Where Are Your Children

[YellowLight]

A little while ago I got into a debate with my father and we somehow got on the topic of people who did not have children and did not wish to. I have two children that I absolutely love and consider them one of my greatest blessings but let’s face it, some people are just happy as can be without children. Well, my father goes off on a tangent that those who choose not to have children will have to repent once they die. I think he is coming from the viewpoint that in order to progress to Godhood, one will have to “create” their own spirit children in order to achieve exaltation. So, what do you guys think? I think this follows the same lines as those who don’t get married…some are just content by themselves, but we know what the church says. My brother is 34 and not married and has no intention of getting married…does he need to repent? It is difficult to see him pass judgement on his own son for not being married much less on others that he doesn't even know.

[NeuroTypical]

From The Family: A Proclamation to the World

The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God's commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force.

So yeah, God has commanded his children to multiply. He didn't say "unless you're content without 'em".

It's a "keep the commandments" thing. Not a 'progress to Godhood' thing, or a 'pass judgement' thing.

LM

[lusciouschaos]

I didn't marry until I was 34 but it wasn't a decision not to marry. I was just in the temple last week and the part about multiplying in their own .... and find joy in their posterity hit me powerfully. Since we never know the whole story behind a choice to marry or have children I wouldn't want to judge but I suspect as you get closer to God and Christ you seek these things.

[YellowLight]

From The Family: A Proclamation to the World

So yeah, God has commanded his children to multiply. He didn't say "unless you're content without 'em".

It's a "keep the commandments" thing. Not a 'progress to Godhood' thing, or a 'pass judgement' thing.

LM

So you are saying that all married couples everywhere should multiply and replenish the earth? Did you know that a child dies of hunger every 3.08 seconds or approximately 26,000 a day? Why would God want you to multiply as he takes away so many before they have had a chance to do the same? Also, with around 4 million active LDS members equating to .066% of the worlds population, you think that one simple phrase is the one all solution? What if someone receives a feeling they should not have children. Can you deny their personal revelation? Besides, you don't know God's thoughts. I think there are other commandments that should be worked on before one tries to tell people they need to have children.

Edited February 3, 2009 by YellowLight

[john doe]

Oh yes, it looks like someone has been hanging out with the 'zero population' crowd. My suggestion to those who don't want to populate the earth more than it is today is, let it start with yourself. My experience has been that most people who think the earth is over-populated don't think want to be first in line to make it one less. Hypocrites.

[Janice]

So you are saying that all married couples everywhere should multiply and replenish the earth? Did you know that a child dies of hunger every 3.08 seconds or approximately 26,000 a day? Why would God want you to multiply as he takes away so many before they have had a chance to do the same? Also, with around 4 million active LDS members equating to .066% of the worlds population, you think that one simple phrase is the one all solution? What if someone receives a feeling they should not have children. Can you deny their personal revelation? Besides, you don't know God's thoughts. I think there are other commandments that should be worked on before one tries to tell people they need to have children.

Maybe I am wrong, but I sense some real emotion behind your words. Seems like you have strong feelings about this.

I am not going to judge anyone who has made the choice to not have kids. I hope they made that choice, however, not based on stats and numbers, but on a deep, spiritual belief that having kids is not right for them.

Janice

[YellowLight]

Oh yes, it looks like someone has been hanging out with the 'zero population' crowd. My suggestion to those who don't want to populate the earth more than it is today is, let it start with yourself. My experience has been that most people who think the earth is over-populated don't think want to be first in line to make it one less. Hypocrites.

Did you bother to actually read my posts, I am not sure you did. Do you realize that my wife and I spent a significant amount of money and time for fertility treatment so we could have our second child which is our own little miricle baby. Did I say anything about me not having children? Who are you to come at me with a totally unbased and biased ad hominem attack? Perhaps you should log off and re-evaluate your own conscience and come back when you have something of substance to add.

[MorningStar]

We all have commandments we don't like to follow. We're all commanded to multiply and replenish the earth (however not everyone is able), but other people not following it shouldn't be your dad's problem. Also, I think even poor people should get to experience the joy of having children.

