trying to get a grasp on preexistense

[Lstinthwrld]

I tried the church website but got a message stating that the page was unavailable. So I thought "why not post on my favorite lds forum?"

So I am trying to understand the preexistence a little better from the initial intelligences to full mortal birth.

What condition are the intelligences in before spiritual formation?

How does the spiritual formation (I have also heard it refered to as spiritual birth. Hopefully someone can elaborate) take place?

What is the reason we are formed into spiritual bodies?

Why is it required that we take a mortal form for the period of time that we have to?

When does the 'soul' populate the human mortal body?

And I guess the final question I have is why does all this have to take place?

Sorry to be long winded here but I am trying to understand these concepts.

Thank you all for your time.

[Hemidakota]

For what purpose do you need to know these questions? Most questions you are asking will require a personal testimony from the Godhead in answering them with clarity.

[Lstinthwrld]

For what purpose do you need to know these questions? Most questions you are asking will require a personal testimony from the Godhead in answering them with clarity.

I have been looking into the LDS Church for some time and these are important things to know in making any kind of decision about any religion. So acting under the only stupid question is an unasked question rule I ask.

[pam]

When does the 'soul' populate the human mortal body?

I can tell you right now you will get a variety of answers. I can't remember which General Authority..I will have to search..said there is no definite answer to that one. Simply we don't know. I'll see if I can find that again for you. So take it with a grain of salt till I can find something more definitive.

[MrsAri]

Quote:

When does the 'soul' populate the human mortal body?

As a mother, I believe that the soul populates the human mortal body upon conception.

[Moksha]

While I think much religious speculation was done after Sunday dinners when the men had retired for this intellectual pursuit and the women folk were in the kitchen washing up and getting ready for some quilting, I will try my hand at speculating on Monday (besides, many Priesthood holders now have football to speculate about).

1. What condition are the intelligences in before spiritual formation?

Pre-ectoplasmic.

2. How does the spiritual formation (I have also heard it refered to as spiritual birth. Hopefully someone can elaborate) take place?

Sounds like this is one of the mysteries, that could only be answered through high level speculation.

3. What is the reason we are formed into spiritual bodies?

To walk around, get married have kids, go through the temple, pay tithing and do our home teaching assignments each month.

4. Why is it required that we take a mortal form for the period of time that we have to?

Too much time to sin if we lived 300 years.

5. When does the 'soul' populate the human mortal body?

At the moment of birth.

6. And I guess the final question I have is why does all this have to take place?

Thought to be a good plan.

Hope this helps. :)

[tubaloth]

So I am trying to understand the preexistence a little better from the initial intelligences to full mortal birth.

There are some things we do know, some things we don't know.

What condition are the intelligences in before spiritual formation?

I don't think this has been answered enough to fully understand it. We know we were some intelligences, some of type of matter in some pure form. But when I say form, we don't know really what form (shape) we are in until we had a spirit form.

How does the spiritual formation (I have also heard it refered to as spiritual birth. Hopefully someone can elaborate) take place?

What is know is just what Prophets have taught, more that we are begotten spirits. What does that mean we don't know. We don't know if its more like birth here? or if its more like creation. That doesn't matter that much, all we know is that through Heavenly Father we came to be.

What is the reason we are formed into spiritual bodies?

Joy! Heavenly Father receives more Joy the children he raises. Its probably not as much receiving (adding) joy but more experiencing it through the process. I'm not a parent, but I assume the same type of joy CAN happen which raising children here. The other part is Love. God wants to share his joy with us! He loves us that much and wants us to experience it.

Why is it required that we take a mortal form for the period of time that we have to?

Progression! We want to experience all our Heavenly Father has (and He wants us to). In spirit form we could only progress and experience so much. The LDS Church believes that God has a Body of Flesh and bones, he is a perfect human. This we want, but were lacking in the pre-mortal life. So the time came for us to see if can obey Spiritual Commandments when we are in a physical world.

When does the 'soul' populate the human mortal body?

I would probably say more spirit instead of soul, but I don't know if there is a clear cut answer. The only thing that I know the leaders have taught is when the Baby moves inside the mother then the spirit is there (or around that time). When that is in terms of weeks I wouldn't know.

is why does all this have to take place?

I have pretty much already explained why. For us to be like Heavenly Father, for us to experience the type of life God lives, or to have Eternal Life. To have a fullness of Joy. Fullness of Joy comes from having a family for eternity, we couldn't do that in the preexistence.

