Need Bishoply Advice

[MorningStar]

My 2 cents worth.

I believe we should help those we can. You can not help this lady and a restraining order, unless your going to enforce every violation of it, will not do you much good I am thinking.

If what you are saying is accurate then this is a disturbed lady who needs help beyond your ability. From experience Relief Society or Bishops are still untrained people who have little more idea then you on what to do. That being said I suggest you meet with the Bishop and fully explain both the problem and what solutions (restraining order, moving, switching wards etc) you are considering. As the last post said document but not only future issues but as much as you can remember about the past. ( hint, from a legal perspective write them in your own hand, date and sign each entry. Computer entries used to not be usable in court as the writer was not able to be verified. Might have changed by now.) Take this information into the Bishop and tell him you need to work out a solution.

He might need to bring it to the Stake etc but something needs to be done. If she is suffering from depression or some other mental issue no member of the Ward is secure, and keep a close eye on your children, if she gets frustrated with you they may be easy targets to get even. If you try and ignore it she might latch onto someone else and if something happened you might have regrets about it.

Last of my two cents worth is this. You mentioned she acted suicidal. Maybe she is maybe she isn't. It makes no difference in your life at all. If you have done all you can reasonably do to help, if you don't invite these things to happen then you are not responsible for her actions at all. The Lord has taught me something that I have used often this year. If we are not responsible for something or someone then we are not accountable for the consequences to the Lord. If she kills herself that is all about her and nothing whatsoever about you. But if you allow her to use the threat to put yourself in a bad situation then something happens to you or a loved on then you are accountable because you are responsible to protect your loved ones.

Hope this helps some.

Thank you. That's very helpful. :)

[lilered]

First of all I am not a Lawyer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express! I would recommend you draft a letter to the Bishop and Stake President, advising them of the situation, and request that you be allowed to attend a different ward as well as request that all personal information including your phone number not be given out or used in any ward or stake publication. Fourth, would seek the advise of a Legal Attorney concerning the use of a Restraining Order including the possiblity of him drafting a letter advising her to cease contacting you for any reason and threating a lawsuit.

[lilered]

While I am not a Lawyer, I did stay at a Hoiday Inn Express.

First I would recommend you draft a letter to both your Bishop and Stake President. I would not give too many details but let them know you feel harrassed and wish to be allowed to attend another ward. I would also let them know that you intend on seeking counsel from a Lawyer concerning the filing of a Restraining Order on the individual. Second, I woudl also include a request that your personal information including your phone and address not be given out under any circumstances including ward membership lists. Third: I would get a different phone number (Unplublished). Fourth: Seek the benefit of Legal Counsel concering a restraining order. Good Luck

[Danite]

ok folks he's the deal you must get permission from your stake president to attend another ward, this how i've seen done in the past. beleive me he'll give you permission

[miztrniceguy]

my family are planning to attend a new ward starting tomorrow, because we disagree with some of the things being done. we have not and are not asking permission to do so.

[Jenniguin]

I know that your bishop has been given responsibility for you as a member of his particular ward. You really ought to talk to him. He has been given that mantle to help you. Have you talked to him?

-Jenny;)

[MorningStar]

Hi Jenny,

I will talk to him about it and see what he suggests. I love our ward so much, but I don't love the stress it's been going to church the last 4 months. When it seemed she was (maybe) done, I went out to the parking lot one day after church and she had been waiting for me for quite some time out there so she could see me find the sack of empty baby food containers she left hanging on my van. It didn't even dawn on me at first that she had put them there. I stared at it in bewilderment and thought, "Did someone think this garbage is mine and I dropped it in the parking lot, so they hung it on my mirror?"

Then she pulled up next to me and said, "Hi, I was waiting out here for you so I could give those to you, so I just put it there."

Me: : O

Her: You mentioned that you wanted to try making your own baby food, so I've been saving those for you. (This was very soon after the RS pres. told her to stop contacting me.)

