Who do you say I am?

[antsyl]

I ask the same question that Christ asked his disciples, Who do you say I am?

Its not a trick question. I am actually interested in hearing from Mormons on this

question.

[Dravin]

You are Antsyl a (if your profile is accurate) 57 year old Christian man living in Richmond Virginia

[antsyl]

Gee thanks! now I can sleep.

[bytor2112]

If your asking who Mormons say that Christ is........

This is a pretty good summary: The Living Christ January 2000

As we commemorate the birth of Jesus Christ two millennia ago, we offer our testimony of the reality of His matchless life and the infinite virtue of His great atoning sacrifice. None other has had so profound an influence upon all who have lived and will yet live upon the earth.

He was the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament, the Messiah of the New. Under the direction of His Father, He was the creator of the earth. “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made” (John 1:3). Though sinless, He was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. He “went about doing good” (Acts 10:38), yet was despised for it. His gospel was a message of peace and goodwill. He entreated all to follow His example. He walked the roads of Palestine, healing the sick, causing the blind to see, and raising the dead. He taught the truths of eternity, the reality of our premortal existence, the purpose of our life on earth, and the potential for the sons and daughters of God in the life to come.

He instituted the sacrament as a reminder of His great atoning sacrifice. He was arrested and condemned on spurious charges, convicted to satisfy a mob, and sentenced to die on Calvary’s cross. He gave His life to atone for the sins of all mankind. His was a great vicarious gift in behalf of all who would ever live upon the earth.

We solemnly testify that His life, which is central to all human history, neither began in Bethlehem nor concluded on Calvary. He was the Firstborn of the Father, the Only Begotten Son in the flesh, the Redeemer of the world.

He rose from the grave to “become the firstfruits of them that slept” (1 Corinthians 15:20). As Risen Lord, He visited among those He had loved in life. He also ministered among His “other sheep” (John 10:16) in ancient America. In the modern world, He and His Father appeared to the boy Joseph Smith, ushering in the long-promised “dispensation of the fulness of times” (Ephesians 1:10).

Of the Living Christ, the Prophet Joseph wrote: “His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:

“I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father” (D&C 110:3–4).

Of Him the Prophet also declared: “And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!

“For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—

“That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God” (D&C 76:22–24).

We declare in words of solemnity that His priesthood and His Church have been restored upon the earth—“built upon the foundation of … apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone” (Ephesians 2:20).

We testify that He will someday return to earth. “And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together” (Isaiah 40:5). He will rule as King of Kings and reign as Lord of Lords, and every knee shall bend and every tongue shall speak in worship before Him. Each of us will stand to be judged of Him according to our works and the desires of our hearts.

We bear testimony, as His duly ordained Apostles—that Jesus is the Living Christ, the immortal Son of God. He is the great King Immanuel, who stands today on the right hand of His Father. He is the light, the life, and the hope of the world. His way is the path that leads to happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come. God be thanked for the matchless gift of His divine Son.

Image

[pam]

My own words? I believe He is the Son of God. I believe he is our Elder brother. I believe that he came to earth and died on the cross and was resurrected three days later. I believe his death was to atone for our sins. I believe He was the only perfect individual to ever have walked on the earth.

[antsyl]

If your asking who Mormons say that Christ is........

This is a pretty good summary: The Living Christ January 2000

Thanks for the response. As is the usual case its not the big words that cause me thought its the little ones. I believe that Christ died but not for the sins of the whole world but, for those who put their trust in him. The elementary scripture of John 3:16 says ...that whosoever believes in Him... I dont believe that Christ's death paid for any sins of anyone that does not put their faith in Him.

The story of Joseph Smith is a cornerstone of the Mormon faith. Never have been able to get that one into my heart. Sorry, no malice meant.

He went on doing good and had a message of peace and goodwill seems good but that, to me, speaks of works righteousness. Now I would love to think that I was able to influence God with my good works but truth is, He says that the best I have is "filthy rags" So thats not going to get me to far. I know from experience that Mormons are the best at helping and doing things. But, there isnt any place I see in the Bible that says they will get me into Heaven.

I think Christ was our example and yes He did do many wonderful things. He spent his life showing us how we should live but it was His work on the cross that brought those who put their trust in Him salvation. Salvation does not belong to us by birth, as in the whole world. It belongs to those who put their trust in Him. It cant be worked out. He alone did the work. We receive it by faith. Dont get me wrong, I think Mormons are wonderful people. I have many Mormons in my family. I am not one of them though. I have had family members married in the Temple. I just cant work out my salvation by good deeds and I cannot accept any offer to be a little god or goddess.

