What is a "Church record"?

[Vort]

In another thread, someone wrote: "When disfellowshipped it goes on a persons church record."

I have heard this kind of thing all my life, but as I have never held a ward-level or higher priesthood leadership position, I have no direct experience with it. What exactly is a "Church record"? Is this to say that somewhere in Salt Lake, there is a file cabinet with forms that say, "Brother So-and-so was disfellowshipped at 24 for reaching down his fiancee's shirt"? What is this used for? Is it consulted if someone is called to a leadership position or something?

What else goes into your Church record? Is it like the "permanent file" that our grade school teachers always threatened us with if we didn't shape up? If you were an ineffective missionary, does your mission president write a note for your Church record about your lack of exhibiting leadership or getting things done?

I'm not saying I necessarily disagree with or disapprove of such a thing. I'm just curious what it is.

[Dravin]

I've always assumed it was a list of such things as Address, Age, Sex, Name (and family), Ordination, Baptism and Confirmation dates, Tithing, Fast Offerings and the like. Kinda like how they talk about transferring your records from one ward to another. Don't know if they append notes to it, and I've had it told me that Salt Lake has a department for lost records (Somebody isn't in the ward and we don't know where to send the records).

Don't know if all that stuff is backed up in Salt Lake, wouldn't surprise me though, you wouldn't want to have to remake all the records if a meeting house burned down.

[bmy-]

I've always assumed it was a list of such things as Address, Age, Sex, Name (and family), Ordination, Baptism and Confirmation dates, Tithing, Fast Offerings and the like. Kinda like how they talk about transferring your records from one ward to another. Don't know if they append notes to it, and I've had it told me that Salt Lake has a department for lost records (Somebody isn't in the ward and we don't know where to send the records).

Don't know if all that stuff is backed up in Salt Lake, wouldn't surprise me though, you wouldn't want to have to remake all the records if a meeting house burned down.

As far as i'm aware records are not sent to Salt Lake.. at least not always. I had to fill out my papers more than once because they got lost.

[Dravin]

As far as i'm aware records are not sent to Salt Lake.. at least not always. I had to fill out my papers more than once because they got lost.

My experience with records is as a Missionary and with lost records being them getting lost on the way to Salt Lake or on the way from Salt Lake to the convert's ward, which if you stop and think about it implies they don't have a back-up else they wouldn't recreate just resend in the latter case.

[Just_A_Guy]

As I understand MIS, there's actually a central server in Salt Lake that the local ward computer system will tap into. So, your records are technically both in SLC and in your local ward. When I was serving in the 3rd world, though, a lot of local wards weren't tied into MIS (I don't know if that has changed). I wonder if some membership clerks just have an aversion to dealing with the SLC bureaucracy over lost records and immediately throw in the towel when something doesn't look right.

The CHI mentions that some disciplinary actions--but not all--are going to be noted on one's membership records. It's been a while since I saw it (though it's available on-line via Wikileaks, if you have no moral compunctions about that sort of thing). My recollection is that informal probation is *not* noted on one's records, but that excommunication, disfellowshipment, and possibly formal probation are.

[YellowLight]

I know when we requested to have our names removed from church records, the local bishop had to send the records to SLC. However, I think it was more of a verification thing than anything.

[BenRaines]

While it is true that the "records" are kept in SLC and each ward, based on their ward id, is assigned those names residing in their geographical boundries. When someone moves and does not give a forwarding address, usually someone less active, then those records are sent to SLC, to a general account.

There are service missionaries who do all they can to find where these people have moved so that their records can be assigned to the ward where they live. This is true of all records.

As far as what information is on these records it is a record of ordinances and ordinations. For those who have had a disciplinary action it is a record of the result of that action. In the case of a Stake disciplinary action these records are kept in the stake where they happened. When a person comes back in for reversal of that action the records is sent to where they reside at the time and the Stake President where they reside contacts former Stake President, if possible to get any additional information.

It does not show callings held, How many years you were a tithe payor or not.

Ben Raines

[Mahone]

My experience with records is as a Missionary and with lost records being them getting lost on the way to Salt Lake or on the way from Salt Lake to the convert's ward, which if you stop and think about it implies they don't have a back-up else they wouldn't recreate just resend in the latter case.

Oh believe me, they have a backup With a database as large of the churches, it would cause utter mayhem if the data was lost - the IT team know this and I suspect they'd have backups made each day ranging back several months. I suspect the reason for recreating lost records is an administrative one. BenRaines is correct in everything he said as far as I know, I was the MIS operative for a while in my ward.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Mahone

[foreverafter]

It would only be fair & right to let members read whatever their file says about them if they request it. I believe your bishop has the records for his own members. I don't think the church keeps anything secret on someone & wouldn't tell them. So if curious, just go ask your bishop to show you your record.

Edited July 1, 2009 by foreverafter

[Mahone]

It would only be fair & right to let members read whatever their file says about them if they request it. I believe your bishop has the records for his own members. I don't think the church keeps anything secret on someone & wouldn't tell them. So if curious, just go ask your bishop to show you your record.

That is true. You are legally allowed that information here under the freedom of information act anyway. With few exceptions, you are allowed to see what data any company or organisation holds about you.

[Moksha]

So it is not a dosier where the best gossip is kept?

That is a relief.

