Embryo Donation...

[kona0197]

But the fact still remains that the child was created using someone else's DNA. That's not right.

Almost disgusting.

[Moksha]

But the fact still remains that the child was created using someone else's DNA. That's not right.

Almost disgusting.

My guess is that later on if you ask the child whether they are glad they were born, the answer would be yes.

Bloodlines might be important for race horses or show dogs, but we humans do not need that. If you must worry about a pedigree, think of God as an adequate progenitor.

[kona0197]

Yes we DO need pure bloodlines.

[WANDERER]

I vote...donate to a couple...same thing as adoption really IMO. Perhaps you could talk your wish over with your doctor, though it might not be possible...you never know...it might give another couple great joy. I definitely think they should be given the chance for life.

Kona I have a close family member that chose not to go IVF due to moral/religious issues regarding these choices. I didn't ask what their reasons were, but I'm sure they had good ones. But I wonder if they regret it sometimes. It's such a tough situation to be in and the decisions are never easy.

[kona0197]

It's really NOT like adoption. When you adopt you get a child who has the DNA of two other people. When you donate eggs you are giving away your bloodline and DNA so that child will be based on your blueprints.

NOT cool.

How would YOU like to have a little one running around that looks JUST like you and has YOUR blood but was birthed by ANOTHER woman?

Not cool at all.

[Lbybug]

that would be completely fine with me, as long as the child was happy.

how do you feel about this situation?....a married couple cannot have a child so they do IVF and the mother of the husband carries the child (sorry can't think of the term. tired.). anyways...does that change your view at all?

[Jenamarie]

Kona, is it disturbing to you that Joseph raised Jesus as his own son?

ETA: I have an adopted sister who was Sealed to us for Time and All Eternity. In the eyes of GOD it is just as if she were born to my mom and dad. The ties that Heavenly Father ties us together with trump the ties of blood, hands down.

[Gwen]

there is a website for lds couples looking to adopt....don't know if they have all tried ivf or want to....wouldn't hurt to check it out....

i do believe there is guidance in the church handbook of instruction your bishop has on the subject....if you are concerned ask him to look it up and show you what it says there

i personally do not believe those embryos have spirits assigned to them at that point so disposal is not like abortion.

[LolaBella]

For those of you that said "No Restrictions" consider this. If the child goes to a family that has less then ideal values that child then will be at a much greater disadvantage in regards to reaching the Celestial Kingdom then if that child was killed before reaching the age of accountability. Why not specify that you want an LDS family to raise the children?

I know several families witin my stake that are less than ideal. One of them beats their kids, the other locks them up in their rooms with no food for hours at a time. This is bordering on child abuse. Just because you are born into an LDS family does not guarantee you a good life. It seems by putting a restriction on who to donate the eggs to, you are saying that non-LDS people a) can't be trusted to bring up a child well and b) that only LDS deserbe it. People are people and being LDS has no bearing on whether a child will have a good upbringing or not.

[momof5]

My oldest sister is biologically my mother's but not my father's. When my dad adopted her my parents were then sealed to her. The church told my parents that because of the sealing, that it was as if my sister was of his bloodline. Further, I'm not just donating eggs, I am donating 5 day old embryos. They are mine and my husbands. Yes another woman would be carrying them and raising them. There would in fact be little babies running around that look like my husband and myself. This is why it is important to me that the babies be sealed to their parents. Does that make sense to you? I've had other friends that have said if Heavenly Father wanted you to have more, you would by faith...I can't agree with that. I don't think Heavenly Father says to someone, you don't get to have children. If that were the case, IVF wouldn't have worked for us in anyway. It would have completely failed. Not only did it not fail, i have a huge number of children that I could never possibly have. I don't want to just throw them out! I could never do that to any of my children. I would rather help someone who can not have babies, There are a lot of couple that have unexplained infertility which means everything works properly, but they just aren't compatible to have children together. Do you say to these people, you just never get to have children...until the life hereafter? These babies are already made. I do see how it is like adoption. Do you say to a single mother who gave her child up that she is doing the wrong thing? I'm not single by any means, but if I don't donate these babies to someone they will die. I can't do that to them.

