Mentally Handicapped People

[richlittell]

WE DO KNOW WHY..the Prophet Sear and Revelator Harold B Lee had this to say on the subject...

"This privilege of obtaining a mortal body on this earth is seemingly so priceless that those in the spirit world, even though unfaithful or not valient, were undoubtedly permitted to take mortal bodies although under penalty of racial or physical or nationalistic limitations...." (Decisions for Successful Living pp 164-65) TLDP:497

Therefore handicapped people were not valient enough in the preexistence.

In response:

John 9:

2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

I think the Savior trumps "the Prophet Seer and Revelator Harold B Lee" on this one.

If this man were born blind, then the only sin he could have committed would have been in the pre-mortal existence--and Christ says straightforward, this man did not sin.

It is quite obvious that it is wrong to conclude that everyone who is born with any sort of disadvantage, be it physical, mental, nationality or otherwise is born so solely as a means of punishment. --However, I will not argue that it may be so in some cases. Every individual will be different. My experiences with the handicapped that I have had contact with is that they are wonderful, amazing and special spirits.

Edited November 30, 2008 by richlittell

[AngelonaWing]

Thank you Rich!!

[Shera]

I completely agree with Rich. We have been told that the same spirit and desires that posess our bodies in this life will carry onto the next. I believe that is similar with the preexistance. That's not to say you may have been unfaithful in the pre-existence and can't change it now, but for the most part I think our spirits were who we are now. If we tried to be faithful then, we will try now, if we weren't faithful then, I don't think many would try to be now. Why have we heard so many times that the strongest generation was saved for last? Because Heavenly Father knew that His faithful servants in Heaven would continue the fight here on earth.

I do think that there were unfaithful spirits who's penalty was to take on those specific limitations quoted by the prophet, but no where did he state that all handicapped people were unfaithful or not valiant. To say that is to say that all people of one race or all people in one nation were unfaithful, and that is absolutely not true! And anyone who says to another that they weren't valiant because they have a handicap, I hope does not profess to be a Christian, because that is not what Jesus taught, nor do the current prophets and apostles of this Church teach that!

If you were born with a handicap I stand by my thoughts that if you are trying to do your best in this life then it is a continuation of your pre-existence. And no one has the right to tell you that you weren't faithful in the pre-existence! And anyone who has spent time around handicap people knows that they are some of the MOST special and valiant that will EVER BE BORN!

When Elder Haight was still alive he spoke at our stake conference, when it was over he walked straight to my brother (who was born with severe cerebral palsy), everyone was in tears from the sweet things that apostle of the Lord had to say to my brother. I won't repeat those words here, but I testify to you that i know my brother was one of God's greatest and noblest sons, as well as thousands of other handicapped people on the earth, and he will recieve exaltation and all the Glories he has been promised by God!

[Hemidakota]

When Elder Haight was still alive he spoke at our stake conference, when it was over he walked straight to my brother (who was born with severe cerebral palsy), everyone was in tears from the sweet things that apostle of the Lord had to say to my brother. I won't repeat those words here, but I testify to you that i know my brother was one of God's greatest and noblest sons, as well as thousands of other handicapped people on the earth, and he will recieve exaltation and all the Glories he has been promised by God!

I always do the same...

[Alice]

I feel the same way. Good comments.

[Justice]

I have been pondering on this topic because of something I read (maybe discovered for myself) in the Book of Mormon.

I was prompted by something Elder Bednar said at a bi-stake conference a few years ago. He said that (paraphrasing) the stories of the wars in the Book of Mormon are not there so we can learn about the bloodshed and body counts. He said they were put in the Book of Mormon to teach us about spiritual things.

One day, months after this conference, I was reading in Alma and a big red flag went up.

Alma 43:

1 And now it came to pass that the sons of Alma did go forth among the people, to declare the word unto them. And Alma, also, himself, could not rest, and he also went forth.

