Traveler Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 We are all happy that gas prices are falling but there is a down side to falling gas prices that no one is thinking about – I have not heard any updates on the news. You see the problem is with alternate fuels. In a nutshell alternate fuels cannot compete with gas unless gas is selling above $2.00 a gallon. Even electric cars per mile will have difficulty competing cost wise with gas under $2.00 per gallon. So I think I will make a prediction. That is that gas will level off and stay just below $2.00 a gallon for the next year. And you all thought that we live in a free market economy. The question is – who is controlling gas prices and why? Anyone believe it is the global economy? Also with the bail-out did you know that by the end of next year that banks (not the government) will own 1/3 of the residential housing in the USA? I think the LDS prophets warning about getting out of debt will come to mean a lot more in the coming weeks. The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 wasn't the price of gas the leading cause of some of the trouble we are now in ....for example.....high costs ...people not having the money pay for their monthly mortage payment..along with some other things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven22 Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 I think the alternative fuel, Ethanol, is a joke. Why would you take food and make fuel? Taking food away from us to make fuel that is not as good as oil. You get a lot worse gas mileage out of Ethanol than oil. Ethanol should stop being used and give us the food back. There is a much better way to use that food. People in other countries are starving and what are we doing with it? Using it to fuel our cars! Ridiculous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 this is Mitt Romney's suggestion on the bailout of the auto makers.....MoneyNews - Mitt Romney: Let Automakers Go Bankrupt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DeborahC Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 In some ways I agree with him. It annoyed the heck out of me that those guys rode in separate private planes to the meetings at a cost of around $20K EACH, according to the news! So they come begging for money, wearing a tuxedo, as someone put it! On the other hand, the trickle down sure would hurt a lot of people, from auto sales people, to auto parts people, to repair people, to ... But then, maybe it's time to bite the bullet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elphaba Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 this is Mitt Romney's suggestion on the bailout of the auto makers.....MoneyNews - Mitt Romney: Let Automakers Go BankruptGet ready to punch a hole in your wall. . . I agree with Romney!I think Obama should name Romney his Secretary of Commerce. That way he'll be in his element, but at the same time can't do any damage elsewhere. Elphie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 At some point in the future, gas prices will go up. At an even later date, fossil fuels will be depleted. Even with gas prices low, we need to build the infrastructure for alternative fuel production (nuclear, wind power, geothermal) and invest more in mass transit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 Get ready to punch a hole in your wall. . . I agree with Romney!I think Obama should name Romney his Secretary of Commerce. That way he'll be in his element, but at the same time can't do any damage elsewhere. Elphie wow....scary.....why would a Pres not want someone like him in the cabinet.....I think we need someone in that position that knows how to make money.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skalenfehl Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 Romney won't do it if he wants to run in 2012. Obama is smart to consider those who he is considering now, like Hillary for Secratary of State. If she accepts, she'd compromise her shot at candidacy in 2012 as well, assuming she wants it. But I digress... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 Romney won't do it if he wants to run in 2012. Obama is smart to consider those who he is considering now, like Hillary for Secratary of State. If she accepts, she'd compromise her shot at candidacy in 2012 as well, assuming she wants it. But I digress... If he does want to run.....it wouldn't matter in my mind....very few Republicans get the Union vote anyway especially the UAW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 (edited) I think the alternative fuel, Ethanol, is a joke. Why would you take food and make fuel? Taking food away from us to make fuel that is not as good as oil. You get a lot worse gas mileage out of Ethanol than oil. Ethanol should stop being used and give us the food back. There is a much better way to use that food. People in other countries are starving and what are we doing with it? Using it to fuel our cars! Ridiculous! You lose only about 2 miles per gallon. At least with the E-85 that I'm pretty familiar with. That's not really considered a lot less fuel mileage. Especially when it burns cleaner and is better for the environment."Ethanol production and use benefit U.S. agriculture and lead rural economic development. Because it is made primarily from corn and other agricultural products, ethanol increases demand for these crops, increases the prices farmers receive for these crops, and brings economic development opportunity to the rural areas where the ethanol is made." Edited November 21, 2008 by pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elphaba Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 You lose only about 2 miles per gallon. At least with the E-85 that I'm pretty familiar with. That's not really considered a lot less fuel mileage. Especially when it burns cleaner and is better for the environment."Ethanol production and use benefit U.S. agriculture and lead rural economic development. Because it is made primarily from corn and other agricultural products, ethanol increases demand for these crops, increases the prices farmers receive for these crops, and brings economic development opportunity to the rural areas where the ethanol is made."Okay, I'm confused.I thought he was joking. Please tell me he was joking!Do I need to remove my LOL so it doesn't look like I'm being derisive? Please tell me he was joking.Elphaba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-train Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 (edited) I find it funny how the masses are all in the know about how auto execs flew in private jets to Washington to ask for a bail-out. The auto guys are a scapegoat. They are nothing but show to give the world the impression that Washington stood up to the big bad capitalists. Meanwhile, the real enemy, the international bankers, are commencing the largest consolidation of economic power in world history and nobody seems to care.Who told the media to point out