Should I tell them?

[funkenheimer]

I am recently divorced. I have full custody of our two children. So far my daughters seem to be adjusting very well. I have taken them to counseling and they have met with the bishop of our new ward. I have talked to them pretty openly about the divorce and they understand it is not their fault and that both my ex wife and I love them very much. In talking to them about the divorce I have always stopped short of telling them the reason for the divorce. My ex wife has a long history of drug abuse and she suffers from severe depression. To be more specific she has 4 felony arrests, 4 times she was in rehab (twice in-patient), and 3 suicide attempts.

The question I am asking is do I tell them the reasons for the divorce? In some of our conversations I sensed they are confused. If I do tell them, how much do I tell them?

Please don't turn this into a "why you should not have left your wife session". I have had that conversation and I don't care to have it again. I just need to know what to tell my kids.

[Misshalfway]

I think you can tell them the truth....but make it age appropriate. And then you can fill in the details over the years.

Maybe you could say "mommy is sick right now and needs some help." Or some other such explanation that doesn't deny what is happening but doesn't give them more than they can handle.

[Misshalfway]

Sorry. I just assumed your kids were young. How old are your kids?

[funkenheimer]

They are ages 9 and 11

[will227457]

no I do not think it is age appropiate at this time....

maybe a milder version of the truth to be filled in as they grow older in their understanding of adult things.....

have they even asked? if they haven't asked avoid the subject till it comes up, because it will be hard for them to hear...

[rameumptom]

The conversation depends upon the age and maturity of your daughters. If they are small, they do not need details. Older kids can understand that Mom has a problem with drug addiction, and we should all pray for her that she can someday overcome it. Younger children just need to know that Mom's struggling with stuff, and we will pray for her to overcome it.

In this way, the kids do not feel they are at fault, but also understand that you hold no rancor towards their Mom, but want them to pray with you that she can get better someday.

[john doe]

I agree with Ram. Tell them that mom has some problems and that you acted to keep them safe. As they get older then you can share more as they are able to handle things. Don't lie to them, but they also don't have to know all the gory details either.

[Gwen]

i'm sorry i disagree... that kind of info is the mother's business and it is up to her to decide when and how much they should know... saying she is sick is fine, other very general explanations... do not give details, that is up to her.

my parents divorced when i was 20 or 21... my dad told me things about my mom that were hers to tell. i was very upset that i heard it from him first. i called my mom immediately and talked to her about it. i wasn't so much upset about what i learned but how. it was my mom's place to tell me not my dad's no matter how much it was part of the "reason" for the divorce. it was her past, her life, her information to share with her kids when she was ready... not his. if after i had learned about it and went to him to discuss his perspective on it or how it affected their marriage then he has the right to talk to me about it, but not until i open that door. because of what he did i will not talk to him about it.... i don't care what he thinks on the subject anymore. he violated that trust. even if you are not married anymore there are things you know due to spousal privilege and it should always be respected as such.

if you really really think they need to know then you need to talk to your ex about it and maybe their counselor. let the ex and counselor decide how and when and how much they should know. i don't think it's inappropriate for you to request to know what they have been told once it happens so if they do come to you you know what they know and how it was shared.

but that's just my perspective and yes i know it's very biased.

[funkenheimer]

I think most here have suggested to talk to them in broad generalities without specifics.

They do know some of what has happened. They know about the last arrest and the last time she was in rehab. They do know a little about her addiction but not much.

The difference is she will not likely tell them the truth any time soon as she still has not come to terms with it herself. She often says things like, "It was you who left" and often in front of the girls. Although this may be technically accurate it is certainly not what happened.

I loved my wife. I still do. I don't want to do anything that would hurt her but at the same time I don't want my children thinking it was me who left her.

[Misshalfway]

If the children have witnessed the yucky parts of addictive behavior, then I would think it would be hard not to explain it in some detail. I think that kids are pretty smart. They know stuff is going on even though they may not be able to explain what they know.

[Guest Alana]

When I was four my parents divorced. It was because my dad got clean and sober and mother didn't. When my mom stopped showing up to visitations and later would call to say hi from jail, my dad told me why. My dad would tell me these things that same way he would have told me if a family friend was having a problem and it was affecting us. He never made my mother into the bad guy or connected her actions to myself. I think he did a wonderful job and growing up I felt very secure.

I think my dad did the right thing for me, even though I was young. I was able to understand what was going on and knew my mother had addictions and made poor choices, but it had nothing to do with myself.

