Coffee in Baking?

[TeancumsSword]

That's a pretty definitive statement on the link between caffeine and coffee/tea. Perhaps you should read a thread like this one, or any of the other myriad threads on the topic.

No reason to get upset.

To me drinking pop and using a little bit of coffee flavor for seasoning are on par with each other, that being in the "no big deal" category.

Besides...

"1 A aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—

2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—"

Edited November 22, 2008 by TeancumsSword

[TeancumsSword]

No reason to get upset.

To me drinking pop and using a little bit of coffee flavor for seasoning are on par with each other, that being in the "no big deal category".

Besides...

"1 A aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—

2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—"

I guess I do say "pop" after all

[Maureen]

Alana- that is why I personally think those things are not good for us and against the word of wisdom. Not necessarily because of the caffeine, but more because of the tannins- that acid can mess up your insides....

Do you realize that there are many different kinds of foods that also have tannins? Could you offer a source that explains how tannins are not good. And show how the WoW forbids tea and coffee because of tannins? Thanks!

M.

[nc31410]

I've used the powder stuff you were talking about for brownies and such...I use to drink coffee alot back when I was not a member.

Caffiene fan be addicting, and alters your chemical enhancers in your body...hence why poeople drink coffee to give them that boost feel of being awake in the morning? Or how i've seen it used, to stay up late to study...

I mean if "coffee" didn't contain caffiene (just supposing) then it would be okay to drink, but because it contains caffiene its not good for your body!

I hope this is not confusing.

I may be wrong in my explantion lol so maybe ya'll should just ignore it haha, but i'll post it anyways, maybe it'll make sense to someone!

[Puppenstein]

Look at the ingredients of the powder because it could be coffee and of course using the grinds is coffee - but you can use the extracts or flavorings because the majority of them ironically are not coffee at all. (Yes, a pretty shocking revelation that flavorings are supposed to be something but have none of the active ingredients of the real thing that I discovered in my cooking classes) As far as alcohol - you can substitute boullion instead of wines in cooking and omit any alcohol. That way, you are getting the benefits of the extra flavor without violating anything in the WOW. Sounds delicious, but I really can't stand the smell of coffee so I wouldn't know if it actually tastes good or makes a recipe taste better to add coffee flavorings.

[Wingnut]

yes, but not today. I don't have time.

If you want. . .go to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. then click on the A-Z index. then go to the Searchable Ensign files. You'll find them.

I'll do it Monday.

applepansy

I did this tonight, in addition to searching LDS.org for cooking with alcohol, also baking with alcohol, and searching Google for "cooking with alcohol" LDS, and "baking with alcohol" LDS. The most I yielded (other than personal opinions) was an anecdote about David O. McKay taking a bite of a rum cake, at which a brother exclaimed "President McKay! That has alcohol in it! That's against the word of wisdom!" President McKay's response was "But it's not against the Word of Wisdom to eat it!" It sounds completely anecdotal to me, but the post I found it in claimed to have pulled the story from President McKay's biography by Gregory Prince.

[Oligith1]

Hey all-

I wanted to check this out before purchasing anything that would be unhealthy for myself and for others I bake for:

I have heard that a small amount of espresso powder can add depth to chocolate baked goods, however, I wasn't sure if that would be something that is against the church. I know drinking brewed coffee is, but I didn't know if it was the actual coffee bean that was bad to consume or just the brewing of the bean, since that makes it a "hot drink". I was also wondering about coffee flavoring (the kind that comes in a bottle).

I have shied away from purchasing these products in the past, but would like to know what you all think. If you have facts, too, that would be great. I have had a hard time finding out much about caffeine levels and tannic (sp?) acid in coffee beans and the liquid flavoring- or if there is a chemical change that happens when coffee is brewed compared to when pre-brewed.

Thanks!

All I have to say is EEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWW!!!!

I adore chocolate. I can't stand even the smell of coffee. I've been a professional baker though and have never heard of this "depth." Sounds to me like someone who likes coffee wants you to try *gags* it.

[Wingnut]

All I have to say is EEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWW!!!!

I adore chocolate. I can't stand even the smell of coffee. I've been a professional baker though and have never heard of this "depth." Sounds to me like someone who likes coffee wants you to try *gags* it.

