To tuck? Or not to tuck...

[RachelleDrew]

I never thought I would live to see the day when I regretted losing weight.

However, my son is going to be one in a couple of weeks, and I finally got off all the baby weight I gained with him, and then some. 77 lbs in 6 months, gone. I made a post about my struggle with post-baby weight last year. In a way i'm proud, and I know I am healthier physically, but I look disgusting.

I have skin hanging from my arms and my stomach. Also under my chin. It's not fat, just loose skin. I'm 21 years old and I wear support hose just to hold in the empty folds. It's embarrassing, and nasty. I cannot wear short sleeved shirts because you can see the folds hanging down. I know people stare at the loose skin, I can literally feel their eyes on me.

I don't want to spend the money now, even though we could afford it. I want to wait until i'm finished with college just to be absolutely sure we don't spend money we don't have. But I would gladly wait to get rid of this skin. My husband has no problem me doing it, and i've been to a consultation with a friend of mine who is a plastic surgeon but there are some issues.

I know this is awful, but I despise being unattractive, this has been my attitude since I was very small. My friend/plastic surgeon warned me that this attitude alone doesn't make me an ideal candidate for these procedures. He would still do it because he is a friend of mine, but has turned away women like me before. Those are the women that wind up surgery addicts.

Another issue: I know that it is useless to get the surgeries right now, because if I have another child it's going to happen again and it will just be a waste. So I have to make the choice of looking decent, versus having more children and looking gross. To be frank, i've been warned not to have any more children anyway due to severe health issues, and I had no intention of trying after so many doctors warned me against it. But at only 21 I couldn't get sterilized anyway. So the possibility of having another kid is still there, even if i'm trying to avoid it. So there is that too.

The biggest issue is that I have no idea where the church stands on cosmetic surgery. No one has been able to give me an absolute answer until this point.

I've been told to pray about it, and I certainly have. But lets be honest here, i'm so desperate for these procedures that all i've heard in response to my prayers are "yes". Who can say if that is just wishful thinking on my part, or if that is the true response of the spirit? I can't trust myself enough to go off prayer at this point.

I'd like some different points of view. Any thoughts or resources regarding the church's stance?

[Wingnut]

My initial thought was to say at least to wait until you are done having children, but then you acknowledged and addressed that issue. You lay out an interesting position. I don't think anyone wants to be unattractive, but we all have different thresholds of how far we're willing to go in order to rectify that. You imply that you are concerned you might become a plastic surgery addict.

I think I disagree with you there.

You are considering plastic surgery, not just for the fun of it, or because you have money to blow, or even just because you want bigger breasts (or a better fill-in-the-blank). I think it makes perfect sense that at 21 years old, you don't want "Relief Society arms" or the "afterwave." Why look 40+ before your time? (No offense to the 40+ women on here, especially the in-shape ones.) It just makes sense that you would be considering it.

From everything I've seen you post on these boards, I can tell you're a smart woman and that you usually tend to see the big picture. So you already know that this isn't a decision to make lightly. I would definitely continue to pray about it before you go forward.

There were a couple of talks in the October 2005 General Conference that might be helpful. I've got links and an excerpt from each:

I am troubled by the practice of extreme makeovers. Happiness comes from accepting the bodies we have been given as divine gifts and enhancing our natural attributes, not from remaking our bodies after the image of the world. The Lord wants us to be made over—but in His image, not in the image of the world, by receiving His image in our countenances. (The Sanctity of the Body)

In terms of preoccupation with self and a fixation on the physical, this is more than social insanity; it is spiritually destructive, and it accounts for much of the unhappiness women, including young women, face in the modern world. And if adults are preoccupied with appearance—tucking and nipping and implanting and remodeling everything that can be remodeled—those pressures and anxieties will certainly seep through to children. At some point the problem becomes what the Book of Mormon called "vain imaginations." And in secular society both vanity and imagination run wild. One would truly need a great and spacious makeup kit to compete with beauty as portrayed in media all around us. Yet at the end of the day there would still be those "in the attitude of mocking and pointing their fingers" as Lehi saw, because however much one tries in the world of glamour and fashion, it will never be glamorous enough. (To Young Women)

[Guest Alana]

There are major risks, of course. I doubt the church has a absolute stance on this. There are several women in my ward with breast enhancements. If you have this done and it will negatively affect your decision to have children in the future, I would wait. Having children change our bodies, I know, I'm a candidate for a tummy tuck myself! You don't sound absolutely sure that you don't want to have an other child. Give yourself some time. Like you said, you want to wait until after college. Perhaps make when you turn 25 you time to reevaluate if you still want this, or a similar way to take off the pressure from yourself right now.

