The 2nd coming of christ

[TruthSeeker]

This subject is always on my mind. I think that we are in the beginning of the end. I subsribe to the thought that it probably will not happen tomorrow, but I will be pretty surprised if 20 years has passed and we have not yet experienced it. A man in my last ward told me that when a general authority was staying at his house, the general authority explained that the church was starting develop land in Jackson County and send people on missions to just "occupy" the land. In other words, it sounds like some people are being gathered. However, this is just second hand info. He also told me about an interesting, recent discovery in the middle east, where a cavern was discovered and the name "Nephi" was anciently written on the wall of this cavern. Again, second hand info. So, I think that some of these things are happening for a reason, if they are indeed true. We know that Christ will come as a thef in the night, though, so I am willing to put everything I have on the fact that he doesn't come the day the mayan calander ends...it would be too expected.

[MobyMule]

Personally I don't concern myself with it. I know it is coming and that I should be trying to live as best I can. I actually will be glad when it gets here. I think things will be so much better once it happens and we can move forward with the millenium.

[Snow]

When do you guess this will happen?

The day the lord will make his return to earth is something that always ponders dearly upon my mind. Although nobody specifically knows when, we know these are the last days,

2000 years ago the Jesus movement thought the same thing.

170 years ago The LDS Church thought the same thing.

Don't hold your breath.

[bytor2112]

FRom Jeffrey Holland:

I want to speak to you in the context of ongoing anxiety in the world and some of the challenges we face. Since September 11, 2001, we have been made more fearful and have been more alarmed by international events and the almost wholesale new use of the word terror. I know that many of you have wondered in your hearts what all of this means regarding the end of the world and your life in it. Many have asked, “Is this the hour of the Second Coming of the Savior and all that is prophesied surrounding that event?”

Indeed, sometime not long after 9/11, a missionary asked me in all honesty and full of faith, “Elder Holland, are these the last days?” I saw the earnestness in his face and some of the fear in his eyes. I said, “Yes, Elder, we are in the last days, but there is really nothing new about that. The promised Second Coming of the Savior began with the First Vision of the Prophet Joseph Smith in 1820. We can be certain that we are in the last days—years and years of them.” I gave him a friendly shake of the hand and sent him on his way. He smiled, seemed more reassured to put all this in some context, and held his head a little higher as he left me.

I hasten to say that I do know what this young man was really asking. What he really meant was “Will I finish my mission? Is there any point in getting an education? Can I hope for a marriage? Do I have a future? Is there any happiness ahead for me?” And I say to you what I said to him, “Yes, certainly—to all those questions.”

As far as the timing of the triumphant, publicly witnessed Second Coming and its earthshaking events, I do not know when that will happen. No one knows. The Savior said that even the angels in heaven would not know (see Matthew 24:36).

We should watch for the signs, we should live as faithfully as we possibly can, and we should share the gospel with everyone so that blessings and protections will be available to all. But we must not be paralyzed just because that event and the events surrounding it are ahead of us somewhere. We cannot stop living life. Indeed, we should live life more fully than we have ever lived it. After all, this is the dispensation of the fulness of times. - Jeffrey Holland

[prisonchaplain]

Somewhere in outer space

God has prepared a place

For those who trust him and obey

Jesus will come again

Although we don't know when

The countdown's getting lower every day

Ten and nine

Eight and seven

Six and five and four

Call upon the Savior while you may

Three and two

Coming through

The clouds a bright array

The countdown's getting lower every day!

AND IF I GO AND PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU I WILL COME AGAIN AND RECEIVE YOU UNTO MYSELF, THAT WHERE I AM YOU MAY BE ALSO. JOHN FOURTEEN THREE.

All I ever needed to learn about the second coming I learned in Sunday school. :-)

[Justice]

I thought of something interesting on my drive to work this morning.

2030 will mark 200 years from the organization of the Church, and 2,000 years from the time Christ started His ministry.

April 6th, 2030 could be an interesting day, even if it's not "the" day.