There are other things in the statement of belief that I have a difficult time with but Ill stop here. No need to go any further I dont imagine.

I want to say this. I came to this site to learn about preparedness, and I didnt want to get into the faith questions because I knew I would have great difficulty with the Mormon faith. But,now Ive done it and I guess I should wait for the defense. I mean no harm.

It is just very hard to read some of the questions and responses. Should I leave?

antsyl

[Snow]

Now I would love to think that I was able to influence God with my good works but truth is, He says that the best I have is "filthy rags"

No - not exactly. The author of Isaiah said that. God has never publicly offered an opinion.

[deseretgov]

For me Christ is the only way that I can have a chance at returning to my Heavenly Father. The only way of passing the test we are living in right now. Christ is everything to me. Without Him I am less than nothing.

It's interesting you brought up all that other stuff. But since you are the original poster I'll assume it's ok to go off topic about it. Now I'm not trying to convice you to believe these things. I'm just explaining why I believe them.

For me no amount of good works can get me into heaven. I could be the nicest guy around give money to everyone. help out all sorts of people and it wouldn't get me one inch closer to heaven. I can only get into Heaven through the grace of Christ. So me doing good works = not getting to Heaven. But me having Christ's grace = me getting into heaven. But it doesn't stop there. I still have to find a way to get Christ's grace I think that if I loved sinning, hated God, worshippped Satan, and did stuff like that Christ probably wouldn't give me His grace. After all a person like that could not live in God's presence. So Christ probably wouldn't give me His grace. But if I do good things and obeyed the commandments and tried my best then Christ would probably give me His grace. So my good works do not get me into Heaven, but they do give me the Grace of Christ so that I can get into Heaven.

I also believe that by following the proper path I will be able to become just like my Father is. God is my literal Father. I have yet to see where the offspring of one species was a completely different species than it's parent. Yes there are different stages of growth but the offspring EVERY being/creature has the potenmtial to become just like what the parent is.

I also believe what the Bible says about the subject.

Pslams 82:6

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

It would be interesting to hear the other things you have problems with. But I won't hold it against you if you don't want to share. And preparedness is a great topic for discussion. No one says you have to read everything on the forum just to be here. *whisper*I usually only look at the LDS Gospel Discussion forum.*whisper*

Don't leave we love you!

[Snow]

Thanks for the response. As is the usual case its not the big words that cause me thought its the little ones. I believe that Christ died but not for the sins of the whole world but, for those who put their trust in him. The elementary scripture of John 3:16 says ...that whosoever believes in Him... I dont believe that Christ's death paid for any sins of anyone that does not put their faith in Him.

The story of Joseph Smith is a cornerstone of the Mormon faith. Never have been able to get that one into my heart. Sorry, no malice meant.

He went on doing good and had a message of peace and goodwill seems good but that, to me, speaks of works righteousness. Now I would love to think that I was able to influence God with my good works but truth is, He says that the best I have is "filthy rags" So thats not going to get me to far. I know from experience that Mormons are the best at helping and doing things. But, there isnt any place I see in the Bible that says they will get me into Heaven.

I think Christ was our example and yes He did do many wonderful things. He spent his life showing us how we should live but it was His work on the cross that brought those who put their trust in Him salvation. Salvation does not belong to us by birth, as in the whole world. It belongs to those who put their trust in Him. It cant be worked out. He alone did the work. We receive it by faith. Dont get me wrong, I think Mormons are wonderful people. I have many Mormons in my family. I am not one of them though. I have had family members married in the Temple. I just cant work out my salvation by good deeds and I cannot accept any offer to be a little god or goddess.

There are other things in the statement of belief that I have a difficult time with but Ill stop here. No need to go any further I dont imagine.

I want to say this. I came to this site to learn about preparedness, and I didnt want to get into the faith questions because I knew I would have great difficulty with the Mormon faith. But,now Ive done it and I guess I should wait for the defense. I mean no harm.

It is just very hard to read some of the questions and responses. Should I leave?

antsyl

That's nice. What conclusions do you draw from your beliefs?

Do you think that your faith will save you and that Mormons faith won't save them?

[Moksha]

Who do you say I am?

Someone with an unusual question. Is it not best to define yourself?

[antsyl]

For me Christ is the only way that I can have a chance at returning to my Heavenly Father. The only way of passing the test we are living in right now. Christ is everything to me. Without Him I am less than nothing.

It's interesting you brought up all that other stuff. But since you are the original poster I'll assume it's ok to go off topic about it. Now I'm not trying to convice you to believe these things. I'm just explaining why I believe them.

