What do you think about this situation?

[angela]

So I have posted before about the story of me and my husband. He left when I was 2 months pregnant - and was dating another woman within 2 months, and was moved in with her within 4 month. My husband and I are trying to work things out. Here's the kicker... My H works with the woman he lived with and had a full relationship with for 18 months. As of right now they are pretty good about scheduling the two of them on separate days... I am NOT okay with the two of them working together, and I know that there will come a time when the will have to work side by side. (They are both cooks at a golf course - and when summer is in full swing and they are busy it will happen eventually.) Is it selfish of me to ask him to quit this job? Right now he is only working 12-15 hours per week, making only $11/hour. So... it's not like he is giving up a good paying job that is providing for his family. The problem is that he LOVES working at the golf course. They let him golf free, and it is a pretty easy - no responsibility no brainer job.

But my heart of full of 1. HURT about them working together and 2. FEAR that it will eventually lead to something inappropriate again.

Any thoughts?

Edited April 14, 2009 by angela

[OtterPop]

Selfish? Are you kidding?

This situation is completely untenable. He needs to quit that job yesterday. It doesn't matter if he's making $11 or $1100 an hour. It doesn't matter that he loves it. It certainly doesn't matter that he gets to play golf for free. These are trivial things compared to a marriage. If he is not willing to give notice NOW and to have NO CONTACT with this woman under any circumstances, there is no marriage for the two of you to "work out."

I'm much more a shades-of-gray thinker than a black-and-white thinker -- but there's no gray here. The right thing to do is clear.

Edited April 13, 2009 by OtterPop

[angela]

Selfish? Are you kidding?

This situation is completely untenable. He needs to quit that job yesterday. It doesn't matter if he's making $11 or $1100 an hour. It doesn't matter that he loves it. It certainly doesn't matter that he gets to play golf for free. These are trivial things compared to a marriage. If he is not willing to give notice NOW and to have NO CONTACT with this woman under any circumstances, there is no marriage for the two of you to "work out."

That's how I feel. But whenever I have brought up the situation he has not responded well.

[BenRaines]

No kidding. He has a wife at home and another place where he can get whatever he needs for free. Plus free golf.

This is a win-win situation for him and a lose-lose for you.

Ben Raines

[angela]

So here's another similar situation... I was looking on my husband's Facebook profile today, and saw that he added about 8 new friends - all but 1 are female. I asked him who all these women were and he said "People from work". I know that 2 of them at least are from there, the rest I have NO CLUE about.

First I am ticked that at a time we are supposed to be fully concentrating on trying to make our marriage work he is adding unknown women to his facebook account. I am very hurt by it.

Second, ONE of the women he added is the future DIL of the woman he was in a relationship with. I suggested that was COMPLETELY unacceptable because this girl LIVES with his exgirlfriend and will probably give the ex complete access to his profile. I have to add that his ex is a little unstable and I have been a little concerned at times of what she is capable of. At times while she was with my H she would call and text me at all hours of the night. (I am wishing I would have taken out a restraining order...)

Opinions on this?

[Gjh1960]

Tough question.

What made your husband start this relationship with his colleague - and more important: what made him come back to you?

Imho it's all about love and commitment. If he loves you and is determined to be true to you no matter how attractive, interested etc any other woman around him may ever be, you won't need to worry.

If there's a lack of love for and/or commitment to you, you can't trust him anyhow, because a good marriage can't be founded merely on the lack of other opportunities.

Nevertheless, he may want to proof his commitment by accepting his responsibility for you and the child by deciding for a job that provides for his family rather than for his pleasure. For sure, in order to proof anything, this has to be his decision in the end.

[angela]

Tough question.

What made your husband start this relationship with his colleague - and more important: what made him come back to you?

Imho it's all about love and commitment. If he loves you and is determined to be true to you no matter how attractive, interested etc any other woman around him may ever be, you won't need to worry.

