Bars, Restaurants, Nightclubs, etc - living in the world without being a part of the world

[JPL1234]

How do you all feel about going to establishments that serve alcohol? Do you see this as fine so long as you are not drinking alcohol?

I live in a city where there are very few LDS members, and all my friends and family are not part of the Church.

I think that if you live in a place like SLC, its easy. Most are LDS, events are LDS friendly etc so your social life is not limited.

There is also a fine line between a restaurant and a bar. For those whom say they will not go into a bar, many and most restaurants in most cities have bar areas and the "drinkers" may come out in force later in the evenings.

When I go to picnics, fairs, festivals, bbq's, birthday parties, etc., there is alcohol around.

I have no problem drinking my diet pop, but is it considered "unmormonly" to even

be at these place?

Just wondering where you all stand on this issue?

[pam]

If you are talking about a place whose sole purpose is to sell alcohol, I say no. We are to avoid even the appearance of evil.

But I live in the SLC area. There are many restaurants I frequent such as Chili's, TGIFridays, Iggys Sports Grill, Olive Garden that have bars within the restaurant. Just because I go there doesn't mean I have to indulge in those services as well. I have even taken my kids to them.

Even office parties there has been alcohol. Don't think just because it's in the SLC area that those parties don't have alcohol. Not everyone is LDS so you will find the beer and the alcohol there as well. Again, doesn't mean I have to indulge.

Now if you were to go to an LDS function...and there was alcohol...THAT would be a problem. haha

[the Ogre]

I have no problem drinking my diet pop, but is it considered "unmormonly" to even be at these place?

Just wondering where you all stand on this issue?

No ("unmormonly" what a cool word). I like restaurants and most of the good ones have a good bar. I like to go to restaurants by myself and often the only place to eat is going to be at the bar. That means dealing with the bartender. I order from him/her and make sure I order a variety of drinks as long as none of them involve alcohol. I often ask: "uhhh, dude, I'm a mormon, watta ya got that won't get me in trouble?" A good bartender always has something. If not, I buy the $3 sprite and mildly give him [crap] (but I still tip: "get some mormons drinks, dude").

I even like some bars. Many of my best friends in South Korea aren't LDS. They like bars and night clubs (and noribang). They know I don't drink, smoke, dance, or sing particularly well, but I drive better even when they are sober and I'm generally bigger than the bouncer if things go the wrong way (they never do, Korean are typically silly drunks) and my Korean gets better the drunker they get.

It does not matter where I am, I am always a Latter-day Saint.

I do not go to biker bars, strip-clubs, or seek extreme entertainment. My friends never invite me. However, to exclude the best restaurants in the world because they have a great bar would be very wrong in my opinion. Food is a major component of culture and I love learning about new cultures. It is wrong to on business to a place like London and not go pubbing with potential business partners or the local reps. You don't have to drink. I've even walked the Edinburgh mile when I was there with AMEX and I was the only one who made it without barfing or peeing my pants. WOOT!

Edited May 29, 2009 by the Ogre

[prospectmom]

I don't think so as long as you donnot lower your standards..... Bars are satans pit as far as I am concerned ..... That is from being a bartender for years and seeing all that happens to people who frequent them , the desensitization of a person..... what was totally wrong eventually seems ok and then fore SOME it is a slippery slide down.

I also think that a person who does go out with friends and sets the right example is fine as watching people drink can be a real amusing experience........

There are adults who do act responsibily while drinking and your good influence on them may pay rewards in the end.......

[Guest TheLutheran]

JPL . . . please forgive me for intruding on your thread but I have a related question. How do you feel about LDS business owners who serve coffee and/or alcohol in their establisments and conduct business on Sunday?

If you would prefer I take a hike with this, JPL, just lemme know!

[Soul_Searcher]

No problem atall. I feel its normal. My family have alcohol in their houses, we go to pubs, clubs and restaurants all the time. I don't drink, but I am not obsessed about avoiding alcohol. Thats silly. I have no problem being around it. I dont like being around people if most of them are drunk, however, purely because it is no fun whatsover for a non-drinker! me and my hubby go into pubs every week, if not for a meal, then in the summer we will have a drink and sit outside. Its part of our culture.

[Saguaro]

I don't think there's anything wrong with going to social events or restaurants where alcohol is served. I don't live in Utah either, and most restaurants here have bars, but I have no desire to go to places that are just bars or night clubs. Sometimes being the only one not drinking at an event can be an opportuntiy to talk about the gospel when people ask you if you don't drink.

Utah seems to in a world of its own in this regard, I don't understand why they insist on trying to pass laws that make it illegal to even have alochol in site at a restaurant, it has to be hidden behind a curtain. Do they think if kids walk into a restaurant and see a liquor bottle behind the bar that they are going to want to become drinkers? Where I live every grocery store has a liquor section, we walk through it every time we go shopping to go from the bakery to the deli. Doesn't bother me or my kids at all. Actually I think it's amusing to look at the prices on some of those bottles and wonder why anyone would pay so much to drink.