[WANDERER]

Not eggs, fertilized embryos..complete with the DNA of both mother and father.

Edit: simultaneous post

Edited September 24, 2008 by WANDERER

[momof5]

i also must say that any family willing to adopt or that are doing ivf or fet (frozen embryo transfer) are going to probably be good parents. They aren't having an unexpected child, they would have wanted them for YEARS. It takes a lot of trying and tests to end up there. If ivf wouldn't have worked for us, we would have gone through adoption. I can't see a person going and abusing this bab that they were blessed with after years of wanting one. Again the main reason for the LDS family is so that the baby is as if it were always their own, Not because I think LDS members are better than anyone else. I also want the baby to grow up in the church. If that is the only thing I can do for them, then so be it.

[Gwen]

so when does the sealing take effect? birth or conception? if birth then you could donate to a sealed couple and they would be bic to that couple, if conception then they are already sealed to you......hummm

another thought, a number of embryos are naturally miscarried/aborted by the woman's own body and flushed from her system by a normal cycle without the woman ever knowing she was prego (the reason ivf implants more than one embryo, assuming some will not make it)....do those have spirits yet? are they different than the ones that are frozen? ...... just thinking here

[momof5]

good point.

[checkerboy]

I know several families witin my stake that are less than ideal. One of them beats their kids, the other locks them up in their rooms with no food for hours at a time. This is bordering on child abuse. Just because you are born into an LDS family does not guarantee you a good life. It seems by putting a restriction on who to donate the eggs to, you are saying that non-LDS people a) can't be trusted to bring up a child well and b) that only LDS deserbe it. People are people and being LDS has no bearing on whether a child will have a good upbringing or not.

Yes notice I never said that going to an LDS family will guarantee them a good life, I understand reality. And I also never said that non-LDS people can't be trusted to bring up a child well or that they are the only ones who deserve it.

What I did say (or hoped that you would infer from what I said) was that the odds of a child learning what they need to know in order to gain exaltation will be greater if they go to an LDS family. Yes I realize that they may be given the chance sometime in their life to be taught the gospel but if you have the opportunity to insure (as well as you can) that this would be the case wouldn't you take it? Aren't we told that we should share what we have with those around us? Isn't this just another way of sharing the gospel with souls who may or may not have a chance later in life?

Think about this...

One of the reasons that God wiped out almost all of humanity from the Flood was that the children being born at that time had absolutely no chance of being taught the gospel therefore almost ensuring that they would not have the opportunity to acheive exaltation.

Obviously everyone has agency but shouldn't we do all in our power to create a situation which has a higher chance of acheiving a successful outcome then sitting by and doing nothing? We have all heard the stories of how after this life those that we could have shared the gospel with but didn't will ask us why we didn't. In this situation can you imagine these children asking their parents why they let them go to a family that didn't teach them the gospel when they could have chosen a family that would have?

Stuff to ponder.

[siouxz72]

I know several families witin my stake that are less than ideal. One of them beats their kids, the other locks them up in their rooms with no food for hours at a time. This is bordering on child abuse.

Wow! Only bordering on?! I wonder what you would consider abuse.

[BenRaines]

Someone knows of child beatings and doesn't report it? Isn't that like being an accessory to child abuse? If it is rumor then don't rumormonger. If it is true then report it.

Ben Raines

[LolaBella]

Wow! Only bordering on?! I wonder what you would consider abuse.

ok it is is child abuse, badly phrased. Yesa it has been reported and is being dealt with now.

[Fiannan]

What I did say (or hoped that you would infer from what I said) was that the odds of a child learning what they need to know in order to gain exaltation will be greater if they go to an LDS family. Yes I realize that they may be given the chance sometime in their life to be taught the gospel but if you have the opportunity to insure (as well as you can) that this would be the case wouldn't you take it? Aren't we told that we should share what we have with those around us? Isn't this just another way of sharing the gospel with souls who may or may not have a chance later in life?

