What in the heck? No caffeine?

[Maureen]

I guess I need to stop eating M&M since it is now considered a drug....dark chocolate has more caffeine than any known hot drinks.

That really depends on the amount:

8 oz., Coffee, generic brewed - 133 mg of caffeine

8 oz., Tea, brewed - 53 mg of caffeine

1.45 oz., Hershey's Special Dark Chocolate Bar - 31 mg of caffeine

Caffeine Content

If you were to eat about 4 Hershey Dark Chocolate bars then that would equal the 1 serving of coffee.

M.

[Hemidakota]

Cup of coffee..................90-150 mg

Instant coffee..................60-80 mg

Tea................................30-70 mg

Mate...............................25-150 mg

Cola................................30-45 mg

1.4 oz Chocolate bar........30 mg

Stay-awake pill................100 mg

Vivarin............................200 mg

Cold relief tablet..............30 mg

5 servings of [7oz] Chocolate bar is equal too what? 150mg

[Hemidakota]

Now since we brought the addiction of the caffeine, how many us are addicted to white refine sugar?

[MarginOfError]

Would caffeine fall under the category of "drug or chemical?" Undoubtedly. But does all consumption fall under the category of abuse? Answering yes to that question is a pretty long stretch.

Yes it does fall under the category of drug.

I guess it's a good thing that I said it is a drug then huh.

But that doesn't answer the question as to whether any use of caffeine constitutes abuse.

[Maureen]

Cup of coffee..................90-150 mg

Instant coffee..................60-80 mg

Tea................................30-70 mg

Mate...............................25-150 mg

Cola................................30-45 mg

1.4 oz Chocolate bar........30 mg

Stay-awake pill................100 mg

Vivarin............................200 mg

Cold relief tablet..............30 mg

5 servings of [7oz] Chocolate bar is equal too what? 150mg

On a daily basis, I can drink three 6-8 oz cups of coffee, which would equal 270-450mg of caffeine. I received a 100 grams (3.5 oz) dark chocolate bar for Christmas. I will probably NOT consume it in one day, it will take about 3 days (very rich). The total amount of caffeine in 100 grams is about 78 mg; that's not even close to 3 cups of coffee.

M.

[jolee65]

Its all caffeine products come on.

[Hemidakota]

No but too much is bad.

Now, we can talk about being addictive to SUGAR PRODUCTS. This is clearly more of a problem than what is being said here.

[Maureen]

No but too much is bad.

Now, we can talk about being addictive to SUGAR PRODUCTS. This is clearly more of a problem than what is being said here.

I agree!

Here’s what’s in Soda Pop:

Phosphoric Acid: May interfere with the body's ability to use calcium, which can lead to osteoporosis or softening of the teeth and bones. Phosphoric acid also neutralizes the hydrochloric acid in your stomach, which can interfere with digestion, making it difficult to utilize nutrients.

Sugar: Soft drink manufacturers are the largest single user of refined sugar in the United States. It is a proven fact that sugar increases insulin levels, which can lead to high blood pressure, high cholesterol, heart disease, diabetes, weight gain, premature aging and many more negative side effects. Most sodas include over 100 percent of the RDA of sugar....

Dangers of Soda Pop (Carbonated Soft Drinks)

M.

[gaspah]

but isnt the whole point of the restriction detailed in the Word of Wisdom for those who cannot control themselves with those things. The reason everyone abstains from alcohol being that whilst some people may be able to have 1 drink in moderation, others cannot, so by restricting its consumption totally, it doesn't encourage "the weakest of all saints" to consume. I can say as somebody who was totally addicted to Coca-Cola for many many years until just recently when I found the LDS church and the Word of Wisdom. It caused me ill health with weight gain and absolutely horrific dental problems which caused me to shy away from smiling until I had some expensive dental work done. Now, the whole point of the Word of Wisdom is that it promotes good health, shouldn't it be included.

I went to a new years party organised by some other members of my local ward, and towards the end of the night half the drinks available were Coca-Cola, I was so tempted to drink it and it made it uncomfortable for me. Wasn't the Word of Wisdom designed to help people like me?

I suppose I am lucky that I've never had a similar problem with alcohol. But I know if I take a relaxed attitude towards Coke again, within a short time I will be back in my old habit of drinking a Litre or two a day.

