Question about changes in temple

[Guest JHM-in-Bountiful]

I've been in a temple to do baptism work. I will probably get my endowments done this coming July. I want to make this as general as possible, due to the sacred nature of temple work. Over the years certain temple ordinances OR parts of them have been changed or removed. The church publicly said changes took place in 1990. Why has there been a need to change what goes on in a temple? The 1990 change has not been the only time. Based on the changes I'm aware of, it seems like the church is trying to become more streamlined and politically correct. That kind of bothers me. Why would Heavenly Father want ANYTHING changed or taken out in the work done in his house. Does is not say somewhere in scriptures that Heavenly Father is not a changing god? I'm sorry if I have offended anyone by this topic. I will understand if this thread gets closed or deleted .

[BenRaines]

I believe that revelation is based upon a persons understanding. Perhaps sometimes the exact words are given but often things are revealed and then the person receiving the revelation writes it as they understand it. Our language and actions are often based on our understanding at that time. The covenants made in the temple have not changed. Some of the wording has but it has not changed the covenant.

Ben Raines

[Palerider]

We use to attend church in the morning and back in the evening for Sacrament mtg.....that changed in 1980....thats when the church went with the 3hr block meeting.....the changes made in the Temple are not that big a deal....just prepare yourself yourself to go and feel the spirit and enjoy...:)

[Abraham]

1) If you're that concerened about revelation regarding temple work, and following the living prophet, maybe you should wait to go to the temple.

2) You receive your endowment not 'get it' ot 'take it out', if you are endowed with power you don't get to take it with you, it is received like an endowment or gift from the Spirit and the Lord.

3) Focus on preparation and the message of the temple not the mechanics. I know you are from a Western Culture that focuses always on the 'bottom line" e.g., efficiencies, numbers, etc, but you are missing the point.

If you get a chance to attend a devotional by the temple President you will be enlightened.

All the best in your quest,

Abraham

[Maya]

I just made the old ways before the change... change DID make me think; is this a step forward or backward? Are we too week to hold our stand or is this Gods will.

I believe that we as people have developed (I hope) to an extent, where the old way of doing things would not serve its purpose. The old symbols do not mean the same any more, like Ben said about the language and understanding.

Today we in this country are even getting a law that parents are not allowed to give a child even a little fling (or what ever with their finger) without consiquences. The old way of bringing up kids is not taken with a good eye. (In many ways I think this is hypocrasy as the same people can bully others freely if they dont like, what they represent, or even go to war against other people or look at very bad and violent films.)

Anyway the societys finger is pointing to there, where there is a smallest sighn of old principals. (I think it has its positive sides... maybe we get out of the caves soon!) At the moment it seems that we have a will to develope, but we may lack the strength and the knowhow. As much as many work for not having violence in the world others work for it. But no doubt the most vounerant and good spirits dont want violence and nothing that points to that, not even in the Temples.

So this is the way it is now done in Temples. And I think it is great! What ever the reason is, God had His reasons to do what He did. The most important is the work we do. And I pray that all the changes are because we have developed.....

[MarginOfError]

A lot of the recent changes that have taken place in the Temple Ordinances have more to do with comfort and privacy than anything else. I know this is kind of cliche to say now, but people in our society are living longer than ever. It is getting harder for them to do the ups and downs that were required previously.

Some changes were prompted by privacy. Yes, in today's political climate, privacy is a big issue and I imagine the Church didn't want to put itself in a position where it would be vulnerable to claims of violation of privacy. Also, people are more likely not to attend the Temple at all if they feel that their privacy is not going to be maintained, and there's no point in having a Temple if people aren't comfortable attending.

The primary thing to remember is this: the teachings of the Temple are symbolic. The form and procedure of the ordinances are intended to reflect the symbolism. Sometimes, changes may need to be made to accommodate social tolerances, but when these changes are made, the symbolism of the ordinance will be untouched, and the lessons taught will be no different than before.

[applepansy]

In all the years I've been attending the temple there have been a few changes. The endowment convenants never changed. The only things that changed were the things that make it easier or more confortable. As I get older and as my Fibromyalgia and other issues get worse I was happy to see the last change.

Sometimes change makes us feel that everything has changed, when what we need to do is hold on to those things that never change. Those "things" are the "things of God." God never changes.

applepansy

[MarginOfError]

In all the years I've been attending the temple there have been a few changes. The endowment convenants never changed.

You might be able to make a case that this isn't strictly true. For instance, about 30 years ago, the covenant in the endowment related to chastity said that men and women would not have "sexual intercourse" except with their spouse. This was changed to "sexual relations." I'm sure most of us can imagine why that change was necessary.