Me: Oh ..... (I had no idea how to handle that one on the spot.) Uhhhhh ...... Thanks.

Her: If you don't want them, you can give them back to me.

She held her arm out to take them back, but I was really uncomfortable with walking towards her, so I just put the sack in my van and nervously walked around to the driver's side. I'm surprised her husband went along with the whole waiting in the parking lot bit. I think I didn't exit the building until close to 30 minutes after church ended. I probably handled that all wrong and she decided that me speaking two words to her (even though I must've looked like a deer in headlights) was a green light for some "friendly" communication. She called a couple days later to say she wanted to give me her couch (voicemail again) and wondered how the baby food containers were working for me. So nothing lately has been of a "someone is going to commit suicide if you don't talk to me" nature, but I wonder if she is slowly creeping in that direction again.

One person thinks she needs "closure" because she thought we were "BFF" (No, really. She's just acting clueless because she wants sympathy). Another who feels mildly stalked by her thinks it would be fruitless to give her any kind of explanation. If I write to her even to say go away, she might see it as progress. If I write a long explanation about why I no longer want any interaction with her, she will see it as an opportunity to explain all inappropriate behavior and I will have (supposedly) misunderstood pretty much everything. Or she might get really aggravated and do who knows what. If I knew something would help for sure, I would do it. The last RS pres. wanted me to teach her about acting normal. She said, "You have a responsibility because she likes you a lot!" All right, well it didn't work. At all. One of the last major e-mails she wrote to me, she said, "You can call me if you still like me, cause I don't feel liked by anyone right now. I didn't do anything to anyone." She will eventually have to admit that she does do stuff to people if she wants to have a chance of making and keeping friends.

Anyway, I never know what kind of surprises I might run into at church. I stopped going into the mother's lounge so I won't be trapped into a conversation with her. Tomorrow we're going to my sister's ward for my niece's baby blessing and I'll see about catching the bishop the week after that.

[Guest TheLutheran]

. . . I'll spare you the details. . . .

Wow!! I wonder what this thread would be like if you spilled the beans??

Clearly this woman has social issues, and quite possibly mental issues. I'm sorry that you have been caught in the crosshairs -- its annoying, frightening and frustrating. Perhaps the most compassionate manner of handling this situation is to quietly begin attending a different ward (with your leader's permission, if that is required.)

[Connie]

Wow, freaky situation! Hope everything works out for the best! :)

[havejoy]

MorningStar, I had a situation a bit like yours a few years ago. I tried everything I could think of on my own and then finally went to my Bishop. He called her in and talked to her and specifically told her to not contact me again. ever.

She did talk to me that night and asked why I had gone to the Bishop and I looked her directly in the eyes and told her it was because she wouldn't leave me alone and I really needed her to.

It got a lot better after that. Now she and I can have the occasional friendly conversation and I don't feel too uncomfortable.

She is bipolar though and had gotten to the point where her meds needed to be tweaked.

I guess what I'm trying to say is go to your Bishop. You might be amazed at how much weight his counsel will carry with her.

[MorningStar]

Wow!! I wonder what this thread would be like if you spilled the beans??

Clearly this woman has social issues, and quite possibly mental issues. I'm sorry that you have been caught in the crosshairs -- its annoying, frightening and frustrating. Perhaps the most compassionate manner of handling this situation is to quietly begin attending a different ward (with your leader's permission, if that is required.)

Yeah, really! What would it look like? (Sadly, even worse.) There's a ward that we might be able to move into in September (still waiting on word about that), so I think that would be the one we would choose. We're also waiting to hear about which group of buildings my husband is going to be over with his new job (he's still training), so that would determine where we would move. We will probably know this month. Hopefully not down south because he is going to school up north. :) Or we could make my mom's dreams come true by going to her ward, but it's a little far to go and there's no way Visiting/Home Teachers would come this far. Well, I'll run into that problem anywhere I suppose.

