Forgetting the Past

[justaname]

Hi Folks,

What can I say. . . Im looking for advice.

I have been married almost 10 years to a wonderful wife. She is beautiful, a great mother, perfect companion, she is really everything a man could ask for in a wife. I could literally go on and on about how much I love and appreciate her. Our marriage has for the most part been without difficulty. We were the best of friends before anything else.

The trails that led us together were different. We did not know each other in high school. I met her after I served my mission. As I mentioned before, we were the best of friends before we became romantic. As best friends, there was little we did not discuss. During these times, she shared with me a rocky past. A past that involved immorality with multiple men. I need not go into details with numbers or times. She drank on occasion that led to poor decisions. This period of time lasted less than a year before she realized she was living without the spirit. She abandoned her friends and her college and moved away. She confessed to her bishop and repented of her ways. I met her maybe 6 months after this. I was fortunate enough to stay morally clean until we were married.

I want to make it clear that I do not doubt her repentance. She is clean in my eyes. She has worked in Young Women's, taught in Relief Society and Sunday School. I am confident that she does not dwell on the past and rarely considers it.

Throughout or marriage I have suffered at the thought of her actions. Here and there something I hear or see will trigger a thought or image of what she was involved with. It takes a lot of work to put those aside. For most of our marriage I have been successful. Though for some reason, about 6 weeks ago, I have been consumed with these images of her actions. These images replay themselves over and over in my head. I feel like they have choked every good thought out. When I go to bed at night, I fall asleep to them. Within seconds of the alarm going on in the morning, they are back. I can find no refuge from them. I try extremely hard to not discuss these things with my wife. I feel she has repented and should no longer be burdened with it. However, when I need someone to talk to, she has been willing and gracious to answer my questions. But, I have found that when she answers my questions, it doesnt help. It only puts further thoughts and images there. These thoughts are driving me to severe depression. My wife can see it and I believe my children are catching on to it.

A couple of weeks ago, I chose to speak with my bishop about it. He was helpful and gave me a blessing. I listened carefully to that blessing and have followed his counsel. My wife and I study the scriptures each night together. I swear I pray 30 times a day. I no longer listen to the radio on the way to work, but rather listen to church cd's. I have read all I can on forgiveness. I have studied D&C 120-123 and have pondered how Joseph Smith suffered in jail. I have considered how he felt abandoned by the Lord. My wife and I are going to the temple tonight and will try to go weekly. I read the scriptures in the morning. I feel as though Im doing everything I can. But nothing is helping. These thoughts are all consuming. I would literally say I think about them 90% a day. Its becoming difficult to be intimate with her because I can only envision her doing these things with someone else.

Like I said before, I genuinely feel I hold no grudge against her. She has done EVERYTHING right since we have met and married. I feel like I have forgiven her, but question if I have. If I have, why would these thoughts still haunt me? I do not question her loyalty to me. I truly feel she is as loyal as a woman could be.

I can only conclude one of a few things. 1) I am being tested by the Lord. If this is the case, I am doing everything the Lord is asking. How long must I be patient? Is this really for the benefit of my marriage? Where is the wisdom in this trial? 2) I have not really forgiven her. If this is the case, how can I do this? If I do, will these images go away? 3) Perhaps I am mentally ill and need counseling and medication. I have always trusted that the Lord can fix everything through fasting, prayer, scripture study and temple attendance. Im doing this, but to no avail.

Right now our marriage is ok. She is patient with me. But Im recognizing that her patience may have limits, and I cannot function like this for much longer. I need peace, but dont know where else to look.

[Gatorman]

Well, my first question is, why do you feel you need to forgive her? You chose and accepted her as she was. She appears to have never done anything to you. Perhaps, what you are feeling is a latent blame misplaced. Perhaps, if instead of viewing her past actions as something you need to forgive her for, you recognize that they have nothing to do with you, it will be a step.

