How to get the spark back?

[hordak]

I feel weird posting this on a public forum but i have come to the realization i don't have any friends to talk to about it.They are either single or aren't friends of Hordak but friends of Mr AND Mrs Hordak. I would talk with family about it but i don't want it to affect their opinion of my wife.

After 5 years of wedded bliss my wife comes to me and tells me she is no longer in love with me.She still loves me but isn't IN love with me and that she thinks we shouldn't be together.She say we could still be friends,I have heard that exprestion with highschool relationships but it has never hurt so much as it has now.

It was like being thrown from a moving bus.I always thought we were the perfect couple.The biggest "arguments" we have had are who's going to change that dirty diaper and where should we go for dinner. We have been through so many challenges together, 2 children conceived on birth control in our 1st 2 years of marriage, buying then selling a house as the market started to go bad, 5 moves 2 of which were all the way across the country,the death of my mother and the death of her great grandmother,her dead beat dad coming back into her life, and 8 surgeries. I feel that if we can weather all that in 5 years we can get through anything.

It really came as such a shock.2 Months ago i had a surgery to regain my reproductive powers because she want's to have more kids. I think a big part of the problem lays with her.(Of course you would expect me to say that) but it seems she doesn't know what she wants. After our second child was born she asked me to get "fixed". I told her it was to early, chossing to not have anymore kids at 21 seemed a little premature but eventually i folded and got the surgery.A year latter she was hounding me to get the reversal. She tells me how she wants more kids then complains about how we don't have any us time because of the kids we have.She talks about how she loves being a mother then ignores them while she gets ready to go out to the club with her friends.Or gets a disappointed look when her friends text her and ask her to go out but she promised some family time and has to stay home.We don't have the money to take the kids to the museum but we have the money for her to get a new outfit for the club.Sometimes i think she is selfish.

She works hard and deserves a break,life out side the house but she spends more quality time with her friends then her family.It wasn't always like this.

She talked to a shrink and they came to the conclusion she doesn't respect me.She tells me how she gets tired of defending my career as a at home father to her mother and co workers but she is fine with me doing it.She is the one who suggested i do it from day one.She tells me i don't have enough follow through,and uses the fact that i have looked into collage and not started as an example but she was the one who said "i don't care if you stay at home forever, you will still have homework and PTA meetings to keep you busy.Plus we have at least 6 more year before the next child would be old enough to start school"

To me racking up $10,000 in loans over the next 2 years for a degree i won't use for at least 5 doesn't seem like smart financial planing.

I have convinced her to try marriage counseling but she isn't optimistic.and I'm am trying my hardest to follow through with my plans.

I have decided to go back to school.1 because i could use the challenge and change( i sure the at home mothers understand) 2 because i think she has a point. Although she has been been sending me mixed signals for the last few years i haven't done anything for me since before i was a father need to be able to define myself as something other then a father. 3 If it doesn't work out I won't have to live out of a car for longer the 2 years.

Does a women who doesn't know what she wants and a man she doesn't respect who has lost his drive have a chance to reconnect.?

So do i leave her alone til she finds herself then try to reignite the spark? Do I try to reignite the spark while she finds herself and hope she becomes the old her?

How do i reignite the spark? Do we work on ourselves individually first then the relationship?Will she stay long enough for us to "fix" ourselves and still have the desire and/or energy to fix us or will she give up and blindside me again.?

This is what goes through my head,and of course the major divorce issues i don't want to think about.

I think the thing that ticks me off/ saddens me the most is the timing. I'm reminded of elder Ukdorfs plane around the world story. If she had told me the problems while we were a few degrees off we could have fixed it relatively easily. And if we had continued to try and we couldn't fix it we could part ways.Instead she just let it fly off course and didn't say a word.We have so much more ground to cover.

Anyone been though something similar who can offer advice?

[BenRaines]

Let me understand this. You and your wife have been married for five years and she is going out Clubbing with her girlfriends. Clubbing is a singles activity. Have you ever gone out and seen what goes on in these clubs? Maybe married couples might go but a married woman going with her girlfriends or co-workers. This is just asking for trouble.