[Moksha]

The imagery in W.B. Yeats' poem The Second Coming, seems hauntingly beautiful:

Turning and turning in the widening gyre

The falcon cannot hear the falconer;

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;

Surely the Second Coming is at hand.

The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out

When a vast image out of Spritus Mundi

Troubles my sight: somewhere in the sands of the desert.

A shape with lion body and the head of a man,

A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,

Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it

Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.

The darkness drops again; but now I know

That twenty centuries of stony sleep

were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,

Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

###

Has the blood-dimmed tide been loosed and and the ceremony of innocence drowned? Stay tuned to the Current Events forum for the latest in passionate intensity.

However, the vast image of Spiritus Mundi makes glad my spiritual yearnings.

[Guest xforeverxmetalx]

I did a paper on that poem for English class awhile back actually.

[JudoMinja]

"Supposing today were your last day on earth

The last mile of the journey you've trod.

After all that you've done, how much are you worth?

How much can you take home to God?

Don't count as possessions your silver and gold,

Tomorrow you leave those behind,

And all that is yours to have and to hold,

Is the service you've given mankind."

--Anonymous

I had an idea strike me. Suppose our interpretation of the Mayan (Enoch) calander is off. It is said to end December 25, 2012... but maybe it is thought this is so, because this is Christmas day, the day believed by many to be Christ's birthday.

But we have received revelation that Christ was born April 6... So maybe, the Mayan calander really ends April 6, 2012.

[Vort]

Eschatology is a waste of time.

I will stand before Christ within the next 50 or 60 years, max. This is true whether he comes again to earth or not.

[Vort]

VORT'S SIGNS OF THE IMMINENT ARRIVAL OF THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD

• I've gotten fat.
• My reflexes are slowing down.
• My kids are starting to get as tall as me.
• I'm going gray.
• My joints often ache.
• I can't remember the other ones. (This is one of the signs, too).

[Vort]

But we have received revelation that Christ was born April 6...

I do not believe we have received any such revelation.

[prisonchaplain]

Vort...you're funny...and that's how I take your last two posts. But we really do need to keep our sense of urgency. The imminent return of Christ is a paramount mindset. If Jesus tarries 50 years, that's a mercy. However, I must be ready now and always.

[Vort]

Vort...you're funny...and that's how I take your last two posts. But we really do need to keep our sense of urgency. The imminent return of Christ is a paramount mindset. If Jesus tarries 50 years, that's a mercy. However, I must be ready now and always.

My point is that it's rather silly that we would even need the idea of Christ's return to motivate us. We're mortal, after all. We're all going to die pretty soon. We'll be standing before the Lord in very little time, so worrying about the timing of his coming seems misplaced (to say the least).

[Justice]

That's true, Vort.

I do think that PC has a point, however. Time is a very useful thing if used properly. The time of our death seems distant when we're younger, in spite of the signs of aging. As I think about it, the older a person gets, typically they grow more wise and kind. Time has a way of helping us overcome problems nothing else can. The thought that we might have less time than we think we might seems to be a good motivator for a great many people, even if in reality we could die any moment.

But, yes, the time of our visitation shouldn't make any difference for us, because the thought that we are mortal and it's going to happen anyway should be clear and present. But, it's a pretty common thing for a man to need "a tree to fall on him" to make him respond to the obvious.

[RanMan]

VORT'S SIGNS OF THE IMMINENT ARRIVAL OF THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD

• I've gotten fat.
• My reflexes are slowing down.
• My kids are starting to get as tall as me.
• I'm going gray.
• My joints often ache.
• I can't remember the other ones. (This is one of the signs, too).

Is that the arrival of the Lord here, or your arrival where the Lord is at?

:)

[prisonchaplain]

My point is that it's rather silly that we would even need the idea of Christ's return to motivate us. We're mortal, after all. We're all going to die pretty soon. We'll be standing before the Lord in very little time, so worrying about the timing of his coming seems misplaced (to say the least).

