Trying to be positive, failing...

[secretsister]

Now that my husband's mood is better and he's acting more normally, I'm trying very hard to be positive and forgiving. I've been going out of my way to do nice things for him and thank him for anything he does that is good. I suppose he may be trying to do the same. If he is, we are both failing miserably.

Two days ago, I worked hard at doing things around the house I know are important to him. I made bread and then, for dinner, made up a recipe with thick pork chops I stuffed with apple filling. I made baked sweet potatos and green beans, some of his favorites. His words: "Wow, I've never seen pork chops stuffed with anything. I like it that you made up your own recipe, the apples are great! But, the pork seems dry."

Last night, I grilled a steak, made sauteed onions and mushrooms, salad and pumpkin soup made from some we grew in our garden. I made two pumpkin pies too. It took me all day as I had to cut and scoop out the pumpkins, bake them, puree the cooked pumpkin, then make the pies. I used the left over to make the soup. Our pumpkins didn't do well this year, so I only had 5 very small pie pumpkins. He sat down to dinner and began eating the soup. I mentioned that it was made from our own pumkins. He literally dropped his spoon in the bowl, looked angry and said, "What?! You used the pumkins for this soup?" I had to explain that I made two pies and didn't have enough pumpkin left for another pie, so I made the soup. Then, he was ok with it. His next comment was, "The steak is tough." Later, he did say thank you for the dinner and told me it was good. I served the pie, which he said was "excellent, but there's an awful lot of whipped cream on it. It's too much."

Earlier in the week, he asked me to give him some variety in his lunch. Prior to that, he had asked me for PB&J every day and said he has had that for years and that is what he wants. Now, he said he would occasionally like a different kind of sandwhich. So, I made him a turkey sandwich on Tuesday. This morning, as we are eating breakfast, he said, "If you're going to give me a messy sandwich like the other day, can you put a napkin in my lunch?" I said I would and I think it's completely fine for him to ask that of me. Then, he said, "There was way too much meat on that sandwich. It isn't necessary to put that much on."

On one hand, I understand that you need to communicate your needs, wishes, etc. I also see that he doesn't say anything obviously mean like "This meal is lousy, when are you gonna learn to cook?" Why, then, do I feel so depressed? This morning, he also saw a piece of paper on the table and asked what it was. I said it was a recipe for Spicy Mac N Cheese. He said, "Yuck." After he left for work, I cried like a baby. I feel like I just can't please him. Even when he does something for me, it has a remark with it. He brings flowers. I thank him. He says, "They were only $3, don't expect them when we move the office and I don't drive by Aldi anymore."

I've tried talking to him about this in the past. He says I'm too sensative and he isn't saying anything wrong. I've made a huge effort to get tougher skin and it was working ok. I think his last mood swing where he told me I was completely useless, did me in. Now, all these little things he says to me are more hurtful than ever. I can't call it abusive, but I feel battered.

The counselor said I'm grieving the marriage I thought I was going to have and I have to accept what I do have. I don't want to!!! I WANT a celestial marriage. I WANT to be happy. I WANT to be best friends with my husband!

He's apparently just as unhappy. He says he loves me when he goes to work. He asks me how my day went. He gives me a hug and kiss when he gets home. None of it has feeling to it anymore. He's just doing through the motions and I can tell.

I'm praying like crazy for help. Sure wish I could see the plan...

Is this a man/ woman difference thing? Is this just how a normal marriage goes? Do I just need to get thick skin and stop being so whiny?

Thanks,

Secretsister

[Gwen]

i wish i had something to say that would actually be helpful. this might be a helpful set of cd's DeseretBook.com - For All Eternity it's nice to be able to listen to something together and not have to read... i've got my complaints about this guys method but over all it has been more help than hinder so.... cost benefit i guess it is worth it.

sounds like he is trying, just needs to learn the art of giving a compliment. personally backhanded compliments hurt more than if someone doesn't try to compliment at all. i don't think you need to have a thicker skin, backhanded compliments hurt. you might could try to focus on the good part of what he says if he is trying to learn a new habit of how to compliment..... i know easier said than done.

sorry i can't be of more help.

[applepansy]

I can't call it abusive, but I feel battered.

The counselor said I'm grieving the marriage I thought I was going to have and I have to accept what I do have. I don't want to!!! I WANT a celestial marriage. I WANT to be happy. I WANT to be best friends with my husband!

He's apparently just as unhappy. He says he loves me when he goes to work. He asks me how my day went. He gives me a hug and kiss when he gets home. None of it has feeling to it anymore. He's just doing through the motions and I can tell.