She is married, a wife, a mother, time for her to decide that family is where it is at not out dancing and drinking with friends while husband is at home.

Ben Raines

[a-train]

First, she is just hormonal.

Second, go out with her.

Third, get off the internet when she is around.

-a-train

[bytor2112]

When your wife goes "clubbing" with the girls and tells you she isn't in love with you anymore........ that is not good. If I were in your shoes and reading between the lines, I would be thinking that she is enjoying the attention she is surely getting from other men at these "clubs". She might be longing for the single life and may ultimately act on it. Marriage is a partnership.......you need to find a way to togetherness and get her to stop the clubing before something very damaging occurs. Take a cruise together, do something out of the norm.....start a hobby that you can do together. Start working out and get a tan.......take her to Salsa lessons. She is looking for excitement....but night clubs aren't the solution...if she is bored with the "married" version of Hordak, the clubs with or without you will just reminder her of that.

My wife went through this with me.......the solution for me was Heavenly Father and activity in church. My heart was softened and I stopped wanting the world and the attentions of other women and full recognized the blessings of my beautiful family. We are now sealed and happier and more content than ever before. The gospel really is the cure all........

[Gwen]

First, she is just hormonal.

Second, go out with her.

Third, get off the internet when she is around.

-a-train

First, dismissing someones feeling or behavior on hormones is immature and no way to have a solid relationship of any kind.

Second, you don't know all the circumstances to her going out. has she asked? has he asked? is she open to it or running away? what are they going to do with the kids?

Third, again you don't know he's on the internet when she is around. if he is a stay at home dad then she would be at work right now. stay at home parents need "outside" interaction too. sometimes the internet is the only way to do that and take care of the kids. as well as sometimes it's the only place one can ask questions and get advice they can't ask the ppl in their lives (which he already pointed out).

to the op, i would suggest you use the search function and search some of the advise given to others that are having marriage trouble. you will need access to the open forums for some of them if you don't have that. there is a lot of information that has already been posted to others that may be very helpful.

here are a couple...

http://www.lds.net/forums/book-club/14740-five-love-languages-chapman.html

http://www.lds.net/forums/adult-advice/14528-intimacy-marriage.html

i would suggest maybe looking into this book His Needs, Her Needs has a lot of good information (outside of concern for an affair), you can shop around for the best price.

Edited October 10, 2008 by Gwen

[hordak]

Let me understand this. You and your wife have been married for five years and she is going out Clubbing with her girlfriends. Clubbing is a singles activity. Have you ever gone out and seen what goes on in these clubs? Maybe married couples might go but a married woman going with her girlfriends or co-workers. This is just asking for trouble.

She is married, a wife, a mother, time for her to decide that family is where it is at not out dancing and drinking with friends while husband is at home.

Ben Raines

Personally i agree.Unfortunately the Shrink doesn't.She thinks important for her to have a sense of self.And while i agree i wish she would find a better way.

[a-train]

First, dismissing someones feeling or behavior on hormones is immature and no way to have a solid relationship of any kind.

Men are constantly shocked when their wives seem indecisive, snappy, and suddenly confusing. We allow ourselves to get dragged into pointless arguments and messy confrontations between testosterone and hormones rather than between us and our wives. In the end, both we and our wives feel worse about the whole situation. Men need to simply understand that she doesn't mean it when she calls us an "idiot". She doesn't mean it when she says she thinks she is no longer in love. Simply show her love and respect and she'll get through it as will we.

Second, you don't know all the circumstances to her going out. has she asked? has he asked? is she open to it or running away? what are they going to do with the kids?

These logistics don't make the necessity of dating go away.

Third, again you don't know he's on the internet when she is around.

No I don't, would you suggest men stay on the internet while their wives are around? Or would you agree with my advice?

-a-train

[Gwen]

First, she is just hormonal.

Second, go out with her.

Third, get off the internet when she is around.