I'm surprised that you've never heard of it as a professional. I've heard of it a lot. Supposedly the coffee flavor doesn't come through, but it enriches and enhances the chocolate flavor. I've never used it, just because I don't often like the smell even of coffee products, and just don't want that in my home.

[Maureen]

...Sounds to me like someone who likes coffee wants you to try *gags* it.

Yes that must be it. There's a coffee conspiracy out there. Coffee lovers are wanting to take over the world by forcing others to "eat" it. :)

M.

[Moksha]

How could one make Beef Burgundy (Boeuf Bourguignon - for you Frenchies) without the Burgundy?

[WANDERER]

I don't know if coffee essence has any coffee in it...I assume not. Because vanilla essence is a long way from vanilla extract.

Good question.

Looked up the most common version ...disclaimer on product page..contains caffeine and 4x stronger than expresso coffee.

On another note...I realised why most people like milk with their coffee...as it leaches off calcium. Ugh to meditating over that nifty fact when drinking my morning cuppa.

[MarginOfError]

No reason to get upset.

To me drinking pop and using a little bit of coffee flavor for seasoning are on par with each other, that being in the "no big deal" category.

Besides...

"1 A aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—

2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—"

My apologies for misunderstanding. For my penance, I'll dress myself in sackcloth and burnt coffee beans. :)

[MarginOfError]

yes, but not today. I don't have time.

If you want. . .go to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. then click on the A-Z index. then go to the Searchable Ensign files. You'll find them.

I'll do it Monday.

applepansy

It looks like I'll need a little help. Searching on lds.org, the only references I could find that tie the words 'alcohol' and 'cook' (or any of its forms) were talks given by Gene R Cook in which he mentions alcohol. As of yet, I've not located anything that discusses using alcohol as an ingredient.

I expanded the search to the internet at large. Surprisingly, I couldn't even find any anti-mormon stuff. I would have expected some criticism from the anti- community that we won't drink it but we will cook with it. Struck me as interesting that even the anti-'s don't care.

I did find three mentions of it in the following:

"Speculation also exists concerning the use of alcohol as a cooking ingredient or the use of decaffeinated coffee or tea.[citation needed] The church has taken no official stance on either." -- Wikipedia (Sorry Hemi)

"Currently the only place I use alcohol in cooking is in deglazing a pan. If a sauce calls for alcohol I usually add it first, so that a majority of the alcohol cooks off. In a case like this, you'll be left with about 5 to 10% of the original alcohol content remaining. That'll leave you less alcohol than the same amount of commercial orange juice." Mormon Foodie. but this one makes no mention of an official statement...only opinion.

"At a reception McKay attended, the hostess served rum cake. 'All the guests hesitated, watching to see what McKay would do. He smacked his lips and began to eat.' When one guest expostulated, 'But President McKay, don’t you know that is rum cake?' McKay smiled and reminded the guest that the Word of Wisdom forbade drinking alcohol, not eating it." David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism, Gregory Prince and Wm. Robert Wright, p. 23. (Mormon Mentality) This actually has some interesting comments on it where McKay is criticized for this action. But again, nothing pointing to any official statement.

So far, that's the best I've been able to do.

[mnn727]

I have covenanted not to partake of coffee -- period. That covenant did not have any clauses saying 'except when used as an ingrediant'.

To me, you either follow the Covenant you made or you don't - you've got your freedom to choose, but lets not pretend that it doesn't count.

[lilered]

When considering the health benefits to the Word of Wisdom, should we just look at the caffeine content of coffee, tea and other sources? It is not just the caffeine in coffee and tea that produces harmful effects to our health. Take the caffeine out and you are still left with the following consequences:

Hundreds of potentially harmful chemical components. One class of these compounds is caffeols. Caffeols are coffee oils, which are very irritating to the gastrointestinal tract. In addition, many other chemicals that have been linked to cancer and heart disease are still present as are other central nervous system stimulants (Journal of the National Cancer Institute 54:587, 1975).

The coffee bean's composition is dramatically altered during roasting, resulting in chemical transformations where more than 700 "volatile substances…are formed (Garattini, Silvio, Caffeine, Coffee and Health, Raven Press, New York, 1993, pp. 17-41 and H. Maarse, Volatile Compounds in Food, Vol. 2, 6th Ed., Zeist, 1989).