If there's a lack of love for and/or commitment to you, you can't trust him anyhow, because a good marriage can't be founded merely on the lack of other opportunities.

Nevertheless, he may want to proof his commitment by accepting his responsibility for you and the child by deciding for a job that provides for his family rather than for his pleasure. For sure, in order to proof anything, this has to be his decision in the end.

My huband left because we were going through some rough times. I was pregnant, no health insurance, he did not have a good job (THIS job), we were living with my mother, lots and lots of stress he was unwilling to deal with. He chose to run. He started this relationship (as far as I can speculate) because they were convenient to each other. She had been alone for about 2 years since her H left her, and H was "needing" a relationship for companionship (I am sure in every sense of the word). I absolutely DO question his commitment to me. Only ONE of us is in a position right now to financially take care of themselves (and that is me). Naturally, I question if he is really in this for love or a place to stay. H also has some problems like pornography (and possible worse sexual addictions).

His response to providing for a family is to wait because the prime golfing season starts soon... and his hours will pick up. Which brings me back to MY worry about the two of them working together - especially when from what I have seen of the woman she is very lonely and needy.

[talisyn]

Angela dear.....

I have to ask....

Why on the face of this beautiful planet are you still with this..ahem...person?

I can only assume it's because you are a very kind and gracious person who also feeds stray animals and other unwanted creatures.

When you were a single entity you had the power and right to do whatever you want. Now that you're a mom everything changes. Your child is young enough that you have some time to get your head on straight about what is best for your small family. Take advantage of your child's age to think things through because the time will soon come when a divorce (if necessary) will be damaging to your older child whereas if in the next little while you decide your husband is a cheating lying disrespectful loser the idea of 2 households will be considered normal for your toddler.

I apologize for my harshness. I was in a very similar situation about 10 years ago. It took some time for me to see that taking care of 2 babies was what I was doing. Your husband needs to be someone you can rely on. If it's not the father of your child then by all means find someone worthy of the job. I hope your husband grows up. I hope your marriage gets stronger. Your marriage is suppose to be an equal partnership. You have had to step up to the plate and take care of yourself and your baby without him. You've proven you don't need him. He needs to show you how much you do need him.

Edited April 13, 2009 by talisyn
clarification

[Faded]

That's how I feel. But whenever I have brought up the situation he has not responded well.

He hasn't responded well? How exactly does he expect to rebuild your trust when he refuses to put some separation between him and his adulterous whore?? I would tell him flat-out that you don't think he's taking "fixing our marriage" very seriously. Why do I say that?

1.) Free golf > his wife.

2.) Easy Job > his wife.

3.) He's the one who has to rebuild the trust, so it should be a no-brainer: any reasonable thing you need from him to regain your trust is something he should be doing. If he's unwilling to take all reasonable efforts to rebuild your trust, how seriously can his efforts really be taken?

4.) His betrayal is one of the ultimate low-blows when it comes to adultery -- ditching your wife while she's pregnant with your child. That means that he's got to pull his head out and do WAY better.

I wouldn't insist that he quit outright -- by all means let the man get another job to replace his current job. Might be a chance for him to get a better paying job anyways, which certainly wouldn't hurt. Here's the opportunity to move up in the world perhaps. But unless nobody is hiring chefs anymore (and we all know that they most definitely are) then he should set a deadline for himself to get another job.

The tricky part is getting him to realize all of that. Approach it in an accusatory way and he'll stop listening. Pray for guidance on how to get him to see what is so obvious to anyone here.

[Faded]

So here's another similar situation... I was looking on my husband's Facebook profile today, and saw that he added about 8 new friends - all but 1 are female. I asked him who all these women were and he said "People from work". I know that 2 of them at least are from there, the rest I have NO CLUE about.

First I am ticked that at a time we are supposed to be fully concentrating on trying to make our marriage work he is adding unknown women to his facebook account. I am very hurt by it.