-a-train

Men are constantly shocked when their wives seem indecisive, snappy, and suddenly confusing. We allow ourselves to get dragged into pointless arguments and messy confrontations between testosterone and hormones rather than between us and our wives. In the end, both we and our wives feel worse about the whole situation. Men need to simply understand that she doesn't mean it when she calls us an "idiot". She doesn't mean it when she says she thinks she is no longer in love. Simply show her love and respect and she'll get through it as will we.

These logistics don't make the necessity of dating go away.

No I don't, would you suggest men stay on the internet while their wives are around? Or would you agree with my advice?

-a-train

lol ok so maybe it's how men and women hear things or the need of a man to use as few words as possible but i don't think those two posts say the same thing. lol

i can almost agree with the second post....... i would be more agreeable to this.....

first, having babies does a number on her hormones. have you considered issues there? sometimes things get blown way over the top due to it. hormones don't invalidate her feelings or concerns but may explain how they are expressed.

second, her going out may be expressing a need to be social again. have the two of you been dating? though the logistics may be difficult you both need to get out and socialize with each other.

third, though the internet may be helpful in find advise or having "outside" contact from just the kids. i would caution you to not over do it and make sure you are there for her when she is home or it will just push her further away. the same is true for any other activities that keep you apart when she is home (tv, hobbies, etc)

yes a-train i give you permission to say i'm splitting hairs and blame it on me being a hormonal woman i need to remember hordak is a stay at home dad, not a stay at home mom. though i can relate somewhat, he's sill a guy.

sorry for the digression hordak.

[Guest ceeboo]

Let me understand this. You and your wife have been married for five years and she is going out Clubbing with her girlfriends. Clubbing is a singles activity. Have you ever gone out and seen what goes on in these clubs? Maybe married couples might go but a married woman going with her girlfriends or co-workers. This is just asking for trouble.

She is married, a wife, a mother, time for her to decide that family is where it is at not out dancing and drinking with friends while husband is at home.

Ben Raines

Hello Ben,

ABSOBATOOOOTLY, Cound not have said it better :):)

This, IMHO, Is indeed a HUGE problem in our society today:(

Peace

Ceeboo

[JustMiss]

This is not an easy situation. But I do remember the day I told my husband I was not in love with him. I remember telling him that I loved him but wasn't in love with him. I truly meant it. I felt almost dead inside. It was a very hopeless feeling and it was the hardest thing I had to tell him. I even told him that I felt trapped. Not that I wanted to go out or anything like that. I felt trapped as a mother and wife and constantly having so many demands put on me. I felt he was very unappreciated of anything that was done and I felt that nothing I did or the kids did were ever good enough. He was working a lot and so was I and going to school. He was snappy with the kids and I just hated being in the same room with him. I became very matter of fact about it actually. I think that was defense to try and shield myself. But I was not ready to give up on my marriage. He moved to a separate room. I enjoyed my space. We avoided each other and nothing was getting fixed. We had pushed each other to such extremes in our marriage that we literally had to start over. I held on for years trying to make our marriage work as he just got worse and worse. I finally just became closed off. Then he realized what the years has cost us and about to cost him. He began praying for our marriage. I did not. At that point I had the attitude, "if it works it works, if it don't I gave it my all".... and I believed that because I had loved him through some very awful years. The down talking the begrading. It took him probably almost a year or so of watching him change. He was open when we discussed things. He more importantly listened and heard me o ut. He had more patience with the kids. But I still stayed closed off. He would get upset and feel if I just lowered my wall and let him in everything would be ok. But the problem was, I had no feelings for him besides a dim light of hope. He was my friend and the father of my girls. I know this don't seem like a very hopeful post. But finally I was humbled and I realized that I couldn't fix my marriage and that my husband couldn't fix our marriage. My husband had been praying and we finally started praying as a family, then again together. Finally I just had to ask the Lord to help me forgive. That was the barrier. I told him I forgived him of things but there was still a wedge. THEN I had to ask the Lord to help me see my husband through His eyes. To help have Christ's love for my husband dwelling in me. I wanted to be able to talk with my husband and be convicted of things and have my tongue held of things and have that forgiving heart. Then I invited the Lord into our marriage. I had to complete surrender myself to God and let him put me and my husband and our marriage together. AND he did. This month we will be married 15 years. God is powerful and loving and faithful and will help if you ask him and allow him. I had to give into the fact that asking God for help then trying to fix it myself wasn't working. I had to ask him for help and allow him to help.

