Gift of healing. (Healers)

[martybess]

I gave lesson 33 out of the Joseph Smith manual yesterday in our HP group which was basically on article of faith 7. “We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.”

I ended up talking with a couple afterwards about a healer they know and thought I would throw it out here. This is all second hand information or maybe even more. They said this guy is a member in good standing that somehow heals ppl even over the phone. He has talked to his stake president about what does to make sure he’s not going to get in trouble and I guess he’s ok in what he does. Ppl call him over the phone, tell him what their sickness is and chat for a while. He then puts down the phone for while then picks up the phone and ask how the area is feeling. (This person that was telling me this had a torn shoulder that needed surgery) and said the area got warm. He then told them they needed to take it easy, lay around for 48 hours while the area healed. The person swears this person has powers. Had bad heal spurs that were really bothering them too and he healed them of this as well.

What do you guys think about this??? Do people really have the gift of healing to the extent that they can do it over the phone? I’m thinking about Christ healing those to sick to come to him but were still healed.

-Marty

[Kawazu]

Hmmm. What is the contact info on this rumored healer? Does he work for free?

[martybess]

Hmmm. What is the contact info on this rumored healer? Does he work for free?

I don't have the contact information but can get it tonight if you want it.

Funny the first post would ask if he works for free. I thought the same thing. The answer is no he charges apparently 40 dollars and I would ask why? Why would one charge if he's a disciple of Christ? Did Christ charge? The answer I got was he is so busy with phone calls its a full time thing. I would really be interested in knowing what his stake president fills about this. With that said could this really be legit? Or is he preying on the week and desperate.

-Marty

[Kawazu]

Howdy,

I am a little cautious of people who promise miracles for money.

Cheers,

Kawazu

[Still_Small_Voice]

I would agree with Kawazu. But if this guy is legitimate doctors also charge money for their services. In my own opinion though I don't think it's right to charge money to pray for someone.

[Maxel]

In my own opinion though I don't think it's right to charge money to pray for someone.

Don't worry- Peter agreed with you.

Acts 8:18-20

18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

The apostles were full-time apostles and they never charged money. If this man was truly doing the work of God, he would also be living the tenets of self-sufficiency and provident living that the Church stresses right now.

As for being able to be healed through the phone... To me, it's pushing the limit on valid spiritual interactions. In the early apostolic church, there was a belief that touching the shadow of Peter could heal infirmities (Acts 5:15); there was the woman who was healed just by touching the outermost parts of Christ's robe and was healed because of that act of faith (Matthew 9:20-22; Mark 5:25-34; Luke 8:43-48). In the case of the woman, she was healed because "her faith had made her whole" (as is the case with all healings). Neither of those cases, however, really seem to justify this man's actions or his taking money for his 'service'.

I agree with Kawazu- be very suspicious of anyone charging for miracles.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Maxel

[martybess]

I would agree with Kawazu. But if this guy is legitimate doctors also charge money for their services. In my own opinion though I don't think it's right to charge money to pray for someone.

These ppl in my ward are not out there if you know what I mean. They said it was either give it a go for 40 bucks or shell a minimum that the doc. wanted for the surgery. I find this whole thing intriguing though.

[martybess]

I would agree as well and am really taken back that the ppl in my ward did go along with it. Not sure what to make of it.

[Vort]

Funny the first post would ask if he works for free. I thought the same thing. The answer is no he charges apparently 40 dollars and I would ask why?

Because he's a liar, a fraud, and a practitioner of priestcraft.

Why would one charge if he's a disciple of Christ? Did Christ charge? The answer I got was he is so busy with phone calls its a full time thing. I would really be interested in knowing what his stake president fills about this. With that said could this really be legit? Or is he preying on the week and desperate.

No, it cannot be "legit". He is a vampire, preying on the spiritually weak and vulnerable. He should be reported to the stake president, who will put a stop to his actions, possibly through excommunication.

(Waiting for Snow to lecture me on my childish judgmentalism...)