[peanutgallery]

I think any time a drug is used without medicinal need, it is abuse. If I took hydrocodone once a week just for kicks, it would be abuse even though I was not addicted and only did it in moderation. The recent Ensign article states that caffeine is a drug and I see no difference between caffeine and any other drug - legal or illegal. They should be avoided unless medically necessary.

[Elphaba]

I think I was about nine when my primary teacher put a little ball of hamburger into a bowl of Coke, with the idea being the Coke would eat up the hamburger and to show us what it did to our stomach.

My teacher was mortified nothing happened. You'd think she would have least done a run through.

Elphaba

[Fiannan]

I think I was about nine when my primary teacher put a little ball of hamburger into a bowl of Coke, with the idea being the Coke would eat up the hamburger and to show us what it did to our stomach.

My teacher was mortified nothing happened. You'd think she would have least done a run through.

Elphaba

Mythbusters did something similar to destroy the myth that a nail in Coke will disolve in any way.

Also, moderate caffeine use is okay -- check the article on energy drinks in this month's Ensign.

[hordak]

but isnt the whole point of the restriction detailed in the Word of Wisdom for those who cannot control themselves with those things. The reason everyone abstains from alcohol being that whilst some people may be able to have 1 drink in moderation, others cannot, so by restricting its consumption totally, it doesn't encourage "the weakest of all saints" to consume..

That is an interesting way to look at it. However the "weakest of saints" part is in the intro that also explains it isn't a commandment. I figure because it wasn't a commandment it was adapted to the "weakest of saints."

I can see how making it a commandment could help people like yourself to not consume these thing, who you might see as the "weakest of saints" but i disagree. I think the "weakest saints" would be those with addictions who can't overcome them and by sending it "by greeting and not by command or constraint" it was adapted to the "weakest of saints"

[Truegrits]

I think I was about nine when my primary teacher put a little ball of hamburger into a bowl of Coke, with the idea being the Coke would eat up the hamburger and to show us what it did to our stomach.

My teacher was mortified nothing happened. You'd think she would have least done a run through.

Elphaba

I can sooo picture that scene. How did she explain the "failed" result?

[gaspah]

That is an interesting way to look at it. However the "weakest of saints" part is in the intro that also explains it isn't a commandment. I figure because it wasn't a commandment it was adapted to the "weakest of saints."

I can see how making it a commandment could help people like yourself to not consume these thing, who you might see as the "weakest of saints" but i disagree. I think the "weakest saints" would be those with addictions who can't overcome them and by sending it "by greeting and not by command or constraint" it was adapted to the "weakest of saints"

I'm not sure I completely understood what you were trying to say. Could you explain what you mean a little further, I'm not sure its come over the way you intended it.

I'll comment on what I think you mean. I'm not sure if I can overcome it, its only been a short amount of time since I quit drinking Coke (under a month). I have tried time and time again to quit drinking it over the last 3 or so years that I've realised it was a problem (i had the same habits for a long time before that, but never saw it for what it was). For me it is the biggest weakness I have, I have no desire to drink alcohol, nor coffee etc, but put Coke in front of me, I normally cant help myself. The few times it has been offered to me in that short time, once i caved and drank it, the other time it made me feel uncomfortable and my mind was fixed on it sitting in the ice bucket.

I can sooo picture that scene. How did she explain the "failed" result?

The burger was macdonalds and therefore indestructible to the most corrosive of chemicals.

[Truegrits]

gaspah:

The burger was macdonalds and therefore indestructible to the most corrosive of chemicals.

:lol:

[hordak]

I'm not sure I completely understood what you were trying to say. Could you explain what you mean a little further, I'm not sure its come over the way you intended it.

Your post seemed to indicate the idea that banning the substance fulfills the part of the WoW that claims it is "adapted to the weakest of saints"(I.E. some can have one drink, others can't stop and therefore keeping all from drinking it is being "adapted to the weak")

I can see how you would come to this conclusion if you think the "weakest saints" are those who can only avoid the addiction by avoiding the substance all together.

I think it is an interesting perspective.

I on the other hand believe the "weakest saints" would be those who are addicted and can't quit. Since the intro to the WoW says it is adapted to the "weakest" and that it is not a commandment I believe it not being a commandment is what made it "adapted to the weak"

If drinking coke is an addiction for you and you are quitting to follow the WoW I think you are right. I think it is more important to follow the spirit then the letter of the law.

[gaspah]

If drinking coke is an addiction for you and you are quitting to follow the WoW I think you are right. I think it is more important to follow the spirit then the letter of the law.