As to the how long, as long as it takes for you to learn the lesson Heavenly Father is teaching. There is no set period. Counseling may be adviseable. I would not jump to the medication path without long, careful consideration. Heavenly Father's methods are not always magical or mystical. Sometimes, it is by seeking us to those who have the tools and gifts to help us.

Understand, these are my opinions and not meant to judge. But, it truly does strike me odd that you feel you need to forgive her, as if she has ever wronged you. It truly impresses upon me that such a feeling is misplaced and could be what you should be focusing on.

[lattelady]

I hope it's okay that I'm answering your post; I'm not a member, but I felt compelled to encourage you. God's Word says that Satan tries to "...steal, kill and destroy." He doesn't want your marriage to flourish. He wants to steal your joy and destroy what you've built--a loving relationship with your wife built on the trust that you two have together. It's good that you're being honest with yourself and others about the way that you feel. That's a lot to keep bound up inside, and I know the evil one works in secrecy and isolation. I think he wants to keep your focus on her past, instead of the present and your future together with her. God wants you to set your mind on pure and excellent things (Phil. 4:8--"Finally, brethren, whatever is true...honorable...right...pure..lovely...of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, let your mind dwell on these things." The truth is your wife loves you and has been faithful to you! Satan wants you to focus on her past--but God wants you to be her biggest cheerleader and to focus on the truth. I hope for the best for you two.

[ruthiechan]

You have been married for ten years and it is just now becoming an obsession?

You have not considered a fourth option which is the likely option.

Satan is harassing you. There's something important you and your wife need to do, and this is blocking it, keeping it from happening. Those things in her past are not marked on her soul anymore, so instead of marking her, Satan is now attempting to force those marks on you to prevent whatever it is you and your wife need to do together. It is impeding your ability to function well, spiritually and temporally, and will eventually erode your marriage and cause difficulties for your children.

Stop asking your wife questions, it is only making things worse. By asking questions you're doing Satan a favor.

Go to the Temple every week. Go do random acts of service, go with your wife, with your children. Serve others, in and out of the church, in a homeless shelter, it doesn't matter, but serve others. It will help you let it go.

[wildbean98]

Your feelings come from you believing her past is important for some reason. We ignore things we do not think are important and focus on things we think are. The more important something is to you the more you will dwell on it. For some reason you feel her past is important. Since you did marry her, when you said your vows you declared to the whole world that you would stay with her in sickness and in health, in good times and bad, and you declared that you accepted her with all her faults and her past. Unfortunately it sounds like you didn't really accept her as she was when you married her.

The most important thing here is that you do not burden her with your issues. This is something you've got to figure out how to deal with on your own. If she knows her past is affecting you this much you run the risk of creating a lot of regret in her mind, and that is terrible for continued honesty and communication between you two.

First you have to figure out why it matters to you. Why is her past so important to you? There could be any number of reasons why it's such an important issue to you. I've felt this way before and one time it was because I judged her by her past, which then led to me feeling like I had to forgive her. If you do not judge then there is no need to forgive. If you do not see fault in someone's actions then there is no reason to forgive. You have to remember that there is only one person who has the right to judge and forgive, even though it is so easy to take that job on ourselves.

So take some time out and figure out why it matters so much to you. Figure out why her past is important to your brain. It's common for things to be important to us without having the slightest idea why. Only by sitting down and thinking about it can you figure out why your brain won't let go of this.

[justaname]

Thank you for your kind responses. I fully recognize that Satan is picking on me. I recently accepted a calling that I feel is important to me and the ward. The timing of accepting the calling and when I started obsessing about this is too coincidental to ignore.

I feel I need to forgive her because she asked me to forgive her. I understand that I wasnt present when this stuff happened and it should have no bearing on me or my future with her or my family. I must disagree with the poster that stated I didnt accept her as she is. I accept her as a perfect wife and companion. Her slate has been wiped clean and I understand that. If anyone is leading the way to our exaltation, it is her right now. I knew from the start of our relationship that she was special, and all I wanted was to be with her.