[BenRaines]

It was a problem in our church in the area of Las Vegas. Younger married guys were going out having their "gambling night" then on another night the wives were going out and having their "clubbing night".

You want to see what it is like at those clubs there are numerous websites that show how people dress and dance at those places.

For married people unless they are going with each other and dancing with each other then clubbing should not be for them.

If there is anything virtuous, lovely,of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Ben Raines

[Misshalfway]

It is really hard to know the source of the problems poor Hordak here is going thru. Is his wife dealing with some kind of post pregnancy hormones? (I am not aware of many women who haven't been surprised by these changes that often come after pregnancy....and she sounds young and perhaps a bit unaware of her chemistry) OR, is she immature and not yet ready to fully embrace the responsibility and devotion that her choices now require of her.

It does sound as if she is very self absorbed. Perhaps she may see valid weaknesses in you, Hordak, I couldn't possible know if her assessments are honest or just part of her need to discredit you. But, I do know that when we see weakness in our partners, there are definitely ways to support and encourage as we apply patience and understanding and love to our problem solving efforts. It doesn't appear that she has developed such capability yet.

What it sounds like is that she is young. And she started a marriage and a family before she was ready. I wonder if she is still looking to everyone and everything else to MAKE her happy, instead of applying the principles of happiness to her choices and her thinking. Maybe she thought marriage would do it. And when it didn't, maybe she thought a baby would. And when that didn't work, she stopped the baby process, but then reopened it when she was "needing" something again. I can't really know.....just supposing out loud.

I do think that some kind of third party intervention is the only way to get an objective and accurate opinion about what is really going on here, and then an effective strategy. I do think that this problem is a lot deeper and more wide spread than just needing to re-ignite the 'spark'.

Hordak, my heart goes out to you. I have struggled in my own marriage relationship. I know what it is like to get hit by the bus, and to be the one making my spouse feel the same. I don't suppose any of us is immune these days. Satan does seem h*** bent on breaking up any marriage he can, using any wedge he can get his hands on. My best wishes to you. I know there is hope. There are wonderful therapists and the gospel and the Savior really can re-establish love between any two willing people. Me and my sweetie are proof!

Edited October 10, 2008 by Misshalfway

[checkerboy]

Hordak my experience is somewhat similar to yours. My wife "fell" out of love with me too. Now we are divorced. If you want the specifics and what I did and didn't do, drop me a line and we can chat.

[Guest ceeboo]

You want to see what it is like at those clubs there are numerous websites that show how people dress and dance at those places.

For married people unless they are going with each other and dancing with each other then clubbing should not be for them.

Ben Raines

Looks like it might be my " BenRaines day ":) AGAIN, I could not agree more.:)

IMHO, There is NOTHING that " clubbing without your spouse " can possibly do the strengthen, solidify, grow, nurture, or protect the very union that it should treasure in our society.

I would also suggest that " clubbing solo " indeed has the exact opposite effect on the thing we should be openly displaying the most respect and value to. ( eachother ).

This act can and often does lead to hurt, anger, sadness, mistrust, wonder, pain, and can only weaken the very foundation of marriage. Not to mention the examples of behavior we set for our children, Who BTW learn by example.

God bless,

Carl

[hordak]

lol ok so maybe it's how men and women hear things or the need of a man to use as few words as possible but i don't think those two posts say the same thing. lol

i can almost agree with the second post....... i would be more agreeable to this.....

first, having babies does a number on her hormones. have you considered issues there? sometimes things get blown way over the top due to it. hormones don't invalidate her feelings or concerns but may explain how they are expressed.