the auto guys?We should be letting everything go bankrupt and not give them one cent, MOST importantly financial institutions which sell products that they simply conjure into existence (isn't that illegal?).On the issue of gasoline, I don't think we have a nice two years of low gas prices to look forward to. The economic summit (which is nothing but a hollywood show designed to make us think the legitimate world governments are calling the shots on international finance) will provide no solutions. The REAL financiers are simply consolidating wealth and economic power. As soon as this is accomplished to their approval: bye-bye dollar, hello $5 a gallon.The word for today is: STAGFLATION."The inflationism of the currency systems of Europe has proceeded to extraordinary lengths. The various belligerent Governments, unable, or too timid or too short-sighted to secure from loans or taxes the resources they required, have printed notes for the balance." - John Maynard Keynes (socialist economist) The Economic Consequences of the Peace 1919-a-train Edited November 21, 2008 by a-train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WANDERER Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 Probably a good idea to use a range of energy sources as all energy production has an offset e.g. solar energy offset by the materials used to produce photovoltaic cells or ethanol from corn offset by loss of food crops. Upandcoming contender in the alternate energy stakes: artificial photosynthesis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrygirl66 Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! Ok I am frustrated. I have been watching the auto makers in Japan or japanese run auto companies in the US. They have a plan. They are not in huge amounts of debt. Are they losing money right now? yes (but a small amount in comparison to us automakers) Are they still moving forward? yes Why? Because their losses are in line with a bad economy, they will be able to ride it out. They have the philosophy that the workers building the cars etc. are the most important part of the company. The executives make a reasonable salary. If the workers take a pay cut so do the executives. One executive was asked how he was making it with the pay cut he had taken? He said I am doing what my employees are doing, cutting back using money I have in savings, why should they suffer and not me. One I heard about yesterday was a guy in the us working for a japanese run auto maker. He said he felt like "Charlie in the chocolate factory" and he had a golden ticket. They had to shut down his plant for a few weeks. (what did the company do?) Had him and the other workers do community service for those weeks at full pay from the company. Is he worried about getting laid off? no Why? Because the executives feel like the sucess of the company is a matter of honor. The people depending on them is a matter of honor. (not filling their own pockets with cash.) I think a lot of executives not just car makers could care less about the companies they run or the people depending on them. I say let them go broke. Will it hurt? YES But maybe someone will buy the factories that actually knows how to run them and cares about the people working for them. (I see nothing where these guys crying for a handout at our expense have done anything to move forward they just keep doing the same old thing and hope it works) WHEW! That was quite a rant. I feel better now. thanks:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 Okay, I'm confused.I thought he was joking. Please tell me he was joking!Do I need to remove my LOL so it doesn't look like I'm being derisive? Please tell me he was joking.Elphaba I took it as being serious. Maybe he was joking but didn't appear that way to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elphaba Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!The Japanese run their businesses using an efficiency tool called Total Quality Management. Everything is constantly being analyzed for greater efficiency. Everyone from the top to the bottom is responsible for the quality of their product. And yes, the salaries are reasonable from the top down.Additionally, everything else you mentioned is true. Quality is what drives the business.However, I heard the Japanese car maker's were not doing as well as they did in the '90s.Do you know anything about that?Elphaba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hordak Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 Didn't the unions have something to do with this? I grew up in MI and recall my parrents working 3 jobs between the 2 of them to make ends meet.The highest paying one was minimum wage at $4.15 an hour. Mean while every few years the unions at GM would go on strike to complain about $16.00 an hour not being enough. The main reason they can't compete with the Japanese is the cost.IMO. How can a company like Toyota build and sell cars in America for cheaper then GM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrygirl66 Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 However, I heard the Japanese car maker's were not doing as well as they did in the '90s.Do you know anything about that?ElphabaI know that they have had losses like most and they were hit by the big big truck and suv phase people went through. However their losses and lower prophits are nothing compared to the us auto makers. They seem to look down the road not just right this minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrygirl66 Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 Didn't the unions have something to do with this?I grew up in MI and recall my parrents working 3 jobs between the 2 of them to make ends meet.The highest paying one was minimum wage at $4.15 an hour. Mean while every few years the unions at GM would go on strike to complain about $16.00 an hour not being enough. The main reason they can't compete with the Japanese is the cost.IMO.How can a company like Toyota build and sell cars in America for cheaper then GM?These are not exact figures just a comparison. Where a toyota executive may make 1 or 2 million a year a GM exec would make 12 - 15 million. It is mind boggling. I would look for the exact number but I just had a bad net experience looking for info. Maybe i will try later. