Faded Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Why? He was talking about socialist governments. Socialism is a watered-down form of communism (please, save the Marxist theory for another thread; we all know that modern socialism is communism in sheep's clothing), and communism is a form of slavery where the people are owned by the government. I'd say that's about as antiChrist as you can get. The Law of Consecration and the United Order are exactly the same thing as Communism with a few differences: 1.) Communism is built upon Atheism. The Law of Consecration is built upon believing in God.2.) Communism forces everyone to share and share alike. The Law of Consecration presumes that we will do it of our own free will and choice. All that aside, there are two economic extremes that have consistently proven to be disastrous failures: 1.) Communism -- total government control of economics.2.) Laissez Faire Capitalism -- zero government control of economics.Everything inbetween is a form of Socialism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 The Law of Consecration and the United Order are exactly the same thing as Communism with a few differences: 1.) Communism is built upon Atheism. The Law of Consecration is built upon believing in God.2.) Communism forces everyone to share and share alike. The Law of Consecration presumes that we will do it of our own free will and choice. All that aside, there are two economic extremes that have consistently proven to be disastrous failures: 1.) Communism -- total government control of economics.2.) Laissez Faire Capitalism -- zero government control of economics.Everything inbetween is a form of Socialism.I would add one more contrast of the United Order and Communism...Communism is managed from the highest level of government, while the United Order was managed from the lowest level (for today's analogy, think Bishop's managing Fast Offering funds). Also, communism isn't necessarily built on atheism, it just so happens that those who have instituted it have themselves been atheists. Thus, it would appear to be a sufficient, but not a necessary condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 If the US is really behind the Dominican Republic and Costa Rica in health care, why don't people move to those places in droves?Oh, yeah, that's right. Because the health care isn't actually better there. Isn't this great and specious thinking talked about in the scriptures? People would not move to a third world country just because they have better health care in the United States. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 People would not move to a third world country just because they have better health care in the United States. Oh yeah Moksha? Well what if they were really sick and were among the burgeoning population without health care? Or would you retort that this same group is too poor and too sick to move?Make up your mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Make up your mind!Uh...Yeah! What he said!I think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WANDERER Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 (edited) Australia: Whatever the tax percentage rate is...I have no idea...since it is deducted before determining taxable income it has it's benefits. 3-5 hours waiting in a public hospital casualty department...no charge. The amount is deducted from your tax return if you choose not to have it automatically deducted. There are rebates for families,location, paying for private health care etc. No money no tax charge. Bulk billing medical centre...no charge for health care holders...to see a general practitioner...depends...no wait, 15 mins, half an hour...depends on number of emergencies, preferences, region etc. Non-bulk billing medical centre...no wait, 15 mins, half and hour...depends on number of emergencies... Approximately $60 charge of which you get back a percentage depending on whether you have a health care card or not...I don't qualify as I work so I get some of it back. I think it's $27. To see a specialist...depends on the availability of specialists, remote or populated area and the type that you are seeking to see and the level of emergency....whether public or private. Some medicine is under the public health care scheme...some is reduced...some is reduced or free if you have a health care card entitling you to reductions. Health care cards are for the unemployed, pensioners etc. I have health coverage and dental that I privately pay for ...$1500 a year with medicare tax rebate I think the amount deducted is reduced. When remote I believe the specialist/dermatologist visited the nearest town hospital once every three months (I have private...no difference with letter of general practitioner referral)...I opted to book an appointment in a capital city...depends on how good they are...two weeks booked ahead to anything is possible. The cost was $120...don't remember what the refund was or if there was one...I had limited time and that wasn't a priority and paying for it was not problematic. Can you exempt yourself from taxes to fund healthcare...no...but it is of course according to criteria how much you pay. The way medical insurance works is that you pay extra in order to receive extra services (private hospital, choices, and to cover costs that are not under the public healthcare scheme...I think income level affects this) but nothing for what is automatic. Dental is provided to children via schools but there is no public dental health care...the Prime Minister would like to see a change to that. Ambulance is deducted