2 Now we shall say no more concerning their preaching, except that they preached the word, and the truth, according to the spirit of prophecy and revelation; and they preached after the holy order of God by which they were called.

3 And now I return to an account of the wars between the Nephites and the Lamanites, in the eighteenth year of the reign of the judges.

This seemed to jump right off the page to me. I knew that this was one of those times where we're supposed to learn something spiritual from the account of their wars. As I waded into the chapter, I discovered amazing things.

Clearly, Zerahemnah is a type of Satan in this chapter, and Captain Moroni is a type of Christ.

8 For behold, his designs were to stir up the Lamanites to anger against the Nephites; this he did that he might usurp great power over them, and also that he might gain power over the Nephites by bringing them into bondage.

He usurped great power over the Lamanites because they willingly followed him.

He was seeking to gain power over those that would not willingly follow him.

Wow, I thought. This war is reinacting the war in heaven! As I read through chapters 43 and 44 I discovered some very amazing things, most of which I have not been able to decipher.

The reason I put this here is because of the "Anti-Nephi-Lehis" that are mentioned in these chapters.

The Anti-Nephi-Lehi's were the people of Ammon, and they buried their weapons of war and made a covenant not to take up their weapons any more. They made a covenant of peace, and were willing to abide by that covenant or die.

Seeing now that this had a pre-mortal existence equivalent, my mind was drawn to this verse:

Abraham 3:

22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;

23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

I believe these noble and great ones had made certain covenants with God, akin to the covenants we make here, and akin to the covenants some will make in the post-mortal world before the resurrection. They are the ones who will take advantage of temple work.

It stands to reason that if it is possible to make these covenants in stages 2 and 3 of our existence, then it could be possible to make them during the 1st stage. I believe those that did so were the "noble and great ones," spoken of in Alma 43 and 44 as the "Anti-Nephi-Lehi's," the group that made certain covenants not to get involved in the war.

I believe the "these" Christ speaks of here is most of us. There were 3 sides, 1: those that did not want mortality, but wanted a more sure way, and they chose Lucifer's plan; 2: those that wanted to take a body and come to earth; 3: Those that were "born again" or made those covenants in the pre-mortal life and all they needed was a body.

Some of them were chosen to come to earth and balance Satan's cause among men, and were foreordained to be prophets, seers, and revelators. The rest only needed to gain a body. They already made their choice and did not need to be tested further.

If you look through Alma 43 and 44 you will see some amazing teachings of the pre-mortal existence. I haven't unlocked the meanings of most of the words, but a few were more obvious than others.

More later... getting very tired.

[JudoMinja]

I read or saw something somewhere (I can't remember where so I can't say whether or not it is doctrine) that said the mentally disabled and/or handicapped are the spirits who escorted Satan and his followers out of heaven. Their handicap is a protection, because if they had the full ability of understanding that "normal" people have, Satan would bombard them so hard they would not be able to overcome his temptations in order to get revenge.

I believe this is true for many of these wonderful people. Some, I think, are given their handicap simply to help them learn and grow, and help those around them learn and grow. Everyone is given the challenges that will most help them reach the Lord. It sometimes seems unfair to our mortal, limited eyes, but He sees all, and the different circumstances everyone lives with are in place in a most fair way to give them the greatest advantage in returning to Him.

We are here to 1. receive a body and 2. prove ourselves worthy of returning to His presense. Some of these handicapped are incapable of completeing number two because they were SO faithful in the pre-existence that they don't need to and as Justice said, need only obtain a body. The same goes for those who die before the age of accountability. They did not need to do anything but recieve a body. Others are given their handicaps as an obstacle that, if they choose to be teachable, will permit the growth they need to become perfected spirits.

[zippy_do46]

Ok I could not read the rest until I said something so forgive me if I repeat. I do not understand. I just can not believe these "little ones" in mind have no chance. They can not reach the age of accountability.

Are they not like a little child? Would we hold a 2 year old accountable?

