Attribution Error

[interalia]

Hello all,

It has been a while. I've been pretty busy but a few things have happened since I've been away. Quick rundown - I graduated college, I bought a house, I found a puppy, I got a job finally.

As to the title of this post, I am really struggling with what I'm referring to as attribution error.

This story will illustrate it:

Say you have a friend who is inactive in the church. He has been struggling looking for a job as well for many months with no bites at all, not even an interview. He finally goes back to church one Sunday, and then the next day he gets two job interviews and offers!

What does one make of this? Did God bless him because he went back to church? Most members I have met would say this is the case.

Now let's try that story a different way:

Say you have a friend who is active in the church. He has been struggling looking for a job as well for many months with no bites at all, not even an interview. He has a short term crisis of faith and decides to not attend church one Sunday, and then the next day he gets two job interviews and offers!

What does one make of this? Is he blessed for not going ot church? Most would think not.

The problem is, I think when we attribute the friend's blessing to the fact that he went to church, we must also be willing to attribute the blessing when that is not the case.

I find it far safer in my experience not to attribute blessings to anything I did, but recognize that God causes to rain to fall upon the just and the unjust. A blessing could come for no other reason that God willed it (or didn't un-will it) because He believed it would be best for you at the moment.

The problem with THAT stance is though, well where is God? What is the point of prayer if we cannot attribute blessings to it? It is driving me nuts right now.

I want to believe that we can discern when a blessing is based on something we have or haven't done and when it is not, but I can honestly tell you; I have no idea on how to test this. If I take the stance that "stuff happens, but that stuff is generally better when you pray" then I feel like I'm going along life blindly and not holding the scriptures to the standard I should be ("ask and you shall receive, knock and it shall be opened"). But I'm afraid that when I do hold the scriptures to that standard, that it inevitably will fail the test.

This is no fun.

[Vort]

God doesn't reward us with money. If your friend keeps this simple fact in mind, many otherwise arbitrary things will fall in place.

Now, that's not to say that God never provides financially for his children. I am sure there are cases where he does exactly that. But when Malachi talks about the opening of the windows of heaven, I'm quite sure he is not saying that cash will come fluttering down on us.

Prayer is communication with God. That alone is of far more value than any amount of money. But if you think that praying will bring you money, then effectively what you're doing is trying to cash in on prayer. Cashing in on sacred things, like prayer or sex, is a grave error that destroys the soul.

I suspect that most mature Church members would not attribute two quick job interviews to one's going to Church. There is always the temptation to assign a cause and effect relationship to worship actions and life events, but doing so is usually wrong and almost always unwise.

[pam]

I call it all coincidence.

[hordak]

that's why i like Deism.

[NeuroTypical]

Hey inter - good to see you again.

He finally goes back to church one Sunday, and then the next day he gets two job interviews and offers!

...

He has a short term crisis of faith and decides to not attend church one Sunday, and then the next day he gets two job interviews and offers!

What does one make of this?

What I would make of it, is people have the propensity to confuse correlation with causation, see patterns that aren't there, and basically have a whole host of problems processing reality in odd ways.

I used to have a friend who was convinced she had the power to turn off streetlights as we drove under them. It happened almost every other time we went driving at night - we would get close to a streetlight, and it would turn off. It happened pretty frequently for years and years. We were all convinced.

Eventually a couple of things dawned on me:

1- Sodium street lights get old and randomly turn off due to overheating.

2- For every streetlight that turned off as she got near it, several thousand did not.

3- Without her in the car, streetlights turned off at the same rate with her in it, but it was harder to notice, because who cares if a street light turns out when you're driving somewhere at night? It was the notion that she was somehow causing it that stuck in our brains.

No, she didn't have any strange powers. God may or may not be involved with helping people find work, and it may or may not be related to that person's current state of heart.

LM

[Snow]

Say you have a friend who is inactive in the church. He has been struggling looking for a job as well for many months with no bites at all, not even an interview. He finally goes back to church one Sunday, and then the next day he gets two job interviews and offers!

What does one make of this? Did God bless him because he went back to church? Most members I have met would say this is the case.

Most?

Well not most of the smart ones.

[Traveler]

Some do not understand what blessings are given by G-d and what are good things bestowed upon mankind. In essence we learn that divine blessing only come by obedience. Also the nature of G-d is eternal and for a blessing to have been given by G-d the blessing must therefore be eternal.