She's not pregnant. She wants to have more kids but isn't hormonal

second, her going out may be expressing a need to be social again. have the two of you been dating? though the logistics may be difficult you both need to get out and socialize with each other.

No, we get out together about once or twice a year without the kids.I know we need it.Need to find a way to get it back and keep it alive with the kids around.Since they are around 99.9% of the time

third, though the internet may be helpful in find advise or having "outside" contact from just the kids. i would caution you to not over do it and make sure you are there for her when she is home or it will just push her further away. the same is true for any other activities that keep you apart when she is home (tv, hobbies, etc)

No problems there.

yes a-train i give you permission to say i'm splitting hairs and blame it on me being a hormonal woman i need to remember hordak is a stay at home dad, not a stay at home mom. though i can relate somewhat, he's sill a guy.

sorry for the digression hordak.

accepted

[Hemidakota]

Hordak, I have some questions. If I am reading this correctly, you have two children? What are the ages and gender? Are you both endowed and temple sealed? Are you both active in the church and have callings? What does your wife do for a living and what is your undergrad major?

[hordak]

It is really hard to know the source of the problems poor Hordak here is going thru. Is his wife dealing with some kind of post pregnancy hormones? (I am not aware of many women who haven't been surprised by these changes that often come after pregnancy....and she sounds young and perhaps a bit unaware of her chemistry) OR, is she immature and not yet ready to fully embrace the responsibility and devotion that her choices now require of her.

It does sound as if she is very self absorbed. Perhaps she may see valid weaknesses in you, Hordak, I couldn't possible know if her assessments are honest or just part of her need to discredit you. But, I do know that when we see weakness in our partners, there are definitely ways to support and encourage as we apply patience and understanding and love to our problem solving efforts. It doesn't appear that she has developed such capability yet.

What it sounds like is that she is young. And she started a marriage and a family before she was ready. I wonder if she is still looking to everyone and everything else to MAKE her happy, instead of applying the principles of happiness to her choices and her thinking. Maybe she thought marriage would do it. And when it didn't, maybe she thought a baby would. And when that didn't work, she stopped the baby process, but then reopened it when she was "needing" something again. I can't really know.....just supposing out loud.

I do think that some kind of third party intervention is the only way to get an objective and accurate opinion about what is really going on here, and then an effective strategy. I do think that this problem is a lot deeper and more wide spread than just needing to re-ignite the 'spark'.

Hordak, my heart goes out to you. I have struggled in my own marriage relationship. I know what it is like to get hit by the bus, and to be the one making my spouse feel the same. I don't suppose any of us is immune these days. Satan does seem h*** bent on breaking up any marriage he can, using any wedge he can get his hands on. My best wishes to you. I know there is hope. There are wonderful therapists and the gospel and the Savior really can re-establish love between any two willing people. Me and my sweetie are proof!

She's not pregnant and our youngest is 3 so it isn't hormones.I do think the family was started too soon but we did everything(well almost) everything to prevent it from happening.We were that . 1% twice. I guess we are "young" but i certainly don't feel like it.Becoming a father completely changed my life.I learned what was really important.I discovered that a Saturday morning and the floor with blocks and a 2 year old beats a Friday night out at the club hands down. She used to be there with me.On the same page.

[hordak]

Hordak, I have some questions. If I am reading this correctly, you have two children? What are the ages and gender? Are you both endowed and temple sealed? Are you both active in the church and have callings? What does your wife do for a living and what is your undergrad major?

2 kids. 1 of each 3 and 4 years old. Not temple endowed. Half active in the church. I introduced it to her so she could meet some friends with different hobbies/standards but it's hard for her being a working mom.The ladies get together for lunches while shes at work.Allot of the activities are geared to being a mommy and it's not really her role.(work wise) Plus her job, being in the military is completely opposite from the church.Don't get me wrong there are good people in the service but things are very different.I will be going for Respiratory Therapy provided i get in.It's a small school.I will graduate in 27 months, 8 months after her enlistment is over.The plan is to get out but i don't know if it can/will last that long.

