Why why why

[hordak]

In other words, without the bias of theological theories one could reach certain conclusions that are closer to LDS theology than main stream Christianity.

I think it would really be hit and miss. Your example of the God head yes. A reading the bible without "religious training" does seem(to me) to indicate the father and son are different people. However much of the "unconventional" LDS doctrine doesn't come from the scriptures but from the Prophets teachings. Follow the Prophet is "religions training" and without it I don't think a reading of the Bible and BoM would lead one to the same doctrine the LDS church teaches today. Actually you can see that with both book and the same start the Mormons

as a whole can't come to the same conclusions. I.E. FDLS, LDS, Comunity of Christ etc.

[Islander]

I think it would really be hit and miss. Your example of the God head yes. A reading the bible without "religious training" does seem(to me) to indicate the father and son are different people. However much of the "unconventional" LDS doctrine doesn't come from the scriptures but from the Prophets teachings. Follow the Prophet is "religions training" and without it I don't think a reading of the Bible and BoM would lead one to the same doctrine the LDS church teaches today. Actually you can see that with both book and the same start the Mormons

as a whole can't come to the same conclusions. I.E. FDLS, LDS, Comunity of Christ etc.

I can see your point, but I was rather referring to using the bible as a primer and introduction to religion. Free from theological bias, LDS doctrine has a wide avenue of possibilities, which are closed (bias) for those adhering to garden variety Christian theologies.

Issues like:

-revelation

-prophets

-prophesy

-temples

-the diaspora

-baptism

-authority

they come across in the bible as being very real and possible. Traditional Christianity has deemed those closed off and no longer relevant.

[Guest missingsomething]

I have come to just IGNORE those people!

[Iggy]

With the advanced technology that counterfeiters have at their disposal, the fancy pen is rendered almost useless these days. Therefore we have to dig a little deeper to validate that the bill we are accepting is valid or not. I know, I manage a convenience store.

The same with our testimonies or with those questioning I suppose. We have to dig a little deeper to find truth and understanding. I still have my why questions but many insights have made some things clearer to me today.

The quickest way to tell if a bill is real - scrape the pic of the pres against white paper. The ink will rub off.

Regarding Pam's original questions of WHY?

May I add: Why do we continue to beat our heads against their brick walls in answering them again, and again? Of all the Moderators that are on this forum, don't some of them have the task of stopping the repetative threads?

I agree with the poster that we should have a FAQ section and they should be referred there.

Edited March 9, 2009 by Iggy

[Moksha]

This is no different from the borrower's responsibility to repay the loan with good money in the first place.

Elphaba

Also, currency and exchange rates are set ahead of time.

:)

[Moksha]

Pam, to your original questions, I don't know. But I do suspect that it is why we have seen several of our finest members leave as of late. I also see it being the reason that many more may still leave. It just isn't fun or pleasant anymore.

Hey, I am having fun. There have also been a number of reasons people have left:

1. Tightening time constraints

2. Realizing they have neglected other aspects of their life

3. Life changes

4. Feeling under-appreciated

5. Being banned.

However, people do sometimes walk away when they find they are unable to cope with what is around them. Let's just hope that everybody has good coping skills. :)

[Michael_Newman]

Pam, to your original questions, I don't know. But I do suspect that it is why we have seen several of our finest members leave as of late. I also see it being the reason that many more may still leave. It just isn't fun or pleasant anymore.

As I suggested earlier, sometimes our priesthood leaders will advise us to stay away from areas where "contention is the Post of the Day." Although the Holy Ghost cannot witness to a web page and those who do not have the Holy Ghost, the Holy Ghost can witness to the members who are in the midst of reading and typing.

For me, I am picking and choosing the topics (by their titles) to either read or respond. If it becomes too much of a burden with contentious remarks - then I will stop participating in those type of topics and choose another area of this website.

All my best,

Michael

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS)

Choose to experience the presence of the Holy Ghost.

Attend your Local LDS Chapel: Click here

[Michael_Newman]

Why do we continue to beat our heads against their brick walls in answering them again, and again? Of all the Moderators that are on this forum, don't some of them have the task of stopping the repetitive threads?

Yes, the Administrator of this forum has the software tool to ADD a new Primary User Group which would automatically place all New Threads authored by certain members into what is termed as "Moderation".

Once this has been installed, then the specific members of this forum who have a habit of starting New Threads of a repetitive nature will be placed automatically in a holding queue where no one can new the New Thread except a Moderator. The Moderator can then review the New Thread by that member, and make a determination to either approve the final posting or to archive it.