All Im trying to say is that the images and thoughts in my head are simply unpleasant and painful. I dont think its unreasonable for me to experience pain thinking of her being with someone else.

As to why Im obsessing about this now, I dont know except for perhaps the timing of the calling I received. Why does it matter to me? Why does it bother me so much? I have no idea. I think about that all the time. It makes me feel foolish that I cant figure it out. I can only say that Im a man, and Im jealous and possessive.

I do try as hard as I can to not burden her with all of this. I know I shouldnt ask her questions and make her re-live those days. But I dont have anyone else to talk to about this but her. No one else needs to know. I waited a long time to go talk to the bishop about it, because I felt like he didnt need to know either. Its difficult to feel like you are facing a problem alone. Especially when you are asking for help ALL the time from the Lord.

[Bini]

Well, my first question is, why do you feel you need to forgive her? You chose and accepted her as she was. She appears to have never done anything to you. Perhaps, what you are feeling is a latent blame misplaced. Perhaps, if instead of viewing her past actions as something you need to forgive her for, you recognize that they have nothing to do with you, it will be a step.

As to the how long, as long as it takes for you to learn the lesson Heavenly Father is teaching. There is no set period. Counseling may be adviseable. I would not jump to the medication path without long, careful consideration. Heavenly Father's methods are not always magical or mystical. Sometimes, it is by seeking us to those who have the tools and gifts to help us.

Understand, these are my opinions and not meant to judge. But, it truly does strike me odd that you feel you need to forgive her, as if she has ever wronged you. It truly impresses upon me that such a feeling is misplaced and could be what you should be focusing on.

I was going to say this as well. Completely agree.

You have nothing to forgive her of. What she did was in her past and was prior to your relationship with her. She has since repented and none of it has anything to do with you :] From your post, my observation is that perhaps you're a bit resentful that she did not remain morally clean prior to marriage and you did. To an extent that feeling is natural but you knew her background when you married. You cannot hold blame against your wife for wrong-doings that took place before YOU happened. Continue to pray and consult your Bishop as needed. If you've had a history of depression or mania, you may also want to consider consulting a physician about it as well. Something untreated like Bipolar can take a heavy heavy toll on family and friends.

[Misshalfway]

I wonder if you are spending too much time worrying about this. The past is over. Let it go. The person that did those things long ago doesn't exist anymore.

Btw...the person that did your stupid stuff doesn't exist anymore either. How would you feel if she were agonizing over all your worst mistakes?

Tender mercies. Tender mercies.

[ladykemma2]

i would make sure you are getting enough b-vitamins, especially b-12. Lack of b-12 can look like psychosis.

it is none of your business - her past.

when i couldn't get obsessive thoughts about another person out of my head, my counselor had me do thought stoppers.

"it is none of my business what that person did" (say inside your head it til you mean it)

"this does not concern me"

"i stay on my floor tile"

"this is none of my business"

"peace, be still"

[Hemidakota]

God's Word says that Satan tries to "...steal, kill and destroy." He doesn't want your marriage to flourish. He wants to steal your joy and destroy what you've built--a loving relationship with your wife built on the trust that you two have together.

I have not heard of this phrase being offered in this content but let me quote from "There's a Horse in the House" by Maren M. Mouritsen -

For a moment, I would like to talk about context. We often slice the scriptures so thin that we but thinly know them. We find a line here or a word there that touches our heart, or our mind, or our circumstance. But the context is often everything. We cannot truly understand this scripture about abundance until we put it in its full context. Just before those words, the Savior had been at the marriage at Cana. He had been with Nicodemus. He had been with the adulterers and had healed the nobleman's son. He had been with the woman of Samaria at the well. He had walked on the waters and spoken of coming to do his Father's will. He had all of these experiences and more, and then come his words in John 10:10 about abundance. Soon after this verse, the Savior raises Lazarus from the dead. I don't think the sequence of those experiences or verses is accidental. Verses 10 and 11 read:

"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come, that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep."

