Satan

[japacific]

My question is - Can he do anything good?

[Guest tomk]

Of course he could do good. He has free agency just like we do. But he chooses not to. He makes evil things seem good, but ulitmately has evil intentions:

Moro. 7: 17

17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.

[japacific]

When did he get his free agency?

[Guest tomk]

We are all co-eternal with God. We've always had choice.

From D&C 93:

29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.

31 Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light.

32 And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation.

Edited November 14, 2008 by tomk

[Wingnut]

It's interesting to me that as members of the Church we frequently use the phrase "free agency" but when you hear General Authorities speak about it, it's almost always "agency" or "moral agency." It is not free. It came with a price. That of Christ's blood.

(This is not intended as argument or as a "downer" -- just an interesting observation I've made).

Edited November 14, 2008 by Wingnut
spelling

[japacific]

Is Satan going to hell?

[Traveler]

I believe there is a little bit of a misunderstanding here. Part of the effects of evil is that one becomes unable to make choice and becomes a soul in “bondage” that has lost the power of agency. Of himself, Satan has lost the power to do good and overcome evil. If it were not for the Atonement of Jesus Christ, we also would lose our agency and power to do good and overcome evil.

The Traveler

[Elgama]

Satan helped answer my prayer about whether I should marry my husband, I knew if hewas that against our marriage I was for it lol also the trials he introduces to our lives help us progress. It is really our choice how much good or evil he does in our lives

-Charley

[bytor2112]

It's interesting to me that as members of the Church we frequently use th phrase "free agency" but when you hear General Authorities speak about it, it's almost always "agency" or "moral agency." It is not free. It came with a price. That of Christ's blood.

(This is not intended as argument or as a "downer" -- just an interesting observation I've made).

So true....and "free agency" is not "free" from consequences.

[Wingnut]

So true....and "free agency" is not "free" from consequences.

Exactly. Elder Bednar almost ALWAYS refers to it as "moral agency" which I think is notable. We are given agency, and are expected to use it in a moral manner, not just however we want.

Thanks for adding that.

[Misshalfway]

I believe there is a little bit of a misunderstanding here. Part of the effects of evil is that one becomes unable to make choice and becomes a soul in “bondage” that has lost the power of agency. Of himself, Satan has lost the power to do good and overcome evil. If it were not for the Atonement of Jesus Christ, we also would lose our agency and power to do good and overcome evil.

The Traveler

I think this is a great point. Satan has become something "past feeling" he has become the sum total of his many evil choices. There is no going back for him. His course is set and his fate determined as well.

[The_Seeker]

I think this is a great point. Satan has become something "past feeling" he has become the sum total of his many evil choices. There is no going back for him. His course is set and his fate determined as well.

I had never thought of it that way. So Satan isn't capable of repenting? Interesting thought. I wonder if there are others who are past redeeming as well.

[pam]

When did he get his free agency?

Your profile says you are a returned missionary. Wouldn't you already know the answers to these questions?

[bytor2112]

I had never thought of it that way. So Satan isn't capable of repenting? Interesting thought. I wonder if there are others who are past redeeming as well.

I have often wondered that as well......I am guessing the one third that were cast out are beyond redemption as well.

Edited November 14, 2008 by bytor2112

[abqfriend]

As a Catholic-I would say he is already there-and welcoming new souls every day.

Is Satan going to hell?

[MrNirom]

As a Catholic-I would say he is already there-and welcoming new souls every day.

So the Catholic's believe that there is no Judgment Day? It is an ongoing process that as soon as you die you are judged and you go to heaven or you go to hell?

[Hemidakota]

My question is - Can he do anything good?

At this point? NO!!!!! And he won't. Now, how many people seen Lucifer?

[tubaloth]

It's interesting to me that as members of the Church we frequently use the phrase "free agency" but when you hear General Authorities speak about it, it's almost always "agency" or "moral agency." It is not free. It came with a price. That of Christ's blood.

(This is not intended as argument or as a "downer" -- just an interesting observation I've made).

Actually for some reason people seem to jump to this meaing of the word free.

Free Agency has to do with Freedom to choose. Thats what Free Agency is. Freedom to choose good or bad. Free angecy has never ment it comes with out a price. I don't know why that meaning of Free is ever used?

[skippy740]

Is Satan going to hell?

My opinion is not "completely" doctrinal, but I think it makes sense.

There are TWO types of hell:

1 - Physical Place = Telestial Kingdom (which is a Kingdom for those of the lowest degree) and Outer Darkness.

2 - Not being in the presence of God is also hell.

Remember all the times the word "damn" and "damned" appear in the scriptures?

That is because our progression towards our Father in Heaven has stopped and we are "damned" because we aren't able to overcome our own faults, etc. We are forever damned until and unless we take upon ourselves the name of Christ and follow Him.

We may be "damned" to the lower portion of the Celestial Kingdom, or we may be damned to Outer Darkness. All of these are hell to the soul of he who is not living in the presence of our Father.

Hope this makes sense.

[KristofferUmfrey]

My question is - Can he do anything good?

Sure... he causes trials and temptations that help us to learn and grow spiritually. By being bad he's doing good.

[Guest SisterofJared]

Us old-timers will remember well when the term "Free Agency" was used almost exclusively to describe the freedom of choice we all have.... Just as a baseball player might be considered a free agent when he has no current contract, and is free to chose for himself what team he wants to play on.- We are all free to make our own choices.

I grew up hearing the tern Free Agency, and this "moral agency" is really more recent...and I have to confess it drives me a bit nuts to hear someone insisting that it isn't free as in the Value, but is brought with blood... and ignoring the term free as in we are FREE to choose. Some people may have moral agency.... I have free agency! I "mayest" choose for myself!

Sister of Jared

[Wingnut]

I agree that we have the freedom to choose. I don't correct anyone when they use the phrase" free agency" and I say it myself sometimes. Personally, I try to say "agency" or "moral agency" more frequently, but I don't think there's anything wrong with the use of the word "free." It was just a personal observation I was making.

(Sorry to hijack the thread.)

[japacific]

Thanks for everyone thats contributed to this thread. Someone mentioned if I am a returned missionary why would ask such a simple question like Is Satan going to hell. I returned home from my mission in 2004 but I left the church almost two years ago so now I have different opinions on everything.

[Hemidakota]

When we leave the path, or our life is inactiviity, our knowledge begins to recede. Only by returning back to that path, will we be given back what was taken.

[japacific]

When we leave the path, or our life is inactiviity, our knowledge begins to recede. Only by returning back to that path, will we be given back what was taken.

That's what they tell you at church, but my experience was that I only learned a few things over and over again in going to church for 23 years. While I was still very active in the church I learned more about its secret history and after gaining much more knowledge on the subject, I then made the decision to leave the church. So I wouldn't my knowledge receded when I left the path. My journey was - gain more knowledge - then leave the path.