[Kirajo]

Is having breast enhancement surgery against the church?

[winniemae]

Having owned a facility where we did weight counseling, we often found the women who were most concerned about the visual side, rather than the health side, of weight loss were the ones who had doubts about how attractive their husbands found them to be. You said your husband had no problem with your having the procedures, but my question would be whether you think he wants you to have it because you're not attractive to him. This may take some deep and honest evaluation on your part. If you do this just to please someone else, you may have some repercussions. What if he doesn't respond as you expect? Will you then do just as your doctor warns is possible? Will you want to do more until you reach that perfection you want from someone else? And, if he responds with alot of enthusiasm, will you wonder if he JUST loves you for your body and not yourself? This may not pertain to you at all, but I believe it is worth looking at before you make a decision.

In general. If one lost a breast to cancer, I do not believe Heavenly Father would be the least bit opposed to them having surgery to rectify a loss; If one had breast surgery just to be more alluring to others - they might be placing too much emphasis on worldly opinion and run the risk of getting caught up in something that is detrimental to themselves. As with most things, it is the intent that is most important.

[Iggy]

Exercise. Grab a can of soup per arm and exercise with them. In a week, get larger cans. Do sits ups, bend from the waist and touch your fingers to the floor.

Honestly, just give it time. Your skin will eventually shrink up- most especially if you do exercises.

There is a woman in my ward who had the gastric bypass surgery. In a year she had lost 300 pounds! Her neck, upper arms, belly and upper legs were awful- all this skin just hanging there.

No way could she afford surgery- she exercised - in 18 months she is now firm.No sagging, dragging skin.

[Gillebre]

I'd say that if you want a definitive answer, one way or the other, from prayer, you need to clear your head of every idea you have in your noggin.

Get rid of the fact, at least for the moment, that you want to be without the excess skin, etc., and just meditate in prayer with Heavenly Father. I promise you that if you put every concern you have, put it aside so that it won't influence the answer you get, or at least your recognition of the answer.

I didn't mean to sound harsh or unsympathetic in my response. If I did, I am sorry. :)

But the point is, if you put everything aside, and pray humbly and completely, you will know what He wants for you. Maybe He's not going to tell you yes, or no. Maybe He'll leave it up to you to decide.

Furthermore, from reading talks on my own time about body enhancements/surgeries for cosmetics, etc... you do not fit the bill, in my opinion. I mean that you're not really going after the world by getting the extra tucked in, not imo. While it is a somewhat superficial concern, from some points of view, I think Heavenly Father will support you in the choice you make, as long as you don't cross a line and get work done 'just because you can'. Pray, my friend..you will have comfort, at the very least, by the Holy Ghost's companionship as you make this decision with your husband (maybe you can attend the temple with him, if possible..meditate together or pray together there...that might be something you could try. :))

[WillowTheWhisp]

I have loose skin and no amount of excercise will shift it. Skin doesn't have muscles in it. I'm amazed at the story of the woman who excercised away her loose skin. All doctors and dieticians have told me that is impossible. I have lost some weight but still have some to go so right now the idea of surgery for me is not an option - yet. But even now I am suffering discomfort from the folds of surplus stomach skin and by the time I have lost the rest of the weight this is going to make it even more uncomfortable just to walk let alone anything else. I can actually hear the folds flapping and slapping against my legs and they chafe and sweat in warm conditions. I amcertainly going to be talking to my doctor about it in a little while.