Alot also depends a lot on where you live. I served my mission in Spain and we would often go into bars to get a soda or use the bathroom. Families with children would hang out at bars and cafes, it's just part of the culture. I recently returned to Spain for the first time with my wife, the first town we stopped at we went into a bar to have lunch. It brought back great memories.

[Elgama]

At the nearly middle aged with young children its not an issue lol

But when I was at college and last years of high school I went to pubs and clubs with my friends, like soulsearcher I had no problem as I was never tempted I grew up around alcohol and it was no big deal for me to say NO. If I did struggle to say no I would not go. I found my influence helped other people also say no I was used as their excuse to stay on soft drinks all night. Also had I stayed in my room all the time and not gone out the missionaries would have not been as well received amongst my college friends. We have a couple of people who went to uni and did not go out with friends and no freely admit it was a mistake.

The people I went with knew I did not drink and so by the end of the night did most people who did not know me. My simple rule was to always buy my own drink

-Charley

[hordak]

I'm with saguaro and soul searcher on this. Accesses to booze doesn't make one drink. I have kept alcohol in the house for entertaining friends and family for the last 5 years and have never drank it. Funny thing is of the 5 years I have done this only about 8 months were spent as an active church member trying to keep the WoW.

[the Ogre]

My simple rule was to always buy my own drink

Charley, that is an incredible rule. Unfortunately in Korea, that doesn't happen. It is rude to pour your own or buy for yourself when out with a group (and Koreans do everything in groups; the bigger the better). I have to be very vigilant!!!

[pam]

Utah seems to in a world of its own in this regard, I don't understand why they insist on trying to pass laws that make it illegal to even have alochol in site at a restaurant, it has to be hidden behind a curtain

It's funny...Most of the restaurants I go to in Utah the bar is the pretty much the first area you walk in to. Where you get the idea it's hidden "behind a curtain" is beyond me.

[the Ogre]

Do you know what's funny. My oldest son is a chef. He lives at home and uses my kitchen to cater events from. I have so much booze in the house I could start a private club. I watch him cook and I can smell the stuff on the air (as a recovering alcoholic that is challenging). He knows what to cook so it still has booze in it and how to make sure it doesn't. I wonder if I should put up a mormon-curtain in the kitchen?

[Elgama]

Charley, that is an incredible rule. Unfortunately in Korea, that doesn't happen. It is rude to pour your own or buy for yourself when out with a group (and Koreans do everything in groups; the bigger the better). I have to be very vigilant!!!

I bet - I only ever once let someone buy me a drink my lemonade came back with vodka in it because person concerned was too embarrased to ask for lemonade

-Charley

[ADoyle90815]

Starbucks and other coffee houses also sell drinks that don't have coffee or real tea in them, in fact they often have great hot chocolate and pastries. Where I live, grocery stores sell all types of alcohol, so someone who is LDS has to avoid that section of the store, as well as the coffee aisle, and the Starbucks counter. Some Target stores even sell wine, including my local one. The only way one can really avoid alcohol is to stay out of bars that don't serve food. Most of the LDS population here does just fine going to a restaurant even though alcohol is available for sale.

Edited May 29, 2009 by ADoyle90815

[pam]

Starbucks Strawberries and Cream rocks.

[Saguaro]

It's funny...Most of the restaurants I go to in Utah the bar is the pretty much the first area you walk in to. Where you get the idea it's hidden "behind a curtain" is beyond me.

Let me clarify, I said "trying to pass laws that make it illegal to even have alochol in site at a restaurant", key word being trying. If I recall correctly, and I may be recalling incorrectly, there was poposed legislation that would require all alcohol at a bar or restaurant to be behind a non see through partition, but the bill failed, I looked but couldn't find an article about it to link to. Actually, Utah's liquor laws were recently relaxed, a rule that the bar and restaruant areas had to be separated by a partition has been done away with.

Deseret News | It's (Zion) 'curtains' for restaurant booze barriers

[Seanette]

Starbucks and other coffee houses also sell drinks that don't have coffee or real tea in them, in fact they often have great hot chocolate and pastries. Where I live, grocery stores sell all types of alcohol, so someone who is LDS has to avoid that section of the store, as well as the coffee aisle, and the Starbucks counter. Some Target stores even sell wine, including my local one. The only way one can really avoid alcohol is to stay out of bars that don't serve food. Most of the LDS population here does just fine going to a restaurant even though alcohol is available for sale.

I like the Starbucks blended cream drinks, which do not include coffee or tea. They also have good caramel apple cider in the fall.