[Tough Grits]

Personally, I do not believe in perfect marriages.

My husband and I have a very strong marriage, but we have to work really hard at it.

I am a woman. I understand that I DO get hormonal. It does not embarrass me or upset me. My husband knows that every month he is going to get a call on his cell phone from me, and he is told to go by the store and pick up a 12-pack of coke on his way home.

He knows what that means. It means that he and the children had better be on their P's and and Q's.

At any rate, that one week a month does not define me. I am a strong woman who works, goes to college, does the yard work, all the finances and bills, reads to my children, helps them with homework, washes the laundry, organizes Family Home Evening, says prayers with the children, and reads scriptures with the children.

I am not a weenie by any means, but sometimes I think that might be the source of the occasional hiccups that my husband and I may have.

Has society trained me to think of "man" as the stronger one, the one who should bear most of the burdens in the family?

The fact of the matter is that my husband has wonderful talents and skills, but he cannot do things in a timely manner, or do most things at all unless I tell him to do them. I don't have the time or energy to go behind my husband and keep reminding him of what I want him to do. So I do it.

His only job in the house is the dishes. And even when the sink is over-flowing, I have to tell him to do them.

*SIGH*

Most of the time this does not bother me. But I have learned that when it does bother me, oh boy. He and I have had many talks about this. I DO get frustrated, but I am not sure if it is with him, or with this stupid ideal I have in my head of who and what he "should" be as a man, husband, and father.

I am sure I am not his ideal either, even if I do everything and he wants or worries for nothing. I do not have grace or eloquence, I do not speak with the ever soft, lilting voice of an angel (give me a break, my father was a loud Cuban...I will never speak in soft tones), and I am not this radiant, charming little wife who is always the gentle breeze and brightest ray. Whatever. I am so not the stuff of fluffy poetry.

So, my point is, do we damage ourselves be trying to expect our spouses to live up to unrealistic ideals?

I have to remind myself every day to accept my husband for who he is, not who I wish for him to be, and I pray that he is doing the same towards me...that he is reminding himself every day to accept me for who I am, and not who he wishes for me to be.

Most of the time our marriage is smooth sailing, because we like each other and we are good friends. We are compatible in other areas as well, but for privacy and modesty reasons I will not spell it out.

I have to remind myself that when I feel over-whelmed, that those are just my feelings, and they are not a result of anything my husband has done TO ME. But for some reason, when I get overwhelmed that is when I begin to critically assess what he is and is not doing around the house and in our relationship. That is MY issue, not his. Poor guy has no idea that I am even starting to get overwhelmed or that I am thinking negative about him.

So, I have to re-direct my thoughts before it explodes on him. I have to remind myself of all that he DOES do, all that I absolutely adore about him, all that we have been through, and how much I really do want to be with him throughout the eternities.

Most of the time I can pull myself out of it. Every once-in-awhile I can't and he and I have a "discussion".

I do know this: there are no perfect men or women, thus there are no perfect marriages. If I left Michael and went looking for the perfect man/husband/father...then I would die a lonely, old woman.

I know this. And maybe this one truth keeps me sane and keeps me balanced on those very rare moments when I do want to give up.

I am not sure this helped, but just wanted to give you one woman's perspective on her marriage that IS a good one...but not a perfect one.

Also, it is not a good sign when a woman goes out clubbing. Not a good sign at all.

When one spouse stays at home and the other spouse is the sole source of income, it is not good that the spouse who has been out in the world all day, then turns around and wants to be out in the world at night too.

Yes, her psychiatrist may have told her it was okay...but he is her doctor...not yours, not your family's.

Have you considered family counseling? The Church offers these services. They are real counselors with degrees, but they are also members of the Church and work for the Church, therefore they incorporate LDS standards into the counseling. Family counseling really sounds necessary at this point, regardless of whether the doctor is LDS or not.