When we had a mental and phyical challenged child in our Primary I told these children that B was a valient saint. This is what I was told. This stresses me. What would be the use of having our body if we could not progress because we have no communication skills or our minds are that of a child?

[FairChild]

I believe that people that have mental challenges such as retardation or autism choose to live with their handicap and it is Heavenly Father's way of allowing a precious spirit to gain a body all the while protecting them from Satan's onslought so they could have the chance to reagain Heavenly Father's presence once more.

[Vanhin]

If the mental handicap makes these individuals un-accountable for their actions, they are saved in the Celestial kingdom of God, like little children who die before the age of accountability.

The most important reason for us being here on this earth is to gain bodies for ourselves. If we have been born into mortality we will receive immortal resurrected bodies one day. The fact that we kept our first estate ensures us of that. In other words, we already did our part to "earn" that because of our valiance in the pre-mortal world - through the resurrection of Christ of course.

Most, but not all, are also here to learn by their own experience the difference between good and evil. However, some simply come to gain bodies, and to bless our lives with their presence. These would be little children who die before the age of accountability and others who are not accountable because of mental disability. It makes senses to me then, that these individuals have already been tested and proven themselves valiant in the eternities prior. We have had our agency in various spheres long before this earth life. But we haven't had bodies of flesh until now.

Here's how Elder McConkie answered the question.

What about the mentally deficient?

It is with them as it is with little children. They never arrive at the years of accountability and are considered as though they were little children. If because of some physical deficiency, or for some other reason unknown to us, they never mature in the spiritual and moral sense, then they never become accountable for sins. They need no baptism; they are alive in Christ; and they will receive, inherit, and possess in eternity on the same basis as do all children.

After revealing that little children are redeemed from the foundation of the world through the atoning sacrifice of Him who died to save us all, and after specifying that Satan has no power to tempt little children until they begin to become accountable, the Lord applied the same principles to those who are mentally deficient: “And, again, I say unto you, that whoso having knowledge, have I not commanded to repent? And he that hath no understanding, it remaineth in me to do according as it is written.” (D&C 29:49–50.) LDS.org - Liahona Article - Salvation of Little Children

Check out the rest of the article by clicking the link above. It is excellent and comes with references.

Regards,

Vanhin

[yenni]

I did once hear a story of a young man who got his patriarichal blessing and in it stated he was given mental handicaps because he was one of the spirits to escort Satan out of Heaven, and the handicap, so to speak was actually a form of spiritual protection because his spirit was so close to Satan that he'd otherwise have a stronger influence on him.

At any rate some how I have a hard time believing anyone with a mental illness got it in the form as a punishment. Not to mention, if they were a supposed unvaliant soul, why would the be put into such a childlike state of mind here on earth, seems more like a gift to me Could be wrong, but hey. My Bishop gave some interesting insight that just maybe before we came to earth we may have had a hand in choosing the sort of difficulties and trials we go through. Just a thought.

[yenni]

I read or saw something somewhere (I can't remember where so I can't say whether or not it is doctrine) that said the mentally disabled and/or handicapped are the spirits who escorted Satan and his followers out of heaven. Their handicap is a protection, because if they had the full ability of understanding that "normal" people have, Satan would bombard them so hard they would not be able to overcome his temptations in order to get revenge.

I believe this is true for many of these wonderful people. Some, I think, are given their handicap simply to help them learn and grow, and help those around them learn and grow. Everyone is given the challenges that will most help them reach the Lord. It sometimes seems unfair to our mortal, limited eyes, but He sees all, and the different circumstances everyone lives with are in place in a most fair way to give them the greatest advantage in returning to Him.

We are here to 1. receive a body and 2. prove ourselves worthy of returning to His presense. Some of these handicapped are incapable of completeing number two because they were SO faithful in the pre-existence that they don't need to and as Justice said, need only obtain a body. The same goes for those who die before the age of accountability. They did not need to do anything but recieve a body. Others are given their handicaps as an obstacle that, if they choose to be teachable, will permit the growth they need to become perfected spirits.

