The View From the Other Side

[MarginOfError]

I recently went on a rant against Mormons from Utah and all the reasons I sometimes find them annoying. It was brought to my attention by someone that I might have been a bit mean. However, my feelings still stand and they are what they are. However, it made me wonder something I've never really thought about before. What do Mormons from Utah think of us that aren't from Utah. What are the things we do that dive the Utahns nuts?

Please share. I'm kind of curious.

[StrawberryFields]

I think it's on an individual basis MOE!

It would be silly to group people according to where they live their religion don't you think?

[NeuroTypical]

I figure a lot of it is personal preference. There's unique aspects of every kind of culture, some folks like it, some dislike it. Unfortunately, when someone doesn't like some aspect, it's easy to feel personally attacked.

I personally enjoy the company of reformed sinners, and sinners in the process of reforming themselves. My wife and I both can be great conversationalists on topics of mental illness, addiction, divorce, dealing with evil and harmful people, how courts and jails work, and similar topics. We're very much out of place in groups who enjoy talking about more mainstream topics like choir practice, fun vacation spots, furniture styles, the ins and outs of the Young Women program, and the plethora of safe and pleasant conversation topics the gospel-centered people of the world seem to enjoy talking about. If you've watched Jim Carrey play The Grinch who Stole Christmas, the same things that set him off, set us off.

So, we're out of Utah, and we've never been happier. We're also out of covenant-protected housing developments and demanding social clubs. It works for us. If you enjoy something different, fine by me.

LM

[MarginOfError]

It would be silly to group people according to where they live their religion don't you think?

Not at all. I think it's perfectly fine to overly-generalize. Your comment only shows your womanly irrationality. (snicker snicker)

No, I realize that there's a lot of personal preference. It just occurred to me that I've heard a lot of the things that drive us out-of-Utah people nuts about the in-Utah people. For my own sick entertainment, I'm curious about the other side. Who knows, maybe I might alter my behavior too, in order to be a little less annoying.

But, if no one has anything to say, then I'll assume it's because those of us out of Utah really are superior to those of you in Utah :-)

[StrawberryFields]

Seriously, I know there are Self-Rightous-Mormons in every State. Is that what you are saying? You have not said how you feel about Utah Mormons.

[MarginOfError]

I did actually, but it was in another thread

Life Outside of Utah. My comments are on the second page, post number 14.

But in the interest of time, here's the full text.

In the interest of full disclosure, let me just say that I despise Utah. So go ahead and take anything I say with a grain of salt.

We have a lot of people come to live out here for school (Dental, Medical, and Law) and the thing that really gets me is how much the Utah people complain about having to drive six miles (10 minutes) to get to Church. It level of annoyance rises as their level of sincerity rises. There are some people here that hate being here solely because it's so far to Church. Yet, in the area I grew up, we had to travel 40 minutes to get to Church, and that was if the guards at the border didn't require us to stop. I drove 25 minutes every morning to get to Seminary, and I had one of the shorter trips. Stake Conference and any Stake Priesthood meetings were almost two and a half hours away. And the temple!? Try 13 hours. So really, don't complain that it's more than two blocks to the chapel...those of us outside of Utah have no sympathy for you.

If I can get past that issue with the Utards, then I usually get caught on issue number two...they can't stand the place because the Church doesn't necessarily function like they saw it function in Utah. When i moved into my current ward a year ago, I wanted to get involved in Scouting. The ward here has two young men, and the scouting program was falling apart. The Bishopric asked for my advice and suggestions on how to put it back together, so I looked at the available resources and recommended that they shut down their scouting program and join an active troop sponsored by one of the local communities (the ward here has all of two young men, one of whom has no interest in scouting). But a lot of people freaked out about the idea, saying that we couldn't possibly go to a community troop because the Church has to run scouting in order to involve the Gospel element of it (which, by the way, is totally false). As a result, the ward is now trying to maintain a scout troop for 1 boy in this ward and three in a neighboring ward with almost zero budget, next to nothing for leadership, and an entirely untrained team of leaders. So far it's been a disaster, and two of the boys have left the troop to join a community troop.

And the last thing that really gets me, in all this scouting fiasco, I joined a community troop. I just decided I wanted to do it, so I went and did it. I didn't get one dirty look or complaint from any of the ward members (who I thought would criticize that I should be helping the Ward's troop), but I did get dirty looks because, as they put it, "you're doing something without a calling?" Imagine the shock that a person could volunteer to contribute something to the community without being asked by the Bishop!

Okay okay okay, not all of the people from Utah are these kinds of Utards, and I've got some wonderful friends from Utah. But they recognize that it is possible to live outside of Utah and be happy. I just want the Utards, while they're here, to keep their mouths shut and get back to Utah as soon as they can so I don't have to deal with them.

