictions, acknowledging his sins and seeking atonement for his behaviour and infidelity?. Do these changes include him forsaking some of his hobby's and spending more time with the family? OR are the efforts and changes a surface change of such a nature that require as very little effort as possible as not be too uncomfortable for him?

What is kept in mind is that you did mention that things have happened from both sides, however I do get the impression that he contributed a great deal more, and has yet to seek atonement, whereas you have been trying your utmost.

Keep in mind that your children are growing up in an environment where the example of a marriage they see right now is everything but healthy. Communication skills, examples set etc. Children learn from their behaviour from their parents and what they do, and not what they say, the learning from seeing the example; this forms the foundation of the way they will approach life as adults and develop effective or defective coping skills. Already you are saying your children aren't coping.

Children are very sensitive to their environment, the may need counselling and professional help themselves, whichever decision you make.

I cannot give advice, mearly write what I perceive here, I do believe that you are correct in saying that you need to make a decision soon.

It may be that you have the answer already and are terrified of pulling through with it. The handbook says there are two justified reasons to end a marriage, one is if one partner breaks the other's soul or spirit, the other is infidelity. I believe both play a role here.

May Heavenly Father guide you in this decision.

[ruthiechan]

Keep in mind that marriage is a two way street. If it's in this sort of bad way it just as much your fault as it is his. Who contributed more to the problem is a futile and unprogressive thing that leads one into circles. You don't get anywhere. Cease the blame game.

Yes, your kids are affected. Our daughter was almost three when we separated but she was still feeling the effects. She was sad and had more discipline problems. However, as she saw things improving between her Daddy and I she slowly got happier and became more of the helper girl she once was. Her glow of happiness radiated when we told her we were all going to live together again. She is much happier and our family is stronger.

About infidelity a certain set of verse comes to mind.

"2 And early in the morning he came again into the atemple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."

We are in a social war. Our war is not one of swords and scimitars, but of words and deeds. Our units are not in fire teams and squads but of families and neighborhoods. If the smallest unit breaks the larger unit is damaged. Break enough small units and the larger unit is broken as well.

It is my feeling that Satan *wants* you to give up on your marriage. He will use anything and everything against you. Your pains, your children's pains, the thought of maybe finding someone better, the supposed freedom of being on your own. . . He will also attempt to cause you to use your own reasoning in your thoughts and actions and ignore or shun the promptings of the Spirit. He will distract you and soon you are forgetting to pray for guidance and to find answers in the scriptures. He will try to cause your friends and family, even people on this board, to push you in the wrong direction.

[Calypso]

Keep in mind that marriage is a two way street. If it's in this sort of bad way it just as much your fault as it is his.

I do have to disagree with that statement. Not to deviate from the post, but if this were an abusive situation (of which there are elements here)... would you still say it's the woman's fault for being abused? and that she had as much fault in it as the abuser? Is it the woman's fault that her husband has uncontrollable addictions? This is a whole different jar of cookies.

If this man has been continually unfaithful to his wife and neglecting his family for 12 years and continues to do so, it is not her fault, it speaks more of his character. He has been given many chances of a period of 12 years, if he hasn't put in sincere effort up to now, the chances are he never will. Is it healthy to continually expose children to an unhealthy situation for the sake of staying in a farce of a marriage , for a marriage's sake?

From what I can gather is that this woman is experiencing a myriad of tumultuous emotions, hurt, grief, anger, sadness, disappointment, disillusioned etc. to such an extent that she has become emotionally blunted, presenting symptoms of PTSD.

What was said was not intent on blaming, it is focussing on the facts and honestly perceiving and acknowledging the emotions that go with it, in order to work through and deal with those suppressed feelings to facilitate moving on. One cannot effectily deal with hurt or emotions if they are not named, described and the consequences thereof highlighted.This however needs to be done in counselling. Denial or intellectualising has never solved a problem from the core. Only once that is done and all is in the open, these issues can be openly dealt with in order to learn and grow from. Many woman with addicted spouses find themselves in a situation of loosing their own personal boundaries and accept the responsibility for their spouse's actions and suffer with their children because of that. They forget who they are and what Heavenly Father had in mind for them. It is not a healthy situation at all.

RC , It is wonderful you and your husband have found each other again. Being in one, I do believe every marriage is different with its own sets of challenges and unique characteristics and should be dealt with accordingly. One cannot use the same brush for all hair types the same way one cannot use the same solution in solving different situations.

[ruthiechan]

You presume too much. You do not have all the facts. You can not possibly have all the facts. I do not have all the facts either. No one here does. We do not know the why of things at all. Why did he get into pornography? Why is he flirting? Why is he so engrossed in hobbies and other things? Could it be that mayhaps she stopped paying much attention to him or became very demanding or started "copying" her own mother's actions thereby becoming different (yes, people really do that)? Could it be that she was disinterested in sex, and then he accidentally saw something (sometimes I'll mistype a url and get porn), succumbed to temptation which then became an enduring problem? Was she so busy with her kids she didn't do things for him? Did she stop effectively communicating and become a nag instead or bottle it all up until she blew up at him?