[Maxel]

He should be reported to the stake president, who will put a stop to his actions, possibly through excommunication.

Vort brings up a good point. If he's in your stake, martybess, it would be a good idea to at least make sure that his bishop/stake president do, in fact, know about his actions.

[HiJolly]

I gave lesson 33 out of the Joseph Smith manual yesterday in our HP group which was basically on article of faith 7. “We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.”

I ended up talking with a couple afterwards about a healer they know and thought I would throw it out here. This is all second hand information or maybe even more. They said this guy is a member in good standing that somehow heals ppl even over the phone. He has talked to his stake president about what does to make sure he’s not going to get in trouble and I guess he’s ok in what he does. Ppl call him over the phone, tell him what their sickness is and chat for a while. He then puts down the phone for while then picks up the phone and ask how the area is feeling. (This person that was telling me this had a torn shoulder that needed surgery) and said the area got warm. He then told them they needed to take it easy, lay around for 48 hours while the area healed. The person swears this person has powers. Had bad heal spurs that were really bothering them too and he healed them of this as well.

What do you guys think about this??? Do people really have the gift of healing to the extent that they can do it over the phone? I’m thinking about Christ healing those to sick to come to him but were still healed.

-Marty

I taught this lesson (#15 - Seek Ye Earnestly the Best Gifts) in Gospel Doctrine two Sundays ago. I love how the JS priesthood/RS manual corresponds so closely in timing to the SS lessons.

This type of healing is categorized as 'vibrational healing' or more commonly called 'energy healing'. The energy comes via the Light of Christ, which fills the universe and can be focused and directed by our will if we learn how to do it. It is real, and it is not necessarily a bad thing.

I look at it like I look at water - it is a natural (God given, IOW) resource and can be used in whatever way we learn to use it, for good or ill. As for healing "over the phone", that's not what is being done. Rather, this is called "distance" healing, and yes it works and yes it will often make the recipient feel warm in the area being treated. Though sometimes the energy (and thus, the 'warmth') moves to another, unexpected area that needs it.

I used to wonder about this stuff, having heard a bit about Reiki healing. I looked it up, researched it and didn't feel good about being initiated into it since that process involved energetic imprinting of Japanese symbols into the energy centers of the body. Nevertheless, for those that feel OK with it, it is the real deal. I did try a different modality that does not require such an imprinting, and can verify from personal experience that it is not necessarily a bad thing, and that it is a 'real' thing, for those who believe in it enough to work with it.

HiJolly

[Maxel]

I've heard and believe that there is the kind of healing that comes through the manipulation of the body's energy (my sister was lucky enough to see an LDS doctor employing the technique, which required the use of hand signals and a special stone that resonated at different frequencies). It doesn't seem to be the Reiki healing that HiJolly has mentioned; it does sound somewhat similar.

I think a couple of facts are important:

How, exactly, does this so-called healer who requires payment for healing over the phone describe his actions? Does he claim it is a spiritual healing (which could very well be a ploy for 'preying' on the spiritually weak, as Vort has pointed out)? Where did this 'healer' learn the art?

[mikbone]

I happen to be a healer. But I heal with Steal. True Story.

Ever heard of the placebo effect? It is powerful.

There was an excellent study done to test the placebo vs. knee scopes for mild arthritis. It was a single blind study where the patients were treated with a spinal anesthesia and then they either had a real knee scope with 1) a debridement or 2) a sham operation (the docs made a real incision and made a fuss about squirting some water and pulling the leg around but no scope or debridement was performed). Results - no difference. Both groups of patients reported a significant increase in knee funciton and decrease in pain. Many of the patients who were in the sham group even stated that they would recommend the operation to their family members.

Why did it work? Because the patients believed that it would help them to feel better. And it did.

John 9: 6-7

When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,

And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.

Do you think that Christ applied clay to the blind man's eyes because the clay had special medicinal properties, or do you think that perhaps Christ knew that the blind man did not have enough faith to be healed and needed this outward display of action to boost his faith?

[HiJolly]

I happen to be a healer. But I heal with Steal. True Story.