Except, er...:::COUGH:::...scripture actually has a good deal to say about the matter.

[Vort]

Except, er...:::COUGH:::...scripture actually has a good deal to say about the matter.

Actually, my observation is that scripture has rather little to say on the matter, besides the fact that Christ will come again and there will be signs of his coming, so we should prepare. Other than that, the scriptures do not dwell on which signs we should look out for and how we should go about starting a betting pool on when the blessed event shall occur.

[prisonchaplain]

Actually, my observation is that scripture has rather little to say on the matter, besides the fact that Christ will come again and there will be signs of his coming, so we should prepare. Other than that, ...

OTHER THAN THAT??? That is hugely important.

1. Jesus will come again! We don't know when, but soon. The disciples anticipated his return? Were they wrong. Is not your church a restorationist one--trying to get us back to New Testament Christianity? This isn't some, "Oh well...today or 50 years...I got it covered. No biggie." The Creator's coming back, expecting us to be ready. We'd best be!

2. There will be signs. Yes, Matthew 24, much of Revelation, etc. It's biblical and spiritually healthy to be aware of the times. Ready, expecting, and hungry to win souls to reconciliation with Heavenly Father.

3. We should be prepared. Repenting of our sins, about the Father's work, prioritizing our lives so that the Kingdom of God is first, growing in knowledge of God and his Word--why stress if he ain't coming soon, and I can figure I only got 50 years or so max anyway, so "other than that?"

the scriptures do not dwell on which signs we should look out for and how we should go about starting a betting pool on when the blessed event shall occur.

Actually one passage does say, "When these signs appear, behold, your redemption draweth nigh." Eschatology is sometimes called "The blessed hope." If our attitude about life is "All this and heaven too," then Lord help us.

Vort, I do not accuse you of being unprepared, or even of lacking urgency. But the counsel that eschatology is unimportant, imho, is terribly wrong.

[Vort]

OTHER THAN THAT??? That is hugely important...Vort, I do not accuse you of being unprepared, or even of lacking urgency. But the counsel that eschatology is unimportant, imho, is terribly wrong.

Not sure what to say, PC. I have known people who have devoted their lives (at least their free time) to tracking all the signs of the times and drawing up charts to predict the day and hour of the Savior's return. I do not believe, not for the smallest moment, that the Lord wishes us to do any such thing.

I personally suspect that the call to watch for signs of the times was directed toward those who led (and lead) his Church. It is they who lead the preparation for the Lord's return. For most others, eschatology seems to turn into an especially obsessive and unhealthy gospel hobby (to use Joseph F. Smith's terminology).

We are in the last days. This we (LDS) know by revelation. But the day and the hour, no man knoweth. When I was a teenager, I firmly believed that the Lord would come again by the year 2000. How could he not? Such a remote time -- I'd be 37 by then! -- was so far in the future and so numerically significant that it was just obvious to me.

Obviously, I was wrong. I now see no reason to believe that Christ will come again during my lifetime, though praise be to God if he does. I would love to live at that time and see what happens next, with the establishment of the personal reign of Jesus Christ. But it really makes no difference, does it? I will grow old (if I'm lucky) and die (in any case), and then I'll stand before the Lord and account for my doings. Perhaps the Lord will let me have a part in his kingdom, either in the flesh or afterward. God grant that I come forth with him at his coming.

But in any and every case, dwelling on the eschatological nuances of scriptural phrase and speculating about how many more years/decades/centuries must pass before the prophecies are fulfilled is pointless. I need to love and protect my wife, love and discipline my children, love and serve my fellow man, and get my home teaching done.

[deseretgov]

I thought of something interesting on my drive to work this morning.

2030 will mark 200 years from the organization of the Church, and 2,000 years from the time Christ started His ministry.

April 6th, 2030 could be an interesting day, even if it's not "the" day.

I already said that:

Well I used the think it would be April 6, 2030. 2000 years since the beginning of Christ's ministry and 200 years since the founding of the Church. But then I found out the Christ was probably not born in the year 1. He was more likely born in the year 4BC. So I'm currently revising my theory.

