What causes people to be extremly ant-mormon?

[Guest TheLutheran]

. . . What causes people to be extremly ant-mormon?

Self-preservation.

I would in no way characterize myself as "extremely ant-mormon" but I do not share some beliefs of my LDS friends and neighbors. Being "non-LDS" in an area with a fairly dense LDS population [no pun intended!!] is challenging!! A very distasteful attitude of superiority is sometimes demonstrated by my LDS friends and neighbors, not to mention occasional competitiveness and a tendency to gossip.

When my daughters were little, many of the LDS parents went to great lengths to align the policies and practices at the local PUBLIC elementary school with LDS principles.

Examples: offering after-school activities was being discussed by the parent group but all LDS opposed the idea because "we believe that mothers should be in the home and available after school for their children's needs." Theme baskets were annually auctioned as a fundraiser but absolutely no coffee or tea could be included in breakfast-themed baskets at the insistence of LDS parents.

My youngest daughter was in her Hispanic friend's quincinerea as were a whole collection of kids resembling the United Nations -- Hispanic, white, black, Asian, Catholic, Protestant and LDS. It was incredible, HOWEVER, one LDS mom hijacked the gowns (spaghetti straps with a stole) and insisted that the stole be made into these hideous "sleeves" that would comply with LDS modesty in dress requirements.

So . . . I would say that sometimes unfavorable sentiments toward the LDS generate not from prowling anti-Mormon websites nor from a fired-up pulpit but from mere personal interaction. It's ok . . . I love ya'll anyway!

[Dravin]

Okay, I can understand some, "Those folks is crazy!" thinking (and thus some talking), heavens know that some beleifs have made me shake my head and mutter, "That's crazy talk!" but that's a far cry from being on a crusade of sorts to prove them Mormons wrong and not let things like facts and reality get in the way (which is what I'd consider extreme anti-Mormonism, if you do care about facts and reality that takes you a notch back). Though this may just be a disconnect of what everyone considers anti-Mormon, I imagine all of us have our own definitions and a lot of them probably boarder on obscenity definitions, aka I'll know it when I see it.

[Justice]

Being "non-LDS" in an area with a fairly dense LDS population [no pun intended!!] is challenging!!

LOL!!! I love it! Nice one. :)

A very distasteful attitude of superiority is sometimes demonstrated by my LDS friends and neighbors, not to mention occasional competitiveness and a tendency to gossip.

It's true. As long as you don't judge the Church for its members. :)

When my daughters were little, many of the LDS parents went to great lengths to align the policies and practices at the local PUBLIC elementary school with LDS principles.

I live in a predominantly Baptist area, and the same has happened here. It's natural for people to want their kids to be taught what they believe. They mean you no disrespect or harm. But, when deciding what a school should teach, the majority should decide. I'm fine with it. My responsibility is to teach them truth at home so they know how to decipher what is being taught at school. It works well for us. It even causes my kids to ask more questions than they would otherwise.

So . . . I would say that sometimes unfavorable sentiments toward the LDS generate not from prowling anti-Mormon websites nor from a fired-up pulpit but from mere personal interaction. It's ok . . . I love ya'll anyway!

I believe you with all my heart. I've seen it. It happens here, but it's not just Baptists or Mormons.

When I go to my son's school to pick him up I see girls everywhere dressed in things I don't want my son seeing, or having to deal with at his tender age. I feel for that mother you described. She's probably just looking after her kids. But, often we do handle things wrong.

[Justice]

By the way, the title of the thread says "eteremely" so that's what I'm addressing.

[Guest lalaonegin]

The Devil.

Excellent post Mike. Those who are anxiously engaged in attacking our faith, are inspired and controlled by Satan himself. Whether you're Walter Martin or one of the September Six, Satan is your master.

Also, when you leave this Church, but can't leave it alone, Satan is filling that void.

[Guest lalaonegin]

Self-preservation.

I would in no way characterize myself as "extremely ant-mormon" but I do not share some beliefs of my LDS friends and neighbors. Being "non-LDS" in an area with a fairly dense LDS population [no pun intended!!] is challenging!! A very distasteful attitude of superiority is sometimes demonstrated by my LDS friends and neighbors, not to mention occasional competitiveness and a tendency to gossip.

When my daughters were little, many of the LDS parents went to great lengths to align the policies and practices at the local PUBLIC elementary school with LDS principles.

Examples: offering after-school activities was being discussed by the parent group but all LDS opposed the idea because "we believe that mothers should be in the home and available after school for their children's needs." Theme baskets were annually auctioned as a fundraiser but absolutely no coffee or tea could be included in breakfast-themed baskets at the insistence of LDS parents.

My youngest daughter was in her Hispanic friend's quincinerea as were a whole collection of kids resembling the United Nations -- Hispanic, white, black, Asian, Catholic, Protestant and LDS. It was incredible, HOWEVER, one LDS mom hijacked the gowns (spaghetti straps with a stole) and insisted that the stole be made into these hideous "sleeves" that would comply with LDS modesty in dress requirements.