For me no amount of good works can get me into heaven. I could be the nicest guy around give money to everyone. help out all sorts of people and it wouldn't get me one inch closer to heaven. I can only get into Heaven through the grace of Christ. So me doing good works = not getting to Heaven. But me having Christ's grace = me getting into heaven. But it doesn't stop there. I still have to find a way to get Christ's grace I think that if I loved sinning, hated God, worshippped Satan, and did stuff like that Christ probably wouldn't give me His grace. After all a person like that could not live in God's presence. So Christ probably wouldn't give me His grace. But if I do good things and obeyed the commandments and tried my best then Christ would probably give me His grace. So my good works do not get me into Heaven, but they do give me the Grace of Christ so that I can get into Heaven.

I also believe that by following the proper path I will be able to become just like my Father is. God is my literal Father. I have yet to see where the offspring of one species was a completely different species than it's parent. Yes there are different stages of growth but the offspring EVERY being/creature has the potenmtial to become just like what the parent is.

I also believe what the Bible says about the subject.

Pslams 82:6

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

It would be interesting to hear the other things you have problems with. But I won't hold it against you if you don't want to share. And preparedness is a great topic for discussion. No one says you have to read everything on the forum just to be here. *whisper*I usually only look at the LDS Gospel Discussion forum.*whisper*

Don't leave we love you!

First, There is no test. What was done on that hill two thousand years ago was sufficient.

If you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, that He died for your sins and is now at the right hand of God then you will be saved. The Gospel is true. Christ died a substitutionary death for you. He paid the price. Just believe He is who he says He is and accept the Free Gift He offers. Salvation! From then on when God looks at you he sees Christ's purity. Your sins are forgiven. Its not that you should go on sinning but you are saved.

There is no TEST the WORK is done. Christ said on the cross, "it is finished" Paid in full.

[antsyl]

That's nice. What conclusions do you draw from your beliefs?

Do you think that your faith will save you and that Mormons faith won't save them?

Snow,

It is not my beliefs that will save me and its not the Beliefs of Mormons that will save them.

It is the Blood of Christ and that alone that will save me and you. I am not here to bash Mormons or any religion. I believe that the Bible is the inherent word of God. That is it. I believe that Jesus died for my sins and that if I put my trust in his death and believe that he died for my sins then I am saved. I dont have to DO anything to be saved. If I say that His death plus something I must do, such as good deeds, will get me into heaven then I say that His death was not sufficient. I come to Christ bankrupt. I have nothing to pay my debt with.

The Bible says I was dead in my transgressions. Dead as far as I can tell is pretty lifeless. Not many dead people can do anything about their circumstance that I can see.

It is Christ who gives life and that eternally.

[antsyl]

Someone with an unusual question. Is it not best to define yourself?

The question was a quote from Christ. Who I am or who am I?

I am a sinner saved by Grace thru faith in Jesus Christ. I am a new creation.

Nothing more.

[deseretgov]

First, There is no test. What was done on that hill two thousand years ago was sufficient.

If you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, that He died for your sins and is now at the right hand of God then you will be saved. The Gospel is true. Christ died a substitutionary death for you. He paid the price. Just believe He is who he says He is and accept the Free Gift He offers. Salvation! From then on when God looks at you he sees Christ's purity. Your sins are forgiven. Its not that you should go on sinning but you are saved.

There is no TEST the WORK is done. Christ said on the cross, "it is finished" Paid in full.

I never said that it wasn't done. Christ fulfilled His part. Now it is up to me. That is the test. The test isn't to see if Christ will save me. The test is to see if I will do what I need to in order to accept Christ's gift. Christ offers the gift of salvation to all who are willing to take it. My test is to take it or take what the world offers.

You said:

If you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, that He died for your sins and is now at the right hand of God then you will be saved.

So I'm going to believe what you told me. I want to make a public announcement that I believe the Christ is the Son of God, that He died for my sins and is now at the right hand of God.

So now no matter what I do I will be saved. I hope so, because now I'm going to go commit adultery. I might murder someone on the way home from work too. Come to think of it, I'm going to join a Satanist church.

Thank you for telling me the truth and relieving me of the burden of doing my best to follow God's commandments. It was getting really annoying. I wonder how many major sins I can commit before the day is out. Good thing I'm saved.

[bytor2112]

I dont believe that Christ's death paid for any sins of anyone that does not put their faith in Him.

So infants and toddlers that die without a knowledge of Christ.......or those who died without the knowledge of Christ or before Christ's birth, what happens to them? How do they escape the demands of justice if not through Christ's atonement?