Or, could it be, that maybe at some point in their marriage he sustained a head injury and now his brain is not functioning as it should? There are such things as Head Injury induced ADD, temperal lobe issues (controls temper and memory etc), and other mental problems all because of a "mild" concussion or even from the whiplash of a car accident.

Here is a true story about how brain function can affect marriage. Brain Scans, ADD, ADHD, Depression, Anxiety, Brain Trauma, Symptoms, Diagnosis, Treatments

See what I mean? My comments are made with the idea in mind that Liesl WANTS there to be hope. Just by asking us shows that this is so. Thus, I believe there IS hope. People can change when they choose to. Who's to say he's not truly repentant? We do not know. Even Liesl may not know yet since it does take time to show consistent changed behavior. The counseling that they will be going to should help them figure some things out, including the possibility of a faulty brain.

If Liesl were to give up on her marriage because it's easier that way well then she didn't give it her all which she will be held accountable for. If she truly does give it all she can and it still falls apart through his actions then by all means divorce is probably the answer. So if it succeeds it'll be sweet because she'll have done all, and if it fails she will know that she has done all and not be plagued by what-ifs. However, she can not possibly do all she can without Heavenly Father. He will give her ideas and thoughts, words and deeds to do, things that she would not have thought of on her own. We're human, we can not mind read but if we have the Spirit with us we can discern the thoughts and needs of others. Family included.

BTW My solution for problems is always through prayer. Search, ponder, pray. That applies to every problem, no matter the difference. The specifics are between the couple and the Lord.

Edited August 6, 2008 by ruthiechan

[Calypso]

RC, I agree with you that this is a subject of prayer for Liesl. As I did say , let Heavenly Father guide you...

With regard to the other issues, only she and her husband have with Heavenly Father know all the details.

I did not speak against you, we both are adding to this post. I merely pointed out that in some cases there is a party that has suffered more and a party that has caused more stress, and sometimes a marriage is in trouble not because of a lack of trying everything from the wife's part.

I have recently dealt with a very distraught close family member who had been hiding her husband's addiction's and abuse(not physical, but mental). Her story rang very close to Liesl's. Hence my "passionate" reaction. She truly went out of her way, to her own destruction to be and do all she could for him. They were married for 11 years, and after a counselling process she put her heart in, it was truly discovered that she did all she could, all the small things, the important things, in fact so much that she enabled him to continue the cycle. Which was not so good. Yes no humanbeing is perfect, and we all need to work on ourselves. She worked honestly and openly on her weaknesses, grew and tried to gain insight. He declared in a counselling session that there was nothing wrong with him and did not need to change anything. Long story short, I have a dear close family member who is an emotional and mental wreck because of staying in a soul destructing marriage. With help she is healing, but a long road lies ahead before she can function effectively as a complete strong woman and a mother to her children.

Your insights are true and there are many aspects to consider, granted. However being so close to a situation as I have been that as a man and husband, I have seen firsthand the destruction a thoughtless selfish husband can cause to a good loving daughter of Heavenly Father. It saddened me and "sobered" me that a fellow man could do such a thing. We are supposed to be protectors and use our priesthood to the edification of our wives and children and not use it to break down and abuse.

I feel I have the responsiblity to add the following:- for the younger generation reading this thread, it is important to note, whichever way, it is not for any reason justifyable or excusible whatsover for men or women to indulge in pornography, infidelity, addictions or abuse. It is no-one else's weakness but those who have succumbed to it. To wives with husbands who have succumbed to pornography, indfidelity, abuse, addictions etc, as a husband and priesthood holder I have to say;- your husband had agency when choosing to do so, you did not "make" him. That goes for addictions too. Two wrongs have never made a "right" . Husbands, it is up to you through Heavenly Father to make yourselves strong and resist temptation, it is not up to your wife to do so for you., it is your responsibilty as her spouse alone! Husbands if you have succumbed, seek help and atonement, repent and renew yourself. Husbands, if you have blamed your weaknesses on your wife, be ashamed, humble yourself and seek reperation and forgiveness from your wife and Heavenly Father.Heavenly Father has promised to forgive those who who seek atonement and truly repent, as we are all imperfect humans. Heavenly Father has given you agency and His Word and Knowledge to use it. The same goes to wives who have succumbed to these "weaknesses". Only once both parties in a marriage have contributed equally, with equal effort can it work.