So . . . I would say that sometimes unfavorable sentiments toward the LDS generate not from prowling anti-Mormon websites nor from a fired-up pulpit but from mere personal interaction. It's ok . . . I love ya'll anyway!

Thanks for sharing your views here Lutheran. On the flipside of that coin, how do you think an LDS family would fare in a community built around Powder Milk Biscuits, BeBopAReBop Rhubarb Pie?

[Saguaro]

Whether you consider someone anti or not is often in the eye of the beholder. When my mother-in-law was visiting us last year she started reading my copy of Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman, she immediately began taking down notes of all the anti stuff in the book. She is very conservative and orthodox and was offended by some of the things in the book.

But the book is historically accurate, it's sold by Deseret Book, and Bushman is a believer, he deals with the more difficult aspects of early church history such as treasure digging, seer stones, and polygamy, but still comes out believing Joseph was a prophet, warts and all. But my MIL couldn't look past the fact that he was even bringing up things that weren't positive and uplifting, even though they were true. Other authors of scholarly works have done far worse, arriving at much different conclusions regarding the church.

[Guest lalaonegin]

Whether you consider someone anti or not is often in the eye of the beholder. When my mother-in-law was visiting us last year she started reading my copy of Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman, she immediately began taking down notes of all the anti stuff in the book. She is very conservative and orthodox and was offended by some of the things in the book.

But the book is historically accurate, it's sold by Deseret Book, and Bushman is a believer, he deals with the more difficult aspects of early church history such as treasure digging, seer stones, and polygamy, but still comes out believing Joseph was a prophet, warts and all. But my MIL couldn't look past the fact that he was even bringing up things that weren't positive and uplifting, even though they were true. Other authors of scholarly works have done far worse, arriving at much different conclusions regarding the church.

The only problem I have with the works of Richard and Claudia Bushman, is that they seek to sanitize the divine nature of Joseph and his works.

I have heard a GA who shares a Grandfather with Bushman, when asked about the book, exclaimed "Not the Joseph I know"

Knowing Richard and Claudia, and the book, I tend to like it, it wasn't published to deal with doctrine or faith, but as a biography of the Prophet Joseph. As such, I feel it does more positive than negative.

[prisonchaplain]

A lot of the anti-Mormon stuff I've seen comes down to a few categories:

Clergy of other denominations who fear losing their livelihood if members of their congregations leave

Nah...not this one. LDS tend to either be dominant (Utah, S. Idaho) or a small minority. I seriously doubt many ministers fear losing large #s of their congregation to your church. On the other hand, if they believe your teachings are in serious error, they would grieve over even one lost sheep..."

[pam]

That's only because you are really LDS deep down inside PC.

[the Ogre]

Nah...not this one. LDS tend to either be dominant (Utah, S. Idaho) or a small minority. I seriously doubt many ministers fear losing large #s of their congregation to your church. On the other hand, if they believe your teachings are in serious error, they would grieve over even one lost sheep..."

Right, economics is a small part of it, but I have had to defend the church against accusations of "sheep-stealing". My response is generally: "Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa . . . "

[Guest TheLutheran]

Thanks for sharing your views here Lutheran. On the flipside of that coin, how do you think an LDS family would fare in a community built around Powder Milk Biscuits, BeBopAReBop Rhubarb Pie?

Well . . . their tummies would be full!!

[StallionMcBeastly]

Go ask the people at carm.org

[martybess]

Go ask the people at carm.org

Wolves in sheep's clothing?

[MikeUpton]

There is one thing anti-Mormons bring up which i find a weird point to harp on. They love to bring up the idea Mormons believe that Satan was a spirit brother of Jesus. I cannot understand why they love this point, save that it sounds bad the way they put it, but don't they basically believe the same thing?

Don't they believe Satan was a "fallen angel" of God, the same as we do? Isaiah 14

And who created the angels of Heaven but God? Indeed who created all beings that exist and ordained that they have choice whether to follow God or not?

Mormons believe the answer is God, which makes Christ and Satan (and all of the rest of us too, not just them) spirit brothers and sisters as a technicality, but we don't think of Satan exactly as a family member in good standing. More of a disowned family member, not the type you'd get together with and say, watch the game with or something.

If anti mormons don't believe God created Satan, then who do they believe created him?

Edited May 30, 2009 by MikeUpton

[Hemidakota]

Excellent post Mike...

[Avrham]

"If anti mormons don't believe God created Satan, then who do they believe created him?"

I have heard that only good comes from God and that Evil is its opposite I believe they call it dualism like North pole vs South pole it just is(no explanation) , thats just one theory

Christianity need Satan for this purpose"to bring to pass the imortality and eternal life of man" :)

[/QUOT

[Seanette]

That to me seems to evade the question: in Protestant theology (can't vouch for Catholic), God created ALL things and beings. Satan is a being. Therefore, God created him. Why?

And no, Deuteronomy 29:29 is not a responsive answer (that one was tried on me in my fundamentalist days).

