HBO Recreates Portions of Temple Ceremony

[Stampede]

The Persecutions will come int he forms of freedom of speech, ect... it will be just like the old days but less lethal.

[talisyn]

I remember when the move Dogma came out. I have a lot more sympathy for Catholics now

[Elphaba]

The Persecutions will come int he forms of freedom of speech, ect... it will be just like the old days but less lethal.

People expressing their anger at you is not persecution.

Just because you don't like what they say does not mean they don't have a right to say it.

No one has taken anyone's right to free speech away, regardless of where they come down on the issues.

Elphaba

Edited March 16, 2009 by Elphaba

[Guest Godless]

I remember when the move Dogma came out. I have a lot more sympathy for Catholics now

Lol, I love that movie!

[talisyn]

Lol, I love that movie!

I love that movie too, but I don't think I'm gonna watch it when my fiance is around

[Stampede]

lol, Dogma was a pretty funny movie as well. I sometimes poke fun at our own doctrines as well. like 2 Nephi 9:

51 Wherefore, do not spend money for that which is of no worth, nor your alabor for that which cannot bsatisfy. Hearken diligently unto me, and remember the words which I have spoken; and come unto the Holy One of Israel, and cfeast upon that which perisheth not, neither can be corrupted, and let your soul delight in fatness.

oh i get a kick outta that one.

[Gwen]

poking fun at our doctrines/culture isn't the same thing that is happening with hbo. we poke fun at ourselves all the time on this site. we do not make light of or trivialize our covenants and sacred things. though i don't think we should waste our time writing hbo angry letters i do want to make sure it's clear that the line that has been crossed should not be blurred and thought acceptable in any way.

[lilered]

I took the opportunity last nite of watching Big Love to view for myself the questionable content as it pertains to the Temple Ceremony. I have to say that afterwards I was disheartened and extremly saddened by their insensitivity to something we hold so sacred. They actually showed a portion of the prayer circle, and the complete last portion of the temple endowment at the veil verbatim. As a current Temple Worker, there is a such great emphasis to maintain these endowments and covenants as sacred, reverant, and to practice respect for the entire Temple expierence. To see it displayed to the world was such a feeling of disappointment and sadness.

[aspenmgy]

I watched it as well. Pretty lame if you ask me. They got it right but it still felt so wrong. I don't understand how she was able to get in the temple by borrowing a recommend from her mother/sister....and they were in the temple at the same time with her. Strange.

[Gwen]

i would like to repeat my warning from previous posts in this thread

in my opinion and caution to all of this: we as endowed members need to be very careful getting pulled into this trap. i figure it will be much like the picture already released, some accurate some glaringly wrong..... what tends to happen in those situations is when pointing out that it wasn't 100% accurate like the producers claim it will be ppl will ask.... well what was wrong about it? now not only do you expose what is accurate and what is not you are beguiled into the situation of correcting it. leave them to question what was and was not accurate, it is not for you to correct, do not entertain the conversations. if we play this game we will expose our sacred ordinances more than hbo ever could. in the process you may even break covenants.

my point is this is nothing more than a trap to get us talking...... to get us as close to the line of our covenants as possible..... make something "common" and see if we won't violate our covenants. maybe the producers don't sit around saying "how can i mess with the mormons today" but we do know of someone that does. you can bet his influence is prevalent. the game of mingling fact with fiction has been one of the most successful ploys used since the beginning of time. i will not play. i will not get into a debate as to what is accurate and what is not. i will not discuss the details of the temple on such irreverent terms.

[captmoroniRM]

Agreed. In addition to being a publicity stunt, this is a clever tactic by Satan to get us to reveal aspects of the temple ceremony using a "confirm or deny" tactic. the official Church response to this, is to just ignore it. It is another proverbial attempt to take down a battleship with a bb-gun.

[Book_of_Mormon_Warrior]

I find it ironic that there is such a LDS outcry against this, yet we have seen they gained at least 2 new viewers for the episode... viewers that happen to be outraged LDS.

HBO should send the LDS members a "Thank You" note.

[lusciouschaos]

I was on a public affairs call last night with 40 stakes in CA. We talked briefly about the Big Love. And about political and social attacks on the church.

The answer: Service is our response to the attacks on the church.

