Is this Christlike??

[RainofGold]

"Can't believe that some people would take away another's basic rights! AND still call themselves "Christlike".

This is what my little brother responded to a post that I forwarded about (protecting marriage) to all of my friends on my list. Yes my little brother who is gay was on this list and he responded very upset and hurt. I told him that I didn't just sent it to him but to everyone on my friends list and I also apologized if I hurt his feelings, but at the same time I reminded him where I stand on this matter. I don't want to hurt my relationship with him, he knows that I love him and even though I don't approve with his lifestyle he is and always be my little brother.

Is there anything else that I can do? Was that very insensitive of me to sent it to him?

Rainofgold

[KeithLBrown]

First of all, I don't feel that it was insensitive for you to send the post that your little brother received. You were stating your stand on an important issue and in such cases my counsel would always be to stand your ground and defend what you believe in. By the virtue of the fact that your little brother is a part of your "list", he has to realize that there may be some things that are posted that he may not agree with. I don't feel that you need to apologize for that or stop posting your stand on certain issues because of that. As long as you have done your best to make your brother understand that it was not a personal attack against him, and more importantly, as long he knows and understand that you love him, then all you can do is to keep loving him. Realize that sometimetimes people's feelings are going to get hurt because they may not agree with us, but at all costs, we must always choose the right and stand for what we believe.

[Heather]

That is tough. I think you handled it really well. if I was in your situation I would say "I love you and always will. There may be things we don't see eye to eye on, but that doesn't mean my feelings towards you change."

[Guest DeborahC]

Well, I don't think you were insensitive.

And it's honestly NOT taking away anyone's rights.

Like I've already said, my gay son doesn't think he needs the right to "marry" because his rights are protected under other laws in Oregon. I'm not sure about other states.

[Misshalfway]

"Can't believe that some people would take away another's basic rights! AND still call themselves "Christlike".

This is what my little brother responded to a post that I forwarded about (protecting marriage) to all of my friends on my list. Yes my little brother who is gay was on this list and he responded very upset and hurt. I told him that I didn't just sent it to him but to everyone on my friends list and I also apologized if I hurt his feelings, but at the same time I reminded him where I stand on this matter. I don't want to hurt my relationship with him, he knows that I love him and even though I don't approve with his lifestyle he is and always be my little brother.

Is there anything else that I can do? Was that very insensitive of me to sent it to him?

Rainofgold

What is being Christlike anyway? Love everybody and let everybody do what they want without objection while we all touch fingers and hum? It is like my kids saying its not Christ-like for me to enforce a curfew.

I am in agreement that there was no intent to hurt anyone here. It is a choice to become offended. It appears to me that you sent an email to a mailing list and he happened to be on it. Being supportive of each other in spite of differences in philosophy and politics goes both ways, Imo.

[NeuroTypical]

"Can't believe that some people would take away another's basic rights! AND still call themselves "Christlike"

Basic rights are given by God. God is the guy who defines marriage as one man and one woman. The Author of agency has made it possible for gay folks to put their desires into practice, and I'm betting your 'protect marriage' stuff wasn't about making homosexual acts illegal. He's using words innapropriately. He doesn't want basic rights, he wants society to alter itself such that it accepts his lifestyle. That ain't a right.

I don't want to hurt my relationship with him, he knows that I love him and even though I don't approve with his lifestyle he is and always be my little brother.

Is there anything else that I can do? Was that very insensitive of me to sent it to him?

If you were surprised that your gay brother would react strongly when you sent him a post "about protecting marriage", then yeah, it was pretty much insensitive. Had you been sensitive to your brother, you would have either not sent it to him, or not been surprised at his reaction.

Consider - your dear Baptist friend sent you anti-mormon material, and when you protested, she said: "I don't want to hurt our relationship, and you know I love you even though I think you're in a cult and going to hell, you are and always will be my friend."

Feel free to figure out whether this pretend friend's actions are appropriate or not - and then apply the same answer to your questions.

LM

[mightynancy]

How old is your brother? If he's of age, then yes, I think it was insensitive.