[Spacemecha]

I can tell you how I feel about this subject. I don't feel like making a judgement call on whether Utah Mormons are better or worse then non-Utah Mormons in any way or from any point of view should be called for. I don't believe that this kind of questioning will lead to anything good.

[Moksha]

Perhaps some Utah Mormons know they do things the one true way in their Utah ward, and that those in the hinterland who deviate from that are simply out of touch with the light. :)

[Dr T]

I think it's on an individual basis MOE!

It would be silly to group people according to where they live their religion don't you think?

Any more silly than the broad generalizations about "women are this way" while "guys are that way" that we've been reading a bunch in recent threads?

[MarginOfError]

Perhaps some Utah Mormons know they do things the one true way in their Utah ward, and that those in the hinterland who deviate from that are simply out of touch with the light.

It isn't hard to stay in touch with the light when you live in the desert.:)

[Honor]

What do Mormons from Utah think of us that aren't from Utah. What are the things we do that drive the Utahns nuts?

Please share. I'm kind of curious.

You complain about Utahns. HAHAHA

I had a conversation with a friend of mine on the subject. It went something like this:

Moi: There have been 3 threads started that turned into "Why we hate Utah" conversations.

Friend: That’s because Utahns are generally provincial xenophobic closet religious bigots who naively fall for any piece of false doctrine or get rich quick scheme presented to them and package this series of human failings together as a "culture".

Moi: HAHA. You started all 3 of them didn‘t you?!…..

I dunno, I have yet to live in a ward that doesn't have some “Utah” aspects to them. Half my ward from Cali moved to Alpine, but they’ll never think that they’re ………Utahns… gasp! Even if they fit right in!

Do you think there's hope for any large group of members of the church really being the kind of covenant people we‘re supposed to be?

Friend: Yeah, with humility, which is certainly lacking. Otherwise what's the good of it?

Wouldn’t ANY large group of Mormons take on “Utahn” qualities? I guess that’s why I have to laugh when people from other highly populated LDS areas complain about Utah. The things that I personally don’t like about Utah are duplicated elsewhere, just in slightly smaller numbers.

This just seems to be one of those topics that people love to get carried away with and it turns into regurgitated opinions and generalizations rather than totally accurate or constructive observations. What’s the point of complaining?

[StrawberryFields]

I did actually, but it was in another thread

Life Outside of Utah. My comments are on the second page, post number 14.

But in the interest of time, here's the full text.

In the interest of full disclosure, let me just say that I despise Utah. So go ahead and take anything I say with a grain of salt.

Silly Goose!

Why would I read that thread, it simply does not apply to me.

[a-train]

Utah has within it many great members of the Church, but it also has some of the most openly apostate people I've ever seen. I don't think this is any defect with the Church or Utah culture, but rather the natural course that people take when they are brought up in a society of religion that they feel they cannot accept or live up to. Perhaps they can't just blend in. Everybody on their street knows them and their folks. Their whole block is looking to them to go on a mission, to be married in the temple, etc. While this may or may not be reality, it is their perception.

Those so disenfranchised tent to flock together in clicks, just like all the various groups of 'rejects' throughout the societies of the world. The trench-coat kids, the gays, the dweebs, the cholos, the whatevers, tend to group up and make their differences with society more acute and visible.

Further, drugs, sex, and all the evils plaguing American High Schools have place in Utah just as in Dallas, Atlanta, LA, and elsewhere. LDS youth take comfort in one another's common position as they break the word of wisdom or the law of chastity. It's the old: 'Well, so and so smoked out and blessed the sacrament the next morning, so it's no big deal if I do too.'

While LDS youth in schools across America can blend in or go unnoticed as Mormons, Utah kids go to school with LDS kids that can or do evaluate their obedience to LDS teachings.

While this social dynamic changes with adulthood, it only becomes more complex in the community and workplace.

Much of the issue is all in the mind of the individual. I don't blame society. Society cannot help it.

There can also arise the tendency of judgmentalism and even snobbish attitudes. I haven't seen it much in my life, buy I don't doubt there are those who feel that they are better than others because they have never violated the word of wisdom or the law of chastity or because they went to their meetings this week or because they were called to be the Elders Quorum President.

We must all remember the words of Janet Jackson: 'What have you done for me lately.' The only thing that matters is our current attitude, it matters not what we have done in the past either good or bad, sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. And the Sauls of today can be the Pauls of tomorrow.

-a-train

Edited September 3, 2008 by a-train

[NeuroTypical]

Moi: There have been 3 threads started that turned into "Why we hate Utah" conversations.

Friend: That’s because Utahns are generally provincial xenophobic closet religious bigots who naively fall for any piece of false doctrine or get rich quick scheme presented to them and package this series of human failings together as a "culture".

