Unitarian Minister requests: Stop bashing Mormons

[beefche]

Hey folks. If I recall my OP, yes mine, was about a non LDS minister writing an article about not going after LDS for no longer practiced beliefs.

What was supposed to be a nice article has turned in to something else.

Lets get back on track or as OP I will request that this thread be closed.

Ben Raines

Wait...was I supposed to read the OP? I thought we didn't need to do that....just go off on tangents as soon as the OP has posted?

[Guest Godless]

Wait...was I supposed to read the OP? I thought we didn't need to do that....just go off on tangents as soon as the OP has posted?

No, that only works in the Current Events forum.

[Moksha]

Hey folks. If I recall my OP, yes mine, was about a non LDS minister writing an article about not going after LDS for no longer practiced beliefs.

Ben Raines

I thought it was a great thing to write about. The Unitarian/Universalists are actually in a good position to help religious groups to get along, since one of their values is to not deny the religious ideas that newcomers to the UU tradition bring with them.

We Mormons have had our feet held to the fire for our past too often. We all change. When we lose weight, who among us wants our old size held against us?**

** For Ben: When our newly gamma irradiated bodies have added muscle, who among us would not wish to be praised.

:)

[superdad69]

Ok....I'm amazed by that. I was simply running with the conversation at hand. As soon as I start to learn I'm railroaded by a fellow service member of all people. Ok well you got it. I'm sorry for including my opinions here. Obviously they are falling on predominantly deaf ears. You all have some very good points and regardless of what is out there on the net I think you are a pretty well educated group for the most part. I would hate to cause your thread to be "closed" because I am asking questions and making you guys think so much so I will retire. Thank you all for all of your input, ideas, and even the criticism

"Semper Fi"

[BenRaines]

Funny Moksha :)

Ben Raines

[Vort]

Given the above set of conditions, could you have logically inferred that Vort might fly off the handle at superdad69's original post? Sure, you might have, had you known the above set of conditions.

Now: Was it logical for Vort to fly off the handle at superdad69? That is an entirely separate question, far more difficult to determine. But ultimately, the answer is almost certainly, No, it was not logical.

Finishing this line of reasoning, let me ask: Was it reasonable for Vort to fly off the handle as he did? That is a completely separate question from whether it was logical, since reasoning encompasses much more than mere logic.

Finally, was it right for Vort to fly off the handle? This, too is a completely separate question from whether Vort's reaction was (a) logical or (b) reasonable. The moral or ethical fitness of an action is independent of that action's logicality or reasonableness (though it may be related to both).

Vort thinks that perhaps he will refer to himself in the third person from now on.

[BenRaines]

Superdad, sorry that you see it as an attack on your opinions. It was not at all. For those who spend some time here and get to know us you will know that it is proper to follow the OP in a thread or start your own, as you have in the past.

FYI, I am an admin and if I wished to close the thread I could do it on my own. Don't need to tell anyone. Most who spend some time here understand that. :)

Ben Raines

[beefche]

Ok....I'm amazed by that. I was simply running with the conversation at hand. As soon as I start to learn I'm railroaded by a fellow service member of all people. Ok well you got it. I'm sorry for including my opinions here. Obviously they are falling on predominantly deaf ears. You all have some very good points and regardless of what is out there on the net I think you are a pretty well educated group for the most part. I would hate to cause your thread to be "closed" because I am asking questions and making you guys think so much so I will retire. Thank you all for all of your input, ideas, and even the criticism

"Semper Fi"

Huh? Did you say something? Sorry, I can't hear very well. Thanks for the backhanded compliment...I'm going to assume I'm in the group that is pretty well edjamacated.

dad, you haven't asked/said anything that any of us haven't encountered before. In fact, I think that a vast majority of the Mormons on this board have been attacked personally for their beliefs. I would venture to say that some of us reacted pretty strongly to those attacks. I remember one time I actually stuck my tongue out at someone after they insulted me and my mom for my heathen cultist satanic beliefs. I wanted to do more than stick my tongue out, but I was only willing to repent for the childish behavior, not anything more serious.

[prisonchaplain]

PC, I'm not sure I understand the reason for a Sunday preaching of other faith's beliefs/falsehoods. I think that for anyone who believes they attend the Lord's church, the pulpit is one where truth is taught, repentence is cried, and love is shown. IMO, the time to criticize other churches or beliefs is in personal settings. If a pastor is concerned that his flock is being "led away", then I would think preaching God's word (the pastor's interpretation) would be the best way to teach his congregation the truth and to recognize truth. So, when his flock is being talked to by anyone (missionaries, neighbors, cashier, etc), they can learn to recognize truth on their own.