Now that is a thought! If more healthy, intelligent LDS people did donate eggs, embryos and sperm then maybe those people who know that there are children out there who share their genetics they might be more prone to get out there and do missionary work.

I have thought that every man who is running for president and every senator and congressman should be required to donate sperm for several months and that the recipients would come from different economic and social backgrounds. I know it would never work but one wonders if the way these politicians work would be affected if they all knew they had biological children out there of a variety of backgrounds. Maybe they would be less likely to threaten war after they had served 18 years in the congress.

[kona0197]

Kona, is it disturbing to you that Joseph raised Jesus as his own son?

No. Jesus did not have the DNA of Joseph. Has no bearing on my views. Adoption is NOTHING like donating eggs.

[Fiannan]

But the fact still remains that the child was created using someone else's DNA. That's not right.

Almost disgusting.

Why is that? What if a man and woman marry and find out the husband is sterile and the wife has a genetic disorder that comes out a lot in her immediate family? What if those roles are reversed? Would you say they should skip having kids if they can solve the problem with obtaining a fertilized embryo?

What if a man is sterile and his wife is fertile? Why not get donor sperm? Same if the roles are reversed.

I find many laws in the western world really strange. In England for instance you can get an abortion for just about any reason in the 1st. trimester and it is pretty easy in the 2nd. yet they have so many restrictions on fertility treatment that many couples go to Spain where the clinics advertise for Russian and Polish donors, who look more like Brits than Spaniards do, and get sperm and egg there. Talk about complicated. So in a civilization on the decline, the west, that has many supports in legislation to prevent life from coming into the world, it is good to see options pop up to cultivate human life and spirits to come into the world.

[ruthiechan]

No. Jesus did not have the DNA of Joseph. Has no bearing on my views. Adoption is NOTHING like donating eggs.

She's not donating eggs. She's donating blastocysts, which are 5 day old fertilized eggs. So, both her DNA and her husband's have combined already. . .

[ruthiechan]

I know several families witin my stake that are less than ideal. One of them beats their kids, the other locks them up in their rooms with no food for hours at a time. This is bordering on child abuse. Just because you are born into an LDS family does not guarantee you a good life. It seems by putting a restriction on who to donate the eggs to, you are saying that non-LDS people a) can't be trusted to bring up a child well and b) that only LDS deserbe it. People are people and being LDS has no bearing on whether a child will have a good upbringing or not.

Both of these cases are abuse and both need to be reported.

It is okay to report people for suspecting abuse. You do not have to know it for certain.

[Vort]

What an interesting, and difficult, topic! If I were in your position and, for whatever reason, could not produce all 11 children, I suppose that I would check if family, then trusted friends, could "adopt" "my" babies. If not, I suppose I would try to find good Latter-day Saints who could "adopt" them, and then just good people of whatever religion or cultural background who wanted to "adopt". Failing all of that, I would consider donating the blastocytes to research, though I think that would be very tough for me. My last choice would be just to destroy them -- though to be clear, I don't consider that the same as aborting a pregnancy.

My first desire would be to grow them all into my very own children, and raise them myself (ourselves). But I realize this is not possible, or desirable, for everyone. The above is what I would probably do, but I make no personal judgment on anyone else based on what they might do.

[Guest SisterofJared]

Well, I think donating them is an excellent idea. You should be able to find eager couples easily, if with the sealed couple restriction. And it is a perfectly sensible good restriction! These children would biologically be yours, OF COURSE you want to provide the best homes possible. Non members can be great parents, loving and wise parents, but the wouldn't have the gospel.. You have got it exactly right in my thinking.

BTW, I have a daughter who is being sealed to her husband on October 3rd. He was a non member when they met, and barely baptised when they got married. He gets his endowments this Friday. We are all thrilled. But my daughter and her husband are so sad that he can't father children, the result of a motorcycle accident years ago. So I know a loving active LDS couple who would love to take some of those embryos!

Sister of Jared