Not to be unruly in what is given but to state it was not Lucifer here He was speaking of...from Daniel Ludlow, Ancient Scripture Professor states -

[need to look at the previous two versus here]

10:8 In the Joseph Smith Translation, this verse begins, "All that ever came before me who testified not of me are thieves and robbers . . ." (Italics added.)

"To him give all the prophets witness." (Acts 10:43.) There never was a prophet of God in any age who did not testify of Christ and his mission. Any professing prophet, teacher, pastor, shepherd, minister, or priest, in any age, who is not in fact called of God and who does not bear witness of Christ is a false prophet, or as Jesus here says a thief and a robber. (DNTC 1:484-85.)

10:10 "Robber" could have been translated "plunderer." The latter translation is more consistent with the context, inasmuch as a "thief" and a "robber" are essentially the same, but there could be a substantial difference between a "thief" and a "plunderer."

Edited August 22, 2009 by Hemidakota

[Gwen]

i read a story one time, i know i won't do it justice and it's been awhile since i read it so forgive me as i try to sum it up, i think it's appropriate here.

there was this lady that lived in the city she was dog sitting for a friend. the dog was old and while she was caring for it it died. she didn't know what she was going to do. so she called the city to find out what one does with a dog when it dies. she was told where she needed to take the dog but she didn't have a car. she spent some time trying to figure out how she was going to get this dog there, she didn't have a lot of money and you can't just get on the bus with a dead dog. it was a small dog and she had an old suitcase that she really didn't use or need so she decided to put the dog in it and get on the bus. while changing buses she guarded the suitcase very closely. a man saw her being very protective of it and assumed there was something valuable inside and stole her suitcase. she immediately took off after him. as she is chasing this man to reclaim her suitcase that he stole she thought about it and realized what she was doing. what was she chasing after? a dead dog in a suitcase she was going to throw away when she was done. the dog was a burden on her and here she was chasing after it to reclaim it.. for what reason? to get rid of it. she realized how little since this made and decided if this man wanted her suitcase bad enough then it would be his problem and she went home.

your wife's past is a dead dog, it's done, it's over, she has let go. you are asking questions and chasing after it for what reason? so you can forgive her and get rid of it? not sure that makes a lot of since. i know it's easier said than done. i agree with those that say she's done nothing to you to require your forgiveness. this was between her and the lord, they have dealt with it. that being said i do understand where you are coming from. my husband had been married before i met him. though i accepted that past there are moments it gets to me, when i think about him with her. i guess i don't really have an answer for ya. you aren't alone in your feelings. it is your problem and you need to deal with it. for me a big part of dealing with such feelings is understanding exactly what they are and why it's important to me. stop asking questions about the details, that's unproductive. don't chase after dead dogs.

[rampion]

Moderation in all things. Even good things can be taken to excess. I'd suggest taking a portion of the time that you spend praying and pondering, and spend it having fun with your wife and your family. Can you do that? If that would be hard for you to try, then perhaps this has become an obsession/addiction, and is out of control. When something in your thinking, behavior, or emotions is causing you pain and trouble, and interfering in your life, it becomes a disorder. Counseling may help. You might also try an ARP program.

[foreverafter]

Justaname,

I have found that most people downplay or don't understand the seriousness & the often lasting consequences of 'Adultery or Fornication' on an individual or their innocent spouse, even when those things happened before the marriage like in your case. These things are just that huge & painful & are not easily gotten over by either spouse. In the next life though, you both can be totally healed from it all.