Liesl a challenging time lies before you, at some stage it will be important to search for the answer in your own heart with honesty with the guidance of Heavenly Father. These posts may shed light, and there will come a time whereby you have to stop seeking advice from others and seek inwards and upwards for the answer. Counselling too will be important to unravel all the tangled thoughts and feelings.

May you be guided by Heavenly Father in His Will.

Edited August 7, 2008 by Calypso

[Liesl]

Ruthie, I've got to tell you, you sound just like my husband...

The porn was no accident, he went to an adult shop and got a few videos. He also had no problem driving for 45min during work to meet this girl in a secluded stair well, his brain knew what he was doing. And what did he say every time I caught him?.... It's your fault for not giving it when I want it. When I organised activities for just the 2 of us, I had to go alone cause he prefered network games... heck, I could walk naked in front of him and the screen and he would'nt even know it. I did try, I fought while trying to be a mom to small children, but it was'nt convenient for him and. My fault lies in that I got tired of begging.... and I know I'm not a nag. Do you know what it's like to go into early labour and call your husband for help just to be told, I can't help you now, I'll call brother...... (I was in the bath at the time), he only came to the hospital that night, I said nothing. Do you know what it's like to have major emergency surgery on your own and wake up alone, then have him visit after hrs... after he played a few games? And no, I did not complain, and have stilll kept quiet bout it. I have often wondered if it's true... am I really to blame for the things he's done? And have believed that I am, depressing thought, isn't it... So why does he want to change, if I'm so bad for him??????

[Calypso]

Liesl, no, you are not to be blamed for the things he has done, he alone had the agency to do those things. No-one has agency on the behalf or for someone else. You are absolutely allowed to feel the emotions you do. If you were my daughter, I would certainly not tolerate such accusations and weak excuses from her husband. A man with honour treats his wife with respect, love, caring and takes responsibility for the consequences of his actions. An honourable , worthy husband and priesthood holder, firstly has Heavenly Father, thereafter ALL his wife's and childrens's needs as well as the edification of his family, on his agenda and will sacrifice his own "pleasures" in order to provide for them first and foremost.

I'll quote what I added on in previous section again:

"I feel I have the responsiblity to add the following:- for the younger generation reading this thread, it is important to note, whichever way, it is not for any reason justifyable or excusible whatsover for men or women to indulge in pornography, infidelity, addictions or abuse. It is no-one else's weakness but those who have succumbed to it. To wives with husbands who have succumbed to pornography, indfidelity, abuse, addictions etc, as a husband and priesthood holder I have to say;- your husband had agency when choosing to do so, you did not "make" him. That goes for addictions too. Two wrongs have never made a "right" . Husbands, it is up to you through Heavenly Father to make yourselves strong and resist temptation, it is not up to your wife to do so for you., it is your responsibilty as her spouse alone! Husbands if you have succumbed, seek help and atonement, repent and renew yourself. Husbands, if you have blamed your weaknesses on your wife, be ashamed, humble yourself and seek reperation and forgiveness from your wife and Heavenly Father.Heavenly Father has promised to forgive those who who seek atonement and truly repent, as we are all imperfect humans. Heavenly Father has given you agency and His Word and Knowledge to use it. The same goes to wives who have succumbed to these "weaknesses". Only once both parties in a marriage have contributed equally, with equal effort can it work".

May Heavenly Father guide you in your prayers and for what lies ahead.

Edited August 7, 2008 by Calypso

[WANDERER]

You take care or yourself Leisl....anything that risks your safety and puts you in harms way is not good.

[ruthiechan]

Ruthie, I've got to tell you, you sound just like my husband...

The porn was no accident, he went to an adult shop and got a few videos. He also had no problem driving for 45min during work to meet this girl in a secluded stair well, his brain knew what he was doing. And what did he say every time I caught him?.... It's your fault for not giving it when I want it. When I organised activities for just the 2 of us, I had to go alone cause he prefered network games... heck, I could walk naked in front of him and the screen and he would'nt even know it. I did try, I fought while trying to be a mom to small children, but it was'nt convenient for him and. My fault lies in that I got tired of begging.... and I know I'm not a nag. Do you know what it's like to go into early labour and call your husband for help just to be told, I can't help you now, I'll call brother...... (I was in the bath at the time), he only came to the hospital that night, I said nothing. Do you know what it's like to have major emergency surgery on your own and wake up alone, then have him visit after hrs... after he played a few games? And no, I did not complain, and have stilll kept quiet bout it. I have often wondered if it's true... am I really to blame for the things he's done? And have believed that I am, depressing thought, isn't it... So why does he want to change, if I'm so bad for him??????

I was in no way accusing you of anything, simply pointing out that we don't really know *everything*.