[Avrham]

well LDS belief is God created Satan and we are free to choose on Earth(good/bad)from my own watered down understanding we need opposition in all things which is Satan(being one of God's angels)chose to be selfish and set his own plan as opposed to the plan of salvation(Gods plan)

Dualism theory is very black and white and just accepting without investigation is very fatalistic view which i used to accept

[MikeUpton]

well LDS belief is God created Satan and we are free to choose on Earth(good/bad)from my own watered down understanding we need opposition in all things which is Satan(being one of God's angels)chose to be selfish and set his own plan as opposed to the plan of salvation(Gods plan)

Dualism theory is very black and white and just accepting without investigation is very fatalistic view which i used to accept

This is beside the point I was making. We know evil comes from satan, good comes from god. we also know that there is opposition in all things. that has nothing to do with the question. In this case it is actually distracting from my question.

Edited May 30, 2009 by MikeUpton

[Guest dzd-n-cnfused]

human nature is arrogant....people dont like to hear that they may be wrong....including mormons......HF knows the truth...we, as humans will not know the fullness of truth while we are here.....personally, and i am mormon, i believe that there are mormons that make it...and some that dont............catholics that make it ...and some that dont........hindus that make it...and some that dont..........etc....etc.........spirituality differs from religious dogma......and transcends the same....my belief......take it for what its worth......if nothing....so be it......no problem

[Maureen]

There is one thing anti-Mormons bring up which i find a weird point to harp on. They love to bring up the idea Mormons believe that Satan was a spirit brother of Jesus. I cannot understand why they love this point, save that it sounds bad the way they put it, but don't they basically believe the same thing?

Don't they believe Satan was a "fallen angel" of God, the same as we do? Isaiah 14

And who created the angels of Heaven but God? Indeed who created all beings that exist and ordained that they have choice whether to follow God or not?

Protestants and I believe even Catholics believe that God created humans and angels, which are different species of God's creation. Angels are heavenly beings, while humans are earthly beings.

Mormons believe the answer is God, which makes Christ and Satan (and all of the rest of us too, not just them) spirit brothers and sisters as a technicality, but we don't think of Satan exactly as a family member in good standing. More of a disowned family member, not the type you'd get together with and say, watch the game with or something.

And the difference here with Protestants and Catholics is that God didn't create Christ because Christ is God. Christ is not a created being, he his eternal, he is the great I AM. Satan is a fallen angel and angels are created beings, therefore making Christ and Satan spirit brothers, seems blasphemous to non-LDS.

If anti mormons don't believe God created Satan, then who do they believe created him?

Some anti-mormons are atheists, so that could be one reason. But non-LDS in general, whether anti or not, do not see Satan and Christ as equal creations, since Christ is so above Satan as being the One that did the creating.

M.

[Hemidakota]

"If anti mormons don't believe God created Satan, then who do they believe created him?"

I have heard that only good comes from God and that Evil is its opposite I believe they call it dualism like North pole vs South pole it just is(no explanation) , thats just one theory

Christianity need Satan for this purpose"to bring to pass the imortality and eternal life of man" :)

[/QUOT

I usually do not worry about those who are considered atheists but who are considered members that apostatize and fight against GOD's servants.

[MikeUpton]

Some anti-mormons are atheists, so that could be one reason. But non-LDS in general, whether anti or not, do not see Satan and Christ as equal creations, since Christ is so above Satan as being the One that did the creating.

M.

Good points, and it taught me why this argument might seem convincing to someone who was not familiar with the Church.

We also do not see Christ and Satan as equal, not because of the question of their creation, but due to their choices. We believe Christ is literally the Son of God and part of the Godhead, but he achieved this status because he was the only one righteous enough. Satan, as spoken of in the scripture i posted from Isaiah, fell because of the choices he made to become who he is.

The question of whether Christ and Satan are spirit brothers is used for one effect by anti mormons: to devalue the belief that the LDS have of Jesus Christ. Because of how shocking it sounds to say so and so are related in a familial sense. For anybody who believed Angels were a different species than man, but were brothers within their species, you could have someone say these people believe such and such angel is the brother of Satan, its a shocking thing to say and seems to devalue the people's belief in the first angel. Or perhaps if you were of the belief angels and humankind could call each other brothers and sister, you could say Mother Theresa was the sister of Satan and get the same effect on a smaller scale. Its still a stupid point though, and its done all for show. There's no merit to it whatsoever.

Think about what it sounds like when you say Satan is a son of God.

Mormons do not believe whether or not someone is created devalues who they are. So in this case anti mormons are apparently leaving things half in the context of Protestantism, half (in the most negative perspective possible) in the context of Mormonism, so their point is fully out of context anyways, and gives the wrong impression.

Edited May 30, 2009 by MikeUpton
5th grade level english skills

[MikeUpton]

(new subtopic so double post, if this is bad sue me)

There was a story going around my mission that went something like this: On my mission there was a prominent anti-mormon couple who lived not so far from the mission president. Not too long before the mission president before mine finished his mission, he sent a thank you card to the anti mormon couple, thanking them for all of the work they did against the church. The reason was, he said, that every time they went about working against the church, it raised awareness of the church amongst the people, and they ended up getting a lot of baptisms from the publicity. As I remember hearing, the anti-mormon couple was pretty upset.