Whoops should have read this before I posted ^^ but yeah, basically I read the same thing, and feel the same way.

[zippy_do46]

A very good article Vanhin, thanks. I have always been drawn to these "special saints" and our "little ones". There is just something there that I know is good. It makes me a better person when I am in the service of them that need me. Hope that makes sense.

[Traveler]

Some notes on handicaps. While I was attending college (BYU) it was my goal to become a teacher. At the time teachers could declare a specialty – I desired to specialize in what are called “exceptional” learners or if you will genus. What I found interesting is that I was the only person in the educational department at that time to declare that specialty. There were literally hundreds that declared a specialty of “special” learners or what is often called the mentally handicapped. I do not want or intend in any way to take away from the needs of the mentally handicapped but I have often wondered why there is so much emphases on handicaps and almost no emphases on exceptional abilities. In fact there is in society almost hostility towards exceptional learners.

There are many negative connotations towards exceptional learners with such slurs as nerds or eggheads. Often exceptional learners lack social skills and are ridiculed. I encountered during my efforts to become a teacher, studies that well over 50 percent of the genus in the USA is never recognized or utilized. It is also interesting to me that I was washed out of the education department for failure to pass remedial spelling – so I became an engineer. This is most interesting to me because I discovered later that I am dyslectic and will never be able to learn to spell to above very remedial levels. What is interesting that the disadvantage my dyslexia gives me in spelling gave me great advantages in engineering.

I have often pondered that what many judge as deficient or someone that is not as “smart” as the average in the herd is in truth a more “gifted” and has more to offer. In fact I have come to believe that everyone has a genus of one sort or another – but in our rush fit in we overlook even our own genus.

The Traveler

[Hemidakota]

Or are some this way so that we can learn to be more understanding of others who are a little different than we are. Do we walk the other way when we see them? Do we give them a smile and try to be friendly?

Personally I think it is more of a test for us than for them.

Ben Raines

Excellent post Ben!

When I see a special spirit – handicap from birth person walking the halls of the church - I would stop and greet them and treat them as they are before our FATHER - a special spirit.

[Traveler]

Excellent post Ben!

When I see a special spirit – handicap from birth person walking the halls of the church - I would stop and greet them and treat them as they are before our FATHER - a special spirit.

Why shouldn't everybody be treated in this same manner?

The Traveler

[Vort]

Why are some people on this earth mentally handicapped? I was in a gas station last night. A van pulled up and let some mentally handicapped people out to get drinks.

Are these people this way because they were so righteous in the pre-life that Father made them this way so they would not have to experience all the horrors and sadness of this life? Are some of them made that way because they were great warriors during the war in the pre-life and received wounds so bad that they carried over to this life?

More likely they were dropped on their head in infancy or inherited a genetic disease from their parents.

There are all sorts of reasons people are mentally challenged. Looking for divine reasons for their handicap based on premortal life is futile and potentially very harmful. Should we then never try to help these people achieve a level of "normalcy" of mental acuity? After all, what a horrible disservice we would be doing them to deprive them of their exalted, special state of mental retardation!

Poppycock. Some people are mentally retarded because we live in an imperfect world with lots of injuries and diseases. We should treat them just as we should treat anyone else, with perhaps more leeway give their limitations, and continue to try to find ways to bless them to overcome those limitations, just as we wish help in overcoming our own.

(Plus, whenever anyone talks about someone being "a general in the preexistence" or "escorting Satan and his angels from heaven" or "suffering from a grievous wound received in the war in heaven", I cringe as my BS-o-meter gets pegged to the max reading.)

[Elphaba]

Yes! I do believe the same as President Lee with the lesser spirits, which were many in my opinion, that were given bodies but handicapped [due] to . . . and parents. I used the term handicapped in not the usual literal term but where the lesser valiant spirits were rewarded in coming to earth.

What do you mean by "parents"? Are those who ended up with abusive parents the less valiant? Or is it the billions of parents who are not LDS? Or . . . what?