(As an Administrator on another forum site, I can tell you we use this option as a temporary solution until the member stops authoring repetitive topics, or topics that are designed to bait other members into a contentious argument for no other purpose then the demean them)

In addition, all Moderators have a Moderation Feature available to them on every post by every member. Although non-Moderators cannot see the tool feature, it is used by placing a check in the small box to the far right of a members post, and then scrolling down the Thread page to a drop-down menu titled Moderation. From there, the Moderator would choose the option titled Unapprove Posts.

Michael

[RainofGold]

pam,

i feel the same way, when i joined last year i thought this was going to be a like a heaven for us where we could "meet" and chat. But it has been everything but that.

I really don't feel the same enthusiasm as i did at the beginning.

I find myself visiting less and less.

I'm glad that you said it so well for a lot of us that feel the same way...

Thanks, rain

[jadams_4040]

I want to know why.

It seems lately we spend so much time on this website having to defend the beliefs that we hold.

Why do some come here to ask questions but have stipulations as to what our answers can be?

Why even ask them then?

Why do we have to "prove" our testimony?

Why are we not allowed to have faith that things are true without tangible evidence?

Why when asked what we think we are being saved from; every response has to be debated?

Why do people come to an LDS website to ask questions but don't want an LDS perspective?

Why do people say "I don't mean to bash your religion" when really that's all they come here to do?

Okay so I guess my point is: You are at an LDS website. While we love and respect those of other faiths...this is still a website based on LDS beliefs. If you don't want an LDS perspective...perhaps this isn't the site for you.

I beleive most of them are sincerly convinced they are doing missionary service for the lord.:)

[Michael_Newman]

It is because the Holy Ghost does not communicate on the internet. The Spirit is only present in person. And it is the Spirit that needs to bear testimony to a visitor and not rhetoric, debate, or factual texts.

If this forum can lead visitors to attend a local activity which can lead to Missionary discussions, and to have the Holy Ghost present - then this forum will serve a greater purpose.

Michael,

http://www.lds.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=9&pictureid=79

Encyclopedia of Mormonism Link

I know what your saying but i think the Millions of members who spend "all" weekend at church for General conference might disagree.

Sorry Hordak,

But I think you missed my point. Allow me to offer more clarity:

Joseph Smith taught that the influence of the Holy Ghost, which is the convincing power of God of the truth of the gospel, can be received before baptism. But the Gift of the Holy Ghost, or constant companionship, which comes by the laying-on of hands, is obtained only after baptism.

If faithful members and visitors gather together for a weekend of General Conference broadcast, they can experience the Holy Ghost among themselves within the confines of the chapel which is showing the broadcast.

If only one member watches the broadcast on their laptop, they too can experience the Holy Ghost.

If a non-member watches a broadcast or reads a web page, they can experience at least the Light of Christ which is given to all, or the Holy Ghost if testifying to the truth of the gospel.

However, I am confident that if someone were to view or read contentious comments within the core of a worthy topic, then the Holy Ghost may remove itself at the moment. To invoke the Holy Ghost in the opening post of a new topic would be, in my opinion, without merit.

Thank you for mentioning the comment,

Michael

[Guest tomk]

I want to know why.

It seems lately we spend so much time on this website having to defend the beliefs that we hold.

Yep, except I am not sure you or anyone HAS to. We CHOOSE to.

Why do some come here to ask questions but have stipulations as to what our answers can be?

Because they are not ready or willing to receive the answer they know we are about to give.

Why even ask them then?

They want tangible proof before they will believe.

Why do we have to "prove" our testimony?

We don't. That is the job of the Holy Ghost.

Why are we not allowed to have faith that things are true without tangible evidence?

We are given evidence. The witness of the Spirit is our evidence. The fact that naysayers feel otherwise does not mean the witness was not real.

Why when asked what we think we are being saved from; every response has to be debated?

Some people like to debate things. Depending on how it is done, it can be godly. Unfortunately, we get our feelings hurt, take offense, and then the conversation quickly deteriorates.

Why do people come to an LDS website to ask questions but don't want an LDS perspective?

Some are wolves in sheep's clothing.

Some of them already know what we are going to say, but they have an agenda they are pursuing.

Some don't like our answer because it incriminates them.

Why do people say "I don't mean to bash your religion" when really that's all they come here to do?