Ever heard of the placebo effect? It is powerful.

There was an excellent study done to test the placebo vs. knee scopes for mild arthritis. It was a single blind study where the patients were treated with a spinal anesthesia and then they either had a real knee scope with 1) a debridement or 2) a sham operation (the docs made a real incision and made a fuss about squirting some water and pulling the leg around but no scope or debridement was performed). Results - no difference. Both groups of patients reported a significant increase in knee funciton and decrease in pain. Many of the patients who were in the sham group even stated that they would recommend the operation to their family members.

Why did it work? Because the patients believed that it would help them to feel better. And it did.

John 9: 6-7

When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,

And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.

Do you think that Christ applied clay to the blind man's eyes because the clay had special medicinal properties, or do you think that perhaps Christ knew that the blind man did not have enough faith to be healed and needed this outward display of action to boost his faith?

Faith is power. Mix it with a little knowledge, and it's unbeatable.

HiJolly

[mikbone]

I dont have a problem if this member requires $40 for each healing if he does it to help the member to have faith, and then donates the $40 to the Church. But pocketing it would be a no-no in my opinion.

[spiritseeker]

I believe the gift of healing is real. But I am with the side that says if you charge for a gift given to you by Heavenly Father. That's crossing a line that I believe will damage your eternal progression.

[martybess]

The thought that comes to mind is would not HF remove this gift if it’s from him and one is charging money, or abusing the gift? But I cannot find in the scriptures that the gift will be taken if wrongfully used. I can find this statement for talents but not gifts. So maybe what HF is saying here is if I give you a gift you better use it wisely and for the benefit of man or you will be under judgment.

[D&C 46]

8 Wherefore, beware lest ye are deceived; and that ye may not be deceived seek ye earnestly the best gifts, always remembering for what they are given;

9 For verily I say unto you, they are given for the benefit of those who love me and keep all my commandments, and him that seeketh so to do; that all may be benefited that seek or that ask of me, that ask and not for a sign that they may consume it upon their lusts.

[Moroni 10]

8 And again, I exhort you, my brethren, that ye deny not the gifts of God, for they are many; and they come from the same God. And there are different ways that these gifts are administered; but it is the same God who worketh all in all; and they are given by the manifestations of the Spirit of God unto men, to profit them.

11 And to another, exceedingly great faith; and to another, the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

12 And again, to another, that he may work mighty miracles;

17 And all these gifts come by the Spirit of Christ; and they come unto every man severally, according as he will.

-Marty

[Hemidakota]

I gave lesson 33 out of the Joseph Smith manual yesterday in our HP group which was basically on article of faith 7. “We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.”

I ended up talking with a couple afterwards about a healer they know and thought I would throw it out here. This is all second hand information or maybe even more. They said this guy is a member in good standing that somehow heals ppl even over the phone. He has talked to his stake president about what does to make sure he’s not going to get in trouble and I guess he’s ok in what he does. Ppl call him over the phone, tell him what their sickness is and chat for a while. He then puts down the phone for while then picks up the phone and ask how the area is feeling. (This person that was telling me this had a torn shoulder that needed surgery) and said the area got warm. He then told them they needed to take it easy, lay around for 48 hours while the area healed. The person swears this person has powers. Had bad heal spurs that were really bothering them too and he healed them of this as well.

What do you guys think about this??? Do people really have the gift of healing to the extent that they can do it over the phone? I’m thinking about Christ healing those to sick to come to him but were still healed.

-Marty

Marty, if the local Bishop and the Stake President is comfortable with it, then there is no problem.

It is a gift than any good member can attend in this life.

[MobyMule]

Maybe he gets frequent calls from the SP. I believe in the gift but doesn't sound right to me about the charging $40.

[Hemidakota]

Taking money is where he would or should lose the gift. Even if you received knowledge forehand of a future invention, you still cannot sell it to another without losing the gift.

Raising the dead is another topic that most couldn't not achieve without some special abilities from beyond the veil. :)