Second, ONE of the women he added is the future DIL of the woman he was in a relationship with. I suggested that was COMPLETELY unacceptable because this girl LIVES with his exgirlfriend and will probably give the ex complete access to his profile. I have to add that his ex is a little unstable and I have been a little concerned at times of what she is capable of. At times while she was with my H she would call and text me at all hours of the night. (I am wishing I would have taken out a restraining order...)

Opinions on this?

This is also a BIG NO-NO. He's got to stop befriending women and going out of his way to interact with female friends. He should not seek to be close friends with any woman but you and your respective families. He should never be alone with another woman. He should never interact with his adulterous whore ever again.

These things are not asking much. I don't think he's taking the marriage very seriously. I would give him the opportunity to change all these things. If he can't change then you'll never have any reason to start trusting him again. That's the core of things here: Trust. It was broken SO SEVERELY that it's going to take some serious effort on his part to rebuild it. If he doesn't think these are reasonable requests, then you're better off without the man. He's setting himself up for a repeat performance at adultery and you've got no reason to trust him to do any better in the future. It's up to him to show you that he can be trusted.

[leming6]

I'll just tell you about my sister. She has been married to her husband for 13 years. Seven years ago she caught him on the internet talking with other women and internet porn. She tried to work things out but eventually left him, pregnant with their third child. He went out sowed his oats and came back to her a few weeks before the baby was born. She never fully trusted him but kept him around. A year and a half ago she caught him doing the same things. She spiraled out of control and just got out of an eating disorder clinic. She has decided to divorce him. Let me tell you from this experience, that if your husband is not willing to work on his addictions and stop having computer relationships with women, it may not be worth it to you. You need to stand strong to what you want and be firm on what he needs to do to change. Insist he quits his job and that his computer access is open to you. He shouldn't have to hide anything from you. He needs to show you that he is serious about fixing the marriage and if he's not, then well, it just might not be worth it.

[Hemidakota]

So I have posted before about the story of me and my husband. He left when I was 2 months pregnant - and was dating another woman within 2 months, and was moved in with her within 4 month. My husband and I are trying to work things out. Here's the kicker... My H works with the woman he lived with and had a full relationship with for 18 months. As of right now they are pretty good about scheduling the two of them on separate days... I am NOT okay with the two of them working together, and I know that there will come a time when the will have to work side by side. (They are both cooks at a golf course - and when summer is in full swing and they are busy it will happen eventually.) Is it selfish of me to ask him to quit this job? Right now he is only working 12-15 hours per week, making only $11/hour. So... it's not like he is giving up a good paying job that is providing for his family. The problem is that he LOVES working at the golf course. They let him golf free, and it is a pretty easy - no responsibility no brainer job.

But my heart of full of 1. HURT about them working together and 2. FEAR that it will eventually lead to something inappropriate again.

Any thoughts?

See your Bishop immediately.

[Wants2Know]

Both my fiance and I have issues with social sites like facebook and myspace etc. Well, I finally decided to put up a facebook page, and I made one for him at the same time. We decided that we would each have each others passwords and agreed we could access the pages at any time. Some of my friends think that's strange and distrustful of one another - but for us - we both feel better about it and I'm sure it's saved us a lot of "wondering" and arguing. It's actually worked out great! At first - we took each other up on looking up the other ones page - and reading emails etc. Now... we never do. My friends think it's an issue of trust - and maybe it is (we've both been victims of adultery in past marriages)... so we'd rather have a completely open and transparent relationship than risk feelings of doubt about the others possible transgressions... emotional/physical/real/imagined! It's really been great - we've both re-connected with friends and we have fun sending each other comments and "gifts".

[applepansy]

I agree with Hemidakota.. . Go See Your Bishop!!!!!

[NeuroTypical]

But my heart of full of 1. HURT about them working together and 2. FEAR that it will eventually lead to something inappropriate again.

It's time to stop taking direction from your heart, and start paying attention to your head.