[Snow]

Snow,

It is not my beliefs that will save me and its not the Beliefs of Mormons that will save them.

It is the Blood of Christ and that alone that will save me and you.

I think you know perfectly well what was being asked. Let's not turn this into a game of semantics.

I am not here to bash Mormons or any religion. I believe that the Bible is the inherent word of God. That is it.

Could you explain what you mean by inerrancy?

I believe that Jesus died for my sins and that if I put my trust in his death and believe that he died for my sins then I am saved. I dont have to DO anything to be saved.

Which is it? In one sentence you say you do not have to do anything - in the next sentence you say that you have to put your trust in His death?

Do you or do you not have to do something?

If I say that His death plus something I must do, such as good deeds, will get me into heaven then I say that His death was not sufficient. I come to Christ bankrupt. I have nothing to pay my debt with.

The Bible says I was dead in my transgressions. Dead as far as I can tell is pretty lifeless. Not many dead people can do anything about their circumstance that I can see.

It is Christ who gives life and that eternally.

Could you please just answer the question that I originally posed?

Are you saved - by Christ - due your faith but members of The Church of Jesus Christ are not saved - by Christ by virtue of their faith?

[Seanette]

So I'm going to believe what you told me. I want to make a public announcement that I believe the Christ is the Son of God, that He died for my sins and is now at the right hand of God.

So now no matter what I do I will be saved. I hope so, because now I'm going to go commit adultery. I might murder someone on the way home from work too. Come to think of it, I'm going to join a Satanist church.

Thank you for telling me the truth and relieving me of the burden of doing my best to follow God's commandments. It was getting really annoying. I wonder how many major sins I can commit before the day is out. Good thing I'm saved.

This one really needed a "laugh" button.

[Guest]

I think this is the umpteenth thread of this same here topic... it's 3:30AM so I will not dig out the links to the other threads. If somebody would be so cool as to unearth those umpteen threads and link it here, we might be able to save ourselves pages of ad nauseum.

[FunkyTown]

First, There is no test. What was done on that hill two thousand years ago was sufficient.

If you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, that He died for your sins and is now at the right hand of God then you will be saved. The Gospel is true. Christ died a substitutionary death for you. He paid the price. Just believe He is who he says He is and accept the Free Gift He offers. Salvation! From then on when God looks at you he sees Christ's purity. Your sins are forgiven. Its not that you should go on sinning but you are saved.

There is no TEST the WORK is done. Christ said on the cross, "it is finished" Paid in full.

A good thought. I would counter with:

James 2:15-17 (King James Version)

15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James 2:19 (King James Version)

(And also)

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

So the question then must be asked: Which of those claims of belief does Satan not fulfill?

Does Satan not believe Jesus is the son of God? Does he not believe that Jesus is at the right hand of God?

Or is it that last bit - Believing Jesus died for his sins?

So, under your belief, if Satan said "Jesus died for my sins." and then continued going on tempting the world, destroying innocents and seeking to destroy God's work, he would be welcomed back?

Be aware I'm not bashing your beliefs. I'm honestly confused as to how the concept of 'Faith in Jesus Christ' has been translated in to 'Belief in Jesus Christ'.

I can't reconcile the idea that faith and belief are exactly the same thing.

[Moksha]

The question was a quote from Christ. Who I am or who am I?

I am a sinner saved by Grace thru faith in Jesus Christ. I am a new creation.

Nothing more.

My short answer would have been that I am a shining child of God, who trys to do good.

However, I also like the answer that I am a part of all that I have met (whether I can remember it or not). Perhaps their synthesis would make for a better, although longer answer. When I think in even grander terms, I cannot communicate my thoughts accurately, but I know that I am on a deliberate spiritual journey that has a purpose and and is connected to a Divine design.

:)

[antsyl]

I never said that it wasn't done. Christ fulfilled His part. Now it is up to me. That is the test. The test isn't to see if Christ will save me. The test is to see if I will do what I need to in order to accept Christ's gift. Christ offers the gift of salvation to all who are willing to take it. My test is to take it or take what the world offers.

You said:

So I'm going to believe what you told me. I want to make a public announcement that I believe the Christ is the Son of God, that He died for my sins and is now at the right hand of God.

So now no matter what I do I will be saved. I hope so, because now I'm going to go commit adultery. I might murder someone on the way home from work too. Come to think of it, I'm going to join a Satanist church.

Thank you for telling me the truth and relieving me of the burden of doing my best to follow God's commandments. It was getting really annoying. I wonder how many major sins I can commit before the day is out. Good thing I'm saved.

Now here is a rocket scientist if Ive ever seen one.

