Where does life on mars fit in?

[DigitalShadow]

I'm sure most people have probably already heard that the Phoenix lander already confirmed that there is in fact water on Mars. I also read that apparently NASA briefed the president on something that the Phoenix lander discovered. They are denying that the discovery was life on Mars, but still haven't released the information to the public.

So if there were life on Mars, let's say similar to bacteria and other microscopic organisms here, how would that fit in to God's plan? Since I'm guessing most of you do not believe that life simply occurs, it would have to have been put there for a purpose, what do you think that purpose might be? Would the discovery change anyone's beliefs (I'm guessing no, but figured I should ask anyway)?

I know that God does not reveal everything to us and we may just be meant to not know, but I'm curious how people would react and what opinions might be. Any thoughts?

[Vort]

So if there were life on Mars, let's say similar to bacteria and other microscopic organisms here, how would that fit in to God's plan?

Why do you think we would know the purposes of God? I could throw out half a dozen possibilities off the top of my head, but it would amount to nothing.

That's like saying, "What were God's purposes in creating a brown dwarf in the Andromeda galaxy twenty-five thousand light years from any planet with life?" or "What was God's purpose in creating the pebble two hundred feet under my house that no one ever has or ever will unearth?" or "What was God's purpose in creating the particular molecule of helium that I just exhaled instead of some other isotope of helium?"

[DigitalShadow]

Why do you think we would know the purposes of God? I could throw out half a dozen possibilities off the top of my head, but it would amount to nothing.

That's like saying, "What were God's purposes in creating a brown dwarf in the Andromeda galaxy twenty-five thousand light years from any planet with life?" or "What was God's purpose in creating the pebble two hundred feet under my house that no one ever has or ever will unearth?" or "What was God's purpose in creating the particular molecule of helium that I just exhaled instead of some other isotope of helium?"

Then please throw out your half dozen possibilities, I never said they had to amount to anything. I posted this in General Discussion because I wanted more opinions on it, and I know it is not possible to have doctrine on something that may or may not exist.

I thought a lot about this subject over the last few days, I was mostly just wondering if anyone else had some thoughts on it, I'm not expecting definite answers or anything.

[Vort]

Then please throw out your half dozen possibilities

1. God created life on Mars as a seed for life on Earth:

- 1a. Conditions for life were inappropriate on Earth, so God used Mars

- 1b. Life arising on Earth was inappropriate for God's purposes, so he created life on Mars that better suited his purposes

- 1c. Life arose on Mars to give Earth-based life a necessary counterpart that could not properly develop in Earth conditions

2. Life on Mars arose as a consequence of life that God created on Earth:

- 2a. God simply allowed life on Earth to spread throughout the solar system because it's a natural process

- 2b. God specifically designed for life to spread to Mars for a reason listed in #1 above or in #3 below

3. Life on Mars exists for its own purposes beyond the purposes that concern man

- 3a. God will use life on Mars in the future for purposes that don't concern us

- 3b. God has used life on Mars in the past for purposes that don't concern us

There are seven off the top of my head. I am sure I could come up with a dozen more, if I wanted to. But it's an exercise in futility. I have little interest in guessing the mind of God regarding the mechanics or specific purposes of his creations; I am much more interested in learning the mind of God regarding my own purposes and duties.

For the record, I wasn't trying to stifle your conversation. Rather, I was pointing out what seemed to be an unstated assumption in your question: That we are able to understand the purposes of God in everything he does, and by extension that if we cannot understand those purposes, that somehow argues against God's having a purpose in the thing, and perhaps even against God's very existence.

Edited August 5, 2008 by Vort
Clarifying the purpose of my response

[funkymonkey]

I'm prettty sure I'm from Mars...

or Venus...

or Pluto

I personally think God made our entire solar system, so the fact that they have water or bacteria...or even if they had little green martians, doesn't bother me a bit. I would hope that God did things to each of these planets to make them interesting and "alive".

I have no problem with dinosaurs either.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

There are seven off the top of my head. I am sure I could come up with a dozen more, if I wanted to. But it's an exercise in futility. I have little interest in guessing the mind of God regarding the mechanics or specific purposes of his creations; I am much more interested in learning the mind of God regarding my own purposes and duties.

If discussing it is so futile, why'd you even bother to post? Seems counter productive to me.

To answer the original question, I think life on Mars would be very little different from a heliocentric solar system. A few religious extremists will shout "Hoax" but shortly after the furor will die down and we'll all find new ways of interpreting our religious beliefs around the latest scientific discoveries.

Personally, I think God created a set of rules (something like setting up dominoes) and when he set off the Big Bang the dominoes started falling according to His design. Those rules enabled life to form on this planet, it seems to me that they would also enable life to form on dozens, hundreds, or "billions and billions" of other planets :)

And if anybody truly thinks that this planet is the one and only pinnacle of creation from the beginning of the eternities, well then

[WANDERER]

From what I do know Mars once had an atmosphere. It is quite possible that it was habitable by some sort of life before Earth cooled down enough...in fact, very likely...but then again...that may not be so.