I'm praying like crazy for help. Sure wish I could see the plan...

Is this a man/ woman difference thing? Is this just how a normal marriage goes? Do I just need to get thick skin and stop being so whiny?

Thanks,

Secretsister

Dear SecretSister, You may not call this abuse but that's exactly what it is. He's continuing the verbal abuse by qualifying everything he says with a negative attaeched.

I'm surprised at this counselor. Abuse is Abuse. Are you mourning for your marriage? Of course you are. But that doesn't mean you should accept being treated disrespectfully. Statements like, "Thanks for fixing dinner BUT . . . ." aren't compliments and are actually statements aimed at making you feel more inadequate.

Think back to the people in your life who have made you feel loved and cared about. Did they qualify their appreciation for you or what you did? No, they accepted you and loved you for you. As our Heavenly Father loves us. Our spouses shouls love us like that too, or should be trying to.

Be specific in your prayers. What do you want? Be careful what you ask for. . . the Lord will answer your prayers. You can't change your husband. You can only change yourself. Pleasse do not pray that you can accept how he treats you.

I met a sister once who was married to a man with bipolar. She wanted a divorce. Her bishop asked her to pray that she could love her husband again. She did. Then she had to divorce someone she loved deeply. She said it made it all the harder. Divorce is a bad thing. . . even if its the right thing to do. But sometimes it is the right thing to do. With this sister is was the right thing because you husband refused to get help. His behavior was affecting their young children in negative ways, not to mentioin what it was doing to her.

This is not a man/woman difference. Not all men act like your husband is acting. He is ill and until he gets help this will continue. Eventually he's going to blow up again. That is part of the bipolar illness. People with bipolar cannot maintain "normal" behavior for very long. It sounds like your husband is making a rather poor try anyway.

You are in my prayers. Remember, Heavenly Father loves you and he loves your husband. He will grant you the righteous desires of your heart. Sometimes we have to act on our circumstances to open the door to change. Your situation is unique to you in many ways that no one outside your marriage can understand, except the Lord.

My concern is that you will continue to accept and blame yourself for your husband'a abusive behavior. This is part of battered-woman-syndrome. Please find a counselor who has experience with abusive relationships.

Be safe,

applepansy

P.S. If I'd gone to the trouble of making pumpkin pie from fresh pumpkin and then pumpkin soup too. Then my husband acted like you describe. Well, let me put it this way. . . if I've made something that my family didn't like. . .and they verbalized that. It went in the garbage no matter how much work I put into it. If its not good enough, then its not good enough to be eaten. End of story. I only had to do this once.

When I try a new recipe I ask hubby and kids to rank it .. . 0 to 10, 10 being the best they've ever tasted. Anything less than a 10, I never made again. Its not worth my time.

We have to value ourselves if we expect others to value us.

[FunkyTown]

It's not a man/woman thing to be critical. But... I'm still really concerned for you. I don't want to council letting a marriage go. I don't believe it and I certainly don't see both sides to this, but know that I worry for you and hope for nothing but the best.

[Hemidakota]

Try this out in proving his communication skills are lacking and to add, his gratitude needs some 'real' polishing. Purchase a tape record and take a morning or evening dinner recording both of your conversation and play it back to him. If he feels he needs to voice himself, tell him to come to the forum. Some of us would like to chat over his role model as a priesthood bearer. Yes! Stuff like this makes my face turn red.

[Maureen]

If your husband is bipolar I would not be surprised if his insensitivity is related to this condition. At some point if his attitude does not change you may have to threaten to leave him if he does not see a doctor regarding his bipolar condition.

[Guest tomk]

The one thing that stuck-out in my mind was your husband's ingratitude.

All that matters is your relationship with the Savior. Don't preach to your husband. Don't focus on what he is doing wrong, just what he is doing right. Some things can't wait - but you can choose to communicate with him lovingly even when correction is needed. Tell him the behavior that upsets you and why. If he loves you he will try to make the needed changes.

Your example, not your words, will be what means the most in the end.

I had a period of time where I was on fire regarding the Gospel. My wife was inactive at the time and had no such fire in her belly. I tried to encourage her and bear my testimony. Finally the Lord asked me to "be quiet" and let Him make the needed changes in my wife.

So I did.

A miracle has happened...and all without me saying ONE WORD to my wife. Last Sunday it was she who was asking ME if I wanted to go to church!! All without me saying ONE WORD. The Lord is able to do His own work. Be patient, prayerful, and act courageously on the counsel He gives you, including when to speak and when to be quiet. For me it has been a process of years.