I believe you have truely forgiven & accepted your wife as you say, but that does not mean that the realities of Fornication will not continue to haunt you through the years at times, just like Adultery continues to hurt & affect an innocent spouse for years when committed after marriage, even though their spouse repents. These are very serious issues & they can hurt & be a burden that the innocent spouse carries for years to come. You are a wonderful man for being willing to help carry her burden of her past, which is still a reality even though she has truely repented. The lingering consequences on you both, & you especially, can still linger, thus your need, your legitimate & understandable need, to occasionally talk about it again & again. If she is truely repentant & realizes the seriousness of the sins & the effects of it all, even on you, she will be humble, open & compassionate & totally willing to talk about it as much as you feel the need to.

The more she proves her love for you the more you will feel better also. But since you don't have much power over her loving you, accept to ask for what you need & desire from her, there is something you can do to help ease the pain of the memory of her sins & their effects on you. It is the great principle God has given to spouses to be able to love & be happy in any kind of marriage or circumstance. It is True Love. Not from her, but from you.

"True Love casteth out all fear." The more you acquire True Love for her, & I know you will say you do love her, but I mean a more intense love, one with all the intensity like falling in love the 1st time with her, of being madly in love with her, where you can't stop thinking about her (in an exciting way) during the day or can't wait to see her again, even after a short absence, where you feel you would die without her or for her if necessary, where you experience ecstacy in her presence & need nothing else to make you happy but being next to her (and your kids too). The more you develop this kind of love, (& it comes fast, you can feel the difference in days) the more the Spirit will fill your soul (for the Spirit is Love) & it will comfort your heart & mind & you will find peace & the ability to lay these images & thoughts aside & not think of your own feelings as much but just of how you can make her happy, which will in turn make you happy & at peace.

The way to develop this True Love is to pray for it & her & to serve her every wish, day & night above everything else, even before your own needs & desires. Put her welfare above your own. Put her & her feelings 1st before eveything else in life, except prayer & scripture study. Seek to make her happy in every way possible. Ask her to make a list of her top 10 things of an ideal husband & then work your way down that list & try to become her ideal. Some things might be easier & faster to do than others. If she won't or can't make that list, make the list yourself & use your best knowledge & inspiration of what you think she would want you to be or do for her, things she has asked for in the past, her favorite things, & do them. Forget yourself in her service & these thoughts will stop bothering you. Don't worry about being perfect or doing everything she wants all at once, just do your best & the process of doing this is what brings the new feelings & you will get better & better at it & you will get addicted to serving her & it will bring you great joy to serve her in anyway you can. (See the movie "Fireproof", I didn't learn this from that movie but I was amazed that they were inspired to show the power of this principle in it.)

Read the Story of Ammon in the Book of Mormon (Alma 17-19), where he commits his life to be a servant to the wicked King Lamoni & how he asked him "What wilt thou that I should do for thee O King?" Ask her this same question each day, & you will have the greatest love affair of your life! You can enjoy the "Exultant Ecstacy" in marriage that Pres. Hickley said was possible in this life. Become a perfect servant to her, just like Ammon was & you will become a powerful man, in Spirit, in love & in confidence, with your wife, with yourself & with others & with God. Do this all without expecting her to do it for you in return, though you can & should ask her to, (so she can enjoy the same love for you) but keep doing it all even if she doesn't do the same for you yet. She will follow your lead in time. This is a true principle that works like a miracle & brings the Spirit of Love so strong into your heart for her that confidence will fill your soul about who you are, that you will not be bothered as much or most likely at all about her past. True Love is the answer. It's the most powerful thing in the universe & can solve every problem, eventually. But "Sacrifice is the evidence of True Love." (Elder Widtsoe, CR Apr. 1943.)

Edited August 22, 2009 by foreverafter

[talisyn]

huh

Anyways getting to the OP. I'm sure it's mostly because of your new calling and how everything seems to be going so well for your family. But let's not forget the biology of age. The young woman your wife was once is gone, and is the young man you were. But when people reach a certain age they start to look back and think of things they might have done differently. You see your lovely wife, forgiven of her sins, and you think to yourself (in the little part of your brain you usually keep quiet) "Well gee, I could have done that too and we still would have had a good life!"