Elphaba

[pam]

Now Elphie..are you going to have someone explain what they meant by a comment they made over a year ago? lol I couldn't tell you what I meant by comments I made yesterday.

[Elphaba]

Now Elphie..are you going to have someone explain what they meant by a comment they made over a year ago?

Oh. Well, I'm due a big DUH for that one!

Elph

[Vort]

If the mental handicap makes these individuals un-accountable for their actions, they are saved in the Celestial kingdom of God, like little children who die before the age of accountability.

The most important reason for us being here on this earth is to gain bodies for ourselves. If we have been born into mortality we will receive immortal resurrected bodies one day. The fact that we kept our first estate ensures us of that. In other words, we already did our part to "earn" that because of our valiance in the pre-mortal world - through the resurrection of Christ of course.

Most, but not all, are also here to learn by their own experience the difference between good and evil. However, some simply come to gain bodies, and to bless our lives with their presence. These would be little children who die before the age of accountability and others who are not accountable because of mental disability. It makes senses to me then, that these individuals have already been tested and proven themselves valiant in the eternities prior. We have had our agency in various spheres long before this earth life. But we haven't had bodies of flesh until now.

Here's how Elder McConkie answered the question.

What about the mentally deficient?

It is with them as it is with little children. They never arrive at the years of accountability and are considered as though they were little children. If because of some physical deficiency, or for some other reason unknown to us, they never mature in the spiritual and moral sense, then they never become accountable for sins. They need no baptism; they are alive in Christ; and they will receive, inherit, and possess in eternity on the same basis as do all children.

After revealing that little children are redeemed from the foundation of the world through the atoning sacrifice of Him who died to save us all, and after specifying that Satan has no power to tempt little children until they begin to become accountable, the Lord applied the same principles to those who are mentally deficient: “And, again, I say unto you, that whoso having knowledge, have I not commanded to repent? And he that hath no understanding, it remaineth in me to do according as it is written.” (D&C 29:49–50.) LDS.org - Liahona Article - Salvation of Little Children

Check out the rest of the article by clicking the link above. It is excellent and comes with references.

Regards,

Vanhin

I don't understand, Vanhin. President Lee, a prophet of Jesus Christ, stated that "undoubtedly" many of the less valiant premortally were born into handicapped bodies (or races). What happened to your deference to the teachings of the prophets that you so courageously exhibited when speaking of whether revelation teaches that Jesus was born "on April 6" (whatever that means, which you cannot or will not answer)? Does that only apply when you happen to agree with the specific prophetic teaching?

[Vanhin]

I don't understand, Vanhin. President Lee, a prophet of Jesus Christ, stated that "undoubtedly" many of the less valiant premortally were born into handicapped bodies (or races). What happened to your deference to the teachings of the prophets that you so courageously exhibited when speaking of whether revelation teaches that Jesus was born "on April 6" (whatever that means, which you cannot or will not answer)? Does that only apply when you happen to agree with the specific prophetic teaching?

It appears you are still responding to a "claim" that I did not make. If you think I haven't answered something to your satisfaction, just reply on the other thread. I'll be happy to engage you on that topic some more.

Kind Regards,

Vanhin

Edited December 21, 2009 by Vanhin

[Vort]

It appears you are still responding to a "claim" that I did not make. If you think I haven't answered something to your satisfaction, just reply on the other thread. I'll be happy to engage you on that topic some more.

I'm just fascinated by this. Here we have Vanhin claiming one thing and a prophet of God claiming another. Hmmmm. Whom to believe?

[Hemidakota]

Why shouldn't everybody be treated in this same manner?

The Traveler

What is unconditional divine love and do you know this Spirit past?

[Vort]

What is unconditional divine love

A commonly held fallacy.

and do you know this Spirit past?

There appears to be some words missing from this. But in any case, Traveler's point remains: If we should treat retarded people with special respect, should not we treat everyone else that way, too?