[WANDERER]

Goodness. I don't think you're going to get that positive stuff from him...so enjoy the pie, enjoy making the pie...and enjoy eating it with lotsa cream ; )))) . I think you are going to have to put up a bit of a wall for yourself just for your own sanity. I'm wondering if communicating back to him what he said in the positives ...so you like the pie..that's great hon...you know a kind of rephrasing parroting response so that he can see what you do listen to and respond to...and what you ignore or discard. And you are going to have to ignore and discard it...cause how many times can you let it crush you. Subtle moulding/conditioning LOL. He doesn't know how to give a compliment without twisting it...so I guess teaching him a little. Giving compliments is supposed to feel good...because you make someone else feel good...so when you repeat the bit you liked smile big...maybe he'll learn to smile back sometime : )

I'm also wondering if going on a couples' gourmet cooking class would be something to do. These are fun...cause you don't have to clean up or do the preparation. I know some couples where the guy always cooks the meat part of the meal...it's a common problem where guys obsess about the perfect steak...hey...it's a male thing. I don't get the whole obsession on marinades..but whatever makes them happy.

I'm wondering if instituting the one night off a week...on Saturdays he shops and cooks and you assist : ). And to take him shopping for lunch fixings and dinners...choices and menu plans...this obsession about food needs direction into some positive channels.

Goodness..peanut butter and jelly sandwiches 365 days a year...I'm thinking here you may need to pack choices: cheese and crackers, sandwich, cakes, fruit...mixture of nuts and stuff and some chocolate...you know he's obsessive...at least there will be something he can eat. The other option is to pack the sandwich fixings in separate containers for him to put in the work fridge and then he can make the sandwich how he likes it. Ask...see what works out for him. I can just picture him now not being able to eat any of his lunch because he didn't have cutlery packed for him ROTFL...he's so helpless isn't he. What makes him that way? Why can't he just pull some of the turkey off his sandwich?

It's actually very normal for people to bring in masses of lunch fixings at the beginning of the week including some instant meals or for the microwave and cheese and crachers and stuff so people don't get into lunch rut. I have about 8 different selections of herbal infusions at work. Yep...peanut butter and jelly sandwiches 355 days a year...IS A CRIME against food...sorry...even if that brings him great joy ...I'm never going to comprehend it.

I'm also wondering if self serve dinners/buffet style are the way to go...put the pie on the table, the cream and let him choose how big a slice and how much condiments. More individual responsibility. If he floats it in cream it's his problem ; ) Again, doesn't that alert you a little...do you really have to say...hun, you don't have to eat all of the cream if you don't want to...you can scrape it off... DOH! In fact, he doesn't have to eat the dinner either...there's bread in the fridge to make a sandwich and whatever else he wants...as long as you eat together it doesn't matter that he didn't like the dinner...as long as he has a dinner that he's happy with. This is not your problem. Home made pumpkin pie is a high effort...he's just difficult....but let him sort it out for himself. He's capable.

Yes...making pies and soup from scratch is an immense workload...I think you deserve a Miss Martha award. I'm personally fuming about the don't think you're going to get a cheap bunch of flowers if it's out of my way to drive and get them comment...what a knight. But you know...break it down......the whole qualifying that he isn't going to be able to bring you flowers all of the time comment is...fear of failure. Try and picture him buying the flowers and the level of panic...yes,most guys will just buy flowers and there you go...but he's imagining all these future scenarios where he shows up without flowers and you look sad and then comes out with this inappropriate statement cause that's where his headspace is. Goose.

Don't know what you're going to do with him. But serving dinner over him sure sounds good to me LOL. Hah, no don't do that...but picturing it everytime he makes a nasty comment has got to be therapeutic : )))

Edited October 16, 2008 by WANDERER

[secretsister]

Try this out in proving his communication skills are lacking and to add, his gratitude needs some 'real' polishing. Purchase a tape record and take a morning or evening dinner recording both of your conversation and play it back to him. If he feels he needs to voice himself, tell him to come to the forum. Some of us would like to chat over his role model as a priesthood bearer. Yes! Stuff like this makes my face turn red.

I've thought of that... and he must know it is a possibility as he's warned me if I ever record him he will divorce me. Well, it will be one way to push the envelope, huh? If I dare do it, it will either help him see he has a problem or it will get me out of this quicker.

My counselor also helped me today, to see that it is not me. I get so I worry that I'm the one with the problem. He assured me it is not. (He does call it abusive, too. I'm the one who doesn't.)

Secretsister

[Hemidakota]

Smart councilor! Thank goodness this councilor has a Spirit of discernment. SS, enduring this is hard right now. You may need some Spiritual help in softening his heart.

