lattelady Posted October 10, 2009 Report Posted October 10, 2009 Here's a question we batted around when I was in Bible College: Do we sin because we're sinners, or are we sinners because we sin?
jadams_4040 Posted October 10, 2009 Report Posted October 10, 2009 Here's a question we batted around when I was in Bible College:Do we sin because we're sinners, or are we sinners because we sin? We sin sometimes because of ignorance, and most the time we sin cause we are to be challenged for a good cause; and that cause is eternal salvation;:)
john doe Posted October 10, 2009 Report Posted October 10, 2009 Here's a question we batted around when I was in Bible College:Do we sin because we're sinners, or are we sinners because we sin?And the answer is: ......................Yes.
Traveler Posted October 10, 2009 Report Posted October 10, 2009 Here's a question we batted around when I was in Bible College:Do we sin because we're sinners, or are we sinners because we sin? Sometimes I do not think the doctrine of the fall is understood very well. Because of the fall we are in a state where there is nothing we can do that is of any eternal merit. Therefore it does not matter because we are in a state that will result in death, even if it were possible that we lived without committing any sins. Thus it is that the sacrifice and redemption of Christ does two things. First there is a way provided to move beyond a fallen state to a state of glory and resurrection and thus overcome sin and death. The second is that because of Christ we can merit the fruits of any good that we do (layup in store treasures in heaven). Personally I believe that the concept of sinner is outside of the understanding of the grace of G-d and the purpose of his creation. Rather we should refer to all as divine offspring of G-d in a temporary mortal and fallen state The Traveler
dazed-and-confused Posted October 10, 2009 Report Posted October 10, 2009 LOL.....good one....i love questions of timing.......and, as stated above, yes. sometimes we are this, sometimes we are that....it's all a question of timing.
deseretgov Posted October 10, 2009 Report Posted October 10, 2009 THat's liek saying does 1+1 = 2? Or does 2 = 1+1? It's the same thing.
AnthonyB Posted October 10, 2009 Report Posted October 10, 2009 Is the question in the same category as.... Are we living because we're alive, Or are we alive because we're living.
Guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Posted October 10, 2009 what comes first, the chicken or the egg?
Snow Posted October 10, 2009 Report Posted October 10, 2009 Here's a question we batted around when I was in Bible College:Do we sin because we're sinners, or are we sinners because we sin?Think about it for a second. If you sin because you are a sinner than the blame belongs to the creator of the sinner. God would to blame for creating you a sinner.
Maya Posted October 10, 2009 Report Posted October 10, 2009 We are not born sinners. Sinn gives short time pleasure... how much easier it is to get som,ething big accompished if you get a trofy every now and then. To wait for 5 years to get your diploma would not work without annual, monthly, even weekly trofies. It is hard to be presistant....
lattelady Posted October 11, 2009 Author Report Posted October 11, 2009 That would be a difference in beliefs...I believe we are born sinners: therefore it would be correct to say (in my belief system) I sin because I'm a sinner--NOT, "I'm a sinner because I sin." If "I'm-a-sinner-because-I-sin" were true, then we would not be considered a sinner until we commit the first sin and are held accountable for it. I believe that the Bible teaches we are sinners at birth--even before we COMMIT a sin. We have a sin NATURE. Through one man (ADAM) sin entered the world and the whole human race, so that from Adam on, all generations would be under the curse of sin. This is why it was necessary for God to send Jesus to a fallen world. So it wasn't meant to be a trick question, or one that is like 1+1+2 and 2=1+1; they are two polar opposite thoughts. Two totally different belief systems.
pam Posted October 11, 2009 Report Posted October 11, 2009 Though one of our Articles of Faith states: We believe that men will be punished for their own sins and not for Adam's transgression. My personal thought on this..we aren't born into sin. We become sinners. We come into the world without sin. We aren't sinners because Adam brought sin into the world.
Maureen Posted October 11, 2009 Report Posted October 11, 2009 (edited) Think about it for a second. If you sin because you are a sinner than the blame belongs to the creator of the sinner. God would to blame for creating you a sinner.Not true. God created mankind perfectly, it was mankind who chose to become sinners. BTW, I believe we sin because we're sinners; I believe in original sin.M. Edited October 11, 2009 by Maureen
pam Posted October 11, 2009 Report Posted October 11, 2009 I took Snow's comment to mean exactly as you stated Maureen. I think what he was trying to say was if we are born sinners then it the creator who created us that way. I could be wrong but that is how I interpreted his comment.
Snow Posted October 11, 2009 Report Posted October 11, 2009 Not true. God created mankind perfectly, it was mankind who chose to become sinners. BTW, I believe we sin because we're sinners; I believe in original sin.M.Well no Maureen. The point I made is that it is problematic to believe that we are sinners and therefore we sin, that would give God - the creator of the sinner - the blame for our sin. If you personally believe that we were created perfect but choose to sin, then that is a matter of not being sinners inherently but choosing to sin than thus becoming sinners. Which is the reverse of the point I was making.However, if you believe the non-biblical notion of original sin then that still makes God responsible for you being a sinner. Why people insisti on blaming God for their situation is beyond me.
Maureen Posted October 11, 2009 Report Posted October 11, 2009 I took Snow's comment to mean exactly as you stated Maureen. I think what he was trying to say was if we are born sinners then it the creator who created us that way. I could be wrong but that is how I interpreted his comment.12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned...18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. (Romans 5)M.
Maureen Posted October 11, 2009 Report Posted October 11, 2009 Well no Maureen. The point I made is that it is problematic to believe that we are sinners and therefore we sin, that would give God - the creator of the sinner - the blame for our sin. If you personally believe that we were created perfect but choose to sin, then that is a matter of not being sinners inherently but choosing to sin than thus becoming sinners. Which is the reverse of the point I was making.See post #18.However, if you believe the non-biblical notion of original sin then that still makes God responsible for you being a sinner. Why people insisti on blaming God for their situation is beyond me.Romans 5 explains the idea of original sin. Adam was responsible for our sinful nature why do you think it would be God's fault?M.
pam Posted October 11, 2009 Report Posted October 11, 2009 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned...18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. (Romans 5)M. I just don't interpret verse 12 in the same way it seems. It seems to me that the verse is stating that because of the sin of Adam, sin entered the world as well as death...so anyone born after that is of course subject to death. Also that none of us perfect therefor subject to sinning. I don't take it to mean that we are born sinners. It's kind of like we are guilty until proven innocent. That just doesn't make sense to me.I think we choose to sin after we are born..because we aren't perfect not because we are born sinners.
Maureen Posted October 11, 2009 Report Posted October 11, 2009 ...I think we choose to sin after we are born..because we aren't perfect not because we are born sinners.Why are we not perfect then if we are not born sinners? Why do we sin if we don't have to?M.
pam Posted October 11, 2009 Report Posted October 11, 2009 It's called agency. How many perfect people do you know in this world? Those that have NEVER sinned because they don't have to?
pam Posted October 11, 2009 Report Posted October 11, 2009 I guess I just don't understand why a loving Heavenly Father would send us into the world with the label of sinner already attached to us. That too doesn't make sense to me.
Maureen Posted October 11, 2009 Report Posted October 11, 2009 (edited) It's called agency. How many perfect people do you know in this world? Those that have NEVER sinned because they don't have to?That's just it, I don't know anyone that has never sinned. But if we have the choice to not sin, why are there no sinners?M. Edited October 11, 2009 by Maureen
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