The Traveler

[ferretrunner]

There's another way to look at it. Things happen in God's time. Perhaps there was a reason it took so long for your friend to get a job. Maybe the job that was best for him or where he was needed wasn't available earlier, or he wasn't ready for it yet, or someone else wasn't ready.... So, perhaps it was in God's plan to bless him with the job all along. Does that mean we shouldn't pray? No. We need to pray- for our own connection with God. And also, every parent likes it when their children ask for help politely and say thank you for the help after.

Assigning cause/ effect in matters of faith can be difficult. Unlike a science experiement, we really don't get to "see" the "evidence."

[Guest]

I just had this big talk with my mother-in-law about this. She's been saying things just like this - about how God blessed me because my husband kept his job. And I told her, well, my brother-in-law lost his job - does that mean God did not bless him?

Okay, this is how I see God's blessings:

There was once a man who prayed to God for blessings. So God asked him to push the big rock. Every morning at sunrise, the man pushes at the rock with all his strengh. He pushes and pushes until sunset. But the rock never moved! So, the next day at sunrise, he pushes again. Push, push, push. The rock still hasn't moved. But his faith is strong so everyday, he wakes up at sunrise and starts pushing until sunset. A month goes by and he starts feeling dejected. But his faith is still strong. A year goes by and the rock refuses to budge. At this time, his faith starts to dwindle but he keeps at it. Finally, he knelt down in desperation crying out to God, "God, I pushed and I pushed. I did my very best. I have faith that you're going to bless me if I just remain obedient. But, the rock refuses to move! I am not strong enough. Please help me!". God, seeing that the man has a pure heart and a strong spirit, says to the man, "My child, look at your arms - aren't they bulging with muscle? Look at your legs - they are as strong as tree trunks. Your body is burgeoning with health. These are the blessings I have given you. Yet you did not see it. But because you remain strong in faith and obedience, I want you to step aside so I can move the rock."

Hope this helps.

[annewandering]

I believe that every good thing comes from God. We dont always recognize them when we see them but they are all from God.

If a job is good, which it is, then yes it comes from God. If the sun shines and cheers you up, yes it is from God. God touches our hearts and shows us the blessings. The fact that you realize they are blessings from God is a blessing to you.

I have no idea if not getting a job is from God. If we want to debate if bad things come from God then it seems like we are focusing on the wrong things in life.

Call me pollyanna if you want but I really do believe that EVERY good thing comes from God. As I recall didn't He tell us that?

[Ezequiel]

Well, I have to admit that I cant believe that no one has mentioned the scriptures yet. I think the answer to this question is plain and simple. This is what the Lord had to say to Joseph Smith:

"20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any ablessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated"

(Doctrine and Covenats|130:20 - 21)

Period.

To the OP: I think you are missing the main point. Our Father is a perfect being. He freely gives and revokes from His children according to His will. He knows that sometimes witholding a blessing will be for the best. I assure you though, that as we are obedient and faithfull the blessings will ALWAYS come. I feel like the scenario you described is a very poor example and shows a limited understanding of the relationship between our Father and us. But at the same time, its something that everyone has thought of at one point and another. Sometimes we may not see an immidiate blessing. But we must keep in mind that our Father is perfect, and with that He is perfectly merciful, perfectly caring and He wants to be involved in our lives. He only expects us to be obedient at all times and faithfully wait for the blessings He promised us, in His own timing.

Edited September 5, 2009 by Ezequiel

[interalia]

Well, I have to admit that I cant believe that no one has mentioned the scriptures yet. I think the answer to this question is plain and simple. This is what the Lord had to say to Joseph Smith:

"20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any ablessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated"

(Doctrine and Covenats|130:20 - 21)

Period.

To the OP: I think you are missing the main point. Our Father is a perfect being. He freely gives and revokes from His children according to His will. He knows that sometimes witholding a blessing will be for the best. I assure you though, that as we are obedient and faithfull the blessings will ALWAYS come. I feel like the scenario you described is a very poor example and shows a limited understanding of the relationship between our Father and us. But at the same time, its something that everyone has thought of at one point and another. Sometimes we may not see an immidiate blessing. But we must keep in mind that our Father is perfect, and with that He is perfectly merciful, perfectly caring and He wants to be involved in our lives. He only expects us to be obedient at all times and faithfully wait for the blessings He promised us, in His own timing.