Obviously there is no clear cut answer. How much contact your ex will have with the girls is a large factor. If there are regular visits and your wife can keep it together enough so that it doesn't affect your girls during those visitations and phone calls, then maybe there's a way around telling them. But really, you girls are old enough to know when they are being given the run around. They might be ok with that, and they might not. I know no matter what you don't want your ex to be the bad guy or for the girls to think she loves drugs more than she loves them. Either way, I'm glad you're there for the girls:)

[Gwen]

if they know about the last arrest and rehab then they know there are things that are unhealthy.... should make it easier for you to talk to them in generalities without giving details that are the mothers place to share.

i still think you should talk to the counselor about how/if to approach it.

something like... do you remember... (a few details to jog the memory of it, not relive it)... that was very hard on all of us. your mom is sick and i want to be there for her. some decisions only she can make no matter how much i want to help her. i also have you girls to think of, i have to take care of you. this is a decision i made to help give you the best life i know how. .....

something else to keep in mind is they may have blocked out the arrest and rehab. i know my stepson blocks things out. there are things that happened in the last 18 months that if i ask him about it he doesn't remember. at least he claims to not remember. he doesn't want to see it and deal with it so it didn't happen. i've seen him do this from the time he was very young.

[Bini]

Your kids have a right to know what's going on. You don't need to bombard them with a train wreck of nitty gritty details. Obviously, as others have stated, you provide information that is age appropriate and add more detail as they have questions etc etc. Sometimes kids understand a lot more than what we accredit them for. It's better to be open about things instead of avoiding them and having the kids piece the jigsaw puzzle together themselves with a lot of unanswered questions and confusion.

[Moksha]

Wait till they're older.

[jameslentz]

i think it can surprise us how much our children already know and by what age. Maybe asking them questions to find out what they already know will tell you how to proceed.

[ryanh]

I simply ask my children if they have any questions or concerns about a situation. Find out their feelings and what is on their mind before deciding what is or is not appropriate to start explaining to them. One may be hurting and confused, but the other unphased. Each child likely has differing needs for explanations from you. You won't know until you do some "finding out".

[dazed-and-confused]

lots of good stuff here.....

i think your kids are way too young for the real truth......

and maybe when mommie is more into her recovery, she will explain it a bit....

dont get me wrong, this is not about passing the buck....but since she is the focal point of things, and IF she can accept responsibility for her actions as a means of recovery....i would think that she might offer some explaination about it.

as it is,.....yes, by all means, simply try to address you kids' fears, feelings, etc. and leave the reality for it until they are older......

assuming that you want to not tarnish their relationship with mommie....

fact is.....how much trust should you have for them with mommie?

just something to consider.......of course i know NOTHING of these things in your life.

[mightynancy]

Tell them that mom has some problems and that you acted to keep them safe.

This.

Simply saying that Mommy is sick is dangerous - the kids will panic every time they are ill, thinking that it's cause for a breakup. James is right, too...ask them what they think, what they already know, and what questions they really have.

[funkenheimer]

Thanks for the advice. Let me add some more to the story.

After talking to my former mother-in-law last night I am pretty sure she has relapsed again. My divorce papers stipulate that I can require random drug testing. I sent her the email this morning and she has 24 hours to get tested from a state approved drug testing facility. If the test is dirty she loses visitation until she tests clean again.

So the question now is this, the girls are planning on staying the weekend with their mom. If she fails her drug test, which is likely, what do I tell them? They know their mother has had problems with drugs in the past, but they have no idea how extensive it was. I have always been pretty open and honest with them but this is new territory for me. I don't want to tarnish the image they have of their mother, but at the same time I don't want them to fell that this is in any way their fault. I have tried to reinforce this all along and I think I have been successful.

I have been praying about this and I have an appointment with my bishop this evening to talk to him about it. I hope if/when the time comes I will know what to say.

*edit - I forgot to mention this - my wife has had some pretty serious medical issues in the past and when I have told them she was "sick" they get very worried. I don't think this is an option in this situation.