And as the solar system cycle develops...it is quite possible that Mars may continue to be habitable for longer than Earth will be...less likely but possible...and probably not that great an option. I'm not that into science to understand or pursue this one...but it would appear that the Earth will cool down as the sun does however distant that may be in the future?

From a religious perspective: I think we sorted out that the solar system or the universe doesn't revolve around the Earth some time ago. Possibly the discovery of life on other planets will skew the replacement theory of Rare Earth. But people will adjust if that happens. I'm a current rare Earth supporter unless proven otherwise.

Questions that arise from thinking bigger:

Who created the universe? Were they also responsible for whatever life or pre-existent life evolved on other inhabitable planets/bodies? Etc.

Perhaps there will be a Battlestar Galactica remake or somewhat similar if life or pre-existent life is discovered? Answering one question will just pose more...sci/fi will probably get a bit of a revival. Our way of thinking will take a bit of a dint..but expand I suspect. This includes religious belief...and possibly the more unbelievable of those groups (in comparison to mainstream thought) will gain somewhat of a following.

I think it will most likely be pre-existent life that is discovered first...as the parameters for life in not-Earthlike conditions may make that less obvious. They appear to be searching for life forms in the same way that they have discovered life forms in the rocks on Antarctica due to the comparison effect (microbes, simple plants). I think such *mundane* discoveries may be greeted with boredom by those who aren't enthusiastic about such things. Anything that isn't all that mundane will most likely be seen as a glitch and take about a decade or two to confirm or prove to the extent of limited doubt... under much controversy..and possibly never to the satisfaction of those that believe no one ever landed on the Moon in the first place.

From what I understand the current probe is on it's last legs and won't make it through the Mars winter so there's a very short time frame/project life on it and it took some effort to get a soil sample as it's not behaving. So possibly, any results will be in doubt for some time.

My excitement is limited LOL.

[MarginOfError]

And if anybody truly thinks that this planet is the one and only pinnacle of creation from the beginning of the eternities, well then

I just want to point out that the box in that picture probably over-represents the size of the earth a few million times.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

From what I do know Mars once had an atmosphere.

Mars DOES have an atmosphere and I have heard (though I haven't verified) that it is getting thicker. It is a known observation that Mars' upper atmosphere is being shaved away by the Solar Wind, much like a comet's outer layers.

I just want to point out that the box in that picture probably over-represents the size of the earth a few million times.

By a few "billions and billions" of times :) - times the size of our galaxy even. If you ever feel like "we" are the center of (or reason for) the universe, just look up.

The image I linked to can be found in the book "Pale Blue Dot" by Carl Sagan.

[Vort]

I just want to point out that the box in that picture probably over-represents the size of the earth a few million times.

The earth is something under 13,000,000 meters in diameter, so it would fit into a cubical box of volume 2 x 10^21 cubic meters (that's two sextillion cubic meters).

We can't tell how "big" the size of the square in the picture represents, but we can guess. If it's considered a cube and at the level of the foreground stars, it is perhaps tens to hundreds of light-years on an edge. If it's at the level of the background galaxy, then it is perhaps one or several hundred thousand light-years on an edge.

Since a light-year is about 10^16 meters, a cube 100 light-years on an edge will be 10^54 cubic meters in volume, or around 10^33 times the size of the earth. That's around a decillion times larger than the earth, considerably more than "a few million".

If we take the larger, galaxy-sized estimate of 100,000 light-years on a side, the volume of the cube represented in the picture is 10^63 cubic meters,which is about 10^42 times the size of the earth, on the order of a billion decillion (a billion billion trillion trillion) times larger than the earth.

[MarginOfError]

What is this, a World's Biggest Nerd convention?

[bytor2112]

Things to ponder.......

1. If you could hie to Kolob In the twinkling of an eye,

And then continue onward With that same speed to fly,

Do you think that you could ever, Through all eternity,

Find out the generation Where Gods began to be?

2. Or see the grand beginning, Where space did not extend?

Or view the last creation, Where Gods and matter end?

Me thinks the Spirit whispers, “No man has found ‘pure space,’

Nor seen the outside curtains, Where nothing has a place.”

3. The works of God continue, And worlds and lives abound;

Improvement and progression Have one eternal round.

There is no end to matter; There is no end to space;

There is no end to spirit; There is no end to race.

4. There is no end to virtue; There is no end to might;

There is no end to wisdom; There is no end to light.

There is no end to union; There is no end to youth;

There is no end to priesthood; There is no end to truth.

5. There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;

There is no end to being; There is no death above.

There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;

There is no end to being; There is no death above.

[WANDERER]

I must have ended up with the shortened version of the hymn when I navigated on it. I quite like verse 4 and 5. Skewed internet strikes again.