I believe that scripture, however, how do we know when the blessing has been obtained, or more specifically, how do we know which blessing in our life corresponds to the law we we obedient to? I mean, I can certainly believe God would withhold a blessing for a time, but how do we determine when a blessing is being withheld for a time or when the law has not been followed to a specific standard? The scriptures say the rain falls upon the just and the unjust alike. How do we know when we are being blessed for say, an answered prayer, as opposed to just having something happen to us naturally?

Sorry, lots of questions there.

[interalia]

There's another way to look at it. Things happen in God's time. Perhaps there was a reason it took so long for your friend to get a job. Maybe the job that was best for him or where he was needed wasn't available earlier, or he wasn't ready for it yet, or someone else wasn't ready.... So, perhaps it was in God's plan to bless him with the job all along. Does that mean we shouldn't pray? No. We need to pray- for our own connection with God. And also, every parent likes it when their children ask for help politely and say thank you for the help after.

Assigning cause/ effect in matters of faith can be difficult. Unlike a science experiement, we really don't get to "see" the "evidence."

It is this kind of thinking that used to sustain me - trying to make sense why a blessing was or was not received, in my own head. In the end, I found myself just "making excuses for God". I use that statement lightly and in order to explain that I didn't really know why something happened or didn't happen with regard to a prayer, so I'd start making excuses as to why it did so I'd feel better about it. I don't like living like that though, it can be incredibly stressful.

[Maxel]

I think taking into account the law of the harvest might help one to differentiate between random coincidences and genuine blessings (although I don't believe in random coincidences, I know others do).

We're not always blessed for righteous acts immediately, but for every righteous seed that we sow, a good reward will be reaped eventually- maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but someday.

I'd wager that approaching the Lord and asking Him to help one see the blessings in one's life will help one to achieve greater discernment in the matter. Ultimately, I am of the belief that all good things come from our Father in Heaven- we can usually discern which things we have 'earned' through our good deeds through comparing the nature of the righteous seed planted to the reward reaped.

[ryuunohono]

I have learned when it comes to situations similar to this not to dwell too much on it.

It could be a blessing from HF or simply a coincidence, either way i am thankful to my father because all that i am is as a result of him. i would much rather say a simple prayer of thanks for a coincidence then ignore HF assuming it was simply coincidence anyhow

[Ezequiel]

well... I suppose you cant just always know.

But I'm very confident in saying that that has to do with the personal faith of one. For me, I'm not keeping score like "Hey God! I did this, so you owe me this..." I simply go about doing good. Working my hardest. Striving my best to live the commandaments and be faithfull to them, and I have full faith that God will bless me in due time.

I do think that sometimes we will be in special needs. In those situations, I think its appropiate to remind God that you have done so and so to receive X blessing. However, I dont think it necessarily important to keep a detailed list of every good thing we've done in order to see if He is keeping his side of the promise. I also think that its important to remember that He blesses us in a far more abundant way that we are able to recognize. That kind of outweights the things He revokes from us or the punishments that befall us.

I also feel like this scripture is relevant here..

30 Who am I that made man, saith the Lord, that will hold him guiltless that obeys not my commandments?

31 Who am I, saith the Lord, that have promised and have not fulfilled?

32 I command and men obey not; I brevoke and they receive not the blessing.

33 Then they say in their hearts: This is not the work of the Lord, for his promises are not fulfilled. But wo unto such, for their reward lurketh beneath, and not from above.

(Doctrine and Coventans|58:31 ~ 33)

Edited September 10, 2009 by Ezequiel

[Traveler]

I believe that scripture, however, how do we know when the blessing has been obtained, or more specifically, how do we know which blessing in our life corresponds to the law we we obedient to? I mean, I can certainly believe God would withhold a blessing for a time, but how do we determine when a blessing is being withheld for a time or when the law has not been followed to a specific standard? The scriptures say the rain falls upon the just and the unjust alike. How do we know when we are being blessed for say, an answered prayer, as opposed to just having something happen to us naturally?

Sorry, lots of questions there.

My thought - if a blessing has to be explained; it has not been received, obtained or earned. One of the major problems I have with the common notion of being saved by grace only is that in my experience no gift is appreciated unless the receiver is vested in it. The greater the investment the greater the appreciation is. I have never seen, experienced or heard of an exception. I do not believe G-d is so selfish to reserve all such appreciation unto him. I really do believe G-d intends and wants us (it is his will) that we be invested in his plan of salvation for us with all our hearts, might, mind and strength. In other words that we do all that we can. Which is the LDS point of view.

The Traveler