I wish you the best.

Much Love,

Tough Grits

Edited October 10, 2008 by Tough Grits
because I am not perfect, and I made some typos...DUH

[countrygirl66]

hi hordak,

Sorry you are struggling so much. I had a couple of thoughts for what they are worth. I quit my day job about 13 years ago, prior to that I was working in the corporate world. It is was a very difficult time for me. There are so many men/women that I ran across that cheat on their wives/husbands. It starts with saying simple things like you work hard can't you meet us and such and such and have a little fun. Surely your husband doesn't expect you to never have any fun. If me and my h had an argument and I was upset it went something like this. You shouldn't have to be treated that way, noone should have to put up with that. If I was alone at lunch it would go something like this, You want to have lunch, your h will let you have friends that are guys won't he. Little by little they create contention in a marriage and can make you think you are missing out on something. I was lucky that I was able to say no to the traps laid all about, but I saw many who walked right into them. The reality is that life is difficult and I myself beleive that you don't go clubbing, unless you go together. You don't go to lunch with someone of the opposite sex unless there is more than two of you. It is a slippery slope and your wife may be confused about what she wants. She may be getting one kind of life at work and something else at home. See if she would be willing to lay down some ground rules. Also find a kind way to help her see what she could be giving up. She may not be seeing the value in what she has. I hope you can work things out. Good luck.

[RachelleDrew]

From what you've posted, it doesn't seem as though she had the maturity to get married or have children when she did. She doesn't seem interested in being a mother or a wife, and the way I see it she talks about having kids the way a 16 year old glamorizes having children and being a wife without really seeing the big picture, which explains the back and forth decision making. She has no idea what she wants.

However, even if that is true there is nothing that can be done about it now. She is married and a mother and regardless of if she was ready for it or not she has to step up to the plate and act like an adult.

Do yourself a favor and don't have anymore surgeries one way or the other until your marriage is back on track and she KNOWS what she wants. Maybe another guy here can clarify for me, but it doesn't seem like a healthy thing to have that many procedures done to your reproductive system.

I think you need to have a frank conversation with her one on one without children around. Ask her if she thinks there is any hope for you two, if there is anything you can do to help re-direct your relationship and if she still wants to be married to you anymore, period. It may hurt to hear the answer, but I think you really need to find out for certain without her beating around the bush and leading you on.

On another note, there is an equal amount of chance that she DOES want to remain married to you, but just feels too far gone or too overwhelmed etc and feels that giving up would be easier. If that is the case, then counseling may help you guys out.

However, she's got to meet you halfway here, if she does think that there is even a remote chance of reconciliation and wants to try then she has got to put in the work too, not just you. If you are the only one trying to save your marriage then nothing will get accomplished.

From the looks of this message (and it could be a completely different situation than what you are telling us, so this is pure speculation) you seem to be trying very hard and doing everything that you can. Keep in mind, that if it's simply maturity that she lacks then you aren't doing anything wrong and that there IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU. I'm sure that your self-esteem is taking a beating here, and making you feel like you are somehow a bad husband otherwise your wife wouldn't do this. I've seen this done by women before, and oft times to a wonderful man. It may very well not be any specific thing that you are doing, so please don't beat yourself up about it.

Just concentrate on what you two can do TOGETHER to help your marriage instead of how you "should have, could have, would have" done something different.

I'm so sorry that you are going through this, it must be very painful. Just keep your head up and try to be the best man you can be, if not for her then at least for yourself.

PS- The nightclubbing has got to stop, even if worse comes to worse and your marriage doesn't work out. No kid needs to deal with their mother prancing around in glitter with her gal pals eyeing men and neglecting her responsibilities. Especially if their family is split apart on top of it all. You've gotta put your foot down on this. The rest of your post could be based from your personal perspective, but when it comes to the clubbing thing she is absolutely in the wrong no matter what position you view it from.

I hope things work out for you two. Take care of yourself.

