What happens when a member stops coming?

[bcguy]

Just curios to know. No one has visited me in 8 weeks except, last week..and that was because he was NOT told to visit me. He visited me, not for my welfare, or concern that why I have not been to church, but because he wanted to show off his rebuilt engine on his car. The second counsoler, asked me 6 times!! what my email and phone number was, and said he would visit me! well that never happened. Every time I goto the ward, most people don't talk to me or perhaps ignore, NOT once did thay ask "Were were you?"

G, I could be in the hospital with tubes in me and no one would once seek out where I have been. I am getting the idea, that members are to much into them selves and perhaps, very judgmental.

Our bishop who I have known since he was a member asked me and my wife to go in for financial counseling asked us to come in. Wife is putting it off. I don't want to go in and have people stare at me with no wife at my side. This happened many times. My wife is a life time member and i'm a convert.

Now, what does happen to a member who does not come in for a long time? Does there paperwork change?

[miztrniceguy]

no...they are just inactive.

[pam]

Do you talk to people when you go to church? Do you seek out members in the ward and ask how they are doing? Have you asked if there is a service to provide that you might be able to help with? Have you called your Bishop just to say.."Hey just checking in."

My experience is when people complain about things like this, they have made no effort themselves to do any of the same things they are complaining about. They in turn become the same judgmental people that they call everyone else.

It's easy to put the blame on others, when in fact there are things we ourselves can do.

[Bini]

Doesn't always seem fair or right but sometimes you gotta go out of your own way and comfort zone to be noticed. I don't really consider myself a super social person. My husband is and does fine approaching people and getting involved - even if he's the on initiating contact. Me on the other hand, I tend to feel like they should be making more of an effort, instead of perhaps me breaking out of my own shell.

Oh and Pam beat me to it! Great suggestion/advice. It's a good reminder to remember that people are people and regardless of your faith or anything else, sometimes we're not always on the same page as each other. Be patient and be open. Maybe start, if you haven't already, with the above pointers.

[Jennine]

Ditto on two of the comments. It's easy to get wrapped up in 'what about me' while expecting others to be thinking outside themselves. Rather than placing blame, you might also consider what members of your ward might be enduring as well. Are there people who are sick or suffering? Are there heavy burdens that they bear which you don't know about? Yes, I agree that as members of the LDS Church, we are responsible to look after one another, but we're equally responsible not to pass judgment on one another or expect a selfless attitude from others that we do not exhibit ourselves.

The fastest way to feel better is to seek ways to serve them, not wait for them to help you (particularly if they don't know you're in need of help.)

[BenRaines]

I haven't been to church for a month. Visited twice this month. Once by Deacons collecting fast offerings and once by member of Young Men's Presidency collecting Friends of Scouting donation. LOL

Ben Raines

[bytor2112]

I think sometimes church members do a horrible job of offering the hand of fellowship. How many times do new converts just stop coming and become inactive? It happens a lot.....even once is too often. Maybe it's because the Ward's operate by membership callings and all too often we are so focused on fulfilling our callings we forget to stop and reach out to those who need it most.

The ideal would be that your home teachers would have noticed that you were absent and would have called to check on you. That doesn't always happen....I am guilty of not calling on my home teaching families when they are out as well. The people of the church aren't perfect, but the structure is there and if followed faithfully no one should fall away because they don't feel loved or needed.

Maybe when you return you can take a roll in helping others to not feel this way.

Edited November 1, 2009 by bytor2112

[Moksha]

Bcguy, I think it depends on the tone the Bishop sets for the ward. My previous Bishop who is now in the Stake Presidency would say hi to the members (especially members like myself who are fringers when it comes to ward interaction) If a member was not seen for some time, he would would make sure someone visited. My current Bishop runs the ship differently and so the pleasantries are not exchanged and there are no "we've missed you" for the members. Is one model better than the other? Most folks here would say that Bishops are beyond second guessing, so I would assume, both are right.

My advice to any member who has asked similar questions over the years remains, to look to the Church for spiritual needs and not for fellowship. That way when fellowship is not given, no one will be disappointed. Best to develop your own social network for that type of need. Works for me.

When you are able to go to Church go. Otherwise, the missionaries will run into you sometime on a random visit.

[miztrniceguy]

Ben, should we be concerned?