Don't anybody try to tell me that wanting surgery is vanity and on a par with people who have face lifts when they are already beautiful. To me it is equivalent to someone wanting a breast implant when they have had one breast surgically removed due to cancer or an accident or something. It isn't wrong for someone born with a harelip to have corrective surgery is it? Or how about people with crooked teeth having braces to straighten them? But that is changeing 'the way God made them'. I think common sense has to come into this. If it isn't broken don't fix it - but skin stretched and deformed by excessive weight gain does in my opinion come under the heading of something broken which needs fixing.

It may be that youthful skin still has enough elasticity in it to shrink back after some weight loss with excercise but by my age when wrinkles and bags have already begun to form then I know mine hasn't got the ability to do that on its own.

If someone wanted to change their appearance because they think bigger breasts or wider eyes or a different shaped chin or nose would make them more attractive then I would say no don't do that. Don't change who you are. But wanting to put right somethng which has gone wrong is different IMO - just as reconstructive surgey is used for burns victims. We wouldn't deny themthat would we?

[Kirajo]

What if it IS straight up because she doesn't feel happy with herself looking that way? Sure, saggy droopy skin doesn't necessary pose great medical risks all the time. But are we not suppose to take care of our bodies and represent ourselves well? I say if it is damaging her self esteem that badly and she would honestly feel more of a motivated, healthy person that she is and wants to portray, she should take the proper steps to do it!

Maybe talk to your bishop to express your concern about it to him is a better idea though than to ask a room full of opinionated ramblers hahah! He is given the ability to recieve revelation to help those in need and those who are struggling and come to him seeking advice. Go for it! :)

About the breast enhancement surgery..I don't know how I feel about that one. On one hand I absolutely agree that it should be done only if it's medically an option (ie; breast removed, deformed after complications, ect.) But then on the other hand, a marriage who's intimacy is suffering because of severe lack of self esteem may or may not be improved with self improvement. But then I also think that self esteem doesn't have to be "boosted" by surgery either! Haha, I don't know. Slippery slope on that one but I am definitely not quick to judge an LDS woman who has them.

[hordak]

Plastic surgery is a tricky issue. I read a few time (i admit i can't find the source now, just a bunch of ads) that Utah was number 1 in plastic surgery per capita in the USA. So appearently it isn't that uncomen among members.

I think it really depends on your personal view of council vs Prophecy and the spirit of the law.If you believe wearing 2 pair of earrings is wrong via prophesy. Then it would stand to reason risking your life to have extensive surgery to look good or fit in would fall in the spirit of the law. Obviously there would be room for "necessary" surgery, I.E. cleft palits and other deformities.

However IMO that statement is council and therefor just advice that may or may not apply to you and has no baring on salvation. So plastic surgery would be between you and God.

I would wait till you are finished having kids if you decide to do it.

[BenRaines]

Anyone who has been or lived in Las Vegas would take issue that Utah is the #1 state for augmentation. I was amazed at the amount that goes on there and even more shocked among the LDS women.

Augmentation and other types of enhancement has been talked about in general terms in General Conference a year or two ago. I can't remember if it was Elder Holland or Elder Oakes. I think Elder Holland.

Ben Raines

[WillowTheWhisp]

Taken to a wild extreme, not changing our appearance would result in all men having long beards and men and women with hair down to their ankles. (apart from the bald ones)

[Moksha]

In the meantime, water aerobics and weight lifting will help tone and tighten your skin - especially since it is 21 year old skin.

[Wingnut]

Anyone who has been or lived in Las Vegas would take issue that Utah is the #1 state for augmentation. I was amazed at the amount that goes on there and even more shocked among the LDS women.

Augmentation and other types of enhancement has been talked about in general terms in General Conference a year or two ago. I can't remember if it was Elder Holland or Elder Oakes. I think Elder Holland.

Ben Raines

It was Elder Holland and Sister Tanner. See my post on page 1. :)

[WillowTheWhisp]

We all do enhance our appearance though don't we? Particulary women. How many of us never go to a hairdresser? How about make-up? I see sisters in Stake callings wearing make-up. I see sisters at the Temple wearing make-up. I see sisters in General Presidency callings wearing make-up. It's an enhancement on what God gave us though isn't it? Yet when someone doesn't 'do her face' others remark that she has 'let herself go'.