We are holding a Mormon Helping Hands service day on April 25th. 94 Stakes in Southern California will be participating. We anticipate about 15-20K volunteers.

I can think of no better way to respond.

[Saguaro]

In addition to being a publicity stunt, this is a clever tactic by Satan to get us to reveal aspects of the temple ceremony using a "confirm or deny" tactic.

A publicity stunt? I agree. In poor taste? Yes. But your argument about Satan trying to trick us into revealing the ceremony doesn't hold water. The temple ceremonies are already public information, all you have to do is search the internet and you can find them posted word for word by former members of the church.

[Maureen]

I saw the Big Love episode last night and from a non-LDS perspective, I thought the Temple scene was lovely. They seemed to have shot parts of it with a soft lens which made the scene look quite heavenly. I have only read transcripts of the Temple ceremony and have never understood why it was so special. But the Big Love episode for me helped me see it in a different light. The actors did an excellent job portraying how special and unique it was. I loved the scene when Barb walked into the Celestial Room and her mom and sister were waiting for her, smiling, and then she smiled back. For someone like me being non-LDS, I thought it was done with taste and respect.

[john doe]

IMPORTANT REMINDER

Let's be careful in this discussion to not talk too much about the specifics of the temple ceremony, which is still sacred even if portions of it have been made public.

[Wingnut]

A publicity stunt? I agree. In poor taste? Yes. But your argument about Satan trying to trick us into revealing the ceremony doesn't hold water. The temple ceremonies are already public information, all you have to do is search the internet and you can find them posted word for word by former members of the church.

From an LDS perspective, I think it's probably safe to say that Satan already has a grasp on those who have left the church and post such things on the Internet. It would please him much more if an active, endowed, covenant-keeping member of the Church faltered by confirming or denying such things.

I saw the Big Love episode last night and from a non-LDS perspective, I thought the Temple scene was lovely. They seemed to have shot parts of it with a soft lens which made the scene look quite heavenly. I have only read transcripts of the Temple ceremony and have never understood why it was so special. But the Big Love episode for me helped me see it in a different light. The actors did an excellent job portraying how special and unique it was. I loved the scene when Barb walked into the Celestial Room and her mom and sister were waiting for her, smiling, and then she smiled back. For someone like me being non-LDS, I thought it was done with taste and respect.

I'm glad to hear that it put things in a positive light for you. I'm not glad it was aired, but I guess a positive thing is that people who saw it maybe are less curious about what happens in the temple and realize that it is sacred, rather than secret.

[omega0401]

In light of what HBO did regarding our sacred ceremonies being shown in public, here is another perspective. At General conference, in October 1984 Elder Bruce R. McConkie, of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles said this…

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—will triumph. In this connection may I set before you this illustration:

The Church is like a great caravan—organized, prepared, following an appointed course, with its captains of tens and captains of hundreds all in place.

What does it matter if a few barking dogs snap at the heels of the weary travelers? Or that predators claim those few who fall by the way? The caravan moves on.

Is there a ravine to cross, a miry mud hole to pull through, a steep grade to climb? So be it. The oxen are strong and the teamsters wise. The caravan moves on.

Are there storms that rage along the way, floods that wash away the bridges, deserts to cross, and rivers to ford? Such is life in this fallen sphere. The caravan moves on.

Ahead is the celestial city, the eternal Zion of our God, where all who maintain their position in the caravan shall find food and drink and rest. Thank God that the caravan moves on!

I have to love the way Elder McConkie expressed it. My brothers and sisters, let’s stay on that caravan and ignore the barking dogs at HBO!

[Moksha]

Here is a post from some anonymous non-member poster at Beliefnet, that shows compassion and understanding toward the LDS Church, after having seen the episode:

I am NOT a LDS member, but rather a Unitarian Universalist seminarian who came to this forum out of a curiosity to see what the response to this controversial episode would be. It is my understanding that the majority of LDS believers find the very concept of Big Love to be offensive but I wanted to pop in here with a quick word of reassurance.

I watched the episode tonight featuring the producers interpretation of your Endowment ceremony. (note I said "interpretation"-- I have no doubt that they got various elements wrong) That said, it seems to me, as an outsider, that your primary concern is with the thought that your sacred rites might be trivialized by those who do not understand what was presented, or by the storyline it was presented within.