I used to be the person that did all sorts of things without my husband, social groups/clubs, the kiddo, internet. When it came to sex I was very selfish about it and my husband did not respond well to that. I never cheated nor did I view porn. I suppose I treated him like a living dildo (never thought of it that way till now). Instead of listening to him I would get defensive and angry. When he tried to communicate with me it was through frustration and anger which only made me worse. When we had a calm conversation for once I asked him, "okay what can I do to fix the problem?" He couldn't answer me. I suggested counseling, he said no because we couldn't afford one and he didn't want to go to an LDS counselor (he's not Mormon). Then he stopped communicating and made me believe that all his unhappiness was due to his job, and he really did hate his job which made it so believeable. And the problems continued. When he told me he wanted a divorce it was like getting a boot to the head. He had even told me he loved me out of habit. The words were empty. So were mine, because my actions told another story.

It took prayer and a willingness to act for me to appropriately change. It still took a year after we separated for my husband to tell me "I Love You." I rarely said it to him during that time so as not to burden him with my words and because action spoke louder than words anyway. Of course, I explained that to him so he would know the why behind it. I didn't want him to start thinking that I was falling out of love with him.

I was not financially stable on my own so my daughter and I moved in with my Mom where I got on welfare and through them it was determined that the best thing to do for me was to go back to school and finish getting my AS. It was difficult.

Sometimes you really do not know what you have until it's gone or almost gone.

One thing I must say however is that my husband and I were determined to stay friends. Or at least friendly. We were friends before and we wanted to stay that way, especially for our daughter. We didn't want to be the bitter divorced couple and make life harder on her.

Your husband needs to speak with the Bishop as well, alone. You both need to speak with him together also.

I would recommend the same thing when you go to counseling. I would also recommend the two of you saying a prayer together before you go, and ask him to say it. If he doesn't feel comfy with that do it yourself and maybe the next time he'll be willing to do it.

Go the Temple together. I don't know if you have temple recommends, if you do, use them, if not, just go. It will help you both recenter and focus. If he won't go, go on your own.

Go visit a relative or friend for the weekend, alone. Or for a day, and ask your husband to watch the kids.

I remember wanting my parents to get a divorce. But, what I really wanted was for my Dad to be a Dad. It didn't happen, so my parents divorced when I was a senior in high school. You think my grades were bad before, after that divorce they plummeted, even in classes I actually liked. Three years later, my Dad started the road to change and now many years later I can have a conversation with him and not want to ring his neck. In fact there were a couple of times where only he understood how I was feeling. Which was nice, I needed someone to understand.

I mention that to you because both choices will have repercussions and stress for you and your kids. Both choices will also take time to recover.

I will reiterate the importance of prayer on this. Without divine direction I never would have been able to make the changes I needed to make. You won't either, nor will your husband. It could be that the only change you need to make is proper communication and accepting the changes your husband is making. Your husband needs to pray for guidance as well otherwise he will likely fail in his efforts. If he has a difficult time doing such things on his own, make it a family prayer. It's okay to say in family prayer, and please bless Daddy to have the Spirit with him to help guide into becoming the person he wants to be (or whatever) and please help Mommy, yadda yadda, and help Child 1 yadda yadda. And then thank Heavenly Father for blessings and name those blessings.

Of course, prayerfully consider any and all of my suggestions and the suggestions of others. It could be we're all wrong, it could be that we're only half wrong/half right. I don't know, but God does.

There is a reason why they call it the Power of Prayer. Because through prayer you can obtain the power you need for any trial.

Edited August 7, 2008 by ruthiechan
clarity

[ClassyTina]

ok, reading your situation hits to close to home. We have been married for 13 years. We did grow apart.

I felt I did not love him anymore. I still wanted the best for him but did not have the same feelings anymore. I will have to admit I was angry. Not a very good emotion to have. I asked him to leave and this seemed to hit him hard. We were apart for a few days. I was not ready for the change in him and I did not trust it. I felt he changed so quickly, was it real. I kept going my same direction. We went to a marriage counselor that said we needed to work on 5 areas in ourselves and as a couple. ( Mental, Social, Emotional, Physical and Spiritual). This was a start but as he was turning into everything I ever wanted I was becoming less the person I wanted to be. We both spoke with the bishop and worked on repentance. We started reading scriptures in bed at night together, doing family meetings, going on date nights again, praying together, really talking and listening. We determined what was important in our family and I came to love my husband the way he deserves to be loved again and he loves me the way I deserve to be loved. We now realize how fragile our marriage is and will not take it for granite again. Through the grace of Jesus Christ and doing good works, we all can be saved and have a happy life here on Earth. I will pray for the best for the both of you, I do understand. The road ahead of you is not an easy road but you must think that it will work first, then turn those thoughts into actions. Your thoughts can help you grow in happiness or bring you sadness, it is your choice. I found that out the hard way. Try doing something different and nice for him. Hope your appointment went well.