[MorningStar]

MorningStar, I had a situation a bit like yours a few years ago. I tried everything I could think of on my own and then finally went to my Bishop. He called her in and talked to her and specifically told her to not contact me again. ever.

She did talk to me that night and asked why I had gone to the Bishop and I looked her directly in the eyes and told her it was because she wouldn't leave me alone and I really needed her to.

It got a lot better after that. Now she and I can have the occasional friendly conversation and I don't feel too uncomfortable.

She is bipolar though and had gotten to the point where her meds needed to be tweaked.

I guess what I'm trying to say is go to your Bishop. You might be amazed at how much weight his counsel will carry with her.

Oh, thank you! That is really good to hear. I've actually been wondering if she is bipolar. I'm guessing her dad is too because it's common for people with the disorder to develop a drinking problem (he's an alcoholic and gambling addict - her mom stayed with him for many years until she finally had to leave in order to keep afloat financially, so I think she has a lot of learned codependent behaviors). Our bishop is new and a really great guy. Hopefully he could encourage her to get help, but especially get through to her husband who needs to support her through this. He has serious issues too, which I think have contributed to the mess she is now.

People in the ward feel the same - she can be a really nice person to talk to and you can have fun conversations with her, but she has no sense of boundaries, so you have to be her friend "from a distance".

When this situation became the most upsetting to me, I asked for a blessing. I was told I was an instrument in the Lord's hands and would come out of this stronger. Ignoring someone is very painful for me, but I felt like if I continued to do so, she would hit "rock bottom" so to speak and eventually get help. It would have been easy to humor her, tell her what she wanted to hear, and go back to dealing with her being a nuisance (which was wearing on me), but I felt strongly that that would not be helping her at all. She would enjoy life so much more with some help.

[Moksha]

The Bishop's decision sounds good. I think he would focus on how to prevent further harassment if both are allowed to attend the same Church.

However, you forgot to add that this decision as to "If" needs to be clarified with an officer of the courts, since it is a judicial restraining order. Based on that, the Bishop can proceed with how best to accomplish this in a way to maintain the best spiritual experience for all involved with minimal discomfort and no more harrassment.

[Vort]

Hope things went better today.

[MorningStar]

Hope things went better today.

Thank you. :) Today was great because I went to my sister's ward. My niece was blessed, we had a wonderful luncheon (with chocolate trifle), my brother came to visit (who recently became a cop and I forget I can ask him all sorts of handy things - he said there is a "civil restraining order" vs. a criminal one), and I got to see my nieces and nephew too. My nephew looked happier than I have ever seen him and he is still progressing with his Autism therapy. He is the sweetest!

[Seanette]

ok folks he's the deal you must get permission from your stake president to attend another ward, this how i've seen done in the past. beleive me he'll give you permission

If my stake president is typical, they do try hard to accommodate unusual needs (DH and I have to be in an afternoon ward due to his work schedule, if we want to be active, so we'll be switching wards from year to year between two that meet at the stake center, and we live in a third ward's boundaries).

[miztrniceguy]

i didn't ask permission....but then my records aren't being transferred, which doesn't bother me.

[Iggy]

Tomorrow we're going to my sister's ward for my niece's baby blessing and I'll see about catching the bishop the week after that.

Why wait to speak to your Bishop only on a Sunday? He is your Bishop 24/7 until he is released.

Give him a call NOW- um, perhaps wait until he gets home from work.

[havejoy]

I just realized you were asking about R.O. so here's what I know about the law in Texas pertaining to a R.O.

I got one against my ex-husband after we were divorced because he became a threatening stalker. I asked the judge specifically about church because ours was the only ward in town. The judge said that was my ex-husbands problem because there are no exceptions to a restraining order. I could go to the church but he couldn't if he "had reason to believe" I would be there. This meant he could go to the church on Tuesday night for the basketball games they always had but he could not go to Sacrament and other meetings where I would be expected to be.

[MorningStar]

Why wait to speak to your Bishop only on a Sunday? He is your Bishop 24/7 until he is released.