Such chemicals as acetaldehyde, ammonia, carbon disulphide, acetic acid, nitrosamines, and others may make coffee a mouthful of trouble! (Garattini, Silvio, Caffeine, Coffee and Health, Raven Press, New York, 1993, pp. 17-41 and H. Maarse, Volatile Compounds in Food, Vol. 2, 6th Ed., Zeist, 1989).

But whether it's decaffeinated or not, just one daily cup of coffee increases the risk of bladder cancer three times (American Journal of Epidemiology 117: 113-127, 1983; Journal of the National Cancer Institute 547, 1975).

And drinking more than two cups a day of caffeinated coffee doubles the risk of fatal bladder cancer (American Journal of Public Health 74(8)820-23, 1984).

Brown drink users have an increased risk of stomach, kidney, lung, pancreatic, ovarian and colon cancer. (George Hodgkin, M.S., R.D., et. al., Caffeine: Bad to the Last Drop, Loma Linda, CA) and (International Journal of Cancer 28(6): 691-693, 1981).

So, we know, scientifically, that coffee brings unique and serious health risks, even without the caffeine. There is plenty of the same regarding tea.

Lastly, I want to address the apparent lack of clarity within the Word of Wisdom. One would be correct in saying that the revelation, we call the Word of Wisdom, does not say "caffeine," or "cola." Of course, it also doesn't include, as substances to avoid, marijuana or cocaine. One must look past the words and look to the spirit of the counsel contained within the revelation.

Are we looking to abide by the letter or the spirit of the law? The spirit of the law says to treat our bodies well…to feed it healthy substances and to abstain from harmful substances. Is cocaine harmful? Is marijuana harmful? That seems to be a pretty easy question to answer. A more difficult one for many is the question of the harmful effects of caffeine…and the quantities that we should allow in our bodies.

One study has declared that the average American consumes 280 mg of caffeine per day (which is a level considered harmful to the body, according to the same study). This is the equivalent to 2-3 cups of coffee per day. An average and active Latter-day Saint, who abstains from coffee and tea, would have to consume 7 or 8 cans of cola to reach this level…or 18 Cadbury chocolate bars…or 56 cups of hot chocolate (which equates to about 3 buckets full) per day…or some combination of the above.

The point is clear…moderation and avoiding unhealthy substances and/or unhealthy levels of other substances.

Many General Authorities of the Church have included caffeine as something to avoid, consistent with the spirit of the Word of Wisdom. But, that is not by the letter of the law. It is not official Church doctrine. Do we need to avoid any and all levels of caffeine? Well, I guess that is one of those things that is left up to the individual. Not everything is black and white. However, the official interpretation of the Word of Wisdom on this wise, is coffee and tea.

Some things require us to make a judgment. And not all of us will make the same judgment. Some of us will make wrong judgments (I do it everyday, it seems). We are human…yes, even the Latter-day Saints are human…and fallible (tongue in cheek) as much as many would try to hold us to a different standard. (Source Silly Premises Lead to Silly Conclusions)

[applepansy]

Please understand I'm not being snippy. I actually haven't ever heard this and am wondering if you can indicate when such statements have been made or by whom.

I apologize. I sound have found the source BEFORE posting.

We were at a family party last night. My mother remembers that cooking with alcohol was mentioned in Conference years ago, but my younger sisters did not.

I have spent some time searching through the Ensign articles. I am going to need a bit of time to find the talk. Big job since there have been many many talks on the Word of Wisdom.

Right now, I'll retrack my statement and keep searching. Maybe I'll find it before next year. The search engine for the church magazines does have some limitations.

applepansy

[applepansy]

I did this tonight, in addition to searching LDS.org for cooking with alcohol, also baking with alcohol, and searching Google for "cooking with alcohol" LDS, and "baking with alcohol" LDS. The most I yielded (other than personal opinions) was an anecdote about David O. McKay taking a bite of a rum cake, at which a brother exclaimed "President McKay! That has alcohol in it! That's against the word of wisdom!" President McKay's response was "But it's not against the Word of Wisdom to eat it!" It sounds completely anecdotal to me, but the post I found it in claimed to have pulled the story from President McKay's biography by Gregory Prince.