You've made your feelings known already, and he is responsible for himself. He knows you don't agree with how he lives. I'm sure it pains him, as evidenced by his response. I think his remark about being Christlike was off the mark (the Lord has made himself pretty clear!), but perhaps his barb came from feelings of hurt.

[mightynancy]

Consider - your dear Baptist friend sent you anti-mormon material, and when you protested, she said: "I don't want to hurt our relationship, and you know I love you even though I think you're in a cult and going to hell, you are and always will be my friend."

Feel free to figure out whether this pretend friend's actions are appropriate or not - and then apply the same answer to your questions.

This!

[Elgama]

if you can afford it send him a bunch of flowers - it wasn't a case of being unChristlike but imo it is insensitive. Its like my Christian friends that send me antimormon stuff or the week after my miscarriage nearly every hymn and message was related to children - neither is doing something awful but sometimes it can hurt my feelings. Learning not to take offence is something that takes time to master and isn't easy.

-Charley

[Kirajo]

I can see how he would be hurt. I can see how ALL homosexuals are hurt for that matter. But it's hard for them to understand that we aren't just trying to pass Prop 8 for the simple " homosexuality is wrong" idea. Drastic changes that WILL hurt the future of our country, schools and basic family lifestyles would most likely take place and for those reasons, we have to try our best to protect them. I think you handled it fine.

[Fiannan]

I don't know... I would just suggest you screen over your list when forwarding anything of a sensitive nature. About 5% of the people on my Facebook friends list are Muslim, so if I were to send out something that could offend a Muslim (in regards to religion) I would not forward it to them -- yet that does not mean I screen out everything I forward. As for the question about the hypothetical anti-Mormon it would depend on what they forwarded. If it were a link to one of those on-line re-enactments of a temple ceremony I would be upset but if they forwarded me something they believed in I would then use it as an opportunity to clarrify what our church really stands for.

We can't walk on eggshells all the time. I mean really, do I get offended when I am in China and people will sometimes make their eyes round and laugh when they see westerners? We will constantly rub each other the worng way -- it's going to happen all our lives. If someone does get a letter that promotes a view on marriage that the person doesn't like then they also have to appreciate where the sender is coming from.

[prisonchaplain]

"Can't believe that some people would take away another's basic rights! AND still call themselves "Christlike".

This is what my little brother responded to a post that I forwarded about (protecting marriage) to all of my friends on my list. Yes my little brother who is gay was on this list and he responded very upset and hurt. I told him that I didn't just sent it to him but to everyone on my friends list and I also apologized if I hurt his feelings, but at the same time I reminded him where I stand on this matter. I don't want to hurt my relationship with him, he knows that I love him and even though I don't approve with his lifestyle he is and always be my little brother.

Is there anything else that I can do? Was that very insensitive of me to sent it to him?

Rainofgold

The deed is done, but I do not send political material to my mother or sister, who vote differently from me, and are not about to change their views. All it would do is create tension. Add to the general mix, this issue of homosexuality, and the feelings are intensified. The errant view of those who say "live and let live," is that this orientation is hardwired into our biological makeup, and that there really is no volition.

IMHO, you did well to apologize, and perhaps less well to mitigate the apology with a refresher view on your political and moral stance. Surely he already knows this, and it makes the apology seem less than full, perhaps.

If your relationship is strong, this incident should be minor. He knows you love him and strongly disagree with how he lives. You know he loves you, and strongly disagrees with your understanding of homosexuality. Blood is thicker than politics or private lifestyles...at least it should be.

[checkerboy]

What happened to personal responsibility.....? If he is offended that is his problem. I guess it is important to not intentionally try to "offend" people and I usually try to be polite and all that but seriously he is your brother, he needs to get over it. People can be so petty these days.

[mightynancy]

Checker, what you say is true, but even when I accidentally/innocently offend someone, even the oversensitive, I'm still sorry for it and try to make amends.

I dunno, I just think compassion is called for rather than "get over it!" I often find that people who are really sensitive with OTT reactions are that way not because they seek drama but because they're hurting some other way.

[Hemidakota]

There is a time for compassion as the Lord shown to those who seeked repentance, a change in ones life, seeking the truth, but other times He did not show any compassion when direct laws were completely ignored or violated - remember the temple?