My bff is Nazarene and I know she has had sermons on the evils of other religions/beliefs. I have just never understood the reason behind it--I understand the surface reason of warning others of evil--but I don't understand how discussing the evils of Satanism can bring the Holy Spirit in. I find that the fastest way for the Holy Ghost to attend a meeting is to talk of God's truth and love.

It's not common to hear such sermons. In fact, I never have in my 35 years as a Christian. I've heard references...Mormons believe in works salvation, and we know it's by grace...but never a full-blown sermon. In fact, the only Sunday School lesson I've had comparing religions is one I taught.

[prisonchaplain]

I think the issue has been addressed already by other posters, but I'll try this - when I was a missionary in TN and KY, I surely was evangelizing to many Christians of various sects. However, do you know what I carried in my bag for teaching materials? A Bible, a Book of Mormon, and lessons about my faith. Nowhere in that bag of mine would you find an anti-Pentecostal tract, or an anti-Church of God tract, etc. I didn't go into people's homes with the intention of tearing down their existing faith; but of building upon it. However, I've not met one evangelical who attempted to "witness" to me who, upon discovering my Mormon faith, didn't immediately launch into an attack (of some kind) on my current belief system before they told me a thing about theirs.

In sum, it is largely a matter of approach - one attempts to build on an existing faith structure; the other seeks to tear down the existing one and supplant it. Is the message of modern-day evangelical Christianity (so-called "mainstream") so weak that an entire of cottage industry of Anti-Mormonism must be built up to defend it? It hardly seems reasonable, in my opinion.

I understand, and can appreciate your church's approach. If I, as a pastor, know that you are preparing to come to my people's doors, would I not be remiss if I did not offer up something like: Here's what these folk believe, here's how we differ, and here might be some responses to offer?

We train our missionaries to be aware of the cultures they enter, the common ways of thinking, the general beliefs. To me it gets ungodly if the drive of such teaching is to make people feel hatred, bitterness, or anger. In retrospect, that's where I see films like The Godmakers falling short. The same could be said, btw, for some of the sensationalistic films and presentations that portray mainstream Islam as terrorist, women-opressing, & inherently anti-Democratic.

[john doe]

Ok....I'm amazed by that. I was simply running with the conversation at hand. As soon as I start to learn I'm railroaded by a fellow service member of all people. Ok well you got it. I'm sorry for including my opinions here. Obviously they are falling on predominantly deaf ears. You all have some very good points and regardless of what is out there on the net I think you are a pretty well educated group for the most part. I would hate to cause your thread to be "closed" because I am asking questions and making you guys think so much so I will retire. Thank you all for all of your input, ideas, and even the criticism

"Semper Fi"

Now that's funny. Even if it was meant as an insult.

[Vort]

Now that's funny. Even if it was meant as an insult.

It really makes me mad when someone makes me think. As is only logical.

[BenRaines]

Hey thanks all for participating. Until next thread this one is closed.

Ben Raines

[prisonchaplain]

Are you suggesting that the "God Makers" was not widely distributed, shown, and used to scare numerous flocks away from their evil Mormon neighbors throughout much of the 80's? I remember, as a child, having my best friend's Mom tell me how "devilish" my beliefs were as a result of the "God Makers" and other similar works (e.g. "The Mormon Mirage).

I saw it once. But, no, relative to the # of Christian churches, I don't think it was that widely distributed or seen. Further, fringe apologists, who engage in lowball tactics often do not end well. See The Christian Countercult Movement: Modern Personalities

If it's not Ed Decker, it's someone else - Richard Abanes, Michael Quinn, et. al. Go to your local "Christian" book store and see how many books about the Mormons you find (and you'll not find an objective analysis amongst them).

And then check how much dust they have on them. They are not the most popular books. And, though FAIRLDS reviews of The New Mormon Challenge, we pointed on theology, the apologetics group did recognize the professional tone and approach of the work. So, there are a few diamonds in the ruff.

I'd suggest to you that the "counter-cult" movement has always been a very minor segment of Protestantism, and even evangelicalism. IMHO it's waning even more, not less. Additionally, in the last 10 years or so, there have been several evangelical efforts at a more godly and wise dialogue. Groups like Utah's "Standing Together," the recent appearance (2005) of evangelical speaker Ravi Zacharias at the Mormon Tabernacle, and the joint efforts of LDS and evangelical professors to engage in public dialogues--I'd rather see the glass even 20% full than hopeless empty.