The seeming unfairness of this situation is making you nuts.

What you are not seeing is the pain your wife has gone through. She was on the path of repentance when you met her. You did not see her the day/night after an encounter, when the little voice inside her head - the one that said 'oh he's nice and cute and maybe we can make this into a real relationship', is silenced because she knew she made a big mistake. Never ever wish things were even between the two of you, numbers-wise. She has gone through a lot of suffering to get to a point where she could honorably marry you, Mr. Righteous RM.

Go give her a hug, make some popcorn, and watch Operation Petticoat. You have a good life, go finish living it.

Oh and stop asking for details about her past. That's kind've rude and annoying and will only serve to drive you both nuts.

[DarklyDreamingDexter]

Look at it this way buddy. She stopped sleeping with other men when she met you. That makes you the most studly stud in her world and she cant help but only have passions for you. Sure she made mistakes, but the atonement took care of that. As of now, she's only got eyes for you. Besides, how many women have you looked at and had dirty thoughts enter your mind? If you've repented and avoid that happening dont you think it would be rediculilous for her to obsess? If you disagree and think that she should devulge the details of her irrelevant past then perhaps you'd feel comfortable sharing your darkest fantasies with her that you've ever had about another woman? I mean, its only fair right?

[FairChild]

Satan is working overtime here. Unless your Bishop is a trained therapist, he lacks some of the necessary skills to help you overcome the problems you are describing. A councelor can train you to use techniques that can help you control your thoughts. He may also suggestion medication that may help you keep from being so overwhelmed. You have nothing to lose by trying and the possiblity of losing your eternal family by doing nothing. I wish you well.

[StallionMcBeastly]

This is a tough one, I'm sorry to hear you're enduring it.

All I can offer is that in God's eyes her past sins never happened. She obviously loved the spirit and the church more than her sins, because she gave it all up to come back to church.

She didn't marry those men, she married you. No other man means anything else to her than you.

I'll pray for you.

[ryanh]

Hey justaname – I can well understand the thoughts and feelings that flow over and through you. I’ve felt many of them at times, although the source of my trigger is a bit different than what you are grappling with.

I have always trusted that the Lord can fix everything through fasting, prayer, scripture study and temple attendance.

I trust He can fix everything, but doesn’t mean he will. He certainly could have delivered Job from his trials, or Joseph Smith from Carthage jail, or any of the other countless extreme trials that people have gone through. I’m sure you’ve heard all the same Sunday School answers I have as to why.

I also think that Heavenly Father expects us to apply all available resources available to overcome challenges that are obstacles to our serving our families and fellow brothers and sisters. I know a psychologist (a PhD) in SLC that is skilled in processing and minimizing traumatic memories if you are interested.

Don't let this keep going without taking it head-on. She deserves the attention of your undistracted self.

I live in Clearfield, so if you want to chat with someone that is familiar with how debilitating these challenges can be, give me a call – or even come over for dinner some evening.

[justaname]

After attending the temple together over the weekend and the temple dedication, I feel like things are progressing. We had a good chat last night. We were able to talk about things without going into detail. No play by plays.

Many of your posts have helped me out, so thank you. It is comforting to carefully consider that after all of her dating, I am the one that she chose. I am the one that she went through the temple with.

It gets overwhelming to think about all the paths in life and how they might criss-cross and overlap each other. I often wonder how each of her and my decisions led us to find one another. Any one of those decisions could have turned each of us another direction, to another place, another job, another something. Perhaps the road she chose is the only road that could have led her to me. In a way, a strange way, maybe I should be thankful that the road, though bumpy, brought her to me.

Im sure I will continue to be haunted by thoughts. They arent all gone yet, and probably wont ever be. I have to wonder if I am being tested for something later in life and this particular experience is only helping me to be more understanding and compassionate towards someone. I really just need to recognize that I am in the refiners fire for a reason. Just be patient.