Falling apart

[mlbrowninwa]

I have not been posting. Been going through some rough times here. I lost my job a few weeks ago and am having marriage problems to boot. Loosing the job has given me a lot of time alone and the job search has been depressing as I'm sure it is for so many others. But what I have realized is that my marriage is not well either. Last Thursday my wife and I talked and I found out how bad it is. We talked some more on Saturday as well.

As most of you know, I joined the church without her. She was very involved with things at work and said she didn't want to stand in my way if that was what I felt I must do. But I guess we didn't talk as much as we should have and I took her opposition to the church as an attack on me personally. But she now says she is having a hard time getting past it. There are other things as well, but this seems to be the biggest one. I have also been working on some of the other things she told me about and want nothing more to get back to where we were.

We have been married for 17 years, have two great kids and from the outside would look to have the perfect marriage. She has been so distant and Saturday told me that over the last year she has been here more for the kids than anything. The week I was baptized she said she almost left, but she didn't want to make that decision based on the emotions of the moment. I suggested consoling, but we can't afford it right now and I'm not sure that would work anyway as I've seen it fail with most of the couples I've known over the years that have tried that.

I also feel that there may be someone else but that may just be me. I asked her about that on Saturday, and she said there was not, but I know that she constantly emails someone she works with and seems to be really looking forward to him coming back here in a couple weeks for a project they are working on. Believe me it's not that she is overjoyed with working on the project. That just doesn't seem right to me. And even though she tells me nothing is going on, I can't seem to get past it. She told me it would take time and that she is still here because we have been together for so long. But inside I feel she is just buying time. I don't know what to do. I am flying back home this week to see my family for a week. I don't really want to go at this point, but it might be the best thing to help clear my head. I miss her so much and we are living in the same house. I am also questioning my involvement in the church because I don't want to further damage the marriage if it's that big of a deal to her.

I'm sorry for the ramble, I just need to hear some advise from someone and have always been able to count on this board for that. Right now I'm lost.

[Jenamarie]

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time.

In regards to your wife, could it be that she's having an emotional affair with her co-worker? She may not even realize that that's what it is (she may just think that there being "no one else" means there's no one else she's being intimate with). There was a great article in one of the more recent Ensigns (I think September or August?) about emotional affairs that you may want to read to see if they fit your wife's situation with her co-worker. (and I'm not saying that she's hiding anything from you intentionally, it may just be that, since it's not an "affair" in the traditional sense of the word, she thinks her relationship with her co-worker isn't inappropriate)

Many prayers for you and your family.

[mlbrowninwa]

I remember that article. And I did bring that up as a possibility when we talked. When she said no I told her that I wasn't necessarily talking about a physical relationship, that sometimes it can be just emotional and that could be just as bad. She said that when things get like they have been, she just buries herself in something like work or fixing things in the house. She said she has closed herself off to me and she was sorry about that and apologized for hurting me. But the remainder of the weekend was no better and she was as distant as ever.

Thank you for the prayers!

[Gwen]

i hate to give an impersonal answer and throw a link at you but sometimes we have to find the right answer for us... here are some resources that can help with that http://www.lds.net/forums/advice-board/25622-resources-links-your-marriage.html pray about which one might be right for you.

i'm starting to become of the opinion that most of these should be required reading before getting married.

hang in there and god bless you in your search.

[mlbrowninwa]

Thanks for the links Gwen. I have visited some of those already. The church's sites I'm sure can help me and I will be looking through some of those. I've been trying the Fireproof marriage suggestions and am receiving emails from one of the other sites as well. I think a talk with the Bishop may be in order as well when I return from my trip. I know my wife will never take advice from the church, but it may help me get past some things.

[pam]

You know I just adore ya...therefore your post is just extremely saddening to me. I've watched you going through your conversion process and know of your excitement when you finally joined the Church.

Absolutely talk to your Bishop. Explain to him the circumstances...especially the concerns you mentioned with your involvement in the Church. Let him be your spiritual advisor on this matter. That's what he's there for.

Just thinking aloud here..but perhaps your wife feels your love for her has transferred to your love of the gospel and the Church. If that be the case..I'm sure she doesn't understand that your love for the those things can also be a tremendous help in strengthening your love for her and for your family.

I realize I don't know if that is the case..again just thinking aloud. I've seen it happen before is all.

I don't have any great words of advice...except speak with your Bishop. I'll be thinking of you and will include you in my prayers. You've become a great friend on this site and I only want the best for you.

[mlbrowninwa]

Thanks Pam. If there can be one thing that I can say has been good about the job loss is the fact that it has given me time to focus on other things. It has opened my eyes to the problems here at home between not only my wife, but my kids as well. I have often put my job first in my life and can now see that it has got me nothing. Kids are great though. You can sit them down and apologize for things and even at the ages mine are, their forgiveness is so heart felt. We as adults can learn so much from them and their ability to forgive and move on.