[lilered]

It seems to me that the crux of your question lies in whether or not you plan on having any more children. If you decide to not have anymore because you desire instead to have plastic surgery etc., then that seems to me to be counter to what God would want you to do. We are told to "multiply and replenish the earth". If you seek to have the surgery to feed your vanity, that too would be counter to what God would want. I would counsel you to fast and pray and examine your true motives at this time, for wanting the surgery. I know of several moms that have been cautioned for one reason or another not to have any more children. Most however, decided to continue, because the simply desired more. I believe if you honestly fast and pray about this, you will receive your answer. Good Luck.

[RachelleDrew]

It seems to me that the crux of your question lies in whether or not you plan on having any more children. If you decide to not have anymore because you desire instead to have plastic surgery etc., then that seems to me to be counter to what God would want you to do. We are told to "multiply and replenish the earth". If you seek to have the surgery to feed your vanity, that too would be counter to what God would want. I would counsel you to fast and pray and examine your true motives at this time, for wanting the surgery. I know of several moms that have been cautioned for one reason or another not to have any more children. Most however, decided to continue, because the simply desired more. I believe if you honestly fast and pray about this, you will receive your answer. Good Luck.

Thank you everyone for your insights.

As for the children issue, i'm not sure if I put it the right way in my initial post. We have made a final decision to not have any more children, and we did so just prior to my son being born under the advice of our doctors. So that was a decision made before this issue arose.

However, at 21 years old the doctors that are covered by our insurance will not do a sterilization of myself or my husband. Therefore, even if we try our very hardest to not get pregnant, there is still a chance we could get pregnant. I did get pregnant with my last son while on the shot which is one of the most effective methods of birth control.

So, that's why that is an issue. I just wanted to clear that up.

I do appreciate the feedback, and i'll post again when there isn't toddler trying to eat my laptop.

[Islander]

Thank you everyone for your insights.

As for the children issue, i'm not sure if I put it the right way in my initial post. We have made a final decision to not have any more children, and we did so just prior to my son being born under the advice of our doctors. So that was a decision made before this issue arose.

However, at 21 years old the doctors that are covered by our insurance will not do a sterilization of myself or my husband. Therefore, even if we try our very hardest to not get pregnant, there is still a chance we could get pregnant. I did get pregnant with my last son while on the shot which is one of the most effective methods of birth control.

So, that's why that is an issue. I just wanted to clear that up.

I do appreciate the feedback, and i'll post again when there isn't toddler trying to eat my laptop.

Obviously the issue is a lot more complex than what meets the eye. It seems your bias is in favor of the surgery, regardless of what the doctors have suggested. Only a handful of very severe chronic conditions could prompt the physician to advise against another pregnancy. The fact that you did not articulated that on your OP as one of the reasons for going after the surgery given your recent weight loss, also leads me to conclude that you more or less made up your mind on the issue.

[WillowTheWhisp]

She did explain in the first post that she had been advised not to have more children.

. To be frank, i've been warned not to have any more children anyway due to severe health issues, and I had no intention of trying after so many doctors warned me against it. But at only 21 I couldn't get sterilized anyway. So the possibility of having another kid is still there, even if i'm trying to avoid it. So there is that too.

It's just a contradictory shame that although doctors advise you not to get pregnant they will not offer sterilisation as an option.

As for the suggestion to ignore that advice and have children anyway because "God has commanded us to replenish the earth" I would seriously suggest ignore that kind of advice as being a little naive under the circumstances. God does not tell us to have babies at the risk of our own health and well-being.

[Wingnut]

We all do enhance our appearance though don't we? Particulary women. How many of us never go to a hairdresser? How about make-up? I see sisters in Stake callings wearing make-up. I see sisters at the Temple wearing make-up. I see sisters in General Presidency callings wearing make-up. It's an enhancement on what God gave us though isn't it? Yet when someone doesn't 'do her face' others remark that she has 'let herself go'.

I've heard comparisons like this in the past, and while I mean no offense toward you, I find them absurd. Makeup can be washed off at the end of the day. A hair style grows back.