You are a mom. You are now role modeling to your kid, the kind of behavior you find acceptable in a husband and wife. As you make choices in this, you are training your kid on how to behave.

Not sure if your kid is a boy or a girl. If a girl, make the choices you would like to see her making if she ever finds herself in a similar situation. If a boy, make the choices that send a clear message about which husband behaviors are unacceptable, and what happens when a husband engages in them.

LM

[Guest missingsomething]

So I have posted before about the story of me and my husband. He left when I was 2 months pregnant - and was dating another woman within 2 months, and was moved in with her within 4 month. My husband and I are trying to work things out. Here's the kicker... My H works with the woman he lived with and had a full relationship with for 18 months. As of right now they are pretty good about scheduling the two of them on separate days... I am NOT okay with the two of them working together, and I know that there will come a time when the will have to work side by side. (They are both cooks at a golf course - and when summer is in full swing and they are busy it will happen eventually.) Is it selfish of me to ask him to quit this job? Right now he is only working 12-15 hours per week, making only $11/hour. So... it's not like he is giving up a good paying job that is providing for his family. The problem is that he LOVES working at the golf course. They let him golf free, and it is a pretty easy - no responsibility no brainer job.

But my heart of full of 1. HURT about them working together and 2. FEAR that it will eventually lead to something inappropriate again.

Any thoughts?

Ok, Im normally pretty mellow - *I think*... but WHAT THE HECK!!! He hasnt quit yet? WHO CARES if he really likes it.... ITS OUT OF THE QUESTION! I think most bishops would agree with me here - you dont PUT yourself in a situation to be tempted.

Reach deep down ...deep down... then let it RIP - He isnt making a lot of money and could make nearly that in another job. YOU are worth that. YOUR peace of mind should come first.

Wow, I dont know what but I got INSTANTLY inflamed with this - you are a much more patient person than I am.

[Guest missingsomething]

See your Bishop immediately.

Yes we love Hemi cuz he's so smart! DO THIS.

[Just_A_Guy]

Let me get this straight:

He met the woman at the same place where he currently works, that was at least 18 months ago, he's working 12-15 hours per week, and he's living with his in-laws. I also see by your profile that you're 29, and I presume he's about the same age.

Does he have a second job? Has he had a second job for any of the last 18 months? If no to both of the previous questions--is he currently pursuing a graduate degree?

If not, you may wish to ask yourself (and him) why a thirty-year-old man has spent the last year-and-a-half working the same amount of hours per week that I worked as a sixteen-year-old.

[Captain_Curmudgeon]

Tell that loser this way or the highway.

[angela]

Thanks for all the advice. :)

I do want to clarify a few things. We are seeing an lds counselor. She is WONDERFUL. I realized yesterday that this is a huge issue to me - BUT I have never brought it up to the counselor. We are on a six week program that the counselor says we will KNOW at the end of it whether or not we should even continue. She asked for nothing but patience and unconditional love to be offered while these six weeks are taking place.

In counseling last week he was faced with the fact that I need him to support the financially and while he is happy that I am the bread-winner - I am NOT. This is one of the deal-breakers in the relationship because it will either show he values my wants or not.

I understand that I look incredibly NEEDY or dependent or whatever you want to call me. Please KNOW that I have brought myself to HF and have been (for the most part once I accepted the reality of the situation) guided by the Spirit. Today I am fasting for help with some of the other situations that I am dealing with because of my Husband (see the ADULT section for another shocking post). I am confident that if my H chooses to use his agency instead of accepting the call from HF to change his life, that I will eventually be released from the position of being asked to help my H. :)

One last thing, my children are young enough that they do not know the situation with his ex being at work with him. I have a child that is almost 9 and we have a 3 year old and a 1 year old together.