[Janice]

Did you bother to actually read my posts, I am not sure you did. Do you realize that my wife and I spent a significant amount of money and time for fertility treatment so we could have our second child which is our own little miricle baby. Did I say anything about me not having children? Who are you to come at me with a totally unbased and biased ad hominem attack? Perhaps you should log off and re-evaluate your own conscience and come back when you have something of substance to add.

Whoo!

I thought his post was rude too, but two wrongs don't make a right. Take a deep breath and smile. you are going to give yourself high blood pressure! How could he have known anything about your fertility treatments? You didn't tell us.

I wish you the best of luck in your quest to become pregnant. I can only imagine how painful it would be to want children and hot have them.

Janice

[Maureen]

Well, my father goes off on a tangent that those who choose not to have children will have to repent once they die.

I have to agree with you YellowLight. I don't see the "multiply and replenish the earth" as a commandment that if not followed will result in punishment. I think of it as instructions to human children who also have the power to create. There are definitely people out there that don't want children and probably know why they don't want them. There are some that shouldn't have children and those that dearly want them and can't have them. Your father's harsh judgement may not work in his favour.

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. (Matthew 7:1-2)

[NeuroTypical]

So you are saying that all married couples everywhere should multiply and replenish the earth?

No, I'm saying God said it. You saying He didn't?

Did you know that a child dies of hunger every 3.08 seconds or approximately 26,000 a day? Why would God want you to multiply as he takes away so many before they have had a chance to do the same? Also, with around 4 million active LDS members equating to .066% of the worlds population, you think that one simple phrase is the one all solution?

Why the leap to associate this commandment with solutions to world's problems? Why would you think God's commandment to multiply was intended to do anything but keep the race of man, with all of it's trials and tribulations, going? To provide earthly tabernacles for His spirit kids, so they could learn and grow (yes, and die)?

What if someone receives a feeling they should not have children. Can you deny their personal revelation?

It's between them and God. Of course I can't deny their claims. I can pretty much take a stand on people turning their backs on God's commandments because (in your words) "some people are just happy as can be without children." My stand: Following God's commandments is a better plan than rejecting them, no matter how happy you happen to be with your life right now.

I think there are other commandments that should be worked on before one tries to tell people they need to have children.

You seem to have made me the 'have kids now' spokesman against my will. All I did was quote the proclomation to the family, and flick a boogie at the "I'm too happy to have kids" crowd. I could care less how people chose to follow this commandment - it ain't in my stewardship to tell 'em anything one way or the other.

My wife and I multiplied by one (two kids), and we're done.

LM

Edited February 3, 2009 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[john doe]

Now where's that LOL button when I need it? The earth has plenty to feed the starving children in Africa, or anywhere else, if the people of this earth will just do what it takes to do it. Maybe you didn't know it, but the US government pays farmers to not grow food products. Maybe you didn't know it, but the US government subsidizes farmers who sell their corn to E85 plants, for a fuel we don't need. The whole overpopulation thing is a scam. How much food do you think rots on the docks of foreign ports while the people of those countries starve? It's not a matter of not enough food to go around, it's a matter of grwing and distribution of food. And yes, anyone who claims that we need less people on this earth but won't stand in the line to self-abort to help reduce the number of people here, is a hypocrite. I challenge them to start with themselves.

[YellowLight]

Now where's that LOL button when I need it? The earth has plenty to feed the starving children in Africa, or anywhere else, if the people of this earth will just do what it takes to do it. Maybe you didn't know it, but the US government pays farmers to not grow food products. Maybe you didn't know it, but the US government subsidizes farmers who sell their corn to E85 plants, for a fuel we don't need. The whole overpopulation thing is a scam. How much food do you think rots on the docks of foreign ports while the people of those countries starve? It's not a matter of not enough food to go around, it's a matter of grwing and distribution of food. And yes, anyone who claims that we need less people on this earth but won't stand in the line to self-abort to help reduce the number of people here, is a hypocrite. I challenge them to start with themselves.

Well I think that anyone who realizes the problems of the world and knows how to fix them and just stands back and does nothing will receive a greater punishment from God than those who try to do something. Maybe you should get off the computer and get to work. "Sorry God, I was too busy telling people of the food that was spoiled on the docks and calling people hypocrites that I don't know on the computer all day." I am sure that would go well. Have a great day.