He maybe...as suggested already, a mild form a bi-polar. Does he exhibit cyclic mood swings?

[secretsister]

He maybe...as suggested already, a mild form a bi-polar. Does he exhibit cyclic mood swings?

Very cyclic, some worse than others. The counselor was telling ME things that are happening at home based on his knowledge of bipolar. Without seeing him, he can't diagnose, but he's pretty sure this is the case.

The sad thing is that there is medication that could really help, but getting someone with bipolar to see the need is challenging.

Secretsister

[Hemidakota]

You are right…it comes down to him, in recognizing his own mental ailment and seeking help. As I stated in another thread, most Bi-polar individuals have a common pattern of spiritual greatness that is not released due to this mental problem. They can be the nicest people you can meet but then, another day passes, switching personality as one that equals to a Mr. Hyde [i.e. Doctor Jekyll and Mr. Hyde story] – with server cases.

With most severe cases, they use a time release Depakote medicine or in mild cases, Lithium is provided. Now, getting him to see a professional councilor as you already stated, may require some fasting and prayer on your behalf. I suspect, you already have done it.

[countrygirl66]

hi secretsister,

So sorry you are not feeling the love and gratitude a daughter/son of god should. I hope the counciler is able to help you realize that although all marriages have their troubles things like this require outside help to work out. I wonder if you h realizes that it is not your job to make him happy. I mention this because that is what it took for me to work out my marriage, is to realize that my h was not responsible for my happiness. I want him to be happy and he does me but ultimately i am responsible for my own happiness and so is he. It almost sounds like your h beleives if you would just do ??? then he could be happy. Life does not work that way so he is trampling on your spirit and that is painful. There is nothing that you can do to make someone happy. It in (my opinion) is mostly a choice. I am so sorry for the pain you feel. Wanted you to know I am thinking of you. I hope you are able to find some peace. As far as his backhanded compliments, it is heartbreaking because the things he does for you should be done because you are wonderful just the way you are. If he continues to pick you apart it will take you a very long time to repair the damage. In my case I am disorganized and overwhelmed most of the time, but that is the best I can do for right now in my life so it should be appreciated. There was a time in my life that I thought if I just was good enough or put myself out enough that I could make my h happy. It sort of gave him an excuse to continue the way he was. When I decided that I was worth better than what I was getting he had to make the choice to improve or be alone. We have stayed together because of the changes that he and i have made. But I know I could have stayed and been emotionally absent. I am glad you are working to address the problems in the marriage now. Take gentle care of yourself and know you have great worth in the eyes of the lord.

[RainofGold]

Hello Secretsister,

I'm sorry that you are going through this, you sound like a kind a loving wife. I hope that your husband learns to appreciate you before is too late for him and you decide that you had enough of him. Sometimes that's what it takes for people to know what they have when they feel they lost it.

You'll be in my prayers,

Rain

[secretsister]

I've been crying an aweful lot lately, but I actually got a chuckle out of this one last night:

Remember the pumpkin pie with too much whipped cream? Well, I served him a piece of pie last night. I took a bit of the cream off of his and split it between myself and my daughter. He said, "There isn't as much whipped cream on this as last night." I explained that he didn't like so much so I took it off and put it on mine. As he reached over and took a big scoop off of my pie, he said, "It IS too much, but I like it!"

I'm relating to what Countrygirl said about not being responsible to make him happy. The fact is, I can't! When he said "Yuck!" about a mac n cheese recipe I printed off, I told him to get his mind wrapped around it because I was going to make it for dinner one of these days. Yes, I can be sarcastic and sometimes not nice too. Right now, it's survival.

Thank you, Rainofgold, for your nice comments on me being a kind, loving wife. I do think I am and I do think he's lucky to have me. It's completely incongruent with what is actually happening and that makes it hard for me to understand.

Right now, he's in a fairly normal, loving mode. It gives me time to lick my wounds and bolster up for the next blow up. I wonder what it will be?

I'm thinking about getting a job to save some money in case I do need to leave. We've always said that his money is our money and my money is our money. Any ideas on how to keep my own money???

Thanks,

Secretsister

[Hemidakota]

I'm thinking about getting a job to save some money in case I do need to leave. We've always said that his money is our money and my money is our money. Any ideas on how to keep my own money???

Perhaps, this will awaken your partner.

[applepansy]

I've been crying an aweful lot lately, but I actually got a chuckle out of this one last night:

Remember the pumpkin pie with too much whipped cream? Well, I served him a piece of pie last night. I took a bit of the cream off of his and split it between myself and my daughter. He said, "There isn't as much whipped cream on this as last night." I explained that he didn't like so much so I took it off and put it on mine. As he reached over and took a big scoop off of my pie, he said, "It IS too much, but I like it!"

