Embryo Donation...

[kona0197]

I find many laws in the western world really strange. In England for instance you can get an abortion for just about any reason in the 1st. trimester and it is pretty easy in the 2nd.

England needs to change the abortion laws. Murder is murder.

[kona0197]

All you who think donating is OK imagine this:

That child you are watching is your nephew but it has the DNA from your wife.

Technically it's YOUR kid.

NOT OK at ALL.

[MarginOfError]

Okay, kona, we get your point of view, and you get ours...how about everyone plays nice and just drops it. I feel bad for momof5, who just wanted honest opinions on the situation and we're slowly turning it into a competition for best opinion. I can't say I like where it's headed.

momof5, I think the key point to take away from this is that you really can't make a bad decision in this case. As far as I can tell, it's an emotional decision. If you feel comfortable with the decision to donate your eggs to other couples, with or without restrictions, then we'll all support that.

And we'll all be anxious to see the miracle babies when they arrive.

[Vort]

Correction: It's not egg donation, it's blastocyte donation.

[MarginOfError]

Potato, potahto...not many of us care as much about the technical details as we do the overarching topic. In this case, even the less specific term carries sufficient meaning.

[Hemidakota]

My husband and I have three sons and I am now pregnant with twins. We did IVF due to trauma to my husband after the 3 boys were born. My RE suspected that I would produce around 12 eggs and instead I produced 47! I actually set a record...anyhow, of those 47, 27 fertilized. We did a day 5 embryo transfer and of those 27 eggs 13 made it to a day 5 blastocyst. We implanted 2 an I am pregnant with two. Our problem is that we have 11 grade "A" blasts that we probably won't use. Our RE told us that our options are to either donate them to someone, destroy them, or donate them to medical research. We aren't sure of what to do. My husband and I are extremely active in the church and we are trying to figure out what is best. If we did donate them we would only want to give them to an active sealed couple in the church. Any thoughts? There is no way we can have 11 more babies!!!!

Spend a moment with your home ward Bishop, in ensuring you are 'doing the right'.

[Vort]

Potato, potahto...not many of us care as much about the technical details as we do the overarching topic. In this case, even the less specific term carries sufficient meaning.

It's not a meaningless detail or a matter of specificity. It's a different thing entirely. An egg is just a haploid cell; a blastocyte is the beginnings of an individual human being.

[MarginOfError]

It's not a meaningless detail or a matter of specificity. It's a different thing entirely. An egg is just a haploid cell; a blastocyte is the beginnings of an individual human being.

You may need to have a chat with the head of the Gynecology Department here. He specializes in IVF and fertility treatments, and when he talks about this process, he talks about implanting eggs, donating eggs, eggs this and eggs that. In fact, the only time he or his colleagues use the word blastocyte is when they're writing a manuscript. Apparently, not even the experts feel that there is that much need for clarity in casual conversation.

Edited September 25, 2008 by MarginOfError
spelling error

[Vort]

You may need to have a chat with the head of the Gynecology Department here. He specializes in IVF and fertility treatments, and when he talks about this process, he talks about implanting eggs, donating eggs, eggs this and eggs that. In fact, the only time he or his colleagues use the word blastocyte is when they're writing a manuscript. Apparently, not even the experts feel that there is that much need for clarity in casual conversation.

Donating an egg, which is common, is entirely different from donating a blastocyte, which is not common. Not sure what to suggest about your friend. Possibly, you aren't following his meaning. I'm pretty sure that no IVF expert, even in casual conversation, would describe both ovum and blastocyte donations using the same term. It would be like describing both a valve replacement and a heart transplant using the term "valve replacement". Well, yes, technically speaking, if you replace the entire heart, you are replacing the valves, so I suppose it's a "valve replacement" of sorts...and if you implant a blastocyte, technically speaking you are implanting an egg (after it has been fertilized into a diploid cell and then begun dividing, in more or less the same sense that you and I are both eggs), so I suppose it's an "egg implant" of sorts...

[Lbybug]

anyone else feel like we're just talking in circles here/

[sealed2myBFF]

Hi, I'm brand new to this board. I know this topic is being pulled in circles, but I thought I'd give my input. My husband is sterile, so we can't have children. I know that Heavenly Father loves us, and wants the best for us. He set the rules for this world, including all the physical rules, and He sticks to them just as much as He asks us to. Because my husband made mistakes before does not mean Heavenly Father doesn't WANT us to be parents...it just means my husband used his agency, and now we face the natural consequences. We plan to adopt, but we would really like the chance for me to give birth. The chance for us to go through the pregnancy together. I think Heavenly Father has given doctors the knowledge to make this dream possible for people like us who can't do it without that blessed help! If someone were to give us this opportunity, we would quite literally jump at the chance...regardless of DNA or technicalities. I think Heavenly Father loves me and knows the desires of my heart. I also believe He's merciful enough to allow me this chance. I also believe He's great enough to put us in a situation where all the physical laws are still being met, and our desires have a chance of coming true.