[Madriglace]

Well ... let's see ... only working 12-15 hours a week, works with ex, "visitis" with numerous women one line. Keeps job because he likes to golf. Couldn't handle preganancy (Where was he? In the kitchen when it happend?) I know we should for give and help those tha need our help but dear sister you are worth way more than this. He should be treating you as nothing less than the daughter of God that you are. You need to demand that he treat you the way you deserve.

So I guess my advice would be ... complete the 6 week program .... and then .... KICK THE SKUNK TO THE CURB! Heavenly Father wants you to be happy .... this guys is happy now just as he is ... and doesn't seem to care if you are or not.

[Guest]

Hi Angela,

My view on this is not a common one. But, please think about it. It works for me and I wouldn't live my life any other way.

My husband used to be a runway model. He has girls chasing him everywhere even knowing he is already married. And he loves the attention. I made sure before I married him that he is not the "cheating" type. After that, I don't even think about all the girls he is with anymore. He has a gazillion girl friends - on facebook, myspace, whatever-new-online-stuff-is-out-there, on the job, everywhere we go. I don't worry about it. Because, I KNOW without a shadow of a doubt, he loves me, and ONLY me. He adores his children and he is committed to our temple marriage. I try to be the best wife I can possibly be. He is not about to throw all that away for a "fling".

Your husband is completely different. He is not devoted to you. And there is nothing you can do to change that. It's like trying to convert an atheist to become a member of the LDS church. YOU can't do it. The atheist has to do it with the help of the spirit. All you can do is show them where the good stuff is.

Your husband working with "the girl" is small potatoes. You shouldn't bother with it. As a matter of fact, you shouldn't bother with his "cheating tendencies". Let me explain.

We already know your husband is not faithful. That is a given. As long as you are not doing anything to give him a reason to seek comfort elsewhere (i.e., being abusive to him verbally or physically, being an excessive control freak, etc. etc.), there is really nothing much you can do about it. You can raise all kinds of hell for him working with "the girl", he can quit his job, you can monitor his activities, install spies, monitor his phone calls, monitor his bank accounts, etc. etc. etc... you can do ALL THOSE and still - if he wants to cheat, HE WILL FIND A WAY! All you are doing is giving yourself a whole load of worry, taking time and care away from yourself and your children (who are worth much more thought and worry than your bozo of a husband), and giving your husband ample reason to make his jaunts "thrilling". A lot of times, part of the thrill of cheating is the cat-and-mouse game of hiding from you.

What you need to do is DECIDE. Can you live with this? Can you provide your children with their needs both physically and spiritually with this completely untrustworthy husband/father? Is it better if you leave him? Because, that is really the only choice - Stay or Leave. You cannot change your husband. He has to do it on his own. And more importantly, you cannot tell him what to do or what not to do. He will do it in whatever manner he can find to get away with it. But, you can give him plenty of reasons to want to change - be the best person you can ever be (for yourself and your children). But, in the end, it is completely up to him.

His working with a certain girl is completely beneath you now. Because, if he quits this job and finds something else - there will always be another girl there. At least with this one, you know who she is and you've already been through the heartache of "her versus you". It would be a completely new heartache to find out there's a new girl in the new job. Really, this should be completely beneath you now. You need to move on from here. You are better than this. Stay or Leave. That's your choice. For yourself and your children. If you decide to Stay, then you will have to accept that he is a cheater. Don't worry about it anymore. There's much better use of your time.

Edited April 14, 2009 by anatess

[angela]

Thanks for the responses guys.

I asked my H to leave our house about 1/2 an hour ago. I told him it would be better for him to leave for a while since an arguement was getting heated. He said forget it he was done (again).

So my H is in the Lord's hands. My H and the Lord are the only ones who can help him now. I have done what I could...

[Gjh1960]

He hasn't responded well? How exactly does he expect to rebuild your trust when he refuses to put some separation between him and his adulterous whore?? I would tell him flat-out that you don't think he's taking "fixing our marriage" very seriously. Why do I say that?

1.) Free golf > his wife.