Oh ok, now i understand what you mean. Yes, the first discussion (on WoW) I had with the missionaries that came to see me, I felt the spirit as we read the passages and all I could think of was my addiction to Coke as the rest (alcohol,tobacco,coffee) were pretty irrelevant to me at that point in my life. All I could feel was a great need to quit it.

I was also thinking further about it the other day and how Coke was only invented some time after Joseph Smiths revelation. Also, that there is heating involved in the process to create coke, brewing the ingredients in sort of a similar way to coffee, this coupled with its stimulant and addictive nature, I saw it to be in no way different to other 'hot drinks'. I saw it in this light as Ice Coffee falls under this classification also.

I just believe that revelations are relevant to the time in which they came to pass, as to be understood by people at that time. But, as new things are introduced/invented into our culture, interpretation of the old law needs to be adapted to meet the needs of the people of here and now. Either through further revelation through the current prophet or discussion amongst members. Just as 'hot drinks' was later defined to be coffee and tea, perhaps further interpretation is needed.

But, I do understand where you're coming from, as if everything addictive was banned completely there wouldn't be and 'treats' left. Although D&C 89 doesn't mention about being allowed to eat treats anyway only naturally occuring foods. Though, I'm pretty sure I couldn't handle that extreme of a lifestyle.

Edited January 8, 2009 by gaspah

[MarginOfError]

gaspah, I completely agree with you that the Word of Wisdom was given for the weak and the weakest of the Saints. It goes quite nicely with Mosiah 18:8-10, especially the part about bearing one another's burdens that they may be light.

At the same time, the idea of the membership adding restrictions to the Word of Wisdom, and not the properly authorized leaders, bothers me a great deal. I will place no value on a person's decision to consume or not to consume caffeine. Whereas it hasn't been explicitly stated in the policies of the Church, I won't judge one way or another.

However, if you are struggling with it at ward activities, I would say it is appropriate to bring it up with your bishop and request that such beverages not be provided. Mention Mosiah, and the weak of the weakest to him and make your case.

[pam]

Either through further revelation through the current prophet or discussion amongst members.

gaspah I agreed with most everything you said. However, I personally would rather hear any new revelation concerning the WoW from the Prophet himself. Discussion amongst members only leads to opinions whether they be correct or not. If you searched the many threads here on this site, you can see such varying degrees of opinions concerning things already in place. Add to that new things coming into place as progression takes place...and wow..you would have opinions on every spectrum.

There was a recent talk in the Ensign concerning energy drinks. Energy drinks being the new craze. While no official word has come out from the Church, the article did show very clearly the negative effects that energy drinks can have not only on our body but our spirit as well. We can take that however we choose.

[gaspah]

gaspah, I completely agree with you that the Word of Wisdom was given for the weak and the weakest of the Saints. It goes quite nicely with Mosiah 18:8-10, especially the part about bearing one another's burdens that they may be light.

:)

However, if you are struggling with it at ward activities, I would say it is appropriate to bring it up with your bishop and request that such beverages not be provided. Mention Mosiah, and the weak of the weakest to him and make your case.

Oh it wasnt a ward activity as such, rather an invite from a member, i think. not too sure.

At the same time, the idea of the membership adding restrictions to the Word of Wisdom, and not the properly authorized leaders, bothers me a great deal. I will place no value on a person's decision to consume or not to consume caffeine. Whereas it hasn't been explicitly stated in the policies of the Church, I won't judge one way or another.

gaspah I agreed with most everything you said. However, I personally would rather hear any new revelation concerning the WoW from the Prophet himself. Discussion amongst members only leads to opinions whether they be correct or not.

To be perfectly honest, I didn't feel quite right when I included that either, but I included it because it was in my chain of thought. I must say that i agree that i disagree with what i wrote. :lol:

also, am i supposed to be spelling Prophet with a capital 'P' ?

There was a recent talk in the Ensign concerning energy drinks. Energy drinks being the new craze. While no official word has come out from the Church, the article did show very clearly the negative effects that energy drinks can have not only on our body but our spirit as well. We can take that however we choose.

Well, it certainly sounds like an issue that will be officially addressed in the near future.

Edited January 9, 2009 by gaspah

[pam]

also, am i supposed to be spelling Prophet with a capital 'P' ?

I do as a sign of respect for the position.