Edited September 14, 2009 by tubaloth

[pam]

It is not clear exactly at what point of development that “certain stage” of quickening—when the spirit makes eternal claim to the body—occurs. Even though quickening occurs before birth, we still do not know definitely when a living soul comes into existence. In fact, some Church leaders have suggested that a living soul does not exist until three essential elements—the body, the spirit, and the breath of life—are all present.

Val D. Greenwood, “I Have a Question,” Ensign, Sept. 1987, 27–28

[Lstinthwrld]

Quote:

When does the 'soul' populate the human mortal body?

As a mother, I believe that the soul populates the human mortal body upon conception.

I am a father of three myself and I am with you on this one.

[Justice]

You're not going to find answers to most of these questions on the Church web site. The answers to some of these questions elude most members who have been in the Church their whole lives.

I won't attempt to answer some of your questions, but I'll give my belief on some. If you want scriptural evidence for any of my answers, just ask. :)

What condition are the intelligences in before spiritual formation?

I don't know, other than I believe it is matter of some kind.

How does the spiritual formation (I have also heard it refered to as spiritual birth. Hopefully someone can elaborate) take place?

I believe it happens much the same way as a baby is born mortal, namely that it requires both a mother and a father.

What is the reason we are formed into spiritual bodies?

Any race has offspring to perpetuate the species, feel ultimate love, and give every opportunity for their childeren to be happy.

Why is it required that we take a mortal form for the period of time that we have to?

For opposition. We are told that we cannot feel a fulness of joy until we see sorrow and sadness. It makes sense to me, even if I can't understand it completely.

When does the 'soul' populate the human mortal body?

Sometime between conception and birth. This may sound like a smart-alec answer, but it isn't. It means it can happen any time and since we don't know, we have no right to interfere.

And I guess the final question I have is why does all this have to take place?

We are told it is necessary for our progression. It gets deep, but that it is necessary is an eternal truth. Our Father in Heaven perfects His children the way chidlren of His race have always been perfected... even Himself. We must be allowed to exercise our inherent moral agency to choose our path. God provided the way for all who will to return to Him perfected and exalted. He leads and guides us down the path and tells us what we have to do to get there. All we need is a little faith.

[Snow]

I tried the church website but got a message stating that the page was unavailable. So I thought "why not post on my favorite lds forum?"

So I am trying to understand the preexistence a little better from the initial intelligences to full mortal birth.

What condition are the intelligences in before spiritual formation?

How does the spiritual formation (I have also heard it refered to as spiritual birth. Hopefully someone can elaborate) take place?

What is the reason we are formed into spiritual bodies?

Why is it required that we take a mortal form for the period of time that we have to?

When does the 'soul' populate the human mortal body?

And I guess the final question I have is why does all this have to take place?

Sorry to be long winded here but I am trying to understand these concepts.

Thank you all for your time.

I'm sorry. We are only accepting easy questions today.

[Traveler]

I tried the church website but got a message stating that the page was unavailable. So I thought "why not post on my favorite lds forum?"

So I am trying to understand the preexistence a little better from the initial intelligences to full mortal birth.

What condition are the intelligences in before spiritual formation?

How does the spiritual formation (I have also heard it refered to as spiritual birth. Hopefully someone can elaborate) take place?

What is the reason we are formed into spiritual bodies?

Why is it required that we take a mortal form for the period of time that we have to?

When does the 'soul' populate the human mortal body?

And I guess the final question I have is why does all this have to take place?

Sorry to be long winded here but I am trying to understand these concepts.

Thank you all for your time.

When the fall took place mankind was cut off from all that is divine. What we have is very sketchy and incomplete. The important thing to know is that we are not mortals seeking immortality. We are divine immortal beings having a mortal experience as part of an incredible journey of paramount importance before becoming divinely complete.

The Traveler

[bmy-]

As to when the soul populates the body.. it is/has been taught that it is effectively during the 'first breath'. It makes 'us' parasites of sorts

No doctrine exists on the matter as far as I know.. but the above is widely accepted it seems.

[Hemidakota]

I can tell you right now you will get a variety of answers. I can't remember which General Authority. I will have to search..said there is no definite answer to that one. Simply we don't know. I'll see if I can find that again for you. So take it with a grain of salt till I can find something more definitive.