[Saguaro]

If you want to see your membership record just ask your Ward Clerk or your Membership Clerk, they can easily print you a copy, no need to bother the Bishop, you don't need his permission.

In our ward when you come in for tithing settlement at the end of the year the clerks have a copy of your family's records printed out for you to review and keep. It's a good way to catch errors or update information. It's not unheard of to find out that one of your children's baby blessing's was never properly recorded.

[BenRaines]

It is not the type of record most seem to be worried about. It is a record of ordinances performed, dates, etc.

Not "He and his wife sit in the third row from the back to the right of the Bishop, she keeps giving him back massages and playing with his hair and she clips the children's fingernails during Sacrament meeting". Not that type of record.

Sheeesh

Ben Raines

[qedd]

If you are interested in how technology is used within the Church and some insight into the collection, storage, use, and retention of information, you can check out the LDS Technology Website at LDSTech. Many ward and stake clerks and Church employees use this site to discuss the latest bugs and workarounds in MLS in addition to a plethora of other tech topics that may or may not interest you (i.e., broadband in ward houses, interbuilding broadcasts of stake conference, etc.).

[skippy740]

It is not the type of record most seem to be worried about. It is a record of ordinances performed, dates, etc.

Not "He and his wife sit in the third row from the back to the right of the Bishop, she keeps giving him back massages and playing with his hair and she clips the children's fingernails during Sacrament meeting". Not that type of record.

Sheeesh

Ben Raines

I thought a "Church Record" was those black vinyl things before CDs that had songs like "I'm a Mormon" &/or "Mormon Rap".

No?

[Palerider]

Also included on your church membership record is.....mission served and what lanquage and if you have been called as a Bishop.....when someone moves out....you send that record to Salt Lake or wait for the new ward to request it....there can be court actions recorded with a message when you get it ...if it involves someone who just moved in asking you to contact previous Bishop....you can always go in and ask the clerk to view it....the computer record will show more info than the hardcopy....unless this has all changed in the last 2yrs.

[tubaloth]

I'm not sure what else shows up on the computer that doesn't show up on your church record. But really there is an Ordinances Summary and your Membership Record. They actually look pretty similar, but I think they are different (I can't remember in what way). Usually what members get is there Ordiances Summary.

Most of what is "put" on your records is a note. Also the Bishop can lock the record to a ward, so it can't be tranfered out. Some can be done through the computer, some has to be done at the stake level. Others I think has to be a call to salt lake or a letter to salt lake. But yes everything does go through SLC.

[pam]

Every time I look at the menu of topics..all I see is "What is a Church.....

Each time I think..I need to post a picture of a Church so people know what one is.

[pentecorman]

Actually, there are confidential marks placed on your record that only your Bishop (or Stake Pres) has access to. I learned this when I inquired about becoming a CES teacher. They said you cannot be divorved and you cannot have been disfellowshipped or exed. I inquired "how would you know if I were?" I was told that there was an astrisk at a certain spot on your record that indicated this fact of your past. It is also used for scout callings and any calling when working with the youth.

As a parent I think this is great. However, as a person I think it dismisses true repentance and permanantly brands people. Terrible!

[Mahone]

However, as a person I think it dismisses true repentance and permanantly brands people. Terrible!

I've wondered this myself. Once again personal circumstances are not taken into account, everyone in that situation is tarred with the same brush.

[BenRaines]

Scouting callings matter if you have been divorced? I know my father has a mark on his record for something he served time for. So he can never serve in the Primary. This is not marking him. This is protecting the youth. He would not serve in Scouting either. Divorce has nothing to do with serving in Scouting. Pedophile will have something to do with it.

Ben Raines

[pentecorman]

That's right.

[qedd]

Actually, there are confidential marks placed on your record that only your Bishop (or Stake Pres) has access to. I learned this when I inquired about becoming a CES teacher. They said you cannot be divorved and you cannot have been disfellowshipped or exed. I inquired "how would you know if I were?" I was told that there was an astrisk at a certain spot on your record that indicated this fact of your past. It is also used for scout callings and any calling when working with the youth.

As a parent I think this is great. However, as a person I think it dismisses true repentance and permanantly brands people. Terrible!

Permanent marks are far and few between -- those that pose a danger to children, etc. are a concern however. There is little or nothing that would tell a bishop or branch president that a person had been the subject of Church discipline in the past. The Church is big on repentance and on moving forward. Priesthood leadership and clerks are directed to destroy records of disciplinary proceedings once they are no longer needed (i.e., the individual has been brought back into full fellowship, etc.).

When a member moves between units (wards or branches), the previous bishop or branch president can request that the next bishop or branch president contact him. But this is usually to discuss current issues or concerns (which may include cases of individuals that are moving around frequently attempting to take advantage of Church welfare).

The Church really isn't in the business of building a detailed dossier on each of us. Indiscriminately branding individuals for life would defeat the purpose of repentance, forgiveness, mercy, and the mission of the Church (bringing souls unto Christ).

[havejoy]

If having been disfellowshipped in the past kept us from getting callings there would be a lot more of us getting disfellowshipped.

I said something to my last Bishop about having been disfellowshipped a long time ago and he seemed genuinely surprised. However, if there was something in someones past that made it dangerous for them to be around children then the Church has a legal obligation to make sure the children are protected.

[pentecorman]

If there is something in someone's past, and he/she repents, then is that person still a threat? Is he/she still the subject of questionable intent? How?