[Justice]

LOL

I guess I'm just slower than you are. It didn't sink in until I pondered it in the car.

[prisonchaplain]

Not sure what to say, PC. I have known people who have devoted their lives (at least their free time) to tracking all the signs of the times and drawing up charts to predict the day and hour of the Savior's return. I do not believe, not for the smallest moment, that the Lord wishes us to do any such thing.

But that begs the question. If you're arguing against date-setting, and against an over-emphasis on when Jesus will come (to the day and hour), or on whether certainly colorful passages in the Book of Revelation might picture Black Hawk helicopters, then yes, I'll agree with you--big waste of time. However, you said eschatology itself is a waste of time. IMHO, you are wrong--perhaps because you've seen people study it in an intense but fruitless manner.

I personally suspect that the call to watch for signs of the times was directed toward those who led (and lead) his Church. It is they who lead the preparation for the Lord's return. For most others, eschatology seems to turn into an especially obsessive and unhealthy gospel hobby (to use Joseph F. Smith's terminology).

Eschatology, properly studied and taught, keeps us all mindful that we are but travelers here. This is not home. We're just passing through, trying to encourage others to join us on our journey to Glory Land.

We are in the last days. This we (LDS) know by revelation. But the day and the hour, no man knoweth. When I was a teenager, I firmly believed that the Lord would come again by the year 2000. How could he not? Such a remote time -- I'd be 37 by then! -- was so far in the future and so numerically significant that it was just obvious to me.

Obviously, I was wrong. I now see no reason to believe that Christ will come again during my lifetime, though praise be to God if he does. I would love to live at that time and see what happens next, with the establishment of the personal reign of Jesus Christ. But it really makes no difference, does it? I will grow old (if I'm lucky) and die (in any case), and then I'll stand before the Lord and account for my doings. Perhaps the Lord will let me have a part in his kingdom, either in the flesh or afterward. God grant that I come forth with him at his coming.

You and I are roughly the same generation, and we both grew up during a time when broad Christianity was on an eschatology kick. I recall some TV ministers with their Bible in one hand and the newspaper in the other, trying to draw connections. But for all the abuse, Jesus calls his church, not just its shepherds, to be mindful that the trump could sound at any moment, and we best not be caught with our lamps short on oil.

[Vort]

But that begs the question.

You may be right. I do not have a strong defense of my position. My best defense is this: God did not command us to engage in "eschatology". Rather, he said to watch for the signs. These are not synonymous, at least not in my mind.

But my thoughts on this are rooted in my perceptions. As you note, I have not seen any good come from "eschatological studies", just wasted time. If you disagree, I won't spend much effort to try to convince you I'm right. But if at the judgment bar God says to me, "Vort, why didn't you spend more time studying eschatology?!", then I will humbly admit that PC was right, after all.

:)

[HiJolly]

You may be right. I do not have a strong defense of my position. My best defense is this: God did not command us to engage in "eschatology". Rather, he said to watch for the signs. These are not synonymous, at least not in my mind.

But my thoughts on this are rooted in my perceptions. As you note, I have not seen any good come from "eschatological studies", just wasted time. If you disagree, I won't spend much effort to try to convince you I'm right. But if at the judgment bar God says to me, "Vort, why didn't you spend more time studying eschatology?!", then I will humbly admit that PC was right, after all.

:)

A bit late at that point, Vort...

I think it is clearly shown in the scriptures (and I include the D&C in that) that the true, faithful disciples of Christ ALWAYS watch anxiously for His return. The sense of immediacy surrounding this is not meant to decieve or to create crack-pots out of us, but rather to support our immediate preparations for his coming.

This is not unreasonable, in that Saul/Paul received His coming, as have others such as St. John of the Cross, Joseph Smith, and others.

I personally have decided to not become consumed in worrying about the 'BIG' coming, and emphasize in my life preparation for His coming to me, individually.

HiJolly