[BenRaines]

After 45 years of regular attendance I was out of town one Sunday, went the next, Stake Conference the next and missed a Sunday.

No worries.

Ben Raines

[missyuk]

Bcguy,

My advice to any member who has asked similar questions over the years remains, to look to the Church for spiritual needs and not for fellowship. That way when fellowship is not given, no one will be disappointed.

No-one will be disappointed? Not even "Him Upstairs"?

I understand what you're saying, but surely that is just excusing poor behaviour. I could be wrong but I thought that the LDS Church focuses on the virtue of Charity, as a "Gospel Principle" (As I'd expect from any Christian religion)

Is fellowship not an integral part of LDS life? After all, why bother meeting together for worship, if you could gain just as much by pretty much staying at home and having your own private worship?

Surely spiritual needs and the need for fellowship are inextricably linked. I personally can't see how these could be separated, even if you wanted to....with the exception of being a solitary monk or something like that, perhaps!

[BenRaines]

Having moved several times in my adult life I have always found people to be friendly where I attend church. Of course I too am very friendly with other people so receive their kindness in return.

I go out of the way to introduce myself to people as I arrive at church. I arrive about 30 minutes before meeting begin, this allows me time to go around saying hi. If I were to arrive just as meetings begin there would be little time to visit.

Good luck,

Ben Raines

[cougarfan]

Wow no visits from members or hometeachers... never heard of that problem before. How come my ward won't leave me alone? ;-)

[Carl62]

Wow no visits from members or hometeachers... never heard of that problem before. How come my ward won't leave me alone? ;-)

I was inactive for over 15 years and never saw a home teacher or any member for that entire time! Nada! Nothing! And it's not like they couldn't find me. My name and address was in the church directory the entire time. I can go one even better. I've now been active for over the past year and I've STILL got yet to see or hear from just one home teacher. Sad but true.

[Generally_Me]

Our bishop who I have known since he was a member asked me and my wife to go in for financial counseling asked us to come in. Wife is putting it off. I don't want to go in and have people stare at me with no wife at my side. This happened many times. My wife is a life time member and i'm a convert.

I want to respond to this. You won't meet the bishop halfway when he requests a meeting with you, you won't attend without your wife, and you expect people to 'hunt you down' at home, not knowing if you even want them to visit you? I think your ward will understand that you and your wife are separate people, not joined at the hip. I've attended without my husband before, and he without me. The most we get asked is if the other is feeling all right.

Hey, have you visited any inactives lately? Offered a hand of fellowship to someone you haven't seen at church in a while?

[Lost_one]

Just curios to know. No one has visited me in 8 weeks except, last week..and that was because he was NOT told to visit me. He visited me, not for my welfare, or concern that why I have not been to church, but because he wanted to show off his rebuilt engine on his car. The second counsoler, asked me 6 times!! what my email and phone number was, and said he would visit me! well that never happened. Every time I goto the ward, most people don't talk to me or perhaps ignore, NOT once did thay ask "Were were you?"

G, I could be in the hospital with tubes in me and no one would once seek out where I have been. I am getting the idea, that members are to much into them selves and perhaps, very judgmental.

Our bishop who I have known since he was a member asked me and my wife to go in for financial counseling asked us to come in. Wife is putting it off. I don't want to go in and have people stare at me with no wife at my side. This happened many times. My wife is a life time member and i'm a convert.

Now, what does happen to a member who does not come in for a long time? Does there paperwork change?

I used to think this way.

Do you talk to people when you go to church? Do you seek out members in the ward and ask how they are doing? Have you asked if there is a service to provide that you might be able to help with? Have you called your Bishop just to say.."Hey just checking in."

My experience is when people complain about things like this, they have made no effort themselves to do any of the same things they are complaining about. They in turn become the same judgmental people that they call everyone else.

It's easy to put the blame on others, when in fact there are things we ourselves can do.

This is what I learned. I had to get out of my comfort zone. I started by doing service projects. That way I got to spend time with individual members and got to know them that way. It men't that when I wen't to church the following week, there was someone I knew. I slowly built up friendships and now can speak to quite a few people.

I have really bad shyness and suffer from mental health issues. These make it very difficult for me to be a member of the church, as the church is very social in nature. Only when I realised that I needed to change how I was with other members, I then saw them as normal people and not as perfect people that were not allowed to make mistakes.