[Misshalfway]

I am not saying this as a judgment against your wife, but it seems that she hasn't been able to deal properly with her feelings or concerns throughout the 17 years of your marriage. It seems like she is avoiding conflict or stuffing her emotions or blaming you quietly rather than problem solving them either in her own mind or with negotiating conversations with you. Sounds like she has been numbing herself by work and projects rather and dealing. And when we do stuff like that, we tell ourselves that we are safe, but in reality we are just letting problems fester and turn into bigger issues than they were in the beginning. It's a form of denial and it leads to things like passive aggression and other unhealthy defense mechanisms.

I mean its a little unfair of her to expect you to deal correctly with her feelings when she isn't willing to deal with them in the first place.

I honestly think lots of marriages struggle with this kind of stuff because we go into marriage with perhaps unrealistic definitions and expectations of what happiness in marriage is. We think we have to agree on religion for example. I think it is a huge mistake to think that our marriage partners (and ourselves for that matter) won't change or struggle or cause our situations to change drastically. I don't know any married couple that hasn't had some sort of wrecking ball to deal with.

So.....hopefully you two can start over and learn to use better tools to solve problems and negotiate solutions. It seems at the very least communication skills need some work.

I am sorry you are finding yourself in this situation. Take care with yourself from moment to moment. Don't let the pain get you stuck in defensiveness. Rather find ways to hold your ground and your non-negotiables in love.

Get some help from marriage therapy and self help books. I hope you and your wife can get at least on board with the solution to the problems.

[beefche]

I am so very sorry to hear this.

A couple of thoughts. First, does your wife have any sort of employee assistance program at her work? EAPs are often offered through companies and will allow a certain amount of counseling for free (my EAP offers counseling for any reason for 6 sessions total for free--anything after the 6 sessions would be paid through my medical coverage or myself). Counseling might be a good idea at least for a few sessions to foster open communication for both of you.

The other thing that I thought of was why is she so upset by your baptism? This is a rhetorical question and so please no need to answer this here. Is it because she feels it is taking your attention away from her and the family? Is it that she feels that it is so completely of the devil that she fears what changes you'll bring to the family? Does she resent you being gone for 3 hours on Sunday? I would find out the REAL reason for her objections. Then find a way to overcome those objections. If 3 hours at church is too much because she feels neglected during that time, find out what you can do to help her not feel neglected. Perhaps having another night for the 2 of you to have a date.

I think that the 2 of you need to be open about needs, wants, and desires for the marriage. Find out what she feels the marriage needs--then work together on that. Make some specific goals together on what to do to foster a stronger relationship--things you can do together and things to do as individuals.

[mlbrowninwa]

You know it's kind of funny. We are together most of the time. Over the last few months she had been training for a marathon on Saturdays. Sometimes this would take several hours in the morning. And then on Sunday's I go to church and our ward meets in the middle of the day, which I know she doesn't like(that's getting ready to change to 9am start). I think we do a lot of things together, she brings up the things we do not. She has often said that she is afraid of having these conversations with me because i end up getting upset, so she just "shuts down" and says nothing. This of course leads to the six hour arguments once every six months. I have to admit that I can get quite heated at times and take full responsibility for that. However like I told her Saturday, we have to do a better job talking to each other so that doesn't happen or get to that point.

When we were talking Saturday, I noticed such a tone in her remarks that lead me to believe that things are worse than I think. Everything seemed so final in her mind. Going into how we would get along if we split, would it be best for my son to move to Virginia with me to have a better support system(daughter heading to college upcoming year). She said more than once that "it's hard for people to keep the promises they make when they're 21 because you don't really realize what you're doing that young." Well I can say for sure I did!

All I guess I can do at this point is try to be supportive and work on the things that I said I would. She has asked for time, that it's not a "light switch" to turn on. I don't really understand, but i guess the best way forward it try to be the best husband I can and continue to pray that things will work out. I feel really alone right now and always look to fix anything I find wrong quickly. It really hurts to think I can't fix this.

[Moksha]

What is bothering her so much about your Church membership?

[pam]

I think that is a big question to be answered.

[ttribe]

This may sound contrary to what you may be feeling, but you may need to put your marriage before the Church for a while until you can get some things worked out. This may require a discussion with your Bishop about callings, etc. If she understands your commitment to her, she may be more willing to hear why the Church is important to you. In the meantime, it seems she may be feeling a sense of abandonment...like you've "left" her for something else.

[mlbrowninwa]

What is bothering her so much about your Church membership?

You know that is a BIG question and I don't know the answer to that. I never can get her to really talk about it. Anytime we talk about it we just end up with her saying she is never converting. When she was young she went to church and watched her parents praise the gospel while being abusive and the church relationship was only on Sunday. I think that has something to do with it. She never was really interested in going to any church. However joining a lot of other churches carry no commitmant. There are no three hours services, home teaching(both in our home and me outside) and callings, etc. We are very hands on and involved.