In the future we may actually see another change to the wording of this covenant. If same sex marriage passes, the current wording of the Temple Covenant for chastity could be construed to say that sexual relations between married homosexual partners is not a violations of the covenant. I have a suspicion that "loophole" would get closed pretty quick.

But in spirit, what you said was true. While the language of the covenant may change from time to time, the spirit of the covenants is constant. This applies to all of the covenants in the temple, not just those made in the Endowment.

[georgia2]

I know that certain changes have take place in the initiatory ordinance.

I know this has changed not because God has changed, but because of the evil thinking of our society. The ordinance has not changed, or the blessings, just the way they are bestowed. I feel it is a shame that it had to happen because I feel it lacks the personal and special way it made you feel. I know why it changed and understand it due to the increase of evil and the increase of persecution on righteousness.

[prisonchaplain]

Outside thought here . . . maybe the "changes" were more to emphasize certain truths, and to remove focus on less important aspects. BTW, I'm not Catholic, but I rather appreciate the changes Vatican II brought to that church, as well.

[Gwen]

one change i don't like is the process at the recommend desk. this scanning the bar code thing, i do understand but in my opinion it's taken to far. i accidentally washed my recommend, it was due to be renewed in 2 months so i didn't make a fuss about it. every bit of it could be read, all the information was there (and in the past would have been more than acceptable) but the computer that does the bar code scanning couldn't read it. i was treated like i failed to bring my recommend or i was trying to sneak in without one. they called my branch pres, and i got a huge lecture about how i care for my recommend (i thought how i cared for my covenants was most important). i was told not to come back till i talked to the branch pres for a new one (well, it was expired in 2 months so that would be the case anyway). i honestly didn't feel like going in after the way i was treated, i almost walked out; took a lot for me to be there to begin with.

oh well.

[Justice]

Very unfortunate.

It should always be about the people, not about procedures and red tape.

Frankly, I have a hard time believing that any temple worker would treat anyone in such a manner.

[annewandering]

Everyone has bad days and was not likely meant how it came out. Some times I think its not the gospel we are tried with, it's our fellowman.

[georgia2]

one change i don't like is the process at the recommend desk. this scanning the bar code thing, i do understand but in my opinion it's taken to far. i accidentally washed my recommend, it was due to be renewed in 2 months so i didn't make a fuss about it. every bit of it could be read, all the information was there (and in the past would have been more than acceptable) but the computer that does the bar code scanning couldn't read it. i was treated like i failed to bring my recommend or i was trying to sneak in without one. they called my branch pres, and i got a huge lecture about how i care for my recommend (i thought how i cared for my covenants was most important). i was told not to come back till i talked to the branch pres for a new one (well, it was expired in 2 months so that would be the case anyway). i honestly didn't feel like going in after the way i was treated, i almost walked out; took a lot for me to be there to begin with.

oh well.

Sorry that this happened. It is a sad thing that sometimes members get caught up in the people for the guidelines instead of guidelines for the people . If Jesus were at the desk, he wouldn't even need your recommend!

[bmy-]

Outside thought here . . . maybe the "changes" were more to emphasize certain truths, and to remove focus on less important aspects. BTW, I'm not Catholic, but I rather appreciate the changes Vatican II brought to that church, as well.

That amongst a combination of other factors imo. From what I can find research wise.. the ordinances were extremely long too. We're an efficient Church.. I see no reason for our temples to not operate in the same way.

Get in.. get your work done.. and have time to think and pray inside the temple. Sounds like a winner to me.

[MarginOfError]

one change i don't like is the process at the recommend desk. this scanning the bar code thing, i do understand but in my opinion it's taken to far. i accidentally washed my recommend, it was due to be renewed in 2 months so i didn't make a fuss about it. every bit of it could be read, all the information was there (and in the past would have been more than acceptable) but the computer that does the bar code scanning couldn't read it. i was treated like i failed to bring my recommend or i was trying to sneak in without one. they called my branch pres, and i got a huge lecture about how i care for my recommend (i thought how i cared for my covenants was most important). i was told not to come back till i talked to the branch pres for a new one (well, it was expired in 2 months so that would be the case anyway). i honestly didn't feel like going in after the way i was treated, i almost walked out; took a lot for me to be there to begin with.

oh well.

I'm wondering why they didn't just look up the recommend number to see if it had been activated and if it were still activated. That's supposed to be the beauty of a computer system is multiple checks. Sounds like a training issue to me.