I also feel that members have to get out of there comfort zones and fellowship with people outside there own clicks. It might also be worth talking to that person who will not be a bishop or stake high councilman someday soon. They may not be able to get you up the church ladder, But they might be just what your spirit needs to get there on your own.

Edited November 6, 2009 by Lost_one

[pam]

Lost_One you brought up a something that got me to thinking. A couple of others have also mentioned "comfort zones."

I think even those (myself included) who have been long standing members perhaps need to rethink our own "comfort zones." Yes it's great to have our circle of friends at church that we are comfortable with. But I think we also need to think outself that circle and invite others in as well. We need to take a look around us. Do we see someone who appears to always be sitting by themself? Do we see someone who doesn't participate in discussions? Do we see someone we have never said hello to?

I wonder if we don't sometimes think that person just doesn't want to be in involved when really they do. But they haven't learned to go outside their own comfort zone to accomplish that. Maybe just a little nudge from some of us would help that person along.

Years ago I had a Bishop that challenged all of us to find one person each week that we didn't know and say hello and introduce ourselves. It worked then. I have forgotten about that challenge. Time to put it in action again.

Edited November 2, 2009 by pam

[Misshalfway]

Do you talk to people when you go to church? Do you seek out members in the ward and ask how they are doing? Have you asked if there is a service to provide that you might be able to help with? Have you called your Bishop just to say.."Hey just checking in."

My experience is when people complain about things like this, they have made no effort themselves to do any of the same things they are complaining about. They in turn become the same judgmental people that they call everyone else.

It's easy to put the blame on others, when in fact there are things we ourselves can do.

I hear this sentiment all too often in the church. If someone feels lonely or is finding it hard to break into the ward's social structure, then its THEIR fault and THEY should do something about it. Heaven forbid I reach out to them. Heaven forbid I see an opportunity where I might reach out to strengthen a feeble knee or a hand that might be hanging down!

I honestly don't think BC is blaming anyone. I think the church promised it would be there when one was down and out and when he found himself in that posture, no one came like he hoped they would to remind him that he was valueable and missed.

We all have bad times where walking around the meeting house 30 min early just might not be possible. I resent the scorn that seems so subtle in comments like this.

(Not you personally, Pam. I see what you and others are saying. I just think it sidesteps the point.)

[Misshalfway]

Lost_One you brought up a something that got me to thinking. A couple of others have also mentioned "comfort zones."

I think even those (myself included) who have been long standing members perhaps need to rethink our own "comfort zones." Yes it's great to have our circle of friends at church that we are comfortable with. But I think we also need to think outself that circle and invite others in as well. We need to take a look around us. Do we see someone who appears to always be sitting by themself? Do we see someone who doesn't participate in discussions? Do we see someone we have never said hello to?

I wonder if we don't sometimes think that person just doesn't want to be in involved when really they do. But they haven't learned to go outside their own comfort zone to accomplish that. Maybe just a little nudge from some of us would help that person along.

Years ago I had a Bishop that challenged all of us to find one person each week that we didn't know and say hello and introduce ourselves. It worked then. I have forgotten about that challenge. Time to put it in action again.

Life is rough sometimes. It breaks us down and it sometimes knocks our feet out from under us. We all need to feel needed and wanted and noticed and like someone witnesses it when it happens and runs to see if we are ok.

I am with you BC. I have been the person that no one missed, that no one visited in the hospital that no one returned my overtures for friendship. I have had the VTers that could care less about the person sitting in front of them and witnessed the groups of believers that seem so friendly and so fun but who avoid talking to you when they see you at the market! And I am no wall flower. I have just learned that there are seasons of my life when my otherwise social skills were suspended because of woundedness or health problems or emotional traumas, and frankly the mormon community I loved so much and gave so much to over the years failed me.

Now.....I am all good. I understand my situation and that some seasons of life are lonely seasons and I am not judging or blaming as you might think. I am just saying I understand how it happens as I have reached out inspite of my troubles and still felt the cold mormon shoulder.