[Guest tomk]

If your motives were not to hurt then why worry?

Elder Bednar once said, "You cannot give offence. It is the choice of other people to take offence to your words." We have agency. Being offended is a choice, not a reaction we have no control over.

[Wingnut]

What's done is done, and you can't undo it. You've apologized for this event, and there's not much more you can do (except someone suggested flowers), especially since he already knows where you stand on the issue. I do think it was insensitive to include him on the email in the first place though. I would be more careful with any correspondence of a sensitive topic going forward, and if Prop 8 passes, don't include your brother in your victory email.

[RainofGold]

What's done is done, and you can't undo it. You've apologized for this event, and there's not much more you can do (except someone suggested flowers), especially since he already knows where you stand on the issue. I do think it was insensitive to include him on the email in the first place though. I would be more careful with any correspondence of a sensitive topic going forward, and if Prop 8 passes, don't include your brother in your victory email.

Did I mention that he sent me a "vote no on prop 8 don't eliminate marriage for anyone." Did I take offense? I respect his stand on this and understand where's his coming from. Do I tell him is not Christ-like to be living a gay life? To have left the church, his priesthood? No, because I think that would be more insensitive of me.

Rain

[Misshalfway]

Did I mention that he sent me a "vote no on prop 8 don't eliminate marriage for anyone." Did I take offense? I respect his stand on this and understand where's his coming from. Do I tell him is not Christ-like to be living a gay life? To have left the church, his priesthood? No, because I think that would be more insensitive of me.

Rain

It seems like you both have anxious feelings on either side of this. Is it possible to have an open and careful dialogue about exchanging politically charged email to each other? And then, why not address calmly how his "UN-Christlike" allegation made you feel. It seems like to me that he is using his political and emotional feelings to guilt you into believing his side of things or even to punish you a little for not doing so.

In any case, it seems to me that if he had issue with you sending the mail in the first place, it would have been more mature and more fair of him to kindly ask you not to so or to negotiate a better way of dealing with each other.

To kinda throw over a dig in the safety of an email, well, its just kinda ..... I don't know.... Is weak too harsh? I can't say that I really know what his feelings are under all of these issues but, I do take exception to how he chose to handle it. I just think there are better ways.... mutually beneficial ways.

[candyprpl]

Did I mention that he sent me a "vote no on prop 8 don't eliminate marriage for anyone." Did I take offense? I respect his stand on this and understand where's his coming from. Do I tell him is not Christ-like to be living a gay life? To have left the church, his priesthood? No, because I think that would be more insensitive of me.

Rain

I didn't see your mention of his 'vote No' -- maybe when you talk again, you could converse more on your differing positions -- and stress your love again and ask him to stress his love towards you, even though he disagrees with you. I think at this point I would ask that we not send each other anymore emails about the subject.

I think (IMO) that you drop the discussion about Christ-like behavior -- he was hurt and now you're hurt and that discussion will definitely just bring out un-Christ-like behavior.

*Hugs* I know this must be very difficult for you:(*hugs again*

[candyprpl]

If your motives were not to hurt then why worry?

Elder Bednar once said, "You cannot give offence. It is the choice of other people to take offence to your words." We have agency. Being offended is a choice, not a reaction we have no control over.

Yes tomk, this is true but I agree with mightynancy -- if someone does 'choose' to take offense at something we said, can't we be charitable enough to try and clear things up?

I used to be super-sensitive and it has taken me many years to realize and be responsible for my choices in regards to my feelings. I do try to be responsible, but we are human and mistakes get made -- both sides. It takes conversation then to clear it up.

Elder Bednar's counsel is perfect and we should all try to heed it -- but it takes time to change one's attitude.

[Wingnut]

Did I mention that he sent me a "vote no on prop 8 don't eliminate marriage for anyone." Did I take offense? I respect his stand on this and understand where's his coming from. Do I tell him is not Christ-like to be living a gay life? To have left the church, his priesthood? No, because I think that would be more insensitive of me.

Rain

No I don't think you had mentioned that. Like I said, what's done is done, and I still wouldn't include him on further emails about the subject. It's just not healthy to drive that kind of a wedge between family.