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted November 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 Having been in Japan consulting with a major manufacture I received a lesson in culture differences. The Japanese are more like an ant hill than what we experience. Once while driving in the countryside of Japan with my translator I noticed what looked like beer vending machines. So I asked if beer was sold to minors. My translator assured me that beer was not sold to minors. This seemed so inconsistent to me so I had to ask, “How do you keep minors from buying beer from the vending machines?” My translator looked at me in a strange way and simply said, “It is against the law.” Like that would work in the USA? Another time I was walking with 5 other foreigners late at night in a low class industrial section of southern Japan. We had worked late and decided to walk to a noodle restraint for dinner (about 10:00 pm in the dark). We were walking down a dark path with nowhere to go except the path (10 foot fence on one side and an open sewer – 12 feet across on the other) when a single school girl approached from the other direction. I felt uncomfortable for her but as we passed her I saw no concern in her eyes. Like that could happen in the USA? It is also interesting that in Japan kids are involved in school for 14 hours a day. You think American children can compete with these kids? I do not think a high schooler could compete with a 5th grader there.In Japan before a company can have a layoff the CEO must resign in disgrace without any golden parachute or any extra pay or benefits – most likely he will never again be able to work in management.In the USA, I have been involved with kiznans (Lean Manufacturing concepts developed at Toyota) and Americans just do not get it. Workers want their paid sick leave, their paid vacation and no way will an hourly worker work an extra 5 minutes without being paid. If a company is struggling in Japan workers will often work an extra 20 to 40 hours a week for several months or years just to get the company back on solid ground. In America we think we are entitled to pay rather than a job. We also think that having money – regardless of how we got it is a greater honor than working. Some Americans would not work doing things that are needed even if we get paid. It is not just a problem with exectives - Americans as a whole are lazy and overpaid. Did any suggest getting to work in the presidential election? In the USA it is all about the quick fix and the easy solution. The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgama Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 I could lend the US my son after a bowl of lentil soup, he could keep the whole country in gas for many years:lol: -Charley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBirchSociety Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 We are all happy that gas prices are falling but there is a down side to falling gas prices that no one is thinking about – I have not heard any updates on the news. You see the problem is with alternate fuels. In a nutshell alternate fuels cannot compete with gas unless gas is selling above $2.00 a gallon. Even electric cars per mile will have difficulty competing cost wise with gas under $2.00 per gallon. So I think I will make a prediction. That is that gas will level off and stay just below $2.00 a gallon for the next year.And you all thought that we live in a free market economy. The question is – who is controlling gas prices and why? Anyone believe it is the global economy? Also with the bail-out did you know that by the end of next year that banks (not the government) will own 1/3 of the residential housing in the USA? I think the LDS prophets warning about getting out of debt will come to mean a lot more in the coming weeks.The Traveler1) There is currently no viable alternative to fossil fuels, and absolutely none as cost friendly / safe as commercial nuclear power. 2) Oil is part of the commodities market, and it is manipulated like any other. 3) Remember the mining towns where the mine operators would pay people in "tokens" from the mining company to be used at the company owned stores? Well, the Federal Reserve Note is the same thing, on a massive scale. You do know that you DO NOT own the Federal Reserve Notes in your wallet / purse / bank-accounts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBirchSociety Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 Having been in Japan consulting with a major manufacture I received a lesson in culture differences. The Japanese are more like an ant hill than what we experience. Once while driving in the countryside of Japan with my translator I noticed what looked like beer vending machines. So I asked if beer was sold to minors. My translator assured me that beer was not sold to minors. This seemed so inconsistent to me so I had to ask, “How do you keep minors from buying beer from the vending machines?” My translator looked at me in a strange way and simply said, “It is against the law.” Like that would work in the USA?Another time I was walking with 5 other foreigners late at night in a low class industrial section of southern Japan. We had worked late and decided to walk to a noodle restraint for dinner (about 10:00 pm in the dark). We were walking down a dark path with nowhere to go except the path (10 foot fence on one side and an open sewer – 12 feet across on the other) when a single school girl approached from the other direction. I felt uncomfortable for her but as we passed her I saw no concern in her eyes. Like that could happen in the USA? It is also interesting that in Japan kids are involved in school for 14 hours a day. You think American children can compete with these kids? I do not think a high schooler could compete with a 5th grader there.In Japan before a company can have a layoff the CEO must resign in disgrace without any golden parachute or any extra pay or benefits – most likely he will never again be able to work in management.In the USA, I have been involved with kiznans (Lean Manufacturing concepts developed at Toyota) and Americans just do not get it. Workers want their paid sick leave, their paid vacation and no way will an hourly worker work an extra 5 minutes without being paid. If a company is struggling in Japan workers will often work an extra 20 to 40 hours a week for several months or years just to get the company back on solid ground. In America we think we are entitled to pay rather than a job. We also think that having money – regardless of how we got it is a greater honor than working. Some Americans would not work doing things that are needed even if we get paid.It is not just a problem with exectives - Americans as a whole are lazy and overpaid. Did any suggest getting to work in the presidential election? In the USA it is all about the quick fix and the easy solution.The TravelerI thought America was the most productive nation on Earth?Maybe that's a myth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted November 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 I thought America was the most productive nation on Earth?Maybe that's a myth. I think it is a myth heald over from a previous era when Americans were not afraid to work. Ask any kid in college what they want to do when they finish school. The whole reason they are going to college is so they won't have to work. Even the next president suggested that we get our future health care paid for - not by working harder but getting someone else to pay for it.The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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