As one of those outsiders, I want to say that it was obvious to me that that character of Barb had a deep seated spiritual thirst to be a part of this ceremony and that the threat of losing access to these mysteries and to the community that surrounded them was a terrifying thought to her. I did not perceive any irreverence. Rather, I think it was impressed upon me just how holy these rituals are to the believers and I found it beautiful and moving.

I don't know that my impressions will matter for much, and you have every right to be upset that your innermost church rituals were put on display when you did not wish them to be. But if it helps any to know that, to the non-LDS viewer, the final impression was that of adoration, deep reverence and fulfillment of one (fictional) person's spiritual need at a time of great crisis.

I think that, acknowledging the outrage that this has provoked within your community, the *concept* of this character going to the temple was vital to the plot....even if it might've been preferable that the actual ceremony not be shown...and that the glimpse into what she was losing, and the pain that cost her, gave me a deeper appreciation for the power of your church and it's rituals in your lives.

If anything, it gave me a deeper appreciation for your church. It certainly did not provoke mockery or come across as trivial or silly and, (at least for my husband and I) the result was NOT what you had feared.

What wonderful feedback.

.

[aspenmgy]

I find it ironic that there is such a LDS outcry against this, yet we have seen they gained at least 2 new viewers for the episode... viewers that happen to be outraged LDS.

HBO should send the LDS members a "Thank You" note.

I watched it off the internet. I doubt HBO will be able to count that as a rating.

Before viewing this episode I had considered watching the previous seasons on DVD. After watching "Outer Darkness" I found the show to be nothing but a boring soap opera. So they lost a potential new viewer, they didn't gain one.

pwnd

[Faded]

The entire contents of Temple Ceremonies would hardly give the least pause to anyone. They are all pointed at eternal things. Good things. You could pretty much broadcast the whole works, and I don't think it would do any damage to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. If anything, the average viewer would be shocked by how non-shocking it all is. They would be amazed at how Spiritually positive it all is. They would certainly be surprised at how good everything that happens in the temple is. Perhaps it would be a lot like Catholic Mass -- not easily understood by the uninitiated -- but certainly nothing scandalous whatsoever.

We have nothing to actually FEAR from the entire world knowing every temple ceremony forwards and backwards. There is no reason that we would be afraid of this because there is no terrible thing being hidden. A lot of very symbolic sacred ceremonies, and that's about it.

But here's the key fact on the whole matter.

THAT IS NOT THE POINT.

The reason this is upsetting is because those of us that go to the temple covenant to keep the things we receive there secret, to prove to God Our Father that we can be trusted with his sacred things, and to prove that we will be silent when commanded to be silent. So it is in bad taste to the extreme for HBO to make a television production of any of it. It is making a public spectacle of things that we don't ever talk about at all outside of the Temple, because we are cautious to not violate our covenants with God Our Father. THAT is why it is upsetting. THAT is why it is in poor taste.

Edited March 16, 2009 by Faded

[Book_of_Mormon_Warrior]

I watched it off the internet. I doubt HBO will be able to count that as a rating.

Before viewing this episode I had considered watching the previous seasons on DVD. After watching "Outer Darkness" I found the show to be nothing but a boring soap opera. So they lost a potential new viewer, they didn't gain one.

pwnd

Ah, but you didn't read my post close enough... I said specifically "for THE episode". As I wrote it I thought about how I had to word it to not leave the impression the I believed they gained viewers for the show.

It's very important to carefully read one another's posts.

[Gwen]

has this thread outlived it's usefulness yet????

[john doe]

has this thread outlived it's usefulness yet????

Probably.

[Maureen]

...Before viewing this episode I had considered watching the previous seasons on DVD. After watching "Outer Darkness" I found the show to be nothing but a boring soap opera. So they lost a potential new viewer, they didn't gain one...

Yes it is a soap opera but it is definitely not boring. Of course you're not going to be interested in a show after one episode. Big Love grows on a watcher because you get to know the characters, you find out little tidbits of background information for each character and every so often, crazy dramatic scenes happen that give it that cliff hanger feeling. I like it because it offers a Mormon-ness story because I am familiar with the terminology and history. I have no particular affection for polygamy in general but I love this particular polygamous family because they are fascinating and their interconnected relationships are touching and thoughtful. Big Love is a series that must be watched from the beginning to really appreciate its strange sweetness.

M.