As for whether he was insensitive in sending you the vote no email, there are a couple of ways to look at it.

1) Did he send his first? If so, then yes, I still think it was insensitive on your part.

2) Prop 8 will affect him more than it affects you if it passes. You may disagree, but he is the one who will have his rights restricted or not. That being the case, I think he was more justified in sending you his request that you sending yours.

3) When he sent his email, did you repsond to it? Did you share your feelings at that time? Did you tell him you respect him? Did you have that interchange prior to your sending the email to which he took offense? If not, then I can see his personal justification in his indignance.

And for the record, I would continue to NOT point out that his behavior is un-Christlike. Probably a good idea to avoid that can of worms. :) However, because I like to play Devil's Advocate...did he ever call himself Christlike? His email to you implies that you have.

[Misshalfway]

Yes tomk, this is true but I agree with mightynancy -- if someone does 'choose' to take offense at something we said, can't we be charitable enough to try and clear things up?

I used to be super-sensitive and it has taken me many years to realize and be responsible for my choices in regards to my feelings. I do try to be responsible, but we are human and mistakes get made -- both sides. It takes conversation then to clear it up.

Elder Bednar's counsel is perfect and we should all try to heed it -- but it takes time to change one's attitude.

My only objection to this is that I am not sure it is required of her to take responsibility for things that are not hers to take. I mean, this brother wants her to feel guilty. That is clear to me. She can apologize for inadvertently causing him pain and explain that she didn't mean it personally, but if he is unwilling to see or accept that kind of apology, what can she do? And if there is a history of him becoming offended every time his lifestyle comes up...... well, he has some responsibility to pull his position out of the victimhood ditch.

I am in a situation right now with family members (no doubt this influences my opinion

) and they won't accept an apology unless I cave and feel the way THEY want me to feel and take the position they want me to take. Well, I can't do that and won't do that and it doesn't feel very loving for them to require it of me before we can be friends. And there are many times when I feel just like Rain does. When they have done the very same behavior but fail to take responsibility or to see the history of their own behavior accurately and what feelings they may have inspired. In fact, when I bring that up, they have sudden amnesia!

I think these sibs need to find a way to talk and a new way of respecting each others varied feelings and perspectives, rather than taking care of problems with a sharp jab thru the email. To call her Un-Christlike was manipulative and immature. If he really wanted to work things out and to consider his sister's feelings in the process, I think he would have behaved differently. And I am not even saying his feelings aren't valid. I am just saying that she shouldn't have to take the entire blame and carry all the responsibility to make this thing better. I think at some point you can only do what you can do. And if he is still upset after she has apologized, it is either on him to communicate or his deal to work out on his own.

[ztodd]

I don't know if your brother was really offended or if he was just calling names to try to make his feelings known more, like people do sometimes. If he wasn't really offended then it's not really an issue, unless you take offense now at his reply. For some reason, people sometimes get really offended if someone calls them un-Christlike. While it might give me a minute to pause and reflect on what I did, I don't let it offend me. I hope you don't either.

It's too bad that slinging names back and forth has become a part of the political discussions these days.

[checkerboy]

Yes tomk, this is true but I agree with mightynancy -- if someone does 'choose' to take offense at something we said, can't we be charitable enough to try and clear things up?

I used to be super-sensitive and it has taken me many years to realize and be responsible for my choices in regards to my feelings. I do try to be responsible, but we are human and mistakes get made -- both sides. It takes conversation then to clear it up.

Elder Bednar's counsel is perfect and we should all try to heed it -- but it takes time to change one's attitude.

I try to be responsible in what I say. I think communication is the key to just about every ill in society today. But it has been my experience that when someone is offended by what you have said or done most of the time a simple apology is never enough for them, they have become bitter and only a complete reversal of your beliefs will satisfy them. For instance, in this situation I would apologize for the email and say that I didn't realize how offensive you would find it. I wouldn't apologize for my stance, though, but I have a feeling that is what the offendee (?) would require to give forgiveness.

Let me leave you with a quote from the great Brigham Young.

"He who takes offense when offense wasn't intended is a fool. He who takes offense when offense was intended is a greater fool"