It's not an accurate comparison to voluntary plastic surgery, which is a permanent alteration.

Obviously the issue is a lot more complex than what meets the eye. It seems your bias is in favor of the surgery, regardless of what the doctors have suggested. Only a handful of very severe chronic conditions could prompt the physician to advise against another pregnancy. The fact that you did not articulated that on your OP as one of the reasons for going after the surgery given your recent weight loss, also leads me to conclude that you more or less made up your mind on the issue.

She did mention it, and I thought it was pretty clear.

It's just a contradictory shame that although doctors advise you not to get pregnant they will not offer sterilisation as an option.

My guess is that it's probably a policy set up by the practice to not sterilize anyone under the age of ____. If having another child or another pregnancy would threaten her life, however, they will certainly advise her not to do that.

[Vort]

I'd like some different points of view. Any thoughts or resources regarding the church's stance?

No idea on the Church's stance -- frankly, I'd be surprised if it HAD a stance on this issue -- but I can certainly give you my point of view. :)

Give it two years and see what happens. Skin is an absolutely amazing organ. You will likely find that much of your "loose" skin folds tighten right up if you just stay in shape and give it time. I would not be a bit surprised if, six months to a year from now, you find that your skin once again fits you perfectly.

Of course, it's possible that some extra skin might remain even after a year or two. If that's the case, then in my opinion there is nothing overly vain or sinful about having it excised. However, if you were my wife, I'd advise against it and ask you not to do it, since I don't believe it's worth the surgical risk.

[Dravin]

Therefore, even if we try our very hardest to not get pregnant, there is still a chance we could get pregnant.

Technically not true, but I imagine if you did your very hardest (abstinence) your relationship as a married couple would suffer, so I certainly don't blame you for not going that route.

[RachelleDrew]

Obviously the issue is a lot more complex than what meets the eye. It seems your bias is in favor of the surgery, regardless of what the doctors have suggested. Only a handful of very severe chronic conditions could prompt the physician to advise against another pregnancy. The fact that you did not articulated that on your OP as one of the reasons for going after the surgery given your recent weight loss, also leads me to conclude that you more or less made up your mind on the issue.

I DID articulate it in my first post, I just re-articulated it in the response because some people missed it. My mind is not made up on the issue, and based on what a few people have posted i'm leaning against it.

Everyone in this thread has posted helpful information or thoughts, be it either for or against the idea. You, on the other hand question my intentions and imply that either my doctors or myself are lying about refraining from having more children. This seems to be a trend in your posts, and leads me to conclude that you more or less make up your mind before thoroughly reading anything.

For the ones asking about the sterilization, the hospital in question is St. Francis. They will do tubals or vasectomies in certain situations (very, very rare) but certainly not on a 21 year old girl. They wouldn't perform a vasectomy on my father when he was 50 years old and had three kids.

I don't have a problem paying for the procedure entirely, but my health insurance is supposed to change next year and give me more options.

Vort: My husband was concerned about the risks, but to be frank i'm not sure how much he knows about the surgery. Otherwise I don't know how comfortable he would be. I've asked him to talk with my friend/doctor to get a better idea of how it works and what the risks are, I don't want him giving me the go-ahead without fully understanding the issues.

[RachelleDrew]

Technically not true, but I imagine if you did your very hardest (abstinence) your relationship as a married couple would suffer, so I certainly don't blame you for not going that route.

I thought maybe that was understood without me saying it. I don't think I could last more than two weeks without going insane.

We are using condoms too at the moment, but that's getting old. I'd love to be able to have relations with my husband without annoyance. But that's what we're doing until one of us is fixed.

[gabelpa]

I may have missed something, as I haven't read through the thread in it's entirety. We're at the stage of deciding if this'll be our last kid. Aside from condoms (We're of the same opinion), there's numerous variants of "the pill" and a male contraceptive pill is in the works, but not effective, and with too many side effects at last count. There are also some implants that are not major surgical procedures, including IUD's and even patches. See if you can find a proper Family Planning Clinic. If there are real health reasons for preventing pregnancy then it should be covered... then again, I've been on NHS for a few years so don't really know.