By the way, I'm so happy to be on this site!

[Fiannan]

Hi, I'm brand new to this board. I know this topic is being pulled in circles, but I thought I'd give my input. My husband is sterile, so we can't have children. I know that Heavenly Father loves us, and wants the best for us. He set the rules for this world, including all the physical rules, and He sticks to them just as much as He asks us to. Because my husband made mistakes before does not mean Heavenly Father doesn't WANT us to be parents...it just means my husband used his agency, and now we face the natural consequences. We plan to adopt, but we would really like the chance for me to give birth. The chance for us to go through the pregnancy together. I think Heavenly Father has given doctors the knowledge to make this dream possible for people like us who can't do it without that blessed help! If someone were to give us this opportunity, we would quite literally jump at the chance...regardless of DNA or technicalities. I think Heavenly Father loves me and knows the desires of my heart. I also believe He's merciful enough to allow me this chance. I also believe He's great enough to put us in a situation where all the physical laws are still being met, and our desires have a chance of coming true.

By the way, I'm so happy to be on this site!

You can go on the net and find many sperm donation clinics -- some even list the donor's religion if you were looking for a Mormon donor. Do you have an LDS doctor? Talk with him and he will inform you of the best way you can obtain IVF treatment. Also, many clinics will store sperm so if you want, let's say 4 children, they can make sure all the children have the same male donor so they are all full brother and sister.

Yes, isn¨'t it ironic that when our laws went full force at preventing births in the USA that doctors discovered ways to help people have kids? Coincidence or God-given inspiration to help bring spirits into this world? One can wonder.

[funkymonkey]

All you who think donating is OK imagine this:

That child you are watching is your nephew but it has the DNA from your wife.

Technically it's YOUR kid.

NOT OK at ALL.

Forgive me but I still don't get what the big deal is. I think God has given a wonderful science to us to be used responsibly, and a commandment was given to multiply and replenish the earth. Whatever way these little spirits can get healthy little bodies is great to me.

I myself cannot have kids. My hubby and I have struggled with this for 5 years. I find peace in knowing that the Lord wants us to be parents, and through personal revelation has made it very clear to us that we are to explore other avenues than adoption...which leaves us with the kind of technology that is being discussed. I can promise you the Lord wishes me to use this technology...so if the Lord has directed us, how can it be "not ok?"

Back in the bibical days, if a man could not conceive with his wife he could try to conceive with another woman whom he was not married to. It's not like it's a new concept to have different genes mixed into a family.

[ruthiechan]

Funky, from what I understand is that Kona isn't against IVF, but is against donating eggs, or sperm. He also seems to be confusing donating eggs and donating blastocysts (fertilized eggs at day 5). I could be wrong though. *shrug*

Also in biblical days I believe the husband marries the person he has children like Abram did. Sarai couldn't give him children so Hagar was offered to him and he married her before he had children with her. Though it could be that is not the case with all such gene swapping.

All you who think donating is OK imagine this:

That child you are watching is your nephew but it has the DNA from your wife.

Technically it's YOUR kid.

NOT OK at ALL.

This is why I wouldn't donate eggs or blastocysts to family or friends. I would become too attached and obsessive over the child with my DNA that way.

Edited September 25, 2008 by ruthiechan

[Hemidakota]

Ruthie, I do agree with your statement and Kona's viewpoint.

To the original author, in receiving a appropriate answer, you need to visit your Bishop.

[Guest SisterofJared]

I don't understand why she would need to visit her Bishop.

Really, a bishop is not supposed to take the place of using our own brains and praying for our answers. Far too many times people run to their bishops for answers that they are entitled to recieve on their own.

The bishop does not stand in place of God. He has a certain responsibility to his congregation and can be a huge blessing in someone's life, but there really isn't a need to run to them for answers that we are entitled to recieve ourselves. Do we believe in personal revelation or not?

Sister of Jared

[Iggy]

Mom of 5- why don't you contact LDS Family Services? I know that they council unwed mothers, and they also help in placing children for adoption with-in LDS families. Seems they should be able to help in this instance.

As for you and your husband counseling with anyone- seems to me that you have counseled with the highest authority already - Heavenly Father and have received His answer.