from rates or is it electricity...I don't pay much attention. Medical insurance is compulsory as third party insurance for your car registration. The best thing about it...health care. If you're sick, you go see a doctor. You don't worry about having enough money to be able to see a doctor. The worst thing about it...timely level of care...if you are willing to pay private health coverage that may be reduced somewhat...if you can't or choose not to pay private health coverage you can expect treatment. Both public and private options are somewhat hampered by adequate or inadequate services and availability. Some believe that there is no difference to public health care and private health care and refuse to pay medical insurance. Some believe that it is wisdom to do so...you can run up pretty high bills if you don't have a health care card (don't qualify for reduced income status) as not everything is covered though lots of things are. Dental is not included so some just pay for the dental care component. I believe I'd rather be able to go to the doctor if I couldn't afford it so although the public health care system is not perfect the standard should be to get it there not get rid of it. It is as vital as free education. I don't think I could explain the whole entire public health system...it's complex and changing..about as complicated as private health insurance...free and partially free medication is constantly changing and services are constantly changing under the scheme ....but not so complicated that you wouldn't just walk in and see a doctor because you couldn't afford to see one. Because I don't have a health care card doctors will discuss medicine costs...cheaper generic medicine...you take your prescription to a chemist and you can ask for generics there too...it's generally about $20 or thereabouts for antibiotics and antibiotic ointment for me. There are definitely holes are in the public health care system and private health coverage that people face. In support is also...sickness leave available for serious health issues as part of superannuation, workplace health support officers who will help manage needs and modifications that you need for work ...i.e. you may work a half day or whatever arrangement fits your situation and unemployment benefits for those that are too sick to work and disability superannuation for if you no longer can work. Superannuation is mandatory for the employed. Pretty good really. I'm very relaxed about it all. There isn't a whole lot to worry about. Edited March 21, 2009 by wandering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadams_4040 Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 I would be curious to learn the pros and cons of government run health care. I have read Elgama' posts regarding it and she seems very positive about it. My questions are: What percentage of your income do you pay for it? What services does it include? What services are excluded? Can you exempt yourself and family from it and buy private insurance? What is the best thing about it and what is the worst. Are there provisions that may potentially diminish the level of care or the timely delivery of care?Any thoughts from our Canadian and UK friends would be great. Thanks- BytorSide note: I pay approximately $3400.00 annually for major medical insurance for my entire family. We have a high deductable...$1500.00 per person. simple health care reform alone will bring many millions into having insurance because of the lower prices; health care is what "Aig" "citi group" and all the others have been doing to us for many years; Too many people are getting very,very rich at the expense of the working families detrament; i speak to lots of doctors; and most of them agree; {even though they are getting rich themselves} that the health care insurance companies are waayyy out of control. The money they are making is unbeleivable and then thay sit on there big rear ends and tell us we need to pay 1500.00 dollars before we can have anything done; it is not christlike it is not humanitarian, it is not moral, nor right in any manner; lets all hope and pray that obama will finally be able to get this going; it will be differant for sure; but something needs to be done; I just would ask these billionaires that are stealing our money if they have ever studied and thought about holy scripture when they go to the bank in there mercedes benz with a chouffer driving it. God repeatedly warns of this kind of action on the part of greedy people; they will not be served well in heaven.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 simple health care reform alone will bring many millions into having insurance because of the lower prices; health care is what "Aig" "citi group" and all the others have been doing to us for many years; Too many people are getting very,very rich at the expense of the working families detrament; i speak to lots of doctors; and most of them agree; {even though they are getting rich themselves} that the health care insurance companies are waayyy out of control. The money they are making is unbeleivable and then thay sit on there big rear ends and tell us we need to pay 1500.00 dollars before we can have anything done; it is not christlike it is not humanitarian, it is not moral, nor right in any manner; lets all hope and pray that obama will finally be able to get this going; it will be differant for sure; but something needs to be done; I just would ask these billionaires that are stealing our money if they have ever studied and thought about holy scripture when they go to the bank in there mercedes benz with a chouffer driving it. God repeatedly warns of this kind of action on the part of greedy people; they will not be served well in heaven.:) sounds like Congress to me....they get a raise and they don't deserve one and we can't stop it.... Just what we need....Healthcare ran by the Gov't..