[Gatorman]

Now here is a rocket scientist if Ive ever seen one.

I agree antsyl. That was a perfectly accurate answer to the idea that good works are not required. If good works are not required, why did Christ teach them, by example and word, and then tell us all we should be like him? Can we have faith and NOT do works? Is it possible? Or, would such faith be as empty as deseretgov's example would have been. The flaw in the 'faith' only thinking is that it gives you a 'get out of jail free' card. Would someone who truly believes in Christ not try to do good works? Would they not 'work' to follow the commandments? Would someone who does NOT do those things truly have any real faith?

[Hemidakota]

I ask the same question that Christ asked his disciples, Who do you say I am?

Its not a trick question. I am actually interested in hearing from Mormons on this

question.

Does it matter?

[Misshalfway]

Thanks for the response. As is the usual case its not the big words that cause me thought its the little ones. I believe that Christ died but not for the sins of the whole world but, for those who put their trust in him. The elementary scripture of John 3:16 says ...that whosoever believes in Him... I dont believe that Christ's death paid for any sins of anyone that does not put their faith in Him.

The story of Joseph Smith is a cornerstone of the Mormon faith. Never have been able to get that one into my heart. Sorry, no malice meant.

He went on doing good and had a message of peace and goodwill seems good but that, to me, speaks of works righteousness. Now I would love to think that I was able to influence God with my good works but truth is, He says that the best I have is "filthy rags" So thats not going to get me to far. I know from experience that Mormons are the best at helping and doing things. But, there isnt any place I see in the Bible that says they will get me into Heaven.

I think Christ was our example and yes He did do many wonderful things. He spent his life showing us how we should live but it was His work on the cross that brought those who put their trust in Him salvation. Salvation does not belong to us by birth, as in the whole world. It belongs to those who put their trust in Him. It cant be worked out. He alone did the work. We receive it by faith. Dont get me wrong, I think Mormons are wonderful people. I have many Mormons in my family. I am not one of them though. I have had family members married in the Temple. I just cant work out my salvation by good deeds and I cannot accept any offer to be a little god or goddess.

There are other things in the statement of belief that I have a difficult time with but Ill stop here. No need to go any further I dont imagine.

I want to say this. I came to this site to learn about preparedness, and I didnt want to get into the faith questions because I knew I would have great difficulty with the Mormon faith. But,now Ive done it and I guess I should wait for the defense. I mean no harm.

It is just very hard to read some of the questions and responses. Should I leave?

antsyl

LDS people believe that everyone should be free to worship according to their dictates of conscience. It seems that is what you are doing, and that is what we are doing too.

It's ok that LDS doctrine doesn't match your understanding. It is even ok that you feel urges to argue with it. I would make the assumption that every Christian must wrestle with some part of Christ's commands in order to humble themselves sufficiently. I think that is part of the process...a good process if one can keep their eye on the purpose of it.

I frankly wrestle with most of the doctrines surrounding Christ and the Atonement that come out of traditional Christianity. I hope it is ok to confess the same back to you. But I will tell you that in my conversations with others not of my faith here and elsewhere, I find myself widened and even humbled by the exchange. I appreciate those who have taken the time to kindly (and with needed patience) teach me how to disagree but appreciate at the same time. I think we all need to exercise more effort in understanding those who differ from us (those we think are dead wrong) instead of using the differences to divide people.

I read threads like this and I worry that they end up going no place good because at some point there is always a personal attack or a sarcastic jab. I think it has already creeped into this conversation. And I don't think we do anything of representing the Christian nature when we go there. Perhaps this was part of your reservation in sharing.

I hope that perhaps you could share your view of the scriptures, and we can contribute ours and there can be some middle consideration ground created rather that a 'set up' question followed by the inevitable tired battle.

Sorry for the side commentary. Maybe I am just hoping that we can be better than those who can't do anything but throw things at those who see things differently than they do.

He says that the best I have is "filthy rags" So thats not going to get me to far.

I just wanted to add that Christ also put great value on the Widow's mite.

[antsyl]

I agree antsyl. That was a perfectly accurate answer to the idea that good works are not required. If good works are not required, why did Christ teach them, by example and word, and then tell us all we should be like him? Can we have faith and NOT do works? Is it possible? Or, would such faith be as empty as deseretgov's example would have been. The flaw in the 'faith' only thinking is that it gives you a 'get out of jail free' card. Would someone who truly believes in Christ not try to do good works? Would they not 'work' to follow the commandments? Would someone who does NOT do those things truly have any real faith?

Truth is you simply dont believe Christ is who he says he is.

Plain and simple