I do not have any alcoholic beverages in my home. In part, that's due to my position on the Word of Wisdom, in part due to a strong history of alcoholism on both sides of my family (I'm a convert). I'm high-risk for addiction and I'm very aware of it, so choose not to have that possible temptation in my home. My husband, raised LDS, considers my position reasonable and goes along with me.

Here in California, most grocery stores sell liquor. I just ignore those displays (along with the coffee, tea, and tobacco). I'll eat in a restaurant that serves alcohol (not a whole lot above fast-food level don't), but make a point of ordering in accordance with the Word of Wisdom (confuses the staff at some Chinese restaurants when we tell them "no tea, please"). As for hanging out in a bar (to me, this means a business that primarily exists to serve alcohol, with any food or soft drinks a minor sideline), nope, not happening. Aside from how obnoxious most drunks are, there is the "avoid the appearance of evil" factor. There are places I'd rather not have my bishop see me walking into or out of. :)

Reminds me of an amusing moment: early in my marriage, I had gone up to a grocery store a few blocks from our apartment, and there was a "liquor store" in the same shopping center (in CA, these are convenience stores that sell a lot of non-liquor products as well). Saw our home teacher in there, stuck my head in and greeted him. While he was returning the greeting, he made a point of showing me what he was getting: Gatorade.

[pam]

I grew up in California. Going into a liquor store there was like going into a 7-11. They sold so much more than just liquor.

[Seanette]

I grew up in California. Going into a liquor store there was like going into a 7-11. They sold so much more than just liquor.

Very true. Did take me some getting used to, though. I grew up in Oregon, where "liquor store" means a store run by the state that is devoted to sales of hard liquor (beer and wine were sold in grocery stores and such there too).

[pam]

That's how it is here in Utah though wine must be sold in the state run liquor stores. Beer can be sold in grocery and convenience stores.

[Moksha]

Starbucks' Strawberries and Cream rocks.

They make a pretty good skinny decaf mocha latte as well, do they not?

Just stay away from the espressos, it is the hard stuff and a shot of it will have you seeing visions of Perdition.

[Soul_Searcher]

Do you know what's funny. My oldest son is a chef. He lives at home and uses my kitchen to cater events from. I have so much booze in the house I could start a private club. I watch him cook and I can smell the stuff on the air (as a recovering alcoholic that is challenging). He knows what to cook so it still has booze in it and how to make sure it doesn't. I wonder if I should put up a mormon-curtain in the kitchen?

I have no problem eating food with alcohol cooked into it. I have considered using it myself as a lot of recipes call for it as a base like stock or soups. My MIL obsessively searches for things like christmas pudding that are 100% alcohol free wheras I have no problem, its cooked out for crying out loud. I wish I could tell her vinegar is alcohol that has not been fermented but then she'd probablyu never eat it again!

I think the main problem we as members are guilty of is seeing alcohol as 'bad' and 'wrong'. Just because we do not drink it does not make it some sort of devilish evil substance. The Saviour even drank alcohol and dont tell me it was 'grape juice' because that is rubbish as a) water wasn't safe to drink then and b) The word of wisdom didnt exist so there was no reason for him not to drink it. Alcohol is something we personally choose to abstain from. It is only bad when misused, something that can apply to a lot of things. So why people feel the need to avoid it as if the will 'catch' the sin or somehow become an alcoholic just from being in the same room need to re-asses their lives a little!

[Soul_Searcher]

Ogre I just realised that last comment may have sounded like I was having a go at you. If you are a recovering al coholic, of course it would be difficult for you to be in the same room, I was in no way belittling our post. I was referring to people who have never tasted alcohol like life long members. Just wanted to make that clear!

[Carl62]

As someone who has played in bands for 20+ years, I've played in hundreds of bars, taverns, nightclubs, you name it, and I've never once given in to tempation because of one simple reason-I just don't have the desire to drink alcohol! Yes, I've tried it (teenager) and yes, you can have it. It's never tempted me once. I just stick with my ole' standby of pepsi or root beer. The only time I experienced any kind of temptation was when we were the opening act at a strip club (no, I'm not kidding!). Even then, after we were done I just went and packed up my stuff and then left (although watching the girls walk around as we were packing up was quite easy on the eyes.:Dlol)

Edited May 30, 2009 by Carl62

[the Ogre]

Ogre I just realised that last comment may have sounded like I was having a go at you. If you are a recovering al coholic, of course it would be difficult for you to be in the same room, I was in no way belittling our post. I was referring to people who have never tasted alcohol like life long members. Just wanted to make that clear!

I actually liked your post. We are all clear. I am very vigilant and suspicious of the beverage and my intentions for them. I am also very knowledgible about food and the alcohol in them. If I were going to a reastaurant with another member and they did not know what would still have booze in it, I could generally answer. I can almost always tell by smell and my reaction to it.

A word of advice, be very suspicious of desserts especially the oh so yummy sweet, moist, and fruity tasting chocolate cakes.