When my cousin from Utah comes and visits us here in CO, he always introduces himself to LDS folks as "from the great walled city of Sandy, UT".

LM

[unixknight]

I personally enjoy the company of reformed sinners, and sinners in the process of reforming themselves. My wife and I both can be great conversationalists on topics of mental illness, addiction, divorce, dealing with evil and harmful people, how courts and jails work, and similar topics.

Heh I can tell you some stories from my own life...

[breeb]

I think we're all the same.....except some outside Mormons seem to think they are better than us inside Mormons.

[checkerboy]

I think we're all the same.....except some outside Mormons seem to think they are better than us inside Mormons.

You have that backwards I do believe.

[breeb]

I have nothing but respect for those outside Utah. I think its the anti's inside Utah that are worse than those outside Utah, but the members (for the most part) are all the same. My aunt did have a really bad experience when she moved to New Hampshire. One of the members gave her crap about not having more than one child. She lectured her on how she was commanded to bring spirits down into a loving LDS family. Little did this lady know that my aunt couldnt have kids. The one she had was adopted. Now my aunt could say, "those outside Mormons are so insensitive and rude!" but instead it was just that one lady that didnt think her statement through. Its all a matter of perspective. I guess I'm a glass is half full kinda person.

[NeuroTypical]

My little ward in CO was once widely recognized at the stake level as "most bearded". We're an interesting mix of city folk who commute back and forth to their large homes, and reclusive backwoodsmen. Our old Bishop once got in trouble with the Stake Pres. for having a musical number in Sacrament meeting include a guitar. We have one guy who converts all his income to US gold dollars in preparation for the pending collapse of civilization - and he pays his tithing based on the stated value of the coins, not the actual value. At the town parade a few years back, the LDS float was followed by the local gun club firing their guns up in the air - it looked like Jackson County all over again.

Good times.

LM

[countrygirl66]

Just had a couple of thoughts. I grew up in Idaho (close to Utah) and now have lived in Utah for 23 years. I have had great experiences both places. I wonder if you have thought about the knowledge and faith that you have developed living far away from Utah. You probably have had to sacrifice to get to meeting and things for other ward members. I have a good friend from california that lived here for a while and didn't like it, she eventually moved back and loves it there. Sometimes I think when you know better you do better. I haven't lived where I have had to sacrifice to get to meetings and conferences and so think it would be an adjustment for me. I hope that if I moved to your state that you would be patient with me and realize that I was learning and growing. As far as the scout thing I have lived in 2 wards in Utah and have had members of other churches in both experiences. They were wonderful people and taught me a lot. One lady taught me a great lesson about staying on scedule. She would come to the scout meeting and say I'm here for one hour at the end of the hour she would leave wheather we were done or not. She made me feel that it is ok to do that and I am forever grateful. Another that I have worked with taught me a lot about just being a good example. They are one of the most loving and faithful families I have met. They are 100% faithful to their church and very active in it but also have great respect for my beliefs. I am sorry that you didn't like Utah. I'll admit that it is even different from Idaho. I think that the quote (grow where you are planted) may mean something here. Maybe you have an insite into the gospel that those who haven't lived out of state do not yet have and maybe don't even know would be of value to them. My wonderful friend from CA said to me one day that she had never heard mormon women swear until she moved to UT. It made me more concious of the example I set. Try to have patience with us because like all we are still growing and learning in the gospel even if we sometimes don't think we need to learn the lord shows us different. Just my thoughts.

[Moksha]

When my cousin from Utah comes and visits us here in CO, he always introduces himself to LDS folks as "from the great walled city of Sandy, UT".

LM

Located atop Planet Utah? :)

[Truegrits]

My aunt did have a really bad experience when she moved to New Hampshire. One of the members gave her crap about not having more than one child. She lectured her on how she was commanded to bring spirits down into a loving LDS family. Little did this lady know that my aunt couldnt have kids. The one she had was adopted.

That is why we should not judge others self-righteously. Rarely do we know another's circumstances fully. Also, it is not another's business how many children one does or does not have.

[Wingnut]

I have a friend who had a similar experience, except that it was when she went to Utah. The worst part is that her husband's family doesn't like her much, partly because they don't have kids, even though they can't.

[breeb]

I have a friend who had a similar experience, except that it was when she went to Utah.

Thank you. This illustrates my point perfectly. Whether its inside Utah or outside Utah, we're all members of the same family and we all have our quirks. Now I can take the jokes just as well as dish them out. I joke with my family that chose to move outside of Utah all the time. But in all seriousness I think members are members no matter where they live. You'll have those that go to the extreme no matter where you are. It may just be that you come across more people like that because there are more members in Utah. Is that so bad? I love that when someone hears I'm from Utah they automatically ask, "Are you Mormon?" I'm glad that I get that chance to proudly claim Christ's Church as often as I do.