[john doe]

How do you know I'm doing nothing? Are you watching me on a webcam? You have no clue what I'm doing, or have done. I'm sorry if the truth hurts so bad, but it's still the truth. You want zero population? Fine, start with yourself.

[NeuroTypical]

Perhaps you should log off and re-evaluate your own conscience and come back when you have something of substance to add.

"Sorry God, I was too busy telling people of the food that was spoiled on the docks and calling people hypocrites that I don't know on the computer all day."

Board rule #2 (Please be respectful and courteous to all) #3 (Personal attacks, name calling, flaming, and judgments against other members will not be tolerated.) and #4 (No bickering and nit-picking toward others.)

YL, could you maybe tone down the personal stuff a bit?

LM

[Gwen]

off topic, every time i read the title of this thread i think of those comercials where they would say "it's 9 o'clock, do you know where your kids are?" lol

[Bookmeister]

So, since we can't have children, and can't afford to adopt, I guess we're going to Hell.

[Canuck Mormon]

off topic, every time i read the title of this thread i think of those commercials where they would say "it's 9 o'clock, do you know where your kids are?" lol

I know where my son is, he's in Florida with his Mom. (insert grumblings of divorced Dad making payments)

Seriously though. Me and my wife have been trying for about a year and if it doesn't happen soon, it won't happen due to our ages (will be a high risk pregnancy). We're fine with that. Are we going to hell? I highly doubt it. What about the singles who had no desire to marry? These are things that will be sorted out in the next life and shouldn't be of concern to us.

[NeuroTypical]

You automatically go to hell for not being able to keep a single commandment?

Oh crap. Guess I'll be joining ya. Maybe you could flameproof a few books first, so we can have something to read?

[Just_A_Guy]

[Warning: Speculation coming.]

My thought is that not all exalted beings are "exalted" to the same degree. The key to exaltation is eternal increase--the faster one increases, the more exalted one is; the greater is one's power and glory (but not knowledge, as per Elder McConkie's "Seven Deadly Heresies").

Brigham Young taught that no one else will build your kingdom for you. Exalted beings who had children in mortality will necessarily have an advantage over those who did not, or those who had fewer children--at least at the outset. But it doesn't mean anyone's "damned". It just means that one person's kingdom might grow faster than another person's kingdom, because of the choices that each person made.

[/speculation]

[bytor2112]

Being a parent gives us a glimpse of how our Heavenly Father can love us all so very much and why families have eternal import to him. I can't imagine someone loving my children more than I do....but he does. I can't imagine my children doing anything that I wouldn't ultimately forgive them for......and that gives me a much better understanding of the Atonement. I would move heaven and earth were it possible to help my children be happy and grow into the kind of adults that Heavenly Father would have them be. It is his "work and glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man", having children, I think gives a greatly needed perspective on how Heavenly Father views us....his children.

So, I think that those who choose to not become parents are depriving themselves of some very rich and rewarding blessings and eternal perspectives on the nature of God. For those unable to be parents.....there will be opportunity to be parents in the millennium.

[Traveler]

The true meaning of repentance it to have a change of heart and see thing in a “new” light. Those that do not want to have children will never have the blessings that children and posterity bring in eternity.

We do not need to give people guild trips. Those that do not wish to have children should not be expected to have children nor should we try to force them to accept our insights on the matter. We can give a good example – sometimes when people see our joy they delight with us. This past weekend a single girl at a ward my wife often visit approached us desiring to know if we had any single sons because they would love to marry into our family. We have two but we suspect that will change in a couple of months. This is not the first time this has happened. BTW our daughters have all married rather quickly after reaching college.

To be honest I cannot understand why anyone would not find joy in their children and grand children as my wife and I have. But if someone does not enjoy children they cannot be forced to. But for me it is without question my greatest joy – no exceptions.

The Traveler

[Moksha]

How do you know I'm doing nothing? Are you watching me on a webcam?

Yes. Could you move a little bit to your left please?

[john doe]

Yes. Could you move a little bit to your left please?

There, is that better?