This is an incorrect statement, whether it was a General Authority or not. Even a few months ago, when I attended a Gospel Doctrine class, a wonderful teacher but her statement, “…no person can know their spirit life”, was also incorrect answer. Never assumed and never speculate, there are members in the church have the knowledge.

How is this possible? We have a restored gospel where now, nothing is in impossible to gain truths of ‘what was, what is, and what shall be.’ We can know our status before the GOD. We can know our spiritual beginning prior before mortality. We can know our next tasking after mortality while in mortality. Nothing but our own self, can prevent this knowledge be received.

[Hemidakota]

As to when the soul populates the body.. it is/has been taught that it is effectively during the 'first breath'. It makes 'us' parasites of sorts

No doctrine exists on the matter as far as I know.. but the above is widely accepted it seems.

Do you remember in the Book of Mormon, where Nephi [the prophet during the birth of Christ] had a conversion with the Lord a day prior to His birth upon the earth?

I would leave this answer to those faithful mothers who would know when life has entered the womb.

[Hemidakota]

I have been looking into the LDS Church for some time and these are important things to know in making any kind of decision about any religion. So acting under the only stupid question is an unasked question rule I ask.

All that is posted can be answered...how important these are to you [desire] is a start on how they will be answered when you are spiritually mature enough to understand it.

Are you willing go through trials of fire for precious morsel of truth?

[MrsAri]

All that is posted can be answered...how important these are to you [desire] is a start on how they will be answered when you are spiritually mature enough to understand it.

Are you willing go through trials of fire for precious morsel of truth?

Yep, and the day you become a woman and give birth, you'll know when life begins. lol

[bmy-]

Yep, and the day you become a woman and give birth, you'll know when life begins. lol

I find it odd that women 'know' when life begins.. yet on the other hand they do not know when it ends inside the body. That's besides the point that women do not know they are pregnant until there are testable signs.

[MrsAri]

I find it odd that women 'know' when life begins.. yet on the other hand they do not know when it ends inside the body. That's besides the point that women do not know they are pregnant until there are testable signs.

You're not a woman.

[Misshalfway]

I find it odd that women 'know' when life begins.. yet on the other hand they do not know when it ends inside the body. That's besides the point that women do not know they are pregnant until there are testable signs.

What makes you think they don't know when it ends? I could list many women who just "knew" there was something wrong and even some who knew that their baby was gone before the doctors confirmed it. But I think you have to remember too that the truth about something as sad as this is hard to look at and perhaps some who know don't want to know. Not that everyone has this kind of intuition all the time. And its not to say that the feelings are always infallible. But women "know" things when it comes to their kids. It's just a fact.

I don't know if that proves when the spirit enters the body and I actually wonder if it may vary depending on the case (not that anyone on this side of the veil knows).....but I think it confirms that life begins early for those who can see beyond the confines of science.

[RipplecutBuddha]

I tried the church website but got a message stating that the page was unavailable. So I thought "why not post on my favorite lds forum?"

So I am trying to understand the preexistence a little better from the initial intelligences to full mortal birth.

What condition are the intelligences in before spiritual formation?

RCB-- I'm not sure that has ever been explained. We just don't know.

How does the spiritual formation (I have also heard it refered to as spiritual birth. Hopefully someone can elaborate) take place?

RCB--Again, to my knowledge, we just don't know.

What is the reason we are formed into spiritual bodies?

RCB--Because it is an essential step in becoming more like God the Father. It is why we exist at all.

Why is it required that we take a mortal form for the period of time that we have to?

RCB--Because it's the only way we can gain a physical body. If there were a better way, I am certain God would have done it that way instead. As it is, this must be the best way. Once more it is an essential step in our eternal progress toward becoming like God is.

When does the 'soul' populate the human mortal body?

RCB--I'm not certain where it could be found, but I believe it is at conception. *personal belief*

And I guess the final question I have is why does all this have to take place?

RCB--Because we are the literal offspring of God. Every offspring carries within itself the potential to become as the parent is. This truth is reflected throughout the earth in all the various examples of life we see around us. If it is true for corn, cats, and amoeba, why wouldn't the same truth apply to us?

Sorry to be long winded here but I am trying to understand these concepts.

Thank you all for your time.

Not a problem at all, and not bad questions at all.

Edited September 15, 2009 by RipplecutBuddha
reducing confusion for how I replied...