[applepansy]

I'm wondering why they didn't just look up the recommend number to see if it had been activated and if it were still activated. That's supposed to be the beauty of a computer system is multiple checks. Sounds like a training issue to me.

I agree.

Gwen I'm sorry that this happened to you. Just remember we are imperfect people trying to do our best. Sometimes there are differences between temples in procedure depending on the Temple President. Sometimes its just a difference from one temple worker to the next.

I love the new scanning. There are no misunderstandings when its used right. What you ran into was a Brother who most likely needed more training.

About a year or so ago, one of the sistters in our ward was doing a lot of geneaology. In the dressing room she was asking members of our ward if they would take one of her family names. A temple worker got upset and told her she couldn't do that. It surprised us all. After goiing through the session we realized that she wasn't objecting to sharing family names but to where they were being passed out. It could have been viewed as disruptive. So now she passes them out before we go.

Sometimes problems occur or issues arise that we don't understand. Its best to not let these problems offend us but to approach the problem as Christ would, with love. I think these little blips in our lives are a test to see how we'll respond. :) We are here to be tested afterall.

applepansy

[MarginOfError]

About a year or so ago, one of the sistters in our ward was doing a lot of geneaology. In the dressing room she was asking members of our ward if they would take one of her family names. A temple worker got upset and told her she couldn't do that. It surprised us all. After goiing through the session we realized that she wasn't objecting to sharing family names but to where they were being passed out. It could have been viewed as disruptive. So now she passes them out before we go.

It's funny how differently the temple workers might respond based on how they've been trained. In the training I received (the lack thereof, actually...the temple worker training never seemed to fit into my class schedule), I was instructed that we should discourage people from passing family file names to strangers. This was twofold: 1) to preserve reverence in the changing rooms, and 2) to prevent disruptions in the Celestial room when the member went to get them all back.

At the same time, there was an unspoken agreement that in small sessions, we would overlook this rule and tell the member that the officiator would collect the family file names and return them to the member (we were lucky to have 5 people in a session on my shift).

[gomspal]

My wife calls those people working in the temple who are very strict in obeying the guidelines, which are sometimes for convenience, temple police. One time, she went to the endowment session with skirt under her temple dress. She totally forgot to take it off. She was pregnant (I don't know if that counts hehehe). After she discovered it, they wanted her to redo the whole endowment process. She did not do it. But they probably took the name and have it redone by another patron.

Oh well, we really have a lot of over "enthusiastic" people in the temple. They should remember that policies and guidelines are there to serve people and not people to serve policies and guidelines. Happy New Year to everyone.

[MarginOfError]

My wife calls those people working in the temple who are very strict in obeying the guidelines, which are sometimes for convenience, temple police. One time, she went to the endowment session with skirt under her temple dress. She totally forgot to take it off. She was pregnant (I don't know if that counts hehehe). After she discovered it, they wanted her to redo the whole endowment process. She did not do it. But they probably took the name and have it redone by another patron.

I can totally see how a pregnant woman would forget to take her skirt off, and that's utterly hysterical.

But frightening that the ordinance workers responded the way they did. Pull the stick out already.

It almost reminds me of people that question whether an ordinance is valid if we mispronounce the name. What's next...the ordinance is only complete if the lines on your socks are parallel to the ground when you stand?

[Justice]

MoE, the word utterly in your comments brought back a memory...

A new missionary was bearing his testimony a while back and said, "I feel like a cow in tall grass...

udderly tickled to be here."

Corny, but made for a good laugh.

[MarginOfError]

MoE, the word utterly in your comments brought back a memory...

A new missionary was bearing his testimony a while back and said, "I feel like a cow in tall grass...

udderly tickled to be here."

Corny, but made for a good laugh.

--backing away from Justice--

Did you just make a cow joke immediately following the mention of a pregnant woman!?

but really...I almost did laugh out loud...that would have been fun to explain to my boss.

[applepansy]

It almost reminds me of people that question whether an ordinance is valid if we mispronounce the name.

In the temples I've been to (mostly Utah), the ordinance workers don't say the name until you do and then they use the same pronunciation as you did. I guess you've run into someone with a difference process.

We can all be nit picky about some thing sometime. I admit I'm a bit OCD about how the paper towels are hung in the kitchen. Either way it gets the job done. But for the life of me I can't seem to change that if they are hung backwards I get annoyed.

Ok. . . I admit it. I have OCD tendencies when eating M&Ms too.

applepansy

[Justice]

LOL... I'm at home... and didn't even think about being after a pregnant woman...

... honestly!

[miztrniceguy]

gomspal....what color was the skirt?