2.) Easy Job > his wife.

3.) He's the one who has to rebuild the trust, so it should be a no-brainer: any reasonable thing you need from him to regain your trust is something he should be doing. If he's unwilling to take all reasonable efforts to rebuild your trust, how seriously can his efforts really be taken?

4.) His betrayal is one of the ultimate low-blows when it comes to adultery -- ditching your wife while she's pregnant with your child. That means that he's got to pull his head out and do WAY better.

I wouldn't insist that he quit outright -- by all means let the man get another job to replace his current job. Might be a chance for him to get a better paying job anyways, which certainly wouldn't hurt. Here's the opportunity to move up in the world perhaps. But unless nobody is hiring chefs anymore (and we all know that they most definitely are) then he should set a deadline for himself to get another job.

The tricky part is getting him to realize all of that. Approach it in an accusatory way and he'll stop listening. Pray for guidance on how to get him to see what is so obvious to anyone here.

If 2 persons of different sex do the same bad thing (maybe even together), I strongly dislike the notion that for one of them a worse word is used than for the other.

Therefore while I do not entirely agree with your choice of words, I have to admit that I agree a 100 percent with what you said.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Gjh1960

[Faded]

Thanks for the responses guys.

I asked my H to leave our house about 1/2 an hour ago. I told him it would be better for him to leave for a while since an arguement was getting heated. He said forget it he was done (again).

So my H is in the Lord's hands. My H and the Lord are the only ones who can help him now. I have done what I could...

Sounds like an unfinished scenario, but it's always hard to say, right?

If he wants to have another run at fixing the marriage, he needs some very definite goals and rules. Those items come from you, and you need to figure out exactly what you need from him. What would he have to do to regain your trust? What would it take from him to make you want to continue on.

The reason I'm saying this is for your benefit as well as his. He's likely to decide to try once again. The important thing for him is for you to have well defined and logical rules and goals so that he:

1.) Knows that price of trying to rebuild your trust right up front. He can decide whether or not he is willing to do it.

2.) You have something to hold him to, and I would stress that you do not waver on anything, and that you set the rules and goals where YOU need them. do no limit them to what you can talk him into.

3.) He can't say that you're being unfair, or making up arbitrary rules on the fly or anything -- because he has the bar set right up front.

4.) He knows every rule or goal has a very good reason that can be calmly and easily explained by you, so it can't really be cast aside as "silly" or "nonsensical."

5.) He only has himself to blame if he is unwilling to do what it takes. Once you have clearly and calmly laid out, "I need this from you if I'm ever going to trust you again" and you explain very clearly why. From there, the choice is 100% his.

6.) This places you solidly in the drivers seat which you have have every right to expect. He should not be grabbing the reigns of control of the situation away from you because he's not the one who has been humiliated and betrayed.

I think what we've learned so far would indicate that your husband isn't going to be willing to live up the kind of expectations that will truly repair your trust and rebuild your marriage. But I think it is very important that he has those standards and goals handed to him so that he can only blame himself for his own pig-headed selfishness and unwillingness to man-up and do what it takes to regain your love and trust. So next time he comes calling, saying that he's ready to try once more, he can know exactly what it will take. He can either stay and play by the rules or he can leave and admit he's just not willing to do what it takes to save his marriage.

I have an uncle who has been married five times. Each time he starts out being unbelievably charming and dashing. Over time, I think he gets sick of each of them, but he seems to have an over-riding need to not be at fault for the marriage falling apart. So in each case, he would be mean and do all manner of things to drives them away from him. His fourth wife did essentially what I've described: She did not say, "that it, I'm done with this." She laid down a list of things he had to achieve in order to win her back. For first time my uncle had to face the fact that it was not the wife's fault this time. He had to acknowledge that he just wasn't willing to live up to what was asked of him. I think that experience was good for my uncle. He did leave her, but this time he knew that he couldn't blame anyone but himself.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Faded