I apologize. . . I'll find more source next time before posting. I'm still looking too.

applepansy

[TeancumsSword]

I apologize. I sound have found the source BEFORE posting.

We were at a family party last night. My mother remembers that cooking with alcohol was mentioned in Conference years ago, but my younger sisters did not.

I have spent some time searching through the Ensign articles. I am going to need a bit of time to find the talk. Big job since there have been many many talks on the Word of Wisdom.

Right now, I'll retrack my statement and keep searching. Maybe I'll find it before next year. The search engine for the church magazines does have some limitations.

applepansy

It was probably under the advisement of "avoiding the appearance of evil", rather then a WofW issue. But for those of us who don't care what others think and like good food...

[TeancumsSword]

Since we are on the subject...

I know fundamentalist Mormons (who generally are much more strict about the WofW) who practice more herbal based medicine solutions who use vodka in some of the medicines they make up (I forgot what the type of medicine is called, it'll come to me after I post surly).

What do you think about using it in natural medicines? Like, as a midwife, using a little wine to help the woman's body relax during childbirth?

[hordak]

Since we are on the subject...

I know fundamentalist Mormons (who generally are much more strict about the WofW) who practice more herbal based medicine solutions who use vodka in some of the medicines they make up (I forgot what the type of medicine is called, it'll come to me after I post surly).

What do you think about using it in natural medicines? Like, as a midwife, using a little wine to help the woman's body relax during childbirth?

Giving a blood thinner like alcohol during childbirth seems dumb to me. But using alternative and natural medicine is a good thing IMO.

[Guest Alana]

Since we are on the subject...

I know fundamentalist Mormons (who generally are much more strict about the WofW) who practice more herbal based medicine solutions who use vodka in some of the medicines they make up (I forgot what the type of medicine is called, it'll come to me after I post surly).

What do you think about using it in natural medicines? Like, as a midwife, using a little wine to help the woman's body relax during childbirth?

Not for it. Makes me think of Joseph Smith when he was having an operation and refused the alcohol. Also, I could get a medical marijuana card if I wanted (California) but I'm not about to toke up any time soon.

[Moksha]

"At a reception McKay attended, the hostess served rum cake. 'All the guests hesitated, watching to see what McKay would do. He smacked his lips and began to eat.' When one guest expostulated, 'But President McKay, don’t you know that is rum cake?' McKay smiled and reminded the guest that the Word of Wisdom forbade drinking alcohol, not eating it."

...This actually has some interesting comments on it where McKay is criticized for this action. But again, nothing pointing to any official statement.

David O. McKay not being Pharisaical as well as his ability to have compassion and think outside the box, is a wonderful tribute to him. Think how inspired President McKay was in coming to Sterling M. McMurrin's defense, when others wanted to toss him out of the Church.

[Wingnut]

The search engine for the church magazines does have some limitations.

I have also found this to be true. I hoping (because of this) that you can come up with something, but I'm also hoping that you can't, because I enjoy using wine in my cooking. Risotto just won't be the same without it. :)

Giving a blood thinner like alcohol during childbirth seems dumb to me. But using alternative and natural medicine is a good thing IMO.

Giving alcohol during childbirth seems dumb to me. I don't know, maybe it's just the mother in me. No wait, I think it's the common sense in me.

[TeancumsSword]

Not for it. Makes me think of Joseph Smith when he was having an operation and refused the alcohol. Also, I could get a medical marijuana card if I wanted (California) but I'm not about to toke up any time soon.

Alma 21 : 76 But not so much so with fevers, because of the excellent qualities of the many plants and roots which God had prepared, to remove the cause of diseases to which man was subject by the nature of the climate.

I believe anything that God has caused to grow up from the earth has something useful about it. And if marijuana is the most natural medicine that will help my condition, sign me up.

[NateHowe]

When we agree to live the Word of Wisdom, we agree to abstain from coffee, tea, alcohol, tobacco, and harmful drugs. Period. I can see eating some foods cooked with alcohol in a situation where the heat causes the alcohol to burn or evaporate - this would not qualify as consumption of alcohol if the alcohol is gone. However, I cannot see how eating ground coffee beans in a cake would be chemically different from drinking coffee. It is a change in delivery method only.