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WANDERER Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Add to that...education run by a government...defence run by a government...a legal system run by a government...a government...a constitution...roads built by the government...sewerage, water treatment and garbage collection run by the government...a national bank run by the government...it should all be outsourced to whomever is able to provide the best service for the lowest cost...plenty of countries outsource these things to other nations...you know like electricity....LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 this I agree with a more integrated holistic attitude to health would be better, its something the NHS is slowly moving too.HOWEVER if an obese person or a smoker pays into the NHS I believe they are as entitled to the benefits as someone who damages their knees through a lot of running, the rugby player who is injured, or the guy who gets injured up a mountain. Very few of us do not engage in risky endeavors to some extent. And of course people will moan they do about the NHS but I don't know many Brits who have gone to holiday in the US, needed to avail of the US system and not come back with a huge appreciation of what we have. Nothing has stopped my complaints about the NHS more than seeing my Father in Laws treatment and experiencing my own in the US when I had a complicated miscarriage. I now know the NHS Dr who suggested I rest and let my first one happen was actually quite right, much better than trying to get as much as possible out of my good travel insurance company, by giving me unnecessary drugs and taking unnecessary blood tests. (wonder how much that adds up to in the US - the getting money out of insurance companies by doing unnecessary work).-Charley Thank you for reading and considering my post. I believe the primary responsibility for health care lies with the individual. Where you and I may disagree I do not believe that treating the symptom and not the cause is wise at all. Giving someone drugs for type 2 diabetes that is overweight and out of shape is not health care – especially if they lack the discipline to eat healthy and exercise. I do not see this problem any different than telling a drunk they have lost the right to drive. The risk that everyone else must suffer (or pay) is not worth the benefit to the one that does not care about consequences to themselves or others. The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgama Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 (edited) Giving someone drugs for type 2 diabetes that is overweight and out of shape is not health care – especially if they lack the discipline to eat healthy and exercise. I do not see this problem any different than telling a drunk they have lost the right to drive. The risk that everyone else must suffer (or pay) is not worth the benefit to the one that does not care about consequences to themselves or others. The TravelerUnder the NHS I would in that case receive referral to the gym for free, nutritionist and physiotherapy (quality of which varies but is present) - of course you have to get ill first lol I could argue that because I don't drive that drivers shouldn't receive treatment or someone could argue that because you didn't eat enough brocolli and got cancer etc The NHS also coves health education etcWe can all get ill at anytime - the difference is the drunk who is driving is putting other peoples lives at risk, and unhealthy person risks their own.-Charley Edited March 21, 2009 by Elgama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elphaba Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 A number of people have written how Americans don't have to wait as long as the British do. That has not been my experience at all. For example: I had to wait ten months to get a tilt-table test. I had to wait three months to get an appt. with a doctor who specializes in CFS/FM. I had to wait three months for a hyparathyroid surgery, even then I'd be scheduled every week, only to have them cancel every time. I had to wait two months to get a hysterctomy. I even traveled to Canada to see a doctor, who got me in within three weeks. If I were to make a complete list of all the incompetency I experienced in the medical community, none of you would believe me. I not would not have believed it myself prior to my getting ill. Obviously there are many exceptions to my experience, but wait times in America are not restricted to other countries with universal health care. I also understand America has the best technology, and I've benefitted from that techonology. But getting into use it can be a daunting task, specially when someone is so sick s/he can't turn a door knob. I remember a commerial about "Tamiflu," which you took as soon as your flu symptoms started. The commercial said that as soon as you notice your first symptoms, go to the doctor right away to get Tamiflu. I thought, "on what planet"? I have not ever had a doctor take me right in on short notice. What I am talking about are my own experiences, in that I waited far too long for a country that brags about its short wait times. Elphaba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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