Give him a call NOW- um, perhaps wait until he gets home from work.

Well, it's not an urgent situation at the moment and I'd rather talk to him in person about it. I especially don't want to bother him on a family night. If things were escalating again to a level that scared me (at the worst point, I was parking in a different location where she wouldn't see my van), I would definitely call him. I also have to prepare for the possibility that involving him could make things worse. I think with my health having improved now, I could tolerate it. Her timing of the straw that broke the camel's back could not have been worse for me, but I think in a way, it was actually meant to be because this is rock bottom for her.

[MorningStar]

i didn't ask permission....but then my records aren't being transferred, which doesn't bother me.

Doesn't that affect whether you can get a temple recommend, hold a calling, etc.?

[MorningStar]

I just realized you were asking about R.O. so here's what I know about the law in Texas pertaining to a R.O.

I got one against my ex-husband after we were divorced because he became a threatening stalker. I asked the judge specifically about church because ours was the only ward in town. The judge said that was my ex-husbands problem because there are no exceptions to a restraining order. I could go to the church but he couldn't if he "had reason to believe" I would be there. This meant he could go to the church on Tuesday night for the basketball games they always had but he could not go to Sacrament and other meetings where I would be expected to be.

How stressful! Did he leave you alone after that? I sure hope so.

So here's the latest. We had our usual playgroup that she hasn't gone to in months, so I was surprised when she showed up. It's become a pattern that when she sees me somewhere, within a couple days she will send me an e-mail. This time I didn't receive one and I was thinking, "Wow, congratulations on your restraint!"

I didn't get the mail for a few days though and there was a card postmarked two days after playgroup. I wondered when she would finally try snailmail. She is probably telling herself I just wasn't getting the e-mails. It didn't consist of anything like, "WHY WON'T YOU CALL ME? I'M SO DEPRESSED AND NO ONE LIKES ME!" but still goes against my request for no contact. I think because she was told she was upsetting me with her suicidal dad messages (which she attempted to excuse in one of her e-mails), she told herself it would be fine to contact me as long as it was friendly and positive (despite being told not to contact me under any circumstances). She said she missed me at church (was gone for my niece's blessing), gave me a bunch of compliments, told me she was just diagnosed with ADHD and is medicated (which I suppose is meant to excuse all bizarre behavior), asked if my kids and I can come over and play, said she hoped I still thought of her as a friend, was sorry how "things ended", says she thinks of me often (yes, I've noticed), and other random things. Oh yeah. She had also glued on a red paper heart to spell out, "I (heart) u, 'sister'." That actually made me cringe more than anything else in it.

Again, I ignored her and didn't so much as make eye contact with her at church today. Either she will accept that we will never have a friendship, start bringing me gifts again, or she will go through another cycle of anger/desperation.

[miztrniceguy]

It would only affect ability to get a temple recommend if you don't have one, or when current one expires. I do not have a desire to hold any callings at this time. Yesterday was 3rd week at previous ward, where we were before boundary change. Never thought during the 3 hours "isn't time to go yet?"

[havejoy]

Morningstar, My ex got really bad after that and ended up in prison. I had his parental rights terminated and my last name changed and we moved so I haven't seen him now in almost 23 years.

Maybe you are on the down hill side of this problem you're having now. If you don't acknowledge her letter and don't give her any attention at all, maybe she'll give up. That'll be my prayer for you situation.

[MorningStar]

Wow. I can't imagine going through that. Do you still worry that he'll find you?

One friend of mine believes that she won't keep this up forever. I hope she's right. I have an online friend who deals with troubled teens and she thinks the same thing applies here: It will get worse before it gets better. She said as it gets worse to tell myself, "What I'm doing is working." She also said any attention will just condition her to try for longer, so if after 6 months I talk to her for the sole purpose of telling her to go away, she is learning, "I can get her to talk to me after 6 months of being persistent." Then it would take longer next time. Thank you for the prayers. :)