For the same reason that Simon on "American Idol" says "not that I'm being rude" right before he says something rude.

Okay so I guess my point is: You are at an LDS website. While we love and respect those of other faiths...this is still a website based on LDS beliefs. If you don't want an LDS perspective...perhaps this isn't the site for you.

Agreed! This may not be the site for some people.

But there are some genuine investigators, also. We keep coming back for them.

Unfortunately, we cannot detect, ahead of time, which ones are the sharks and which ones are the guppies. But I've noticed that it does not take very long before their true colors show through (interesting).

pam:

I've noticed that you seem to feel some exasperation.

I feel it to. I have posted similar posts in this and on other sites.

It is why patience and longsuffering are listed as two of the attributes of Christ we are to seek. Patience can't mature without opportunities to BE PATIENT!! Longsuffering cannot develop if we are never placed in situations where LONGSUFFERING is needed!

Every day we arise from our slumber. With the dawning of the day is a new opportunity to repent and do better! Let's resolve (and I mean WE, not you ... but ALL of us on LDS .NET) to field the questions we receive with patience, longsuffering, kindness and love.

Let us remember Elder Bednar's counsel about acting ... not being acted upon.

We cannot GIVE offense. We can only CHOOSE to take offense!! And it is a choice we make to be offended!

I hope these words are received as intended. I mean no offense. Please take none!

Love,

Your Brother,

tomk

[pam]

No offense taken at all Tom. I do feel a bit frustrated lately. I see where this site can do so much. I see it as a place where we can share our testimonies. That we can learn from each other about the Gospel. Where investigators can come and also feel the Spirit. Where those who are sincerely here to inquire about our beliefs can get truthful answers.

I've said this before. I have been a member all my life but yet I still have so much to learn. I've learned so much from so many of the people that have posted here. I hope to learn even more. I just get frustrated when we are asked questions...why they have to be debated so much. If you are going to ask a question about an LDS perspective on an lds website...expect LDS answers. It's a very simple concept.

[lusciouschaos]

Pam,

I so appreciate your post. When I see a thread asking lots of specific doctrinal questions that are clearly wired for contention it is frustrating, especially when the author states that they haven't gotten around to praying or reading the Book of Mormon.

One upside for me personally is the increased desire I feel to seek the Spirit in understanding how to present gospel truth. We have the opportunity to bring the clarity of the gospel to light in our communication. And once we have spoken the truth and testified to what we know, we have done our part.

These days I find an increase in the opportunities "to stand" and as I respond, which often requires moving outside my comfort zone, I have felt my own testimony strengthen and my "confidence wax strong."

Bless you in your efforts as I have no doubt of the influence you have on others, often because in reading your posts I feel the Spirit confirm gospel truth.

[applepansy]

No offense taken at all Tom. I do feel a bit frustrated lately. I see where this site can do so much. I see it as a place where we can share our testimonies. That we can learn from each other about the Gospel. Where investigators can come and also feel the Spirit. Where those who are sincerely here to inquire about our beliefs can get truthful answers.

I've said this before. I have been a member all my life but yet I still have so much to learn. I've learned so much from so many of the people that have posted here. I hope to learn even more. I just get frustrated when we are asked questions...why they have to be debated so much. If you are going to ask a question about an LDS perspective on an lds website...expect LDS answers. It's a very simple concept.

In these last days we feel more opposition than ever before and its not going to get easier. I have felt the frustration you have expressed in recent days/weeks. I have been more careful which threads I respond to.

I knew when I joined that there would be contention. That there would be people who came here to stir up the Mormons. The best thing we can do is calmly state our beliefs and let it go at that. Last fall we had another of these "Why do LDS believe ...." threads. I stated my opinion, explained my opinion and then realized the OP was just looking to distract me. My final post in the thread was you asked for my opinion, this is my opinion, the end, and I didn't go back to the thread except to read what others were saying.

A new thing I will be doing when I log in to lds.net is start with a prayer. I need my Heavenly Father's help to know where and how I should bear my testimony. Since I decided to do this I've been more at peace. If I forget to pray before logging in I don't post much or engage in the threads asking for questions that fit within their parameters, or asking for confirmation that their way is better than the Lord's way. I will not be drawn into long drawn out arguments about what I believe anymore. I will however support those who are bearing their testimonies and teaching correct principles.

I love your posts Pam. You are wonderful. Hang in there.

applepansy

[talisyn]

I was so happy when I found this site, and that hasn't changed. If you want to feel better try talking rationally to the people on the Myspace religion forum.