[Misshalfway]

I believe God follows eternal law. Part of those eternal laws we know as natural law. Does life spontaneously happen???? I think it appears to from our earth-bound perspective. In the book of Abraham (the Pearl) it is clear that God commands and the very elements obey him.

Abraham 4:18 in reference to the creation of this earth; "And the Gods watched those things which they had ordered until they obeyed."

[DanielNicolai]

The earth is something under 13,000,000 meters in diameter, so it would fit into a cubical box of volume 2 x 10^21 cubic meters (that's two sextillion cubic meters).

We can't tell how "big" the size of the square in the picture represents, but we can guess. If it's considered a cube and at the level of the foreground stars, it is perhaps tens to hundreds of light-years on an edge. If it's at the level of the background galaxy, then it is perhaps one or several hundred thousand light-years on an edge.

Since a light-year is about 10^16 meters, a cube 100 light-years on an edge will be 10^54 cubic meters in volume, or around 10^33 times the size of the earth. That's around a decillion times larger than the earth, considerably more than "a few million".

If we take the larger, galaxy-sized estimate of 100,000 light-years on a side, the volume of the cube represented in the picture is 10^63 cubic meters,which is about 10^42 times the size of the earth, on the order of a billion decillion (a billion billion trillion trillion) times larger than the earth.

Neerrrrrd!

[HiJolly]

What is this, a World's Biggest Nerd convention?

No, in LDS terms that'll be in 2 days (Thursday & Friday) at the South Towne Exposition Center in South Jordan, 9-5:30. (the annual FAIR conference)

HiJolly

p.s. I'll be there!

[DigitalShadow]

No, in LDS terms that'll be in 2 days (Thursday & Friday) at the South Towne Exposition Center in South Jordan, 9-5:30. (the annual FAIR conference)

HiJolly

p.s. I'll be there!

That would be interesting to go to. If only it weren't exclusively during work hours

[Bookmeister]

"And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten." Moses 1:33.

"But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For Behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them." Moses 1:35

"I am he who said--Other sheep have I which are not of this fold--unto my disciples, and many there were that understood me not." D&C 10:59

"And I will show unto this people that I had other sheep, and that they were a branch of the house of Jacob." D&C 10:60

"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." John 10:16

So, from my point of view, there's absolutely nothing wrong with believing that life exists in places other than the Earth.

Edited August 5, 2008 by Bookmeister
typos

[DigitalShadow]

Just found out the discovery that the president was informed on was the presence of Perchlorate. Not sure why that is such a big deal, possibly useful for terraforming, or fuel for a return trip from Mars. In any case it is not nearly as interesting as I was expecting :)

Link: NASA - NASA Spacecraft Analyzing Martian Soil Data

[funkymonkey]

I really like the idea of other worlds. When I was a kid I would just stare at the stars for hours and it never ceased to amaze me just how big God's paintbrush really is.

I have a spinoff irrelevant question/speculation... Is Christ the savior of all worlds? Or just this one?

I know it doesn't really matter...it's just one of those silly questions I've always had.

[Misshalfway]

I really like the idea of other worlds. When I was a kid I would just stare at the stars for hours and it never ceased to amaze me just how big God's paintbrush really is.

I have a spinoff irrelevant question/speculation... Is Christ the savior of all worlds? Or just this one?

I know it doesn't really matter...it's just one of those silly questions I've always had.

From what I have been told, yes. I am not sure if that is "intelligent speculation" or official revealed doctrine.

[HiJolly]

From what I have been told, yes. I am not sure if that is "intelligent speculation" or official revealed doctrine.

Good answer; and I'd go with the former.

HiJolly

[Moksha]

I'm waiting to see some pictures of Fiannan on Mars, flanked by two Martian girls holding some vlorpwuls.

Wonder when the Union Aerospace Corporation (UAC) will commence mining operations?

[Bookmeister]

Funky...I don't think it's a silly question (although I also don't think it's gonna be asked on the final exam...LOL), but my response would be that Moses 1:33, "and by the Son I created them (worlds without number)" seems to suggest that the Savior, under the direction of Heavenly Father, created those other worlds, so I would be inclined towards the notion that Christ is the Savior for all of these worlds without number.

On the other hand, I could be really, REALLY wrong!!! LOL

[ruthiechan]

Funky...I don't think it's a silly question (although I also don't think it's gonna be asked on the final exam...LOL), but my response would be that Moses 1:33, "and by the Son I created them (worlds without number)" seems to suggest that the Savior, under the direction of Heavenly Father, created those other worlds, so I would be inclined towards the notion that Christ is the Savior for all of these worlds without number.

On the other hand, I could be really, REALLY wrong!!! LOL

Yeah, and we're the only planet that would have people awful enough to kill their Savior. Thusly, the worst spirits are here, but in order to counteract them the best spirits are also here. That's what I've heard.