I'm relating to what Countrygirl said about not being responsible to make him happy. The fact is, I can't! When he said "Yuck!" about a mac n cheese recipe I printed off, I told him to get his mind wrapped around it because I was going to make it for dinner one of these days. Yes, I can be sarcastic and sometimes not nice too. Right now, it's survival.

Thank you, Rainofgold, for your nice comments on me being a kind, loving wife. I do think I am and I do think he's lucky to have me. It's completely incongruent with what is actually happening and that makes it hard for me to understand.

Right now, he's in a fairly normal, loving mode. It gives me time to lick my wounds and bolster up for the next blow up. I wonder what it will be?

I'm thinking about getting a job to save some money in case I do need to leave. We've always said that his money is our money and my money is our money. Any ideas on how to keep my own money???

Thanks,

Secretsister

Good for YOU! I'm clapping my hands. The remark about getting his mind around the Macaroni N Cheese recipe wasn't mean. It was actually a nice thing to do. You gave him a heads up about a change that he might not be ready for, so that he could get ready. In my book, that's a nice thing to do.

I'm happy you can find humor in his behavior sometimes. LOL The whipped cream issue really shows the conflict within himself. Poor Guy! I think he might know how he's acting and doesn't know how to filter what comes out of his mouth. This is another symptom of bipolar or other mental issues.

Stay close the Lord.

As far as getting a job and putting money away? Have 1/2 of your check automatically deposted in a savings account that is only in your name. If your husband asks why its only in your name, its ok to say that's the way the company set it up. I agree with the concept of what mine is yours . . . but only to a point. All women need their own money. To save or to have readily available in case of emergencies. Most especially women in your situation. Preparation is good but I would hope that lack of funds will not keep you from being safe.

Also, if things work out then you have a nest egg to help do something together or for when your husband retires.

Good Luck and be Safe,

applepansy

[applepansy]

(He does call it abusive, too. I'm the one who doesn't.)

Secretsister

Secretsister,

You not calling abuse "abuse" is a symptom of Battered=Wife-Syndrome. You can't deal with something appropriately until you can call it what it is.

(((hugs)))

applepansy

[Tamrajh]

From one "I'm not being abused, he's just unhappy all the time" woman to another, get out.

[MorningStar]

First of all, I want to say stop knocking yourself out to make him happy. Making pumpkin soup and pumpkin pie from scratch should be something you enjoy rather than something you're doing to win him over - to prevent him from getting grumpy with you. That's how it sounds. He is impossible to please because he has a disorder. If you were Jesus, he would probably still find something wrong with you. If Jesus were to wash his feet, he would probably tell him he wasn't using enough soap.

I would just live like you normally do and blow him off when he acts like that. It seems like he's doing it for attention, even if it's negative attention. Hanging divorce over your head is lame. My friend's husband used to do this all the time until he did it in Ireland when they were visiting her family. She was feeling strong there and said, "OK, let's get divorced." That just made him more angry and he stormed off. He didn't really want a divorce. He was trying to manipulate her into being what he wanted. I think talk of divorce should never be allowed in an argument. That's below the belt. You can never take it back.

I'm praying for you. :)

[pam]

While I don't advocate divorce at all...I've been in the same situation. After 14 years I just said enough is enough and I moved out with the kids.

Financially it was a nightmare..but emotionally...oh my...what a difference.

[secretsister]

If Jesus were to wash his feet, he would probably tell him he wasn't using enough soap.

Thanks for the laugh! It is funny because it is so true!

This weekend, he has been super nice. Not one single negative comment, sincere thanks and praise galore. It's just the point in his cycle he is in. I feel calmer, but happiness is difficult because I know from experience that it is only a matter of time before we go through this whole thing again. The only difference is what it will be over.

You are right about me trying to please him. I would have done the pumpkin thing anyway because I DO enjoy it. But, I do set myself up. I think, in my mind, that he will be happy with what I've done. Then, when he complains, I am more disappointed than if I had no expectations.

This weekend, I'm perfect in every way without doing anything. I can't seem to do anything wrong. It's a hard way to live. I am acting the same and doing things the same as always. It's perfect and wonderful now, next week, I may be a complete failure.

I am praying, specifically, that he will come to the realization that he has an illness and will seek help for it.

Thanks for the support.

Secretsister

[applepansy]

secretsister.

You are in my thoughts daily and my prayers.

applepansy