[beefche]

Warning!!!! I'm going to start this post with those much hated words....

When I was on my mission, I was in a discussion with someone who initially indicated that he genuinely wanted to know more. As my companion and I began the discussion, he asked some questions that we answered. Then, something changed. His questions became more pointed and delivered in a harsher voice. He never yelled, but it was apparent that he no longer wanted to know truth, but rather wanted to trip us up, confuse us, or simply intimidate us. I never knew his motives and frankly don't care. All I knew was that the Spirit whispered to me to simply let him rant. I sat there with a slight smile on my face. I wasn't laughing at him...I simply try to keep a smile on my face even when doing nothing. When he finished, I simply stated that I don't believe that and thanked him for his time.

What I learned from this experience is that I don't have to defend the Church. I don't have to defend my testimony. I have a responsibility to bear my testimony and correct errors. I will stand in defense of the Church when called upon. But nothing I say or do will ever "defend" the Church and it's beginning. Why? Because some people don't want real answers. They don't want to hear our truth. They want to argue, fight, prove a point, whatever. I am reminded of Jesus when there were times that he was questioned and He "answered not". It's apparent from those events that there are times to simply not say anything at all. I always assume to asker is genuine and truly wants to know...until it's proven otherwise. Then I just stop. Unless the Spirit directs me otherwise, I will not answer.

[pam]

When I was on my mission

Okay I couldn't help but laugh. Sorry.

[Islander]

I do have to admit that I am, of all of you my brothers and sisters, the least patient. I can smell the drones that come to the site before they turn on their computers at home so by the time they press enter on their post I have them on the hair cross.

I struggle with long suffering since I tend to try and kill the suffering as soon as I can. What is the point if the other party is intent in making me suffer. Why should I ahve to put up with it....kind of my reasoning.

I struggle with the "mission" of the forum and the means to accomplish such. But I think I am getting better. My wife believes I am improving...since she can see me write a post 4-5 times just to make sure I don't get banned. Some things take time...and patience...and longsuffering....

Love you all.

[Wingnut]

Warning!!!! I'm going to start this post with those much hated words....

When I was on my mission,...

Hahaha...thanks for the laugh to lighten up the thread!

What I learned from this experience is that I don't have to defend the Church. I don't have to defend my testimony. I have a responsibility to bear my testimony and correct errors. I will stand in defense of the Church when called upon. But nothing I say or do will ever "defend" the Church and it's beginning. Why? Because some people don't want real answers. They don't want to hear our truth. They want to argue, fight, prove a point, whatever. I am reminded of Jesus when there were times that he was questioned and He "answered not". It's apparent from those events that there are times to simply not say anything at all. I always assume to asker is genuine and truly wants to know...until it's proven otherwise. Then I just stop. Unless the Spirit directs me otherwise, I will not answer.

This reminds me of the talk at the last Conference about "Christian courage" wherein it was mentioned that sometimes the courageous thing to do is to do nothing.

[beefche]

Okay I couldn't help but laugh. Sorry.

I did mean it as a warning 'cause there are some that get their panties in a twist when they hear those words....but I laughed just writing them...

[pam]

I need to find that talk online then. I would like to read it.

[pam]

I did mean it as a warning 'cause there are some that get their panties in a twist when they hear those words....but I laughed just writing them...

I wonder who that could be?

[Guest tomk]

No offense taken at all Tom. I do feel a bit frustrated lately. I see where this site can do so much. I see it as a place where we can share our testimonies. That we can learn from each other about the Gospel. Where investigators can come and also feel the Spirit. Where those who are sincerely here to inquire about our beliefs can get truthful answers.

I've said this before. I have been a member all my life but yet I still have so much to learn. I've learned so much from so many of the people that have posted here. I hope to learn even more. I just get frustrated when we are asked questions...why they have to be debated so much. If you are going to ask a question about an LDS perspective on an lds website...expect LDS answers. It's a very simple concept.

Well said, I could not agree more!

[Elphaba]

I don't think we need a FAQ section. Just post a link to FAIR, and tell the poster to take the questions there. If the poster doesn't, then you know the purpose in coming to this board is not to genuinely learn about the gospel.

Obviously it is not a perfect solution, and some may fall through the cracks. But if the poster is motivated to discover answers, she/he will keep at it.

Given FAIR has already created an extensive apologetics board, I just don't see any reason to re-create one here.

Elphaba