[MorningStar]

Hordak, she is walking all over you! Put your foot down. You let her talk you into surgery TWICE??? I say whichever spouse is more insistent on no more children should be the one to undergo surgery. Geez, a vasectomy is not like flipping a light switch. Stand up to her. She is treating you like crap going out clubbing too. There are certain things married women shouldn't do and that's one of them, unless you are going dancing with her. Have you seen the way people dance these days?

Ugh!!!!!

I'd like to talk some sense into her. I don't care if she's depressed or whatever - she needs to grow up and stop taking important things so lightly. You can still be friends? What the heck? You're MARRIED. Having children is kind of a big deal too.

Stand your ground and don't let her get away with this nonsense, even if she threatens to leave. What brought on her, "Let's just be friends" silliness? Was she not getting her way with something?

Ok, I know you love your wife and sorry if I sounded too hard on her, but I don't think it's helping you or her when you let her get away with that.

Edited October 11, 2008 by MorningStar

[Islander]

Personally i agree.Unfortunately the Shrink doesn't.She thinks important for her to have a sense of self.And while i agree i wish she would find a better way.

I am quite sad to hear about your situation. it is unclear to me from Your original posting if you are a member of the church or not. It would help, at least me, to grasp the situation a bit better.

I suggest that your marriage has serious foundational issues and that the problems that you currently face are rather symptoms of those issues. It may be expensive, time consuming and quite a commitment to try and unravel these issues with appropriate help. You will never get anywhere with a secular counselor. After all, in today's society the well-being and emotional stability, fulfillment and contentment of "ME" is significantly more important than "US", the theory goes. You would be wasting your money and time there and I think you already been down that route.

I would not speculate about what the issues are. I would suggest, however, that you stop trying to "fix" your wife and trying the "make her see and understand" and try to get yourself together. You seemed to be stock in a pit of learned helplessness and despair that is very unhealthy. Your marriage is in serious peril and you are still thinking about having more children? YOU need help and much sooner than your wife. She seems to be doing whatever she wants to feel the way she wants. You, in the other hand, are drowning. I would seek APPROPRIATE help asap.

[lilered]

In my view JustMiss hit the issue square on the head. Hordaks bride not only has strong feelings, she has taken the next step by acting on them (clubbing etc. ). Assuming for a minute they have been married in the temple, then her actions are not in harmony with the covenants she made. If they haven't then at minimum her actions are not in harmony with LDS teachings. She is headed down a path that is heading to unhappiness. My recommendation be for Hordak to Fast and Pray intently for the Lords help and to hold tightly to the Iron Rod. Then seek counsel by talking privately to the Bishop about the marriage and her actions, professional marriage counseling certaintly may be the answer. She on the other hand may or may not be having hormonial issues but that is for a Doctor to determine. What we do know is that by her actions she definately starting to lead an abnormal life for a married woman living in a God centered family marriage from which only sorrow will be its reward. She must be the one to desire to repent and turn from this path.

Edited October 15, 2008 by lilered

[MrsHart]

Hordak, I am very sorry that you are going through this. I did not read all the responses from the other forumers, but I did read your postings in this thread, and here are the impressions that I get of your wife:

1. She's lonely. I know this sounds crazy, considering that she goes clubbing with her friends and such, but I think that she feels lonely within her marriage and family life. Perhaps not physically lonely, but emotionally lonely. You mentioned that you two go out alone only once or twice a year, which doesn't sound enough to me. Can you find someone to watch the kids while you go out on your dates, once a week? I understand that your children are part of the family, but you don't need to take them with you everywhere.

2. She goes out so much because while out, she feels that she is experiencing the fun that she feels no longer exists at home. Also, she could be depressed.

3. Maybe she wasn't ready to handle the responsibility that comes with having a family, and now feels the need to make up for "lost times."

4. She's bored. It's not an excuse, but it could be the reason.

Maybe your wife doesn't know how to talk to you about these things, and when she does talk to you, she is not giving you the whole story because she feels held back somehow.

Edited October 15, 2008 by MrsHart