[kona0197]

I've already said my fill in this thread. I will say no more.

[Elphaba]

Yes, isn¨'t it ironic that when our laws went full force at preventing births in the USA

What are you talking about? Our laws never went "full force" at preventing births.

Elphaba

[Gwen]

let's not hijack the thread..... :)

as for talking to the bishop... yes i think she should....

there is information regarding this topic in the church handbook of instruction..... her bishop can help give her and her husband an alternate opinion (which she obviously wants or she would not be asking here) but instead of like us and being all our personal opinions it could be a potentially inspired opinion from her line of authority. where is the harm in gathering more information from the appropriate source before taking a decision to the lord?

yes in the end it is her and her husband's decision to be made with the lord in prayer. no one is saying the bishop will negate that.....

just a bit more info from someone she actually knows instead of all us anonymous opinionated folk out here in cyber land.

[codyn]

I would donote them. I havn't had any kids yet, but I am kinda scared. I work in tele comms and i've been doused with radation several times. I'm not talking a X-ray at the hospital worth of radation, it was enough for soft tissue to hurt and eyes burned. I pray that I can have kids so you are very lucky!

[sealed2myBFF]

Originally Posted by Fiannan

Yes, isn¨'t it ironic that when our laws went full force at preventing births in the USA

What are you talking about? Our laws never went "full force" at preventing births.

I believe that was in response to my post, but I think I was misunderstood. The physical laws I was referring to were things that naturally happen to our bodies and the effects of that. Like my husband. He chose to ride motorcycles, got in a couple accidents, and got damaged right in the place that would create living, healthy sperm. As a result, he can't have kids. That may not exactly be a "law" of our bodies, but the word isn't the point. It's the way we are made, and there's no getting around it. I'm just grateful that even with those physical cause and effect laws in play, Heavenly Father provided the knowledge for us to still bring His spirit children to life!

[sealed2myBFF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiannan

Yes, isn¨'t it ironic that when our laws went full force at preventing births in the USA

What are you talking about? Our laws never went "full force" at preventing births.

This first part was in response to me, and I believe I was misunderstood on one thing. The laws I was talking about were physical laws of our bodies. Like my husband...he chose to ride motorcycles, got in a couple accidents, and was badly injured in the place where male bodies produce living, healthy sperm. So now he can't have children. I'm not sure if that's a 'law' of our body actually, but the word is not important. It's how we were created, and there's no getting around it. I'm just grateful that even with the physical cause and effect laws in play, Heavenly Father has chosen to supply us with the knowledge to still multiply and bring His wonderful spirit children to life!

[Fiannan]

let's not hijack the thread..... :)

as for talking to the bishop... yes i think she should....

there is information regarding this topic in the church handbook of instruction..... her bishop can help give her and her husband an alternate opinion (which she obviously wants or she would not be asking here) but instead of like us and being all our personal opinions it could be a potentially inspired opinion from her line of authority. where is the harm in gathering more information from the appropriate source before taking a decision to the lord?

yes in the end it is her and her husband's decision to be made with the lord in prayer. no one is saying the bishop will negate that.....

just a bit more info from someone she actually knows instead of all us anonymous opinionated folk out here in cyber land.

It would be cool if her bishop was a fertility specialist. The handbook is merely a general guide or it would be made public. So yes, maybe she should talk with her bishop -- the answer for her might be totally different thanthe general guide might suggest. A person can go to their bishop and say they absolutely do not have any desire to go on a mission. Most bishops won't pressure the guy to do so but will encourage him to at least pray about it. That's what a couple should do in regards to pregnancy in general (involving the Lord might just bump up the birthrate a bit). As for advanced fertility treatments what might be right for one person might not be right for another. That's the beauty of prayer and inspiration.

[Gwen]

i do believe i said that it was a decision for the couple and the lord. my point was some ppl seem to believe we should take nothing to the bishop. while i agree the bishop has a lot to do and thus we shouldn't bring silly things to him, this isn't a silly matter. the church has made a guideline statement on it. if i were making that decision i'd like that information to consider in my decision making process. if one has never asked the question they may not know the church has made such statements and not think to ask. my whole point was that there was info out there she and her husband may want in making this decision and that can be received from the bishop.

the handbook is more than "general guidelines" some things yes it gives "advice" and then says the couple need to make the decision prayfuly. however there is a lot there that is hard fast rules. rules that do not need to be made public but do need to be followed. i find it ironc how much some ppl like to downplay the importance of advice from the lord's divinly appointed leaders.