[gaspah]

just another quick question, if anyone knows it. Which Prophet was it that defined "hot drinks" to be coffee/tea? Just would like to look it up further, if anyone has any links to some more information? that'd be great

thanks

[Hemidakota]

Or perhaps the capitalization of GOD for FATHER, God for the Savior, and god for those who make their own images.

Elder John A. Widtsoe, wrote the same in his book called "Word of Wisdom: A Modern Interpretation". He states:

The Meaning of "Hot Drinks". When the Word of Wisdom was first promulgated in 1833, the question was at once asked: What is the meaning of "hot drinks?" Was it an injunction against consuming beverages so hot as to burn the tongue or mouth? That did not seem reasonable. Did it mean that the consumption of warm drinks should be reduced? That did not, even in that day, seem so unreasonable, for it was recognized that the stomach lining might be made unduly sensitive by frequent large ingestions of hot liquids. In fact, some clinical results of the modern day indicate that hot beverages, continuously used, predispose the stomach to certain serious disorders.

85 - 87The question concerning the meaning of "hot drinks," as used in the Word of Wisdom, was at last brought to the Prophet Joseph Smith. He defined "hot drinks" as tea and coffee, the two common household beverages of the day. Joel H. Johnson, with whose family the Prophet was intimate, relates that on a Sabbath day in July (1833) following the giving of the "Word of Wisdom," when both Joseph and Hyrum Smith were in the stand, the Prophet said to the Saints: "I understand that some of the people are excusing themselves in using tea and coffee, because the Lord only said 'hot drinks' in the revelation of the Word of Wisdom. Tea and coffee are what the Lord meant when he said 'hot drinks.'" 2 On March 17, 1838, when the body of Seventies were preparing for their pilgrimage to the "land of Zion," they agreed that they should see to it that "the commandments are kept, and the Word of Wisdom heeded, that is, no tobacco, tea, coffee, snuff or ardent spirits of any kind to be taken internally". 3 Sometime later, in 1842, Hyrum Smith, the Prophet's brother, in speaking upon the Word of Wisdom concerning the term "hot drinks" said, "There are many who wonder what this can mean, whether it refers to tea or coffee, or not. I say it does refer to tea and coffee." 4 Brigham Young, who, as the President of the Council of Twelve, was very near to the Prophet, always taught that "hot drinks" meant tea and coffee.

He once said:

"I have heard it argued that tea and coffee are not mentioned in the Word of Wisdom; that is very true; but what were the people in the habit of taking as hot drinks when that revelation was given? Tea and coffee. We were not in the habit of drinking water very hot, but tea and coffee—the beverages in common use." 5

Moreover, from the time that the Word of Wisdom was received, until the present day, the Church as a whole has understood and taught that the term "hot drinks" refers to tea and coffee and all similar beverages. This definition may be extended to include all drinks whether hot or cold in temperature which, like coffee and tea, contain any stimulating substance, for such are detrimental to health.

This definition of "hot drinks" furnishes the key to this part of the Word of Wisdom.

One may well ask: what has modern scientific investigation to say about this definition of the term "hot drinks"? Has the statement been interpreted arbitrarily or are there good scientific reasons why such drinks are injurious to human welfare?

Reference:

1. Doctrine and Covenants 89:9.

2. Johnson, J. H., A Voice from the Mountains, p. 12.

3. Documentary History of the Church, Vol. 5, p. 90.

4. Improvement Era, 4:943.

5. Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 283.

Your answer would be President Brigham Young

[Tarnished]

I was raised by a mother who held us to the rule of no caffeine, later when I attended college and met my husband we had some discussions about the no caffeine rule. I came to see that the choice to drink no caffeine is truly just that, a choice. It is a person's choice on how they want to live the WoW. Also when I was growing up there was a family in our ward who chose to consume no sugar. They cut sugar entirely out of their diet. It was how they chose to live the Word of Wisdom. People speak of the spirit of the law and the letter of the law. The spirit of the law is different for each person.

The leaders of the church have not said that consuming caffeine will keep us from the temple. So those who choose to not drink caffeine are choosing to say, this is how I feel the WoW should be lived. It does not mean they are the more correct, it just means that they have chosen to live that way.

Currently my husband drinks caffeinated drinks, he often has an energy drink to help him get through the day. I choose not to drink the drinks because I don't like what they do to me. I tend to fidget in fast forward and I begin to shake. It is my choice, I am not better or worse than my husband for my choice. We should not berate others for their choice on how they live the WoW, if they feel it is the way they want to live it, as long as it does not break the clearly outlined rules, they should be fine.