What I am trying to say is that I believe that the hearts of the children of men, inside this church we love, are growing colder. I believe our abilities of reaching out spontaneously, without needing to have the evaluation of that person's responsiblities and failings before I reach out with a hand or a smile, are diminishing. Children don't think like this! They make friends with anyone they meet and they play like they have been friends for years! We should take a lesson.

The church has some weak parts. I think this is thread is just another subtle reminder that Satan is working within to destroy the stuff that makes us real disciples of Christ.

Who cares that someone is struggling! Just tell them to buck up and go serve someone! Who cares that maybe just getting to church was enough of a struggle! or maybe just gettting up that day and getting the kids off to school! Many have seasons where gladhanding everyone in the ward isn't that easy. Just because its easy for me, I shouldn't assume anything. Rather I should see an opportunity to give and not hesitate to give it. If this really is the church of JC and this is the place where the church of the first born reside, this kind of loving care should be as natural as breathing in and out. Sadly, I think parts of us are more like the church in the BofM .....still trying to learn the basics of how to love.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Misshalfway

[Soul_Searcher]

I was goin to say service too. You really get to know members and whats going on in the ward-the heart and hub of the ward is in service.

[Mirium]

I've found the best way to meet people and interact is through my callings. I'm not much of a social person but through a variety of callings over the years I've got to mix and get to know people.

At times when we struggle we assume people are aware of the problem. Is there anyone in your ward to feel comfortable enough with to tell them how your feeling or a chat with the Bishop might help. If you are struggling with being able to attend church he should be able to help.

I'm not excusing your home teachers. They should have contacted you but maybe they are having problems of their own or maybe they just are not motivated, we cannot all be perfect at everything. I always find its best not to rely on us imperfect human beings but to trust in Heavenly Father.

[Misshalfway]

Relying on imperfect humans is always an imperfect proposition. But for some reason God tells us to bare one anothers burdens. All of this stuff, understanding and doing......its such a balancing act.

[LDSVALLEY]

Ward Clerk is responsible to train auxliary secretaries in keeping attendance and reporting attendance concerns to him when they come up. One of his roles is to investigate these concerns and bring them up in PEC or Bishopric meetings. Secretaries should investigate first to see if it is just a sickness, or work etc. The purpose of this is when leaders learn of someone not showing up they can make contact with having some back ground info. Often people will stop going to classes before they stop going to sacrament. having a time line can help figure out what is up.

Leaders can get bogged down with squeaky wheel issues and the quite ones get overlooked. Also leaders and members can be so concerned about offending someone that they don't ask the questions that show they care. What's up, why are you not coming, etc. Remember that leaders have no special training and most simply do the best they can.

Two years ago our Ward retention level was 25% because everyone focused on other issues. Now it is 80% and many less actives have come back to activity because we switched focus, took months to slowly train members to watch out for each other, to help teach leaders how to look out for those who don't come. Mostly that it was a shared responsibility not something put on any one auxiliary.

[Misshalfway]

Two years ago our Ward retention level was 25% because everyone focused on other issues. Now it is 80% and many less actives have come back to activity because we switched focus, took months to slowly train members to watch out for each other, to help teach leaders how to look out for those who don't come. Mostly that it was a shared responsibility not something put on any one auxiliary.

How exactly did you change focus? Was it the bishop talking directly to the people? Was it a program? And it only took two months to go from 25% to 80%? I knew delivering brownies was powerful....but wow! LOL Seriously, I really want to understand what happened here.

[Wingnut]

Two years ago our Ward retention level was 25% because everyone focused on other issues. Now it is 80% and many less actives have come back to activity because we switched focus, took months to slowly train members to watch out for each other, to help teach leaders how to look out for those who don't come. Mostly that it was a shared responsibility not something put on any one auxiliary.

How exactly did you change focus? Was it the bishop talking directly to the people? Was it a program? And it only took two months to go from 25% to 80%? I knew delivering brownies was powerful....but wow! LOL Seriously, I really want to understand what happened here.

It was two years, not months. :) Those really would be some brownies, though!

Everyone who comments that their home and visiting teachers haven't visited -- it's possible that there aren' home or visiting teachers assigned. I know that even some inactives who are not designated Do Not Contact still don't get assigned home and visiting teachers. It's sad, but true. To have been coming to church for a year and still not have had a visit is extremely disappointing, though. That's a crucial time at which to involve home and visiting teachers.