However in the same talk, she is praising the positive influence the church is having on my son, talking about how that might be the one thing in his life that keeps him in the right path. My son could do a lot better in my opinion, but i think most 15 year olds are that way. But she views his membership as his decision and mine as I'm not the man she married. My argument has been that I'm trying to be a better man and the church helps me do that. But for some reason she can't figure that out. So I try to respect her feelings.

She has a very demanding job and puts in a lot of hours. I know that the project that she is working on has put more stress in her life than she has ever had in this job. I understand that. I try my best to schedule anything that I am doing with church during her work hours so it doesn't effect our time together, but that can't be done all the time. I have managed to have my home teachings outside of the house so she doesn't feel unconfortable.

But this has been going on for longer than I have been a member of the church. It just gives fuel to the fire I think. So I struggle with changing anything related to church as I'm not sure that's the real problem.

[prisonchaplain]

Just a thought here...and you may have already done this extensively...but allow her to share what's on her mind, without interruption. Avoid the temptation to explain/defend yourself, and just let her pour out her heart. Listen hard, and don't try to solve her feelings or the troubles she may raise. When she's really done, rather than promise to do better, or attempt some immediate fixes, just show her you heard what she had to say, that you take it seriously, and that your goal is her security, sense of wellbeing, and to restore the sense of love that bound you together. Father God, cover this family right now with your protection and blessings. Let your angels stand guard. Drive away all demonic influences that would try to tear this family apart. Perform the miracle of reconciliation. In Jesus' name, amen.

[pam]

In the meantime, it seems she may be feeling a sense of abandonment...like you've "left" her for something else.

That's kind of what I was getting out in my original post on this thread.

[mlbrowninwa]

This may sound contrary to what you may be feeling, but you may need to put your marriage before the Church for a while until you can get some things worked out.

No, actually i have thought about that and am considering it as a possibility.

[ttribe]

No, actually i have thought about that and am considering it as a possibility.

Honestly, I think it may be a good idea. The Church is not here to tear apart your marriage, and if there are struggles right now, your Bishop is likely to understand the need to be a little less "activity" for a while so you get some things smoothed over.

Edited October 12, 2009 by ttribe

[pam]

But it's also important to sit down with the Bishop and let him know of these things.

[Misshalfway]

I think the church is in the business of saving marriages. I mean a person can't become a bishop without the consent of his wife. Marriages come first. I would think the teachings of the church would support efforts to put the needs of your wife first. I know of a part member situation and the member wife did not take out her endowments because of the wishes of her husband. She says she feels the confirmation of the spirit helping her and that it will all be taken care of.

[mlbrowninwa]

But it's also important to sit down with the Bishop and let him know of these things.

Yes I know and was planning on talking to him anyway when I get back next week from my trip. Like you said, he can offer some advice as well. Regardless if it's really church related or not, after what I heard the last couple days I would be talking with him.

[pam]

Hang in there my friend. You've got friends here that care about ya.

[mlbrowninwa]

I first want to thank everyone for all the helpful advice that has been posted to my thread. There's a saying that things are darkest before the dawn and last night in my mind things couldn't be more dark. I don't know if it was right or not, but as I stated in my first post I thought something was going on with someone else. I couldn't get that out of my head and thought I must know in order to move on and the fact that my wife said there was no one else didn't relieve my mind.

A few days ago I hacked her yahoo email account. She has been emailing someone she works with over the last couple months. That is were the questions came front and center in my mind. And even though she said there was nothing going on with anyone, I felt there was. Yesterday she sent him an email that I intercepted that could only come across as them having an affair. If I posted it, there is no one that would not come to the same conclusion that I did. So I confronted her with a copy of it last night. She insists there is nothing going on and over 17 years of marriage she has never lied to me or given my a reason not to trust her.

She told me that reading the email she sees that it came across totally the wrong way and she sees why I would be concerned. We had a long talk about everything last night and I have shredded the copies of it that I had to try to move on. She told me that she would end the personal side of the relationship and keep things just business. And if she could she would assign him to work with someone else, but at times that is not an option. They do not work together daily. We are in Portland, OR and he is in Atlanta, GA. So there are plenty of miles in between them most of the time.

She told me that he is my biggest supporter and he is one of the reasons that she is still here. So I am going to continue to try to move on, but that was a pretty big blow last night. Today I can't help but feel that I am being naive about it and it's a tough morning.

[Misshalfway]

Wow. It sounds like you have been through an emotional meat grinder!

I must say that I am impressed that you wife is being honest and responsible in cutting the relationship if it appears threatening to you. It appears she is sincere and has respect for you. It prolly will take a few days to process this conversation and feel the spirit correctly about it. I think it was good that you confronted the issue too. It was eating at you. Good for you.

[mlbrowninwa]

It sounds like you have been through an emotional meat grinder!

That is so true!!