[Gwen]

is there a way for them to visit but not stay over, meet at the park or out for dinner, where you can observe from a distance, know what is going on but give them "private" time with mom?... things of that nature... do you trust her parents? can she visit them at their house... ?

i think they are old enough to understand addiction and they know there has been drug use so i think they can understand that much. you can explain some. not sure how much or how to approach it though, hope your bishop has some good advise, maybe the counselor can help with that.

i know sister is different than mom but something i experienced, maybe will give another perspective, or maybe not. lol my sister had some drug problems, i was barely starting school (but i can still remember it). i didn't understand it all, but i knew my sister had some problems she needed help with, she was in a rehab program that was 2 hours away. every weekend we were packed up in the car and would drive to see her. we didn't get to see her very often, most the time she was in meetings with my parents and the rest of us kids played outside. we'd see her for a few min after the meeting before being packed back up on the car to travel home. i don't remember everything because i was so young, but i do know i learned a very important lesson. wasn't until high school that i could put it into words. some of the kids at school said, "if i ever..... my parents would kill me, they would never speak to me again.... what would your parents do?" my response was "there is nothing in this world i could do to make my parents that upset. they would be disappointed in me but they would always be there." i knew because of my sister. they were there for her, we went along, they made sure i had the chance to know who my sister was outside of the drugs. i knew if that had been me they would do the same.

i guess my point is if they already know, then using what they know, do all you can to keep those contacts open. they may not be able to go for the weekend visits, completely understandable, but that doesn't mean you can't take the girls to meet her at a restaurant for a few hours, or visit somewhere. when the girls see you making efforts to keep that relationship open they will know the times you said "no" to weekend stays or whatever it wasn't cause you were being selfish. you said no for a reason. they will also know you will be there for them. they probably won't realize all this today or tomorrow, may even be mad today or tomorrow, but at some point when it matters the most it will be there.

i'm glad you care about your girls enough to ponder all this.

[funkenheimer]

Currently my ex-wife is living with her mom and dad who I do trust. They live next door to her sister, who I also trust. If she fails her drug test she will lose visitation, however I can allow supervised visitation meaning I will leave them with her mom or sister but she can't be alone with them. This is most likely what will happen.

In the past when she has only been allowed supervised visitation she has come over to my house on occasion and spent time with them while I was in a back room (doors open).

Thanks for the words of advice. I think I know now how I am going to approach this. I am not 100% sure so I won't post yet. But I will post an update. I did just get a call from the clinic that performed the drug test and she did test positive so that means supervised visitation at the most.

[ViolinGirl]

What a sad situation for your kids. I give you all the credit in the world for trying to keep their mother in their life...a lot of 'exs' I know would have just shut the door on visitations. Mom is still important, even if she has problems. Your kids probably know and understand more about the situation than you think they do and they will figure everything out and form their own opinions about mom soon enough. I think the best thing you can do is keep the lines of communication open between you and your kids, honestly answer the questions they have and do whatever you can to reassure them that they are loved and safe and surrounded by family who care. You're a terrific dad and I know your kids will be just fine because they have you to support and guide them.

[ladykemma2]

i think the kids should hear the truth. age appropriate truth. and a counselor should tell them, not you. i do not think you should shelter them. they probably know anyway.

[FairChild]

You are such a good dad and I know this is not easy for you. In this world there are choices and then consquenses that follow those choices, good or bad whatever the choices were. If it were me, I would tell my children that because certain choices are/were made, this is what follows. Most important, love your children. They are precious and times flies so fast when they are little. Perhaps people at AlaNon could give you some thoughts about how to handle your ex's screaming and blaming you. Tell the children that you will always tell them the truth and do that, even if it is difficult. Right now, they don't need the details. Keep a journal so that if needs be, they can read it and better understand what happened. There will be plenty of times for questions. Do your best to give your little ones loving and healthy memories. I hope my 2 cents worth helps.

[Guest missingsomething]

The question I am asking is do I tell them the reasons for the divorce? In some of our conversations I sensed they are confused. If I do tell them, how much do I tell them?

QUOTE]

Just my opinion here... but they have already "lost" their mother. I don't know that going into the detail that will probably lower their opinion of her .. is really that great of an idea. You have to ask yourself and be perfectly honest... who's it going to benefit to tell them about their mother? If you can make it benefical for them - then go ahead..but I would do it in therapy or talk to their counselor about how to do it.

They've seen her behavior - but seeing it and knowing all the details... two different things. My dad suffered and while I assumed I knew the details, being told about it - somehow made it worse. I wish I had just been told - mom and dad wanted different things out of life and we went about getting them differently. Dad had problems, but we can still love him... we are a family and always will be.

I would say when they are much older... as in gone off to college... you could give them a simple..... "family health history" like mom suffered severe depression... (a lot of people with mental illness also abuse drugs/alcohol in an attempt to self medicate)

Telling them might make you feel better....but I dont feel they need to know this - they dont need to know how badly their mom struggled, especially in light of a recent divorce. :)

Good luck with it all though.

Edited October 18, 2009 